#1
Hello everyone,last week I've learn the song Master Of Puppets and I play it with only down picking.The problem is when I play with the song my arm is hurt and my arm muscle is locked up and I don't know if I'm playing right so please help me.
#2
You're playin it right - Hetfield does it all with down picking as well.

You just have to strengthen your muscles, and that comes from practice.

Maybe slow it down just a bit until it becomes comfortable?
Do you feel warm within your cage?

And have you figured out yet -


Life goes by?
Quote by Hydra150
There's a dick on Earth, too
It's you
#3
Play it at a slow speed and work up speed until you can play it at full speed. That song requires alot of stamina to play through to the end.
Quote by ravioli123
James, a type of sandwich:

A sandwich that consists of ham, turkey, roast beef, shredded cheese, nacho cheese doritos, and ranch on a toasted bun.
"Hey man lets go get a couple James's for lunch"
#4
also you don't have to play it with all down picks if you don't want too, people who tell you you must do this are just being stupid. Same with people telling you you must play bucketheads big sur moon with all up picks, nonsense. Just play it whatever way is comfortable for you.
#6
So my muscles don't need to get exhausted or they should get exhausted?
#7
No they should never get exhausted!! the guy who said "you just need to build your muscles" is an idiot trying to teach when he himself is obviously ignorant to the subject.

Heres a general rule for ALL technique: strive for comfort. When you see an awesome dude flying around on his guitar making it look easy its because it IS easy for him. The key to great technique is learning precision and how little tension it really takes to execute maneuvers. Things are going to be uncomfortable at first always but your end goal should be comfort and relaxation. Forcing yourself through the tension will at best make you learn terrible technique and at worst will injure your body in irreparable ways. A dude once said "its very hard to play the guitar badly"
#8
Quote by Deep-Sea-Seamus
the guy who said "you just need to build your muscles" is an idiot trying to teach when he himself is obviously ignorant to the subject.

Actually, what he said was that your muscles strengthen with practice, not that he should hit the gym every chance he gets. Please don't twist what other people say.

Master of Puppets requires a massive amount of stamina to do constant picking, and stamina is the ability of your muscles to withstand strain for extended periods. Even if you minimize the tension in your muscles, there will still be a point where your muscles will tire out. Your muscles will increase in stamina and strength over time, so practice is key here.
Quote by ravioli123
James, a type of sandwich:

A sandwich that consists of ham, turkey, roast beef, shredded cheese, nacho cheese doritos, and ranch on a toasted bun.
"Hey man lets go get a couple James's for lunch"
#9
^ this is true to a point. this is like saying that a beginner guitarist simply can't play guitar for more than 7 minutes at a time. i know when i first started playing guitar i'd play for hours on end. if you're doing it with minimal tension then playing that fast for that long shouldn't be an issue.
#10
Quote by ravioli123
Actually, what he said was that your muscles strengthen with practice, not that he should hit the gym every chance he gets. Please don't twist what other people say.

Master of Puppets requires a massive amount of stamina to do constant picking, and stamina is the ability of your muscles to withstand strain for extended periods. Even if you minimize the tension in your muscles, there will still be a point where your muscles will tire out. Your muscles will increase in stamina and strength over time, so practice is key here.


you said hes "playing it right" when he specifically said in his post that his arm was locked up and it hurt after playing. Not really sure how anyone would read that in anyway other than you telling him its ok to play though the pain mate
#11
^ +1

and welcome back seamus, its been awhile since you've frequented the MT forum

TS, if theres ever pain then its safe to say something is wrong. a good example is that i bought an acoustic guitar and my fret hand hurt terribly when playing. the reason? my strings were FAR too high from the fret board. i could've driven a buick between the strings and the fretboard. in your case however TS its all about your right hand technique. try to make the absolute minimal amount of movement required and use ONLY your wrist, you don't really need to use your whole arm to downpick and if you use just your wrist you can go faster with less (and hopefully eventually no) tension at all. i love to knock the hell out of my guitar but it can be done without flailing around and beating it to death.
#14
^ by making the picking motion with just your wrist. it should be what you're doing since you should be palm muting the verse sections (end of passion play, crumbling away etc etc) try to not grip down excessively on the pick, you shouldn't need a death grip. loosening up on the pick is a good way to get rid of a chunk of excess tension right off the bat.
#15
Quote by z4twenny
^ this is true to a point. this is like saying that a beginner guitarist simply can't play guitar for more than 7 minutes at a time. i know when i first started playing guitar i'd play for hours on end. if you're doing it with minimal tension then playing that fast for that long shouldn't be an issue.

A beginner guitarist isn't going to play stuff that is very taxing, whereas an experienced guitarist who knows scales and stuff yet doesn't have properly developed stamina isn't going to be able to do 5 minutes of continuous trilling as fast as he can.

I know from my experience from learning this song and other taxing songs that without proper stamina, playing at full speed will cause pain!! You have to start slow and build your way up.
Quote by Deep-Sea-Seamus
you said hes "playing it right" when he specifically said in his post that his arm was locked up and it hurt after playing. Not really sure how anyone would read that in anyway other than you telling him its ok to play though the pain mate

Go back up and re-read the previous posts. You will see that its not me that said he's doing it right, it was strat0blaster that said that, and your wrong to condemn him for that because he was referring to playing it with downpicking.

I did not tell him to play through the pain. In fact, I said the exact opposite, I said to play it slow so that there is no pain and then gradually increase speed with practice.
Quote by ravioli123
James, a type of sandwich:

A sandwich that consists of ham, turkey, roast beef, shredded cheese, nacho cheese doritos, and ranch on a toasted bun.
"Hey man lets go get a couple James's for lunch"
#16
Quote by ravioli123
A beginner guitarist isn't going to play stuff that is very taxing, whereas an experienced guitarist who knows scales and stuff yet doesn't have properly developed stamina isn't going to be able to do 5 minutes of continuous trilling as fast as he can.

ideally if the beginner has a good picking technique and knows how to alternate pick, 5 minutes of alt picking shouldn't be an issue. i also disagree as i know i was trying to play as fast as i could when i first started playing. my personal biggest issue was a rotten picking technique and once i started picking properly my issues with speed, stamina and fatigue pretty much became nonexistent.
#17
Quote by ravioli123

Go back up and re-read the previous posts. You will see that its not me that said he's doing it right, it was strat0blaster that said that, and your wrong to condemn him for that because he was referring to playing it with downpicking.


heh I never looked at who posted it I just assumed that since you were contending the point I made that you were him. Also mate, I was right in condemning him. Wherether or not he really believes that its ok to play though tension and pain doesn't really matter, the post was ambiguous and many people would have misinterpreted it. He made no mention of how bad a technique it is to play though pain.
#18
Quote by Deep-Sea-Seamus
heh I never looked at who posted it I just assumed that since you were contending the point I made that you were him. Also mate, I was right in condemning him. Wherether or not he really believes that its ok to play though tension and pain doesn't really matter, the post was ambiguous and many people would have misinterpreted it. He made no mention of how bad a technique it is to play though pain.

He doesn't say anything about playing through the pain in his post.

"You're playin it right - Hetfield does it all with down picking as well."
Thats very obviously referring to the down picking technique used in the song.

"You just have to strengthen your muscles, and that comes from practice.
Maybe slow it down just a bit until it becomes comfortable?"
He is in no way advising to play through the pain, he is actually telling the TS to slow it down to build up the stamina to play this song.

I don't really see how the post could be misinterpreted.

I am also well aware that its really weird that I'm defending his point He just hasn't come back so I though I would put in my two cents lol

Maybe I should become a Lawyer...
Quote by ravioli123
James, a type of sandwich:

A sandwich that consists of ham, turkey, roast beef, shredded cheese, nacho cheese doritos, and ranch on a toasted bun.
"Hey man lets go get a couple James's for lunch"
#19
there's a difference between pain because you're injuring yourself, and the kind of painful ache you get from working your muscles hard... any adult human being should be able to tell the difference between the two... a bit of hard work never hurt anyone

you won't get the kind of downpicking speed needed to play MOP correctly unless you put the time in practice it... start at 140bpm or so, making your chugs nice & even & tight.. then increase your tempo by 5bpm.. continue until you can't keep up then knock it back one notch so you can

this can take weeks, months or maybe even years to get up to the 190bpm of MOP (or whatever the tempo is), but you will get there if you put the work in

remember you need to make the right sound with the minimum of movement... (if you could get the right sound using alternate picking, hell i'd do it... i'm not a masochist, but when you need a downpicked sound, there's no alternative) some people (I personally do) like to anchor their pinky and ring finger near the high E string.. this means your hand isn't floating, which cuts down excessive and unwanted movement

it's not really a case of muscle strength, it's more stamina and the conditioning of those 'fast twitch' muscles that athletes go on about
out of here