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#1
So I'm sure some of you guys have seen guitarists who wrap hair scrunchies around the first fret of the guitar to reduce noise and get a better soloing sound.

Some say it's cheating. I think it's great to use them in gigging circumstances.

What do you all think? Discuss.....
#2
I think it could be a useful tool when practicing at home, but I would never gig with one.
I think it would look tacky.
Plus, if you're gigging, you should probably have muting/soloing down fairly well.
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#3
I don't think it's cheating, really, because it has the benefit of muting unused strings, but also takes away the ability to play open notes. It's not really cheating, persay, but more of a different way to do things.
#4
I'd work on my muting.

But I like to do things properly.
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#5
Quote by profmcnasty
So I'm sure some of you guys have seen guitarists who wrap hair scrunchies around the first fret of the guitar to reduce noise and get a better soloing sound.

Some say it's cheating. I think it's great to use them in gigging circumstances.

What do you all think? Discuss.....


It both is and is not cheating.

A lot of the guitarists who use them are actually perfectly capable of playing cleanly without them but using them in the recording studio is fine. I guess what I'm trying to say is that using one is fine but it should never be a subsitute for good technique.
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#6
You can never ever cheat. That's when it ceases to be music and enters competition territory, and then you're in the 80s, and not the good 80s either.
While you're still learning to mute properly, it can indeed be worth doing, but it's not without its drawbacks. As with anything, you have to weigh the pros against the cons.
#7
Quote by Rock Pig
While you're still learning to mute properly, it can indeed be worth doing


I would say that's exactly when you shouldn't be using one. If you use one when your trying to learn then you'll never know if you're doing it wrong.
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#8
It's not cheating; it's helping. It's hard when you're doing uber-hard 8 finger and 2 thumb tapping with very high gain not to make the other strings vibrate. Sure, it shouldn't be used as a subsitute, but sometimes you just have to, or it might turn into a jumbled mess of guitar strings vibratig.
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#9
Quote by Lil Macker
It's not cheating; it's helping. It's hard when you're doing uber-hard 8 finger and 2 thumb tapping with very high gain not to make the other strings vibrate. Sure, it shouldn't be used as a subsitute, but sometimes you just have to, or it might turn into a jumbled mess of guitar strings vibratig.

Turn your gain down, maybe?
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#10
Quote by Lil Macker
It's not cheating; it's helping. It's hard when you're doing uber-hard 8 finger and 2 thumb tapping with very high gain not to make the other strings vibrate. Sure, it shouldn't be used as a subsitute, but sometimes you just have to, or it might turn into a jumbled mess of guitar strings vibratig.


Good point, actually
#11
Never knew Greg Howe cheated I use from time to time, and yes, it should be used when you know what you are doing otherwise. Also, it can be helpful for changing the sounds of chords and open notes during things such as tapping.
#12
thanks for the replies,

I can solo pretty decently and do without them but idk, i like em
#13
Quote by CJRocker
Never knew Greg Howe cheated

And Guthrie Govan.
#14
I knew a guy who could tap and solo like crazy but only if he had a sock wrapped at the 1st fret. Other wise it sounded like crap. He cheated at first and never learned to do without it. There are plenty of great players who dont need a scrunchy so it isnt that hard to do it right. I would rather spend some time learning to play clean than take a short cut that will handicap later.
#15
Quote by Tackleberry
There are plenty of great players who dont need a scrunchy so it isnt that hard to do it right.

What's your point? They're great players, as you said. Just because they can do it it doesn't mean we mere mortals can.

Still, it IS a compromise, and there's no excuse not to learn to do it properly. Like tapping, it should be used when there's no other way to get the sound you're after.
#16
Quote by Rock Pig
And Guthrie Govan.


And Dave Kilminster.

Quote by Rock Pig
Just because they can do it it doesn't mean we mere mortals can.


Well actually it kind of does, oddly enough they're just people too. It's that kind of attitude that means YOU won't be able to do it but the rest of us will.
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#17
I've thought about this too, and seeing the general thoughts I'd say that nothing can substitute pure technique. That doesn't make it wrong to use one under circumstances that are very difficult like 8 finger tapping, but a handicap is a handicap, you see.
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#18
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
And Dave Kilminster.


Well actually it kind of does, oddly enough they're just people too. It's that kind of attitude that means YOU won't be able to do it but the rest of us will.

Also Jaco + Billy.
Oh, have I told you that my teacher was a student of Dave.K and Guthrie yet ?
#19
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr

Well actually it kind of does, oddly enough they're just people too.

Perhaps I worded that wrong. The general sentiment was intended to be that it takes more effort than it was made out to in the post I quoted.
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
It's that kind of attitude that means YOU won't be able to do it but the rest of us will.

I'm a dedicated learner, my technique is fine and is coming along just fine thank you very much. D:
#20
Quote by Orbit91
Also Jaco + Billy.
Oh, have I told you that my teacher was a student of Dave.K and Guthrie yet ?


..........I need to meet you and your teacher.

Quote by Rock Pig
I'm a dedicated learner, my technique is fine and is coming along just fine thank you very much. D:


Well that's good but attitude is a huge part of learning to play, if you think that something is impossible then it probably will be.
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Last edited by Zaphod_Beeblebr at Nov 21, 2008,
#21
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
..........I need to meet you and your teacher.

FORMER teacher, I'm taught by some Bluesman dude now, I can give you his email if you want though
#22
Quote by Sleaze Disease
Turn your gain down, maybe?

If you're in a black death goth metal band, I highly doubt your gain knob goes below the 11 mark!
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#23
Quote by Orbit91
FORMER teacher, I'm taught by some Bluesman dude now, I can give you his email if you want though


Nah, no point, you're in wales so I can hardly go to him for lessons now, can I? As much as I would like to

Either way, I will meet Guthrie one of these days, next time he plays Chelmsford I'm gonna have a pint with his name on it! With any luck Dave will be there too, he was last time.
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#24
i dont think anybody can "cheat" while playing guitar. I think they are just exploring and being creative. I do a lot of bass tapping songs and i use a scrunchie. not because i suck at muting, its just that when you're tapping out chords with both hands, you cant mute also. Anyways, i say to each his own. If you dont like it, you dont have to use it.
#25
Quote by Santucci218
i dont think anybody can "cheat" while playing guitar. I think they are just exploring and being creative. I do a lot of bass tapping songs and i use a scrunchie. not because i suck at muting, its just that when you're tapping out chords with both hands, you cant mute also. Anyways, i say to each his own. If you dont like it, you dont have to use it.


Stu Hamm, John Myung and Victor Wooten disagree
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#27
anyways, nobody stabs a drummer when they use O rings to eliminate their overtones, why the big gripe?
#28
Quote by Santucci218
anyways, nobody stabs a drummer when they use O rings to eliminate their overtones, why the big gripe?


Well for that example theres little they can do and it's based on how well built and tuned your drum kit is. Guitar is a little different in the sound department, as you have more control. Or that's at least what I think...
"Don't panic, everything is falling neatly out of order"
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#29
right, bad example.

let me try again...

its just a small tool used to make your sound nicer. there really isnt a big deal to it.
#30
Quote by Rock Pig
You can never ever cheat. That's when it ceases to be music and enters competition territory, and then you're in the 80s, and not the good 80s either.
While you're still learning to mute properly, it can indeed be worth doing, but it's not without its drawbacks. As with anything, you have to weigh the pros against the cons.

I never get people like you. It's almost like to people like you, good musicianship and technique are incongruable.

Anyway, using a hair band for muting is only acceptable in studio situations as far as I'm concerned. It never be an excuse for the laziness to learn the techniques.

Quote by Santucci218
i dont think anybody can "cheat" while playing guitar. I think they are just exploring and being creative. I do a lot of bass tapping songs and i use a scrunchie. not because i suck at muting, its just that when you're tapping out chords with both hands, you cant mute also. Anyways, i say to each his own. If you dont like it, you dont have to use it.


How's he doing this then?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkpZ645ztl0
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Last edited by SG Man Forever at Nov 21, 2008,
#31
Quote by Santucci218
really? cause wooten uses a scrunchie.


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=SocYTUn-NQA

Tapping. No scrunchie in use.
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#33
Quote by SG Man Forever
I never get people like you. It's almost like to people like you, good musicianship and technique are incongruable.

Anyway, using a hair band for muting is only acceptable in studio situations as far as I'm concerned. It never be an excuse for the laziness to learn the techniques.


How's he doing this then?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkpZ645ztl0


with distortion you arent going to hear the bad sounds as easily. secondly, who is to say that it wouldnt sound better if he did have a scrunchie? if you can do everything without a scrunchie, thats good. If you need one, thats okay too. I really dont give a **** how the music is made, just that it sounds good.
#34
Quote by Santucci218
with distortion you arent going to hear the bad sounds as easily. secondly, who is to say that it wouldnt sound better if he did have a scrunchie? if you can do everything without a scrunchie, thats good. If you need one, thats okay too. I really dont give a **** how the music is made, just that it sounds good.



Now I KNOW you don't know what you are talking about. The idea that distortion hides mistakes is not true.
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#35
Quote by Santucci218
with distortion you arent going to hear the bad sounds as easily

Distortion actually amplifies the bad sounds.
If you have bad technique, you're going to hear it loud and clear with distortion.
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#36
I saw Victor Wooten a few months ago, he had one on his bass the whole time. Can't say he lacks in technique though, maybe you're just a bit too "proper" for your own good.
#37
Quote by SG Man Forever
Now I KNOW you don't know what you are talking about. The idea that distortion hides mistakes is not true.


why do you think they use the scrunchies?
#38
Quote by Santucci218
why do you think they use the scrunchies?


That doesn't make sense. Chris Broderick doesn't use a scrunch because he has technique. And distortion does not hide mistakes. It makes them much more apparent.
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#39
Quote by SG Man Forever
Now I KNOW you don't know what you are talking about. The idea that distortion hides mistakes is not true.


Gain hides things like dynamic inconsitency, weak picking and bad tone.
Clean hides muting issues.

Practicing with both is crucial for good technique.
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“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


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#40
Quote by SG Man Forever
That doesn't make sense. Chris Broderick doesn't use a scrunch because he has technique. And distortion does not hide mistakes. It makes them much more apparent.


one more time, are you saying that they use scrunchies because they dont have good technique?
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