#1
Hey everyone, I searched, but didn't exactly find anything.

I've liked jazz for quite a while now, but have never really learnt anything. I just had a couple questions regarding this...Number one, I know what standards ARE, but I don't exactly remember what you do with them. I know you most often improv over them/alter the chords for chord construction theory/progression practice, but I just wanted to know what else, if anything. And last, what are some good standards to learn? I have the first half a page of Autumn Leaves (Old teacher had me read over it to change the chords), but I want more.

Thanks in advance! Oh, and if there is a thread on this already and I missed it, please tell me and I'll delete this one.
My gear:
Schecter C-1+ w/ Seymour duncan Jazz (neck) and Full Shred (bridge), with Sperzels
B-52 LG-100A 4x12 half stack
Rogue LX405 Bass
Yamaha classical
Some sort of acoustic Squier
Boss Flanger
Lyon Chorus
#2
You'll love this site: http://www.jazzpla.net/jazznote3000.htm

I honestly don't know what else you could do with standards besides improv with them and analyze them (not in that order).
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”


-Max Planck

☮∞☯♥
#4
I didn't think there was anything else either, I just wanted to make sure, haha. Thanks so far, guys!
My gear:
Schecter C-1+ w/ Seymour duncan Jazz (neck) and Full Shred (bridge), with Sperzels
B-52 LG-100A 4x12 half stack
Rogue LX405 Bass
Yamaha classical
Some sort of acoustic Squier
Boss Flanger
Lyon Chorus
#6
Standards are important because they provide a common language: Because everybody knows them, unfamiliar musicians can play together fairly easily. "Perfect" standards (Autumn leaves, All the Things You Are, the ones that mostly have fourth movements) are also great for those new to the style because they tend to be less confusing.

What to do with them? Learn them, use them as platforms for your own ideas, steal from them, but build a nice repertoire of tunes you know well, so you can confidently jam with other jazz players.
#7
Well, cool. I didn't expect good answers 'till tomorrow, ha. That theory book and the...Russian? Website should keep me busy for a while. Thanks everyone!
My gear:
Schecter C-1+ w/ Seymour duncan Jazz (neck) and Full Shred (bridge), with Sperzels
B-52 LG-100A 4x12 half stack
Rogue LX405 Bass
Yamaha classical
Some sort of acoustic Squier
Boss Flanger
Lyon Chorus
#8
Quote by phoenix_88
buy the real book.

Can anybody tell me the difference between a real book and a fake book?
If you play guitar, please don't waste your time in The Pit, and please instead educate yourself in the Musician Talk forum, where you can be missing out on valuable info.
Quote by DiminishedFifth
It's like you read my mind!

I got meself a self-approving sig. Kick. Ass.
#10
Quote by SilverDark
Can anybody tell me the difference between a real book and a fake book?



There isn't one.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#11
Quote by Archeo Avis
There isn't one.

So why the hell do "real books" and "fake books" exist as two separate entities?

...I smell greed...
If you play guitar, please don't waste your time in The Pit, and please instead educate yourself in the Musician Talk forum, where you can be missing out on valuable info.
Quote by DiminishedFifth
It's like you read my mind!

I got meself a self-approving sig. Kick. Ass.
#12
Quote by SilverDark
So why the hell do "real books" and "fake books" exist as two separate entities?

...I smell greed...



They don't. Someone decided to be clever and name a fake book "the real book". It's not a difficult concept. What does greed have to do with it?
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#13
Quote by Archeo Avis
They don't. Someone decided to be clever and name a fake book "the real book". It's not a difficult concept. What does greed have to do with it?

Because buying something like the "real" book seems better and more trusting that it's 80 songs are definite and true while a "fake" book with 240 songs seems unlikely that it's accurate.
If you play guitar, please don't waste your time in The Pit, and please instead educate yourself in the Musician Talk forum, where you can be missing out on valuable info.
Quote by DiminishedFifth
It's like you read my mind!

I got meself a self-approving sig. Kick. Ass.
#14
Quote by SilverDark
Because buying something like the "real" book seems better and more trusting that it's 80 songs are definite and true while a "fake" book with 240 songs seems unlikely that it's accurate.
One is inaccurate, cheap, and illegal, the other is legit, accurate, and expensive.
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”


-Max Planck

☮∞☯♥
#15
there is 'the real book' published by hal leonard (technically it was first made 'illegally' by berklee kids) which costs money (it's like $25... really not that expensive all in all...) and it is a fake book. a fake book is just a book that has a ton of transcriptions of the melody and chord changes of (usually) jazz standards, etc.

fake book is the overall term for these books, 'the real book' is the name of the most popular one.
#16
Quote by metal4all
One is inaccurate, cheap, and illegal, the other is legit, accurate, and expensive.
HA, the errors are pretty minute and rare. Every jazz guy I know wants my real book (the underground fifth edition FTW).

Honestly the expensive edition (sixth edition) doesnt even have all the songs. Would you really want to lose songs like the flintstones theme?


I know what standards ARE, but I don't exactly remember what you do with them

Anyway, to thread starter: Keep in mind that most jazz bands have 4 saxophones, 4 trumpets, 4 trombones, a drummer, a bassist, a pianist, 2 guitarists or one guitarist and one banjo player (earlier bands had banjo's ).

With a jazz standard a couple of lead instruments will play the melody you see on your lead sheet. Sometimes, you might see other instruments of the same section playing in unison or in fifths or octaves with the main melody.

If you're an awesome arranger (and you know free counterpoint duke ellington style) you could write a countermelody for the horns or trombones to play.

A bassist will "walk" around the chords. I think our bassist mostly uses arpeggios with alot of chromatic lines, which is what it sounds like. I really wouldn't know, I can play bass but when I do it sounds like I'm playing a low guitar and not a real bass (it just doesn't sound like what a bassist would play)

A guitarist and pianist will comp (fancy name for "play") the chords, either on 2 and 4 or 1 and 3 or on all beats. Sometimes a rhthym will be given or your guitarist might hear a really obvious rhthym, otherwise use the rhthyms I've suggested. Sadly, guitarists barely ever play any of the melody, let alone solo.

The drummer will usually play something simple like a "bass snare bass snare" beat. You might have a better drummer that can play some nice, original drum lines, but otherwise.

Another solo instrument (could be anything in the band, including piano, guitar, drums and bass) will improvise in between the melody phrasings. This is what your best musician would do (like lester young and louis armstrong).

So yeah. You dont need a full 18 peice band, jazz is pretty much an anything goes sort of thing. You can hear Miles Davis recordings with just a pianist, a bassist, a trumpet and a drummer.
#17
I don't know if they has been said but it would be in your best interests to memorize a few standards. Since the guitar is capable of comping the chords, you can get by with just learning the harmony rather than the melody. Now when you go to jam, if you don't have your real book, you can call a tune from memory rather than dig your head in a real book or say you don't know the tune.
12 fret fury
#18
Ive never been a big fan of jazz, but my father had a recording of Charlie Parker's Cherokee on vinyl and the sax player was a tour de force of non-diatonic improvisation! Its also a jazz classic...so id highly recommend you check it out if you can.
#19
Yeah, Parker barely played in key. He even broke some improvisation rules that most guys today follow, like consonant notes over stressed beats. He probably did it because he was high and got away with it because of his good reputation. As you can tell, I'm not a fan of Parker.
#20
Well he did it because it sounds good. Improvisation in jazz today is built from his legacy: Those rules come from people trying to imitate his style. But he definitely places chord tones on the 1 almost all the time - which is basically the one constant in bop.

And he kicked heroin before he died. But I prefer the stuff he did when he was still a user. It was less poppy, more adventurous. He had to build the reputation first.
#21
Quote by Freepower
Buy Mark Levine's theory book.


Seconded...that book literally changed how I percieved theory in abou 30 minutes lol. A truly excellent read

And yeah, as far as standards are concerned get a hold of The Real Book. There are 2(that I am aware of) and basically both are full of standards.

I think the best approaches as far as learning standards is concerned is practicing reharmonization etc. Also, listen to the original and analyse what the soloists are doing over the chord progressions. You can analyse the key changes and what different progressions are in. How they modulate between keys. Different substitutions that have been made etc. There really is alot of things to practice as far as learning jazz standards. Then of course there is improvisation. But once you have analyzed a particular standard over and over your improvising options will totally open up for you. Which reminds me...I should alot more of this thing these days lol
Andy
Last edited by Andy_Mclaughlan at Nov 20, 2008,
#22
Quote by Nick_
Well he did it because it sounds good. Improvisation in jazz today is built from his legacy: Those rules come from people trying to imitate his style. But he definitely places chord tones on the 1 almost all the time - which is basically the one constant in bop.

And he kicked heroin before he died. But I prefer the stuff he did when he was still a user. It was less poppy, more adventurous. He had to build the reputation first.
I've seen licks of his that have really dissonant notes on 1.

That's sort of how I like Coltrane and Davis, some of their best bebop work was done when they were shooting up (really not promoting heroin though, don't do it unless you know exactly what you're doing).

I don't really like it when guys outright copy other guys. I think there should remain some originality in music. But even I will be influenced by random musicians. Let's face it, I've gotten half my altered dominant licks from listening to jazz guys.

And there are 3 real books. The first one absolutly rocks and is mostly standards and swing tunes. The second ones good, but mostly contains obscure jazz songs from the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's (and also has the flintstones theme song). I don't have the third one printed but I personally didn't like it.
#23
But it still sounds good. And it's like when you learn counterpoint and you analyse Bach and get upset when he systematically breaks every rule of counterpoint that you've learned and still has it sound great. That was the point.

Davis and Coltrane I prefer post-heroin. They both kicked in the mid/late 50s, got into pot and psychedelics.