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#1
And only US citizens only, this is not your debate non U.S. Citizens.
Please read this thoroughly.


Currently tonight in downtown San Francisco, opposers of proposition 8 attempted to violently chase a Christian group out of downtown. Police showed up to protect the Christian group from the "gay" mob. The Christian group was only trying to get people to join their religion, which they have a constitutional right to do, and they have a constitutional right to peacefully meet in a public area despite another's emotions or opinion, whether another is offended or not.
However, the opposers of prop. 8 were interviewed by the news and many said that their actions were due to "hatered" of the "gay" group, and many supporters claim they have a constitutional right for gay marriage, but there is no ammendment in the U.S. Constitution that guarrantees that. Yet many members compare the passing of Prop 8 to racial segregation. They are demanding CA district court intervention in order to protect them from segregation. However I would disagree.
Gays claim that being Homosexual is equal to being a race, and it is a discernable hoax. Being gay is not the same as being born a White, Black, or Asian (etc.) as an ethnicity. Homosexuality is not a trait acquired at birth, it is a learned or chosen trait by a person, it is genetically impossible for someone to homosexual due to the fact that all living creature are born to reproduce. All Mamals however reproduce through sexual behavior, in which is between a Male and a Female, in which the Male fertalizes the female in which to create offspring. It is impossible for two males to produce offspring and it is impossible for two females to produce offspring. Hence Marriage, as it was reinforced by the approval of the Seas with the passing of proposition 8, is between a Man and a Women due to the fact that they are the only ones who could reproduce, religious beliefs, the resentment to the previous ballot initiative ban overthrown by the 9th circuit though it had been already passed through constitutional check, and the truth that homosexuallity is a practice that could threaten the survival of certain alleles and the human species. Not only that, the prop 8 oppositon is behaving on impulse, and exhibiting irrationality and is exhibiting hypocracy.
Gays often claim that they are being hated and they need to have legal action to force people to stop offending them. Meanwhile they exhibit hate towards religious groups and conservitive groups for opposing them. They often want them silenced so that the gays, who claim always stake claims of the first ammendment to defend their cause, though marriage is not mentioned anywhere in constition or anything pertaining to behaviors, and want to deny groups their first ammendment rights. Their is a term for this, it is called Fascim, National Socialism (NAZI), and is featured in Communist and Totalitarian Governments, in which rights belong to the few who control the many and those who support the few in control. These also consist of several different policies pushed by Nancy Piloski, speaker of the house, is in favor of passing bills such as the fairness doctorine. However, these bills are unconstitutional due to the fact that they force media to express opinions they do not want to express and they terminate medias who express their first ammendment rights to chose what they want to say. This brings me to my Egriss.
The term "Gay" can be considered a Pseudonym for modern fascism due to their practices, their hate of those who oppose them and their attempt to silence them, the opposition to things passed by majority vote such as Prop 8 that they oppose, and the behaviors they exhibit towards those who oppose them. I conclude, that the passing of proposition 8 is a advancement is the direction in the control and elimination of fascism, the survival of the U.S. and its democracy. If the 9th circuit court overthrows Proposition 8, I hope the real supreme court intervenes and tries them for treason for attempting to ignore the rights of the majority, their vote and their freedom of choice; may they hang from the rope they set up to suffocate our freedoms and our voice.
#2
tl;dr


its bad tho i thought San Francisco was the home of the gays. Or was that brave?


Edit:- I can debate it if i like thanks!!
#4
tl;dr

I mean, I know what it's about, and I know where I stand on the issue. What good is a post on a message board going to do? It's not going to change anything, and I'm pretty sure we're all aware on what a grave injustice it really is.

California has got to be the gay porn capital of the world to begin with.
You're*
#5
The proposition has already been passed, there's no point in arguing about it. TS this article is not going to change anybody's opinion. (and btw they did a scientific study recently that said that being gay is actually linked to genetics).
#6
tl;dr

I live in California and voted no on 8. I personally believe it was wrong and unfair and shouldn't have passed. But people have to realize that all the protesting isn't going to do a thing, since it already passed.
#7
Quote by samick007
The proposition has already been passed, there's no point in arguing about it. TS this article is not going to change anybody's opinion. (and btw they did a scientific study recently that said that being gay is actually linked to genetics).


I know it has already been passed. I stated it is the post.
And what study, bring me results from unpaid unbiased scientists.
#8
Quote by samick007
The proposition has already been passed, there's no point in arguing about it. TS this article is not going to change anybody's opinion. (and btw they did a scientific study recently that said that being gay is actually linked to genetics).


It's still under debate. There are lawsuits filed to overturn it.
If it was already ruled unconstitutional, why would that change in 3 short months?

And where is this from?
I'd like the source please.
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#10
To quote Jack Nicholson...
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#11
Quote by Sir Anonymous
I'm not American but I am curious; did you type that up yourself or is it copy/pasted from somewhere?



I typed it myself, this is my original post, however, the part about the christians be attacked by the mob was a small part of a story from a television news media in which i felt i could use to support my thread.
#12
skimmed it. homosexual is something your born with; it counts as a race. descriminating against people who are different than you is wrong. i voted no on 8.
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I have no opinion on this matter.
#13
Quote by Guitargod12345
"hatered"


I lol'd.

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#14
Quote by x_thurston_x
It's still under debate. There are lawsuits filed to overturn it.
If it was already ruled unconstitutional, why would that change in 3 short months?

And where is this from?
I'd like the source please.


I took the story about the mob of prop 6 supporters attacking a christian group from a television news media, most of the other stuff is based upon my thoughts and of my knowledge in biology as well as some of my philosophies and studies.
#15
Prop 8 didn't pass by that great of a margin. Sure, what the protesters did to the Christians wasn't right. But honestly, why would anyone chose to live a lifestyle where they would be socially ostracized, have unequal rights, and not be able to have children with the one they truly love? The answer: they wouldn't. Gay people do not choose to be gay. I think most people will agree that prop 8 passed because of people's religious views and the influence churches have on the public. But the law shouldn't be about anybody's religious views. The fact of the matter is that it's wrong to discriminate under the law, even if gay people DID choose to be gay. You can't say that they don't feel the same love a man and a woman feel. It doesn't matter what the bible says on marriage. America is supposed to be a place people can come and get equal opportunities for all.

So because the people of California went with the church on this one, instead of the simple idea that all people should have equal rights, you're damn right that people are going to fight it. And I personally hope they win. I think it says a lot about how far we still have to come, even though we've finally elected a black president. And it's devastating. I am, by no means, saying what the gay people are doing is right. They are frustrated that the law is not working on their side. For instance, they're angry that people on death row who have committed terrible crimes, can get married, and the gay citizens who are law-abiding cannot.

One last thought--maybe the people's voices shouldn't be taken into consideration when it interferes into the rights of others.
#16
Quote by Guitargod12345
I know it has already been passed. I stated it is the post.
And what study, bring me results from unpaid unbiased scientists.


What unpaid unbiased study do you have that proves otherwise?
Why would so many people "choose" this "lifestyle"?

Just look at ex-gay camps. The success rate is VERY low, and if they don't eventually continue their life as gay, they commit suicide from utter depression. Why? Because they are genetically gay. It's just in them to be attracted to the same sex.
Quote by Guitar0player
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#17
Quote by Zugunruhe
skimmed it. homosexual is something your born with; it counts as a race. descriminating against people who are different than you is wrong. i voted no on 8.


How can a living organism be born with a genetic disposition to not seek reproduction, and prove it to me with legitimate scientific knowledge.
#18
Yeah, that's bullshit. If they're going to be intolerant, then **** their right to marriage.
#19
san fran has a lot of balls (with that many queer thailors, i'd hope so anyway). they, as a city, officially condemned the catholic church this past summer.
#DTWD
#20
Quote by x_thurston_x
It's still under debate. There are lawsuits filed to overturn it.
If it was already ruled unconstitutional, why would that change in 3 short months?

And where is this from?
I'd like the source please.

It's just a theory (heard by word of mouth that it had been proved but I guess not). If you care enough about it (since I don't) you can find enough evidence for yourself.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=genetic+homosexuality+study&btnG=Search
#21
Quote by Guitargod12345
How can a living organism be born with a genetic disposition to not seek reproduction, and prove it to me with legitimate scientific knowledge.
people are born with all sorts of genetic dispositions. if this were nature, the "gay" gene might get removed by natural selection, but there are plenty of closet gays in sham marriages to pass on the gene. you cant call evolution to justify your prejudice.

besides, even if it is a choice, that is no reason to discriminate against a group of people. do you discriminate agains jews because they choose to be jewish?

also, these people are doing nothing wrong. they just want to get married. whats the big deal?
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I have no opinion on this matter.
#22
Quote by Guitargod12345
This brings me to my Egriss.

The term "Gay" can be considered a Pseudonym for modern fascism due to their practices,
You just defined an entire group of people by the behaviour of a tiny subset of militants.

sorry dude, that isn't gonna fly.


*reported*
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#23
I have to laugh at how dumb this is, basically they are mad because the US won't let them have some little piece of paper that says they are in love? maybe it means more, but really isn't it just some piece of paper letting the US know that you are in love? and that everything you own is both of yours? I find that to be the dumbest thing on earth, /cry because they can't get a paper.
D;
#24
I think they should be allowed to get married by a judge or however they do that, but not in a church. Any church that marries gays is ****ed up.
#25
Quote by Guitargod12345
How can a living organism be born with a genetic disposition to not seek reproduction, and prove it to me with legitimate scientific knowledge.

Very easily...?

There are alot of genetic mutations... And not everyone seeks reproduction, choose your words carefully, that's saying everyone wants children.

They might seek ... but there are people who don't even seek that. And who is to say gays don't seek that.
#26
Quote by ughhhhhhhh
I have to laugh at how dumb this is, basically they are mad because the US won't let them have some little piece of paper that says they are in love? maybe it means more, but really isn't it just some piece of paper letting the US know that you are in love? and that everything you own is both of yours? I find that to be the dumbest thing on earth, /cry because they can't get a paper.

It has a deeper symbolic meaning, but married couples also get many rights that "partners" do not.
#27
Quote by Guitargod12345
How can a living organism be born with a genetic disposition to not seek reproduction, and prove it to me with legitimate scientific knowledge.


There's many theories based on the animal kingdom, which they've found that homosexuality is actually evident in ALL species.
Sometimes they use it as a form of population control.
Other times its just how their body works.

You know nothing about biology if you think this is a choice.

Why would a heterosexual woman put herself on birth control or choose to have the surgery required to make sure she never has children?
We're not born simply to reproduce. And if you for whatever reason disagree with my statement on animals and still feel that we are naturally driven to reproduce, you've seriously got your facts and theories backwards.

There are two sides to every story. You obviously didn't hear the otherside.
And proposition 8 was completely unconstitutional. A lot of people went to the polls with misinformation about what proposition 8 really did thanks to the lies and hypocrisy of the yes on 8 campaign. (Protecting children? Seriously?)

Freedom of speech, yes, those christians have EVERY right to try to spread their religion, BUT THERE IS A DIFFERENCE between trying to share your faith and shoving it down someone's throat.

And if you come back saying that gays are trying to shove their lifestyles down other peoples throats, you are once again confused because there is no "redefining marriage" for straights, or forcing them to have gay marriages themselves, and HOMOSEXUALITY IS NOT CONTAGIOUS. These peoples rights are at stake here.

Injustice anywhere is injustice EVERYWHERE.
You can't just grant civil rights to one group of people, and not give it to another, that is NOT equality.

I don't care if you somehow think your opinion over powers the obvious fact that homosexuality "isn't genetic"...

When you study science and biology and all that, and have your own UNBIASED studies on homosexuality, and find the facts to back you're statements up, THEN and only then will I take your "facts" seriously.
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-- Arthur Honegger

Enjoy reading? Please crit my work .
#29
You are retarded. Also, go look up paragraphs.

/thread
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#30
Quote by Guitargod12345

The term "Gay" can be considered a Pseudonym for modern fascism due to their practices, their hate of those who oppose them and their attempt to silence them, the opposition to things passed by majority vote such as Prop 8 that they oppose, and the behaviors they exhibit towards those who oppose them. I conclude, that the passing of proposition 8 is a advancement is the direction in the control and elimination of fascism, the survival of the U.S. and its democracy. If the 9th circuit court overthrows Proposition 8, I hope the real supreme court intervenes and tries them for treason for attempting to ignore the rights of the majority, their vote and their freedom of choice; may they hang from the rope they set up to suffocate our freedoms and our voice.
this is some of the most poorly thought out drivel ive ever seen in the pit, and thats saying something.

gay people dont want more rights, they just want the same rights afforded to everyone else. i believe oppression of minorities has been pretty common in a lot of fascist countries. the us is based on equal rights for everyone, and we have been advancing throughout our history towards that goal. the abolition of slavery, universal sufferage, and tolerance of religious groups all move in that direction, and gays are the next minority that we will soon wise up and stop oppressing.

"ignore the rights of the majority"??? that right there is fascism. the majority should not be oppressing the minorities.

fucking idiot.
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#31
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You are retarded. Also, go look up paragraphs.

/thread

Paragraphs doesn't exist.
#32
Relating homosexuality to Nazism or Fascism is probably one of the most idiotic things I've read recently, and I browse the pit alot so that's quite an achievement.
#33
actually very recent studies are showing that homosexuals amyglada (part of the brain) are 1/2 the size of a normal persons, so its actually genetic
#34
tl;dr

homophobia is gay. >.> <.<
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#35
Quote by samick007
It has a deeper symbolic meaning, but married couples also get many rights that "partners" do not.



for example?

I just find it to be the dumbest thing on earth, and that's just me.
If you love someone do you really need to go to some court, get documents, and have some Father or Religious guy say some some words? It just seems really dumb and ONLY for show, it really does.


LOL don't hate me for expressing my views.
D;
#36
Quote by ughhhhhhhh
for example?

I just find it to be the dumbest thing on earth, and that's just me.
If you love someone do you really need to go to some court, get documents, and have some Father or Religious guy say some some words? It just seems really dumb and ONLY for show, it really does.


LOL don't hate me for expressing my views.
for example, a spouse can be on someone's insurance, a domestic partner cant. there are also other real benifits.

maybe you should do some research so you dont come off as such an idiot.

just sayin'
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#37
It is flat out discrimination which is against the UN Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, which the U.S. is a part of and therefore must agree to follow. It states in Article 23 that,

"The right of men and women of marriageable age to marry and to found a family shall be recognized."

It does not state that marriage HAS to be between a MAN and a WOMAN.

It also states in Article 26 that,

"All persons are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to the equal protection of the law. In this respect, the law shall prohibit any discrimination and guarantee to all persons equal and effective protection against discrimination on any ground such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status."

OTHER STATUS!!! (since we cannot classify homosexuality under any of the other grounds)

http://www.hrweb.org/legal/cpr.html
(source)

We used to not allow interracial marriage, what makes this any different?

btw, the TS basically stated that homosexuality is fascism and that they should be hung for their "crimes"

"The term "Gay" can be considered a Pseudonym for modern fascism due to their practices, their hate of those who oppose them and their attempt to silence them, the opposition to things passed by majority vote such as Prop 8 that they oppose, and the behaviors they exhibit towards those who oppose them. I conclude, that the passing of proposition 8 is a advancement is the direction in the control and elimination of fascism, the survival of the U.S. and its democracy. If the 9th circuit court overthrows Proposition 8, I hope the real supreme court intervenes and tries them for treason for attempting to ignore the rights of the majority, their vote and their freedom of choice; may they hang from the rope they set up to suffocate our freedoms and our voice."
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#38
Quote by Guitargod12345
Homosexuality is not a trait acquired at birth, it is a learned or chosen trait by a person, it is genetically impossible for someone to homosexual due to the fact that all living creature are born to reproduce. All Mamals however reproduce through sexual behavior,.


First of all:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=b0vGamcQIYs


Second of all:

It is wrong that the mob attacked the christian group, and infringed upon their right to peaceful assembly.

But is it not also wrong that the Mormon church used their patrons money to pump the state full of propaganda to pass proposition 8?

The ideological issue I have with proposition 8 is not entirely that people don't believe in gay marriage (I personally do, but everyone has the right to their beliefs), it is rather that the proposition was passed because of a religious group. Is there not separation of church and state? Is that not one of the fundamental aspects of how our country is governed? Sure, you may be glad that proposition 8 was passed because you share the same ideas ts, but what if a Judaic group pumped a state full of propaganda to outlaw pork? What if a Muslim group made it so that we had to pray to Mecca five times a day?

Did yo also know the Bible calls for death for a great deal of things our law does not? For example, contempt of parents?

The bottom line is that we are not a theocracy and we should not give religious groups even an inch of power in what laws we pass.
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#39
http://news.lavenderliberal.com/2008/11/14/action-alert-geoff-kors-anarchy-new-low-from-yes-on-8-leaders/
apparently people are calling our governor an anarchist because hes anti prop8
btw, alot of the churches used millions of dollars to support the yes on 8 campaigns

can anyone actually give a serious reason that gay or lesbian people should not be married?
and to the person up there talking about it just being a piece of paper
there are certain things that you are entitled to if you are married, an example would be hospital visitation rights and such

on another note, all of you people who are anti prop 8, go out and help in any way you can,
make videos, write to your governor and whatever you can in a peaceful way to help stop this injustice taking place

stand up for what you believe in and do something to make it a reality for our future generations

Edit:
Quote by ughhhhhhhh
for example?

I just find it to be the dumbest thing on earth, and that's just me.
If you love someone do you really need to go to some court, get documents, and have some Father or Religious guy say some some words? It just seems really dumb and ONLY for show, it really does.


LOL don't hate me for expressing my views.

you dont neeed to have a religious person to "say some words"
all you need done is the legal documents to get married, the rest is up to the couple to decide if they should do it or not
Dick+strings= owww
Last edited by rasveer at Nov 15, 2008,
#40
Quote by ughhhhhhhh
for example?

I just find it to be the dumbest thing on earth, and that's just me.
If you love someone do you really need to go to some court, get documents, and have some Father or Religious guy say some some words? It just seems really dumb and ONLY for show, it really does.


LOL don't hate me for expressing my views.

That peice of paper gives you tax breaks and other such benefits that most people would like to have.

Also, whatever happened to seperation of church and state?
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