#1
How much exactlly are you allowed to play out side of a chosen scale? For example if you played in a certain key say A or C in Dorian, Minor Pentatonic or Blues, whatever, do you always have to stay inside of those patterens or can you incorporate notes out side of those scales and still sound O.K? I guess what I'm asking is how much could a player hit "wrong notes" for there chosen scale and still be able to get away with it.
#3
i dont think you have the concept of playing out of key correct, you cant just hit any note and have it sound good.

You need to do things chord dependent.
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#4
have a mess around with adding notes into scales, it will make youe guitar playing alot more interesting and will make playing more enjoyable GET CREATIVE! haha
#5
How much exactlly are you allowed to play out side of a chosen scale? For example if you played in a certain key say A or C in Dorian, Minor Pentatonic or Blues, whatever, do you always have to stay inside of those patterens or can you incorporate notes out side of those scales and still sound O.K? I guess what I'm asking is how much could a player hit "wrong notes" for there chosen scale and still be able to get away with it.


Depends on the player and the audience. Close to 100%, easily.
#6
It depends on what you're playing over and what you mean by "wrong notes"; I don't really consider anything to be a wrong note per se, some of them are just more dissonant than others.

And as someone above said; if you want to start playing with outside notes then you're going to have to start thinking chordally. In fact you're going to have to start thinking in general a whole lot more.
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#7
I disagree with most of the posts here. I believe dissonance can be a very powerful creative tool if used correctly. I recommend you listen to some Buckethead, Ron Jarzombek (my favorite) and Allan Holdsworth and notice how they make things like chromatic notes and 7th intervals that shouldn't fit fit by being creative and open with their playing techniques.
#9
Quote by bangoodcharlote
There are no wrong notes, just notes that sound bad. That is determined solely by your ear (and perhaps your audience).

yup. Also grace notes are key here too. The 'worst' sounding sustained note can make the perfect grace note.
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#10
There aren't any "wrong" notes and it's wrong to think that a scale contains only
right notes. There's really only levels of consonance and disonnance where the notes
of the scale tend to be more consonant.

To use all the notes to where it sounds like you know what you're doing, you have to
know what you're doing (no kidding!).

Basically take in to consideration these things:

o The strength of the melodic line trumps the harmonic content.
o Passing/leading tones
o Inside -> Outside -> Inside
o Know how scale degrees function wrt key and harmony
#11
In that Marty Friedman video a few posts above, he even mentions using notes that don't sound good to be used to flow through to the note that fits the scale, to create a sound that goes from "oh my god what was he thinking" to "oh wow that was a good one!" He does that quite a bit and sounds exotic and isn't conventional, it's his own uniqueness coming out into the instrument.

So as long as you can make it sound good between notes that fit the scale, you'll be fine, just don't stay on it too long or it'll sound awkward.
#12
What did the latest legislation say? Was it three notes? Yes, you're allowed to play a maximum of three chromatic tones. Any more, and you're liable to "disappear" during the night.
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#13
^ lulz

A good tip, I've found through experience, to playing non-diatonic tones is to be aware of how they relate to the actual tones of the scale you are playing in. For example, being conscious that you are actually playing a 7b-6b-5b (or whatever) within the major scale rather than feeling like you're just picking out of the blue (feel free to do that as well, if you'd like). This leads to less "stabbing in the dark" and more confidence in what you are actually doing.
#15
Quote by edg
it's wrong to think that a scale contains only
right notes.
This brings up another important concept: Not every note in the scale will sound good (according to most, but it's of course your decision) over every chord in the scale. Sure, F is in the Am scale, but hit a bunch of Fs over an Am chord. It doesn't sound good, does it?
#16
Quote by Freepower
Imho, the trick to playing whatever the **** you want is to play it with balls.


This is true. A wise man once said to me: There is no error made through audacity that cannot be fixed through even greater audacity. If you go crazy and land on a wrong note, emphasize the hell out of that note. If anyone calls you on it, hit them with your guitar.
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#17
^ and lets not forget you have simple humour as well. Musicians take themselves farrrrrrrrrrrrrrr too seriously, imo. Who doesn't laugh at Mary Had A Little Lamb harmonised in b2s played over a funk backing?
#19
Opeth growls sound good with anything.
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#20
Not sure about the question. But if you're talking about blue notes, use them in a sequence, and don't hold on'em.
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#21
Ego is the trick here. If ur not convinced by the "wrong" notes. Then how on earth will the audience ever be.

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#22
Best thing to do is simply get used to how those notes sound so you...for example, if you're playing a note that obviosuly fits, like one of the more consonant scale degrees, quickly shifting down a half step then back to the same note hardly ever sounds bad as long as you don't dwell on that note. That's often the key, as long as you're using those notes to get to another "safe" one you'll generally be fine.

Having the courage of your convictions is a great thing though, if you play a "wrong" note, but play it confidently and unashamedly then it'll usually sound pretty darn good.
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#23
Quote by steven seagull
Best thing to do is simply get used to how those notes sound so you...for example, if you're playing a note that obviosuly fits, like one of the more consonant scale degrees, quickly shifting down a half step then back to the same note hardly ever sounds bad as long as you don't dwell on that note. That's often the key, as long as you're using those notes to get to another "safe" one you'll generally be fine.

Having the courage of your convictions is a great thing though, if you play a "wrong" note, but play it confidently and unashamedly then it'll usually sound pretty darn good.


Yep yep, Marty friedman is the perfect example.

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#24
To get the outide notes to work, it's just down to practice really.

You also need to listen to good jazz players, like Wes, Charlie Parker, Joe Pass and Pat Metheny. Listen to their phrasing ideas.

Here's a nice quote I found...

''Out is only out relative to where in is. If you're already there, you'll not worry about it. But if you need tips on where out is, it might be best to consider moving somewhere less in and seeing what's there. Assume nothing, just check it out and see where it goes and how it works. When you figure out the whys, you'll be there, and the hows will be obvious. But it won't be out for you anymore. Which is exactly what you want, because out isn't out unless you're looking at it instead of being in it. Can't see it and be it at the same time, unless you're in a movie or some **** like that.

That's just how it works.'
Last edited by mdc at Nov 18, 2008,
#25
Quote by Freepower
Imho, the trick to playing whatever the **** you want is to play it with balls.
I hate the underline button I thought it was a link to a place I could get some balls so I could play whatever the **** I want.

TS yeah I think it's been said. The only rule is what sounds right to you. It might be all chromatic tones with no thought or consideration for any key and still sound awesome.

Good Luck.
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