Page 1 of 4
#1
well, i've been hearing a lot lately about how record labels seem to be dying out.

And i'm wondering, whats gonna be the 'thing' after it, which bands will strive to get.

From my knowledge (which i guess is kinda poor about labels) all labels actually do is give you a loan, promote, and take a profit.

Could this mean, that in the future, that band's might simply just take a loan from banks, or wealthy people, and use the money to promote, record, film, and pay them back with money they've made from tour?

i'm interested to hear your ideas are.
#2
Well now most famous bands have their own recording studio and they can probably afford to promote and record their own CD and then take the profits. It's also easy enough to hire a producer to work on your album.
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#3
Record companies are probably not going to die out.

Sun records, the company that found Elvis in the 50's, managed to stay afloat despite the fact that until Elvis, they were only selling locally.

I think Independent companies are going to become more popular. Its now cheaper than ever to make and produce high quality music.
Does being successful truly make you a sell out? Can't you do your own original music and be successful because of it?
#5
Quote by SAINTJIMMY9999
Record companies are probably not going to die out.

Sun records, the company that found Elvis in the 50's, managed to stay afloat despite the fact that until Elvis, they were only selling locally.

I think Independent companies are going to become more popular. Its now cheaper than ever to make and produce high quality music.


Local flavor, and small time operations are already gaining in popularity.

THere's a lot of potential space in front of the music production world, and it will be filled by whoever is smart enough to assess the current situation and future needs of musicians and then is pushy enough to properly promote their new ideas.

I really hope to see a revival of regional/local lables. Sure anyone can DIY, but that also leads to a lot of absolute crap floating around, lables have a regulating purpose too, you know? One that I think will come back into play as a reaction to the sure mass of self-produced stuff out there.

I hope to devote a lot of my career to encouraging regionalism and the idea of local culture that doesn't have to be "homesy" or "outsider art"ish. In a connected world where most of the media we encounter is undirected, we find our sense of culture being consolidated into one big, lowest-common-denominator blob. And the producers of all arts will have to respond to this trend in some way over the next few years--I think regionalism and a high folk sensibility is one of the best, actually feasable ways to shape that response.

Big record lables will still exist, but they can no longer function in the way they used to (Already the "album" has disapeared from most young consumer's music librarys to be replaced entirely with hand-picked singles). There's already been a shift in production and distribution, but a bigger one is certainly on the way. Let's use our smarts to direct (and take advantage of) this shift and push a cultural agenda that just might make people's lives more full of the arts while we're at it.

Everyone come start the next Greenwich Village or San Francisco artists disctric with me. I'm going to try in Lincoln Nebraska, a small city in the center of the country that will emphasize exactly what the next scale and location of popular art can be, at the same time breaking down the false dichotomy (In the US at least) between rural folk values, and urban high-art values--hell, maybe if enough people do it, it can unite the country in a way the 60's cultural movement actually helped divide it--of course the scope and value of this can be used in any nation.
Last edited by dullsilver_mike at Nov 16, 2008,
#6
dullsilver - as much as I really liked your post and agree with a lot of it, the single biggest problem to solve is the devaluing of music. How can you build an industry on something that people won't buy? Music has become so devalued that selling music is almost as hard as selling a good joke. Why the hell would I buy it if they're circling around ubiquitously for free? (for me, personally, I DO buy music because I have a strong personal standard for having artists get paid for thier work)

We somehow need to change the mindset that music should (and indeed, for seemingly most people, actually *is*) be free before we can have any kind of a new business model for industry.

Sadly, I think back to the days before recordings were possible (and therefore no recordings were for sale) and how musicians made money then.

-Live performance, obviously.

-there used to be wealthy people who had a love for arts ('patrons' as they were called) who would hire a composer to write music for them. Most of the classical composers we know still today were hired by patrons of the arts..... not forgetting that the church was one of the biggest patrons of the arts. Bach was hired by the church to write music.

The problem is that your livelihood was really very tenuous - even if you were sponsored by a patron.

Merch will not help you build a retirement fund.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#7
Those are very good points, and an abstute observation of being back before the medium or recorded music was available. I don't think this is quite true, but hitting on exactly what I'm talking about:
The developed world has become electronically literate (as opposed to reading literate, or an oral culture) and this literacy brings with it certain aesthetic traits, and certain built in idiologies --valueing bredth over depth of information for example. Yes we should change the mindset somewhere around this. I don't think it can be a full return to oral culture, I think that no matter what happens it will be an amalgamation of oral and electronic literacy. People are wired into the global community with one, people will form a more specific identity (one based around region and local if my approach takes hold) with the other. We'll be selling something different than albums, note I didn't say my career would be owning a traditional record lable, just that I want to dedicate it to spreading this sweet new style.

I think we can sell something new (and popular music has been about selling image and identity more than albums, at least since Elvis). We can offer people a chance to go into something in depth to find themselves and their communities. You're absolutely right performance will necessarily be a big part of it. You're absolutely right something like a patron system might be necessary--if these musicians are out making local music and for the first time this local music is actually valued as art, then these people certainly deserve access to the types of grants and endowments made availabe to artists.

THe movement is also about changing communities' perceptions and modern perceptions about art in the community. More of these endowments should pop up as this notion is embraced. More community support will come in traditional modes: when my father was a child the small (many less than 5,000 person) towns in my area were filled with danchalls, bandstands, tabernacles, and theaters. They are gone now. Well they were here once, then they can come again. Why not start by shifting the role of mass media? --Let's get rid of the bigscreen TVs in some of bars and put some dancefloor up instead.

I know I don't articulate what I mean very well in these little posts, but I am talking about a pretty big value shift. Something will shift, I just want to help guide it in this direction. We can sell something other than music to the people (and really deliver it too) a new attitude about celebrating that which surrounds them, a new attitude about celebrating the arts and humanities which have playes second fiddle to science and math in the US at least since the cold war. About coming together in a way that people cannot come together over the wonderful global communities created by mass media(which are important too). I think this is part of the reason communities will come together--litearlly be reformed--to support these types of artists. You can't pirate the local flavor that is currently musically reserved for big cities--like New York, Nashville, Chicago, and LA, until they turn it into something globally marketable(as these cities pride themselves on doing). Those cities are fine, but screw em, I want to help dredge up and sell that local flavor everywhere. I want to give people the other half of the equation, the stuff they're missing out on when only using their electronic literacy--it requires a new(maybe old) medium(ia) and it requires a change in attitude. They way things are and the way the will be for the next decade at least, I'm pretty sure the US, and much of the western world is ready for a new attitude.

edit* I had this written out much more nicely, but then IE froze up
and also--I didn't see this in your post. PArt of this of course is about fostering that higher personal standard for people just like you carry. The problem with this extreme openness and everyone being able to record and distribute there own stuff, is that there is no direction or standard governing the mob. Not to sound elitist, but letting everyone do whatever they want(while fine in itself) is not conducive to forming good art. Love or hate the major record companies, they have shaped the direction of music with a speed and relative precision that freefloating musicians could not. They're as responsible for the idiological movements behind popular music as the artists writing and performing those songs. Let's get our standards back and have a sense of movement, instead of a sense of musical entropy.
Last edited by dullsilver_mike at Nov 16, 2008,
#8
Quote by KingJustinian25
illegal music downloading is probably a major contributor to them dying out..


It is killing much more than just recording companies, this will end up killing music, that is what people don't get.
"Fly with me forever high
And with these wings
We'll set the world on fire
Fly with me through scorching skies
You and I - The lie of lies"

-Symphony X
#9
Quote by Gulli05
It is killing much more than just recording companies, this will end up killing music, that is what people don't get.


That's a very bold statement. One that requires you to provide some sort of argument.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#10
Quote by Archeo Avis
That's a very bold statement. One that requires you to provide some sort of argument.


Well, if you think about it like this: "Everybody in the world would download illegally then no one would pay for albums and artists might give up, because everyone needs money, it is a fact in life." (But this is just my telling about worst case scenerio, there could be something else can happen.)
"Fly with me forever high
And with these wings
We'll set the world on fire
Fly with me through scorching skies
You and I - The lie of lies"

-Symphony X
#11
Quote by Gulli05
Well, if you think about it like this: "Everybody in the world would download illegally then no one would pay for albums and artists might give up, because everyone needs money, it is a fact in life." (But this is just my telling about worst case scenerio, there could be something else can happen.)


Your statement assumes two things...

1) Everyone in the world is, in fact, illegally downloading all of their music.
2) Record sales are an artist's only source of income.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#12
Quote by Archeo Avis
Your statement assumes two things...

1) Everyone in the world is, in fact, illegally downloading all of their music.
2) Record sales are an artist's only source of income.


Nevermind, sorry for writing that.
"Fly with me forever high
And with these wings
We'll set the world on fire
Fly with me through scorching skies
You and I - The lie of lies"

-Symphony X
#13
Quote by Gulli05
It is killing much more than just recording companies, this will end up killing music, that is what people don't get.


You also assume that people write music for the money, rather than for fun
#14
Quote by Archeo Avis
Your statement assumes two things...

1) Everyone in the world is, in fact, illegally downloading all of their music.
2) Record sales are an artist's only source of income.


+1

i'd still record and give away music for free gladly. i'm sure plenty of other musicians would as well. it'd be nice to make a living off of it but i'm doing ok so far with just making it because i enjoy it .
#15
People are more motivated to become great if there is a tangible reward attached to it.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#16
EDIT: This is in regard to the post above axeman chris's.

^^^^That may be true, and I'm not saying you're not a good musician, but the truth is that if you want to be REALLY GOOD at music, it has to be more than a full-time job. What with all the writing, self-practicing, band practices, gigs, networking to get more gigs, and so on and so forth, just to get your music out in a modest regard, and where you have a strong profile within even a modest scene.....having a full-time job and doing it for fun works for a lot of people, but the truth is that a full-time job gets in the way of making GREAT original music.

I'm not saying you can't be a good musician and write great songs while still working a 9-5 or whatever.....it's just that, when you look at the histories of all your favorite/great musicians and songwriters, all they did was work on that classic album(s) or piece(s) for whatever length of time, and they either nearly starved or whatever to get it done, because it took that amount of concentration so that they could get to the highest point of their talent. Having a day job to live off of would have prevented them from getting to that point. I'm sure some will disagree, but it's true.

I'm not knocking people who play for pleasure on weekends or whatever for a few extra bucks....that's cool, and if that's what you're in it for, I applaud people who find their niche that way. But without a source of income that allows a musician to focus entirely on creating, the masterpieces of pop or classical music could not have happened, and whether that money comes from a rich patron, gigs, merch, or albums, it has to come from somewhere.
'Cause I have done it before and I will do it some more....
Last edited by BHowell at Nov 17, 2008,
#17
+1

Ct
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#18
I agree 100% to what BHowell said.
I don't have a job atm, and just about all of my time goes towards music.
It's at the point that if I don't get another job real soon, I'll have to move out of my apt and go back to my mom's, but that's a price I'm willing to pay.
Quote by SteveHouse
This thread is officially about sucking Sleaze off for a sig.


Quote by tayroar
Hey Sleaze I'll give you a blowjob if you sig me. Maybe even some nudey photos?


Quote by crazy8rgood


Sleaze, that made me lulz in my pants.


Quote by 36mikeyb36
hahaha Sleaze i'd give you my mom for that one.
#19
Dullsilver brings up a very important point.

It has been a long time since music made cultural ripples in the laws and customs of society. IMHO the whole grunge music was it. Now since it's become so acesscable, and so much music exists, there is no longer a way for talented artists to be recognized. I think in part it is because of the attitude associated with music these days. People are just so gung-ho about it, concert turnout is dropping in part due to prices which have to be jacked up so artists can make a living, and a depreciation in the values in society.

I cannot go say Hey lets get our friends and host a party and get a band to play at it. It's become very obscure, now as teens care more about putting drunk pics of themselves blatantly holding beer cups/cans so as to appear "cool". There is no counter-culture, as the whole rap deal is just an entity of trash so that can't even APPEAR to be against it.

I am currently doing a report on Jimi Hendrix for my english class, as to his status on being an "american rebel" and his impact, ideas, and values which went against traditional society and how they changed the world.

We ain't got kids with prescence out there wanting to prove to the world they have an idea and a passion on stage. Kids go up self-loathing and just sort of standing around doing jack ****, no prescence no idea, nothing.

You want arts, music, and culture and freedom to prosper? Make it happen. Start small, network, get an army of we the underground outcasts who have been dying for something to cling to for the past 10 years. there are millions of us out there who want a so-called revolution, and I'm tired of waiting for it. I know it's cliche, but you've gotta be the change you want to see, reinvent the world with new philosophies and ideas. Too many players want music to be devoid of politics, controversy, idealism, and new philosophy. They want to simply make some good music. It can't work like that. It's gotta fight back.

If you want to join my personal movement for the reinstatement of the musical revolution, feel free to pm me.
#20
Quote by Highwaytohell
We ain't got kids with prescence out there wanting to prove to the world they have an idea and a passion on stage. Kids go up self-loathing and just sort of standing around doing jack ****, no prescence no idea, nothing.

So true.
I can't stand that.
I hate how style and presence have fallen to the wayside.
The bright side is that I aim to bring it back.
Quote by SteveHouse
This thread is officially about sucking Sleaze off for a sig.


Quote by tayroar
Hey Sleaze I'll give you a blowjob if you sig me. Maybe even some nudey photos?


Quote by crazy8rgood


Sleaze, that made me lulz in my pants.


Quote by 36mikeyb36
hahaha Sleaze i'd give you my mom for that one.
#21
Quote by Highwaytohell
Start small, network, get an army of we the underground outcasts who have been dying for something to cling to for the past 10 years. there are millions of us out there who want a so-called revolution, and I'm tired of waiting for it. ... Too many players want music to be devoid of politics, controversy, idealism, and new philosophy. They want to simply make some good music. It can't work like that. It's gotta fight back.

If you want to join my personal movement for the reinstatement of the musical revolution, feel free to pm me.


I'm with ya 100%. I've been saying for a few years now that we've got to be about due. I think that change is going to happen as a reaction to the current state of urban music and extend into rock though. Hip hop now is in the same boat that hair metal was in 1990 - a house of cards just waiting for a catalyst to come and knock it all down.

And now that the developed western world is officially in recession.... I think we're one step closer. I also think that the US electing a black president contributes to that social fabric of change that brings about other change too.

I have no idea, really, what it will be, but change-is-a-comin.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#22
Quote by axemanchris
I'm with ya 100%. I've been saying for a few years now that we've got to be about due. I think that change is going to happen as a reaction to the current state of urban music and extend into rock though. Hip hop now is in the same boat that hair metal was in 1990 - a house of cards just waiting for a catalyst to come and knock it all down.

And now that the developed western world is officially in recession.... I think we're one step closer. I also think that the US electing a black president contributes to that social fabric of change that brings about other change too.

I have no idea, really, what it will be, but change-is-a-comin.

CT


I saw people who'd never done politics in their life, never voted, shed tears and sweat for this man

I saw a nation undergo a change never seen before.

When the world changes, the art changes.
#23
+1 to all axemanchris and Highwayto hell are saying.

I agree that things are rumbling underneath. It's just that we have to encourage people to go with it by our own example, as it's been said. There's a lot of apathy in people now, enough to discourage others from turning them around. It's an uphill battle to overcome that, but it's changing over.

I also find it very interesting that every time the "state of the nation" changes, the music changes drastically. JFK, RFK, and MLK are assassinated--the musical response is things like Band of Gypsys ("Machine Gun") and the death of the psychedelic pop scene. Reagan is elected in the early '80s, and how that spurred the hardcore and punk scenes in America, and how Bill Clinton was elected around the same time grunge was rubbing out the behavior that ran '80s hair metal into the ground.
'Cause I have done it before and I will do it some more....
#24
Absolutely, yes. And a culture in recession usually generates new artistic ideas (or at least recycles old ones) that are a reaction to the status quo.... Like Nirvana in '91.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#25
Because of the deterioration of culture and love in america during the bush administration, we get the apathy toward culture and the drive towards crap, that's how rap really took roots. Nobody wants to face the world anymore you know?

Well this is the time, just as all the heavy metal bands are coming back and every amazing band is going on tour again.
#26
Quote by Highwaytohell
Because of the deterioration of culture and love in america during the bush administration, we get the apathy toward culture and the drive towards crap, that's how rap really took roots. Nobody wants to face the world anymore you know?

Well this is the time, just as all the heavy metal bands are coming back and every amazing band is going on tour again.


While I understand where you're coming from, I have to say you're being a bit biased here. While a lot of current rap is pretty materialistic, the forerunners of the genre in the '80s were very intelligent, socially-minded, and had a lot of things to say that were very culturally relevant, no matter who you were. Groups like Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, Run DMC, and Public Enemy all made music that talked about the problems around them and in the country, more so than any metal group out at the time or now. I hate to say that, but it's true. Metal music is about as apolitical as you can get, except for emo (which you can probably attribute to the unfocused angst of middle class white kids, which is a political statement of itself if you believe that).

Groups like The Roots and others are still staying socially conscious in rap about things....hell, Kanye West got a huge amount of press for speaking his mind about Katrina and Bush. Bands like Avenged Sevenfold, Lamb of God, a reunited Black Sabbath, etc....., were not at any of the recent "Vote for Change" rallies, or any political event in recent times that had a high profile. That's either because the promoters didn't want them and didn't think they'd garner any press attention.....or the bands didn't want to go. Either way, that doesn't say much for current metal overtaking the cultural apathy you attribute to mainstream rap.

The truth is, every music genre is to blame for the current cultural recession and lack of dialogue about it. Few musicians want to speak out now for fear of alienating fans....and also because they share the fans' viewpoints of not caring and placing blame on anything but their own shoulders. Blaming hip hop for this ignores plenty of other concurrent issues with the current state of modern music and the business behind it.
'Cause I have done it before and I will do it some more....
#27
Very well put.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#28
I agree wholeheartedly with you guys, but I think the current context provides space for a movement even bigger than grunge if you catch my drift. Keep talking about Hendrix, because if great people start forming some cohesive idiologies about community and art and distributing these ideas to the public, we can have something as large as the cultural shift of the '60s IMO. It's not just current politics, it's the inertia of the last 30 years that's really catching up with us--the movement to a mass media world and all of the political, social, idiological, and even cognitive changes that came along with that shift. That is the undercurrent beneath the uncountable amount of media content available, and the narrow amount of powerful art being produced in popular culture. That's the undercurrent of people not having a strong sense of personal and community identity.

Look at us discussing this: we're all smart and can see the signs and the potential for "revolution" or at least some type of strong progress. We can see all of that, but we're not even talking about what the specific idiologies would be to fill that space, we just insist that someone needs to do it. Haphazardly embracing anyone who will ruffle some cultural feathers isn't going to do the trick. We need to really assess exactly which courses of art might thrive in the environment and descriminate against those that cannot, we really need to steer any type of revolution toward success. The knowledge and will isn't enough IMO, there has to be a clear aesthetic movement, one with a very specific set of principles that will change how people think about more things than just art.

Personally, I think an emphasis on regionalism and local community would be the best way to approach such a movement (as I kind of get at in my earlier posts). I think that emphasis could succeed; it's not the only approach that could succeed, but it is one of a closed set that could. What approaches do you guys think could best be used to leave a lasting impression? Think about them a bit, and list them here. We don't have to agree on that, but the people pushing this movement(hopefully that will be us) do need to agree on it before they try to enact some change.

edit* so glad to see I'm not the only one who constantly thinks about these things. You all give me hope that our assesment of the current situation is somewhat accurate and that people really do want to be reached by a change.
Last edited by dullsilver_mike at Nov 17, 2008,
#29
Quote by dullsilver_mike
I agree wholeheartedly with you guys, but I think the current context provides space for a movement even bigger than grunge if you catch my drift. Keep talking about Hendrix, because if great people start forming some cohesive idiologies about community and art and distributing these ideas to the public, we can have something as large as the cultural shift of the '60s IMO. It's not just current politics, it's the inertia of the last 30 years that's really catching up with us--the movement to a mass media world and all of the political, social, idiological, and even cognitive changes that came along with that shift. That is the undercurrent beneath the uncountable amount of media content available, and the narrow amount of powerful art being produced in popular culture. That's the undercurrent of people not having a strong sense of personal and community identity.

Look at us discussing this: we're all smart and can see the signs and the potential for "revolution" or at least some type of strong progress. We can see all of that, but we're not even talking about what the specific idiologies would be to fill that space, we just insist that someone needs to do it. Haphazardly embracing anyone who will ruffle some cultural feathers isn't going to do the trick. We need to really assess exactly which courses of art might thrive in the environment and descriminate against those that cannot, we really need to steer any type of revolution toward success. The knowledge and will isn't enough IMO, there has to be a clear aesthetic movement, one with a very specific set of principles that will change how people think about more things than just art.

Personally, I think an emphasis on regionalism and local community would be the best way to approach such a movement (as I kind of get at in my earlier posts). I think that emphasis could succeed; it's not the only approach that could succeed, but it is one of a closed set that could. What approaches do you guys think could best be used to leave a lasting impression? Think about them a bit, and list them here. We don't have to agree on that, but the people pushing this movement(hopefully that will be us) do need to agree on it before they try to enact some change.

edit* so glad to see I'm not the only one who constantly thinks about these things. You all give me hope that our assesment of the current situation is somewhat accurate and that people really do want to be reached by a change.



About the Hip-hop thing, I do agree that the figures in the 80s were very prominent and eminent. They were clear-minded when it came to social injustice at the time, but I think that may have deteriorated to the point where the real guys are underground. I feel the pop-cultural figures (Gossip figures) have grown worse than they previously were. Gossip always existed, just not this bad...

You point out something true man, What will the values of a revolution be? How will we go about supporting such a thing?
I think it starts with a group who shares similar values and is lead by a progressive thinker.
I personally think we need to completely rethink responsibility in life. Too many people blame everything on everyone else. this revolution should put emphasis on personal discipline, in balance with personal harmony, love, and freedom. It should focus on transcescion to higher ideals, the idea of a universal love for nature through the power of music, which is already the ultimate language.
I would love to be part of such a thing, speaking, fighting, playing, for the sake of a cause I perpetuate, as a personal freedom and a need for expression.

I'm going to be 16 in a few weeks, I guess I have to start somewhere.
#30
Quote by Highwaytohell
but I think that may have deteriorated to the point where the real guys are underground.


Absolutely true. As PE says.... "consciousness shrunk from platinum down to gold"

Quote by Highwaytohell

You point out something true man, What will the values of a revolution be? How will we go about supporting such a thing?...

I would love to be part of such a thing, speaking, fighting, playing, for the sake of a cause I perpetuate, as a personal freedom and a need for expression.

I'm going to be 16 in a few weeks, I guess I have to start somewhere.


I think we're already in the midst of it. We're just not fully recognizing it as a dominant movement yet.

They say that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. The single biggest fundamental movement of the last few decades - at least since the last recession - has been corporatization. Certainly it was happening before the last recession, but has only picked up steam since. But there *are* people speaking out against it. There are cultural subgroups (currently representing the subculture for the most part) that are rebelling against it.

Ironically, it is music - thoroughly corporatized itself - that is not yet, for the most part. But we are seeing a musical movement as record labels seem to becoming less powerful, and the DIY ethic picks up steam.

....which all fits beautifully into your local/regionalist ideas....

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#31
Quote by axemanchris
dullsilver - as much as I really liked your post and agree with a lot of it, the single biggest problem to solve is the devaluing of music. How can you build an industry on something that people won't buy? Music has become so devalued that selling music is almost as hard as selling a good joke. Why the hell would I buy it if they're circling around ubiquitously for free? (for me, personally, I DO buy music because I have a strong personal standard for having artists get paid for thier work)

We somehow need to change the mindset that music should (and indeed, for seemingly most people, actually *is*) be free before we can have any kind of a new business model for industry.

Sadly, I think back to the days before recordings were possible (and therefore no recordings were for sale) and how musicians made money then.

-Live performance, obviously.

-there used to be wealthy people who had a love for arts ('patrons' as they were called) who would hire a composer to write music for them. Most of the classical composers we know still today were hired by patrons of the arts..... not forgetting that the church was one of the biggest patrons of the arts. Bach was hired by the church to write music.

The problem is that your livelihood was really very tenuous - even if you were sponsored by a patron.

Merch will not help you build a retirement fund.

CT

Before there were recordings, there were songsheets. People bought the songsheets, learned the song and sang along with it in the theatres and music halls whenever it was perfomed.
Can't see it working today though.
I think the whole thing is pointing towards more touring, which is strange when you think about it, who'd have thought that something like the net, a form of media, would eventualy be responsible for less recording sales?
Although there's one way of improving actual solid sales rather than internet downloading, don't just have the recording in the package you're selling and make what people would buy from record shops more worthwhile to buy.
I mean, what do people pay for a CD album these days? £10 maybe? How much does it cost to make each package? Mere pennies if you have them made in big enough bulk.
The same record companies who used to spend a hell of a lot more on a vinal package for an album but sold CDs at the same price, even though they were much cheaper to make, can now easily afford to throw a t-shirt or a baseball cap or an item of jewelry or any promotional item that would suit the recording, into the package.
Last edited by SlackerBabbath at Nov 18, 2008,
#32
Quote by Highwaytohell
Too many players want music to be devoid of politics, controversy, idealism, and new philosophy. They want to simply make some good music. It can't work like that. It's gotta fight back.


It has worked like that. The heyday was Jazz was not marked by "socially conscious" bands. Danny Kaye, Bing Crosby, and the Andrews Sisters weren't fighting anything, except crowds of fans. Whether that's what we need right now is another question.

For music to be popular, it must be in touch with its audience. In WWII, that meant "Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy." In 1968-69, it meant "Revolution" and "Come Together." (The Beatles didn't attain their initial popularity with songs about drugs or politics, I might add) Political music that doesn't tap into a large current of thought will never be popular. You've got to have a politically charged climate to make political music work. It's great you've got that attitude but take it with a grain of salt. If you've only got a hammer, all your problems look like nails.

Quote by SlackerBabbath
The same record companies who used to spend a hell of a lot more on a vinal package for an album but sold CDs at the same price, even though they were much cheaper to make, can now easily afford to throw a t-shirt or a baseball cap or an item of jewelry or any promotional item that would suit the recording, into the package.


That's very true. I often go out of my way to buy vinyl pressing I'll probably never play just for decent sized artwork. I'd pay a little extra to get an artwork poster with music, especially if it doesn't have damn creases in it. Reminds me that I miss the days when I got "feelies" with computer games. I still have a stack of old manuals and cloth maps I go through for fun.
This space foreclosed, due to the ailing economy.
Last edited by Free to Guitar at Nov 20, 2008,
#33
Artistic value needs to be given back to music. When that happens, it will thrive again. Currently, it's just an industry, and music is just the product. No wonder it's faltering.
We're only strays.
#34
The intent of this post ^ made me want to get up and cheer.

And then reality stepped in and I was reminded that the most popular flavour in the world is.... vanilla. Not exciting. Not bold. But.... palatable and inoffensive to all.

Can artistic value come in vanilla? I dunno.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#35
Quote by axemanchris
The intent of this post ^ made me want to get up and cheer.

And then reality stepped in and I was reminded that the most popular flavour in the world is.... vanilla. Not exciting. Not bold. But.... palatable and inoffensive to all.

Can artistic value come in vanilla? I dunno.

CT


No I think that it'd actually be pretty easy to change that. Of course it's going to seem impossible in the current success model. Art is about expressing things and making people feel things, and that can be done as long as the music is in the listener's ear.

I think if people knew what they were missing, vanilla wouldn't be the mainstream flavor anymore.
We're only strays.
#36
*Jumps on the rantwagon*

I think all we need to get a music revolution is a really good band with a really good frontman.
Quote by MooshMooshMarc

Hi 5 man! this is what Im talkin bout!


Rig:
05' B.C. Rich Warlock
Line 6 Spide III 75 Watt Combo
Behringer Cry Babe
Digitech Death Metal
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D'aDarrio XL
Chain for a strap
#37
Quote by xEpidemicx
*Jumps on the rantwagon*

I think all we need to get a music revolution is a really good band with a really good frontman.


It's all about the music. That's what has been forgotten and we have to get back. The Next "revolution" in music will be... from music lol. An artist making amazing art.
We're only strays.
#38
in my opinion, it's just like the economy here in the U.S. right now, the situation sucks and some businesses (labels) won't be able to cope and they'll die. but others - probably the bigger labels in this case - will come up with creative ways to save themselves and this is usually when the market(s) gets reinvented to work for the current situation. that's my take on it anyway.
Quote by Briyan_15
I think this man has a reputation to defend and "poop head" is not in that reputation.


Quote by omegasus
RUSSELL! WHAT THE ****!!!!
#39
Quote by xEpidemicx
*Jumps on the rantwagon*

I think all we need to get a music revolution is a really good band with a really good frontman.


Shotgun!!

YES!!

anyway..
bands can no longer become famous from selling records or radio plays etc. now it has to be physically done, playing show after show, organizing with other bands to play shows, networking etc etc. as someone said before, playing music must be a full time job if you want to make it big. the problem is that now people arnt making enough off of just playing gigs and selling merch, so it isnt viable to place music at the forefront.

maybe now with obama in charge, we may finally get the revolution that is about 4 years over due. Bush was more of a comedians president and many comedians became big under him. now we have a president that, maybe 40- 50 years ago, would have been shot just for running for president. clearly there is something important to take from that.

and chris i agree that vanilla is plain and boring, but then again so are the majority of the working class and upper class. most people are far too programmed to be able to identify what is really good art. for example a few years ago, someone sold a blank canvas for over one million $(US dollars i think). now im no painter, but im pretty sure that you cant take a blank canvas and class it as art, but then the vanilla people of the world saw it as something more. if we consider this when making music, we could be very clever and come up with something truly terrific.
Who decided that pie would be sold on Tuesday but not Wednesday?
#40
Quote by Dunjma
Shotgun!!

for example a few years ago, someone sold a blank canvas for over one million $(US dollars i think). now im no painter, but im pretty sure that you cant take a blank canvas and class it as art,


That's brilliant. I wish I thought of that. Apparently *somebody* thought it was art.... even art that was worth $1M.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
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