#1
I'm glad you've decided to take a look at my new idea, thanks in advance!

Up until recently, I'd always looked at extended chords as, quite literally, chords that had been extended. I thought of CM7 as C major with a B thrown in there. I thought of Em9 as E minor with an added D and F#. However, I took the time to write out some stuff while at school today, and I discovered something fairly interesting.

If I were to take the key and tonic chord of E minor, for example, I'd have:

E G B

Correct? Now, our first extension (excluding sus2, sus4, 6 and other chords that add tones within the chord's range) would be the 7. We look at Em7, and see that it is E G B D. Spot on. It's Em7. But let me offer you a second way of looking at Em7:

E G B
G B D

What's this? It's an E minor with a G major being played over-top. That's interesting. What about ninth chords?

E G B D F#

Right? How about:

E G B - E minor
G B D - G major
B D F# - B minor

(You should notice the pattern between the roots of chords now, I've gotten E G and B chords from an original E minor, E G B).

More proof? 11th chords and 13th chords to the rescue!

11th:
E G B - E minor
G B D - G major
B D F# - B minor
D F# A - D major

13th:
E G B - E minor
G B D - G major
B D F# - B minor
D F# A - D major
F# A C - F# diminished

What does this mean? Well, in one perspective, it means that if you play a lick in B minor over an E minor chord, you're likely creating Em9. Which opens possibilities for licking some G major, or throwing some D major to add to the chaos and create an 11th chord.

I'd also like to mention that the quantity of quality of the chords within the "extended" chords seems to affect the overall sound. E minor is just one minor chord and has a very thoughtful sad feel to it. Em7 has a more neutral sound, combining both major and minor. Em9 again has a more tranquil sound, possibly due to the inclusion of two minors versus one major?

Also, this knowledge might lead us to change the notes we leave out of certain extended chords. If we have an Em9, and we want a more depressing flavour, we might drop the B, as that takes the third from G major, and reduce overall dissonance, giving us E G D F#. Voiced as such:

e|-0-|e
B|-7-|f#
G|-7-|d
D|-5-|g
A|-5-|d
E|-0-|e

It's very pleasing.

What do you think? What ideas does this provoke?

It's just something I came up with.
~ Caleb Boese
#2
I was thinking about this earlier, only with C major. Because if you continue the pattern of diads up "C E G" it becomes "C E G B D F" which is a major 13.
Another thing I noticed is that you could continue all the way to "C E G B D F A" which is basically a C major scale in chord form. I wonder how it would sound if you voiced it nicely so that nothing clashed.
#3
These are reffered to as upper structure triads.

One thing, you voiced the last upper extension of E- as F# - A - C

This would not make E-13 but E-11b13.

If your calling it a E-11b13 its acting as a vi chord in Gmaj.

However, if your meaning to call it a E-13 chord, it should have a C#, and will now be the ii chord in D Major.

A 13th is a completle scale. Depending on which chord tone you base it from will give different scales

C13 - Cmaj
D-13 D Dorian
E-7b9b13 - E Phrygian

ect.

A 11th or 13th chord could be seen as a Polychord, as you have effectivley demonstrated.

C11 - C E G B D F

Could instead of being seen as C11, could be seen as combining, Cmaj, and B Dim, triads.

The only ideas this particularly stimulates are on a Cmaj7 chord, subbing for A-7 ect. But this is just chord family substitutes.

Your concept is really what It relies on.

Tonic Family subs: (Cmaj7 E-7) (Cmaj7 A-7)

E-7 is the upper structure chord of Cmaj9, Cmaj7 is the upper structure chord of A-9.

Same with the Sub-Dominant family (D-7, Fmaj7)

Fmaj7 can be seen as the upper structure chord of D-9

And with the Dominant family: G7, B-7b5. B-7b5 can be seen as the upper strucutre chord of G9.

The only other thing, would be to have a new view on omissions of chords. For instance, in E-9 I may now not commonly omitt the B, but omitt the D instead, thinking of it as the fifth of the upper structure chord, making the new chord Emadd9.

Anyway, nice discussion
#4
In simple turns, it's a great way to link different keys together, and work with different scales and modes.

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#5
Cool. It's always so much better when you make these realizations on your own. It just makes it stick that much more and your understanding is far more complete than how anyone can actually explain it to you.

It's what they call tertian harmony I think. In the end it's all built on stacking thirds.
For example in the key of C major
[B]C[/B] D [B]E[/B] F [B]G[/B] A [B]B[/B] C [B]D[/B] E  [B]F[/B]  G  [B]A[/B]  B  [B]C[/B]
[B]1[/B] 2 [B]3[/B] 4 [B]5[/B] 6 [B]7[/B] 8 [B]9[/B] 10 [B]11[/B] 12 [B]13[/B] 14 15


The only thing to remember though (as Galvanise69 pointed out) is that it's only diatonic up to the seventh. All higher extensions (9 11 13) are always major in quality unless otherwise stated.
Si
#6
It's definatley better when you make these discoveries by yourself. As 20Tigers said, the major 7, minor 7, diminished 7, Augmented, Half-Diminished tonal tags, only apply to the notes inside your 7th chord. Any note's outside of your 7th chord , 9ths 11ths and 13ths are not affected by the tonal tag, but are how they are in the major scale.

As 20Tigers also stated its the tertian way of building chords, in thirds. Of course there are other ways of building chords that just tertian, but thats a little off topic.
#7
I didn't notice that after the 7th all tones are derived from the major scale ! This is neat.

I'm a theory nut, and it's nice to know that this exists and that I can read up on it.
So, since C is sharp in the major of E, I'd include a C#? That's interesting.

Thanks for the feedback ^^,
It's both a blessing and a curse to find out that I'm not the first with the idea :P But hey! If I were born a couple thousand years earlier I'd be a pioneer :P

Thanks again.
#8
Actually, it's unconciously used more then u might think, and maybe even in ur own playing. But most people just see it as a neat variation or creative idea. But yet again it can be explained in theory

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
(most intelligent)
The "Good Samaritan" Award 2009 (most helpful)

[font="Palatino Linotype
Who's Andy Timmons??
#9
Quote by thekingofhearts
I didn't notice that after the 7th all tones are derived from the major scale ! This is neat.

I'm a theory nut, and it's nice to know that this exists and that I can read up on it.
So, since C is sharp in the major of E, I'd include a C#? That's interesting.

Thanks for the feedback ^^,
It's both a blessing and a curse to find out that I'm not the first with the idea :P But hey! If I were born a couple thousand years earlier I'd be a pioneer :P

Thanks again.
You would. I love epiphanies.
Your insight is unique since it is yours. It will serve you far better than anyone elses.
Si
#10
Wait, let me get this straight.

You're building harmony using tetrachords, moving up a chord interval each time to derive a scale, right? And then you're using the knowledge of those notes moving up the tetrachords to expand the possibilities for playing in a certain key?

So, basically, you're giving harmonic context for using other keys as a basis for melodies while keeping the harmony attached to E in this case. For instance, playing D major in a measure of Em9add11 would be perfectly acceptable, as Em9add11 is the notes

E, G, B, F#, A

And D major is

D, E, F#, G, A, B, C#

So you'd sound just as legitimate playing in D major as in E minor, and you'd get to introduce notes like C#. Am I right, or right off track?
Quote by marmoseti
Mastering your instrument is being able to play whatever you hear in your head, unhindered by inadequate technique. After that, it's all about what you've got to say, so there would be no "best," just a bunch of people saying exactly what they mean.
#11
This is one of the reasons I think learning to play diatonic triads everywhere and
anywhere cold, after simply learning the notes of the scale, is one of the most
important things you can do for your playing.

Playing sequences of triads adds immediate harmonic interest to your melody.

I think some people are under the limited thinking that you can only play an arepeggio
over the same chord. But, that's actually pretty "square". For starters, you can play
any of the arpeggios of the key over any of the chords in key and you'll automatically be
suggesting extended chord content in your playing.

There's a good example of this in the last ScaleOme study:

http://artists.ultimate-guitar.com/scaleome_proj/

The last few minutes is almost all improvisation of G diatonic triads over an
Am7-D7-Gmaj7 progression and I seldom just use Am, D, G triads over the chords.
I'm pretty much using G, Am, Bm, C, D, Em, F#dim all over the progression.