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#1
Edit: Van halen did not invent tapping, but he made it populair.

Some of you might guessed who I am going to talk about. Some of you might had an idea of him. Yes, the most hated and dreaded guitarist in the world of guitarists

Dragonforces guitarist Herman Li.

Now I'm allmost scared to post this, but I feel I have to get on with it once and for all. Why do people hate him? With the fear of beeing called a guitar hero fanboi I'll be the first one to admit that yes I also play guitar hero, and yes I got to knew the band from there.

I think most guitarists have only heard their guitar hero song : Through the Fire and the Flames. And after hearing most of their songs, I can say: That is DEFINATLY the worst song they made.

Excuses I hear are often; Fast dosn't make good, they play crap live, etc.

About the live thing. Many people are judging them on youtube videos, and most of those videos are recorded with a mobile phone. Let me be the first one to tell you that you won't get quality sounds from it. Espescially not at the volume level at their concerts.

Secondly I hear "fast dosn't make good". Why is it that many of the most populair rock/metal songs ever to be created has had fast guitar parts? Is it infact jealousy perhaps?

Then I hear the "they spend all their time doing stupid pacman game sounds". Yes! They're finding new ways to create sounds on guitar? Whats the problem?

Remember the 70's? You couldn't really inspire people with guitar, cause all the crazy things had been done prior (Hendrix etc) and guitar kinda went to a rhytm instrument.

Then BOOM we had this Eddie Van Halen creating new techniques and new ways to play the guitar. Tapping, volume swells, whammy-crazy stuff, wah, all that kind of ****, and people thought he was a god. Now we have Herman Li trying to utilize all the possibilities in guitars, but people just look at him as a retarded idiot trying to play faster then he can.

For good dragonforce songs, try out: Valley of the Damned, Fury of the Storm.


TLDR version: Is Herman Li really that bad?
Last edited by Danyg at Nov 23, 2008,
#3
1. He fast forwards his music...
2. He's a tard.
3. EVH DID NOT invent that...
4. Wrong forum...try the pit, although you will get eaten alive.

EDIT: 5. FAST DOES NOT ALWAYS MAKE GOOD and if you don't know that than you're probably going to be one of those Noobs who try to show off shredding on the chromatic scale...
Last edited by Flariduh at Nov 23, 2008,
#4
guitar went to a rhythm instrument between hendrix and EVH? good one...
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#5
Quote by 035036503530
EVH didn't create tapping, volume swells, wah or whammy abuse...

wtf is wrong with you?



He was one of the guitarists to make all those techniques famous.
Poop.


Yes, poop.
#6
Aww i used to be just like you
But then i started to feel bad for Sam Totman because herman li seems to bully him. And no one likes a bully


P.S. i'm still a dragonforce nerd though
#7
you are clearly uneducated
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#8
Do you really have nothing better to do than hate on Herman Li?


You could've at least started hating on Synyster Gates or something.


Nail two birds with one stone.
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#9
Quote by 035036503530
EVH didn't create tapping, volume swells, wah or whammy abuse...

wtf is wrong with you?


+1 althought he did kind of bring tapping to main stream rock

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9nrCm0BPYw

listen to the guitar solo. and btw this is pro shot footage. i like a bit of D-force but come on they suck live. they even admitted in guitar world to playing a solo at least 30 times and cutting it in pro-tools.

if your into ridiculous speed just go listen to MAB. at least he can actually play the **** he writes and hes actually faster than herman lol.

I have to admit though i do like the D-force drummer he has some mad skills
Last edited by jackofclubs at Nov 23, 2008,
#10
Quote by Flariduh
1. He fast forwards his music...
2. He's a tard.
3. EVH DID NOT invent that...
4. Wrong forum...try the pit, although you will get eaten alive.


1. No
2. How do you know
3. Yes he did
4. Sorry
#11
learn some guitar history before claiming EVH invented tapping, wah use and all that '****'


and dragonforce is not pleasurable to listen to at all... and i have an open mind about listening to different music genres
#12
Quote by MattAnderson111
He was one of the guitarists to make all those techniques famous.



Exacly! Thats what I mean. And Zakk Wylde diddn't create the harmonics on the low E string, but it was him who made them famous as "Wylde harmonics"
#13
035036503530 is right EVH didn't create any of that he just used it and perfected some of it. as for Herman Li, no he is not a bad guitarist in SOME aspects, and believe me i would be the first to say Dragonforce sucks but he does have an idea of what he is doing. he can play guitar, sure he waste time doing pac man **** but he CAN play. as for all the Dragonforce songs Danyg you are a dumb bitch everyone of there songs sound exactly the ****ing same with exception of somewhat different lyrics.
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#14
Quote by jam phan420
learn some guitar history before claiming EVH invented tapping, wah use and all that '****'


and dragonforce is not pleasurable to listen to at all... and i have an open mind about listening to different music genres



EVH diddn't. Jimmy Page used it way before him. But it was him who made it populair.

I don't mind people who don't like Dragonforce's music, but people who hate Herman Li for apparently, no reason at all?
Last edited by Danyg at Nov 23, 2008,
#15
Quote by BlackDog55
035036503530 is right EVH didn't create any of that he just used it and perfected some of it. as for Herman Li, no he is not a bad guitarist in SOME aspects, and believe me i would be the first to say Dragonforce sucks but he does have an idea of what he is doing. he can play guitar, sure he waste time doing pac man **** but he CAN play. as for all the Dragonforce songs Danyg you are a dumb bitch everyone of there songs sound exactly the ****ing same with exception of somewhat different lyrics.


Weird. I completely agree with everything you say, and suddenly I'm a dumb bitch.. ay?
#16
how can you really say one man invented tapping, volume swells etc. he used a lot of it, but did not create it. as for herman li (or REE as he pronounces it), who cares, even if he can make a lot of pacman noises, he has mastered the "hey im a major douche bag" noise.....it sounds like the solo part in TTFAF
#17
Quote by Danyg
1. No
2. How do you know
3. Yes he did
4. Sorry



1. yes.
2. its obvious
3. Ace Frehley was tapping long before EVH
4. you should be.

BoN
"A love pirate ? I am no love pirate. What do they mean by that ?"
#18
I dont hate Dragonforce
I think they're a mediocre band
they're studio albums are alright, I'm entertained by them.

but even for their Genre (as they pretty much fit into Power Metal) they are simply not as good as many other bands out there)

I do give them credit for being as mainstream as they are and making people familiar with the genre.

Now go out there and look up Savatage, Sonata Arctica, Circle II Circle, Jon Oliva's Pain

and then you'll find some truly incredible musicians of the style.


back to Dragon Force

I'm sorry
The idea of them sucking live is NOT just from cell phone youtube videos
its from the fact that they are technically faulty live.

Even in Herman Li's instructional videos
his sweeping is sloppy and his picking is uneven.


Not to mention when I saw them live they were not even always in sync....at all.


TO SETTLE THIS NOW

EDDIE DID NOT INVENT TAPPING
HE DID BRING IT TO THE FOREFRONT

BUT THE CONCEPT OF TAPPING CAN GO BACK TO THE 1800'S (AT LEAST) WHEN PAGANINNI DID A SIMILAR STYLE TECHNIC ON THE VIOLIN

ALSO, THERE WERE GUITAR PLAYERS AS EARLY AS THE 1950S SUCH AS BENNY KESSEL WHO USED TAPPING TO PLAY JAZZ AND COUNTRY STYLES.


My apologies for the caps, but I had to get that out there.

so stop talking about EVH and get back to asnwerings why you dont like Herman Li
which is what teh TS was asking for.
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Last edited by NaivexLi at Nov 23, 2008,
#20
Quote by NaivexLi
I dont hate Dragonforce
I think they're a mediocre band
they're studio albums are alright, I'm entertained by them.

but even for their Genre (as they pretty much fit into Power Metal) they are simply not as good as many other bands out there)

I do give them credit for being as mainstream as they are and making people familiar with the genre.

Now go out there and look up Savatage, Sonata Arctica, Circle II Circle, Jon Oliva's Pain

and then you'll find some truly incredible musicians of the style.


back to Dragon Force

I'm sorry
The idea of them sucking live is NOT just from cell phone youtube videos
its from the fact that they are technically faulty live.

Even in Herman Li's instructional videos
his sweeping is sloppy and his picking is uneven.


Not to mention when I saw them live they were not even always in sync....at all.


I am VERY angry that you didn't even mention Angra.


What's wrong with you noob?
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


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#22
Quote by Danyg
1. No
2. How do you know
3. Yes he did
4. Sorry



Quote by vegetable-jim
you are clearly uneducated



I think the second quote corresponds with the first quote.
Last edited by Flariduh at Nov 23, 2008,
#23
dimebag didnt invent squeals o wait he did
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#24
EVH never used a wah much, and he wasn't the first to do volume swells, but he definitely did populatrize tapping and wang bar wanking. I think most people think dragonforce suck more than they do, and "fire and the flames" is not one of their better songs, but I certainly wouldn't compare Li to EVH. He's decent, but even if videogame noises are sort of new (if you ignore that Buckethead and Tom Morello have been making them since the early nineties) they're far from the pinnacle of creativity and self-expression, especially the way Dragonforce uses them. The issue with the live videos is not bad sound, but that they supposedly play sloppily, something I don't want to go on youtube and confirm or refute. I thought they were pretty good when I saw them play three years ago, but I was a 14yo noob at the time.

I would rank Li and Totman below the guitarists for the better pop-metalcore bands out there (i.e. Trivium, A7X) but I don't think that the cutting edge of guitar playing is anywhere near mainstream metal these days, except perhaps Mastodon.
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#25
Quote by peebo1845
1. yes.
2. its obvious
3. Ace Frehley was tapping long before EVH
4. you should be.

BoN


1. No. But I guess you've never been in a studio? I see. In a studio you have unlimited trys to do the solo as fast as possible. Live you have only 1. Reason why people think Herman Li speeds his songs, is that he can't play them full speed live. That is because he only has 1 try.

2. Obvious? You've never met him, and never talked to him?

3. And so did Jimmy Page, but he made it mainstream

4. Yeah, I diddn't know. Sorry.
Last edited by Danyg at Nov 23, 2008,
#26
The youtube videos everyone is judging them on are high quality professionally shot concert footage, and tv show appearances.

Let me educate you.

This is Dragonforce on Attack of the Show(it was this year)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PtsLFiob0o

This is Dragonforce live and is shot by a professional video crew.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtezUAoVwNI
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#27
Quote by Danyg
EVH diddn't. Jimi Page used it way before him. But it was him who made it populair.

I don't mind people who don't like Dragonforce's music, but people who hate Herman Li for apparently, no reason at all?


Jimi Page?
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#28
TS just delete the thread before more people see that you're uneducated.
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#29
Quote by Danyg
1. No. But I guess you've never been in a studio? I see. In a studio you have unlimited trys to do the solo as fast as possible. Live you have only 1. Reason why people think Herman Li speeds his songs, is that he can't play them full speed live. That is because he only has 1 try.

2. Obvious? You've never met him, and never talked to him?

3. And so did Jimi Page, but he made it mainstream

4. Yeah, I diddn't know. Sorry.


1. Anyone who speeds up their licks plain sucks.

2. It IS obvious...look at his interviews on Metal Hammer TV...oh..what's that? Oh that's right, guys like you read Kerrang, where Muse are emo and BMTH are punk...

3. Define mainstream.

4. Damn straight.

/rant
#30
Quote by Danyg
1. No. But I guess you've never been in a studio? I see. In a studio you have unlimited trys to do the solo as fast as possible. Live you have only 1. Reason why people think Herman Li speeds his songs, is that he can't play them full speed live. That is because he only has 1 try.

2. Obvious? You've never met him, and never talked to him?

3. And so did Jimi Page, but he made it mainstream

4. Yeah, I diddn't know. Sorry.


1. Have you? You don't get 'unlimited' tries unless you have 'unlimited' income. How come other guitar players who play just as fast can play all of their solos live then? Dragonforce has no excuse for their sloppy live work. If John Petrucci and Jason Becker could play their stuff live, then I can't see why Dragonforce can't.

2. Neither have you.


3. Who's Jimi Page? You should look up Jimmy Page, Great guitar player.
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#31
Ive seen dragonforce live, and Im by no means a fan, but unlike the ****tty youtube videos they did play an awesome show.
#32
i seen dragonforce 3 times and i hung out with them for a while and they are pretty cool guys, dave and herman are very cool people and if you hate dragonforce fair enuf, but is that based on their music, personallity or your jealousy?
#33
Quote by 2mins2midnite
i seen dragonforce 3 times and i hung out with them for a while and they are pretty cool guys, dave and herman are very cool people and if you hate dragonforce fair enuf, but is that based on their music, personallity or your jealousy?


no one hates them, the queer little DF fanboys just can't get past the fact that sane people are bored by Dragonforce.

again, Devin Townsend's pinkie finger > the power metal genre
#34
Quote by 035036503530
1. Anyone who speeds up their licks plain sucks.

2. It IS obvious...look at his interviews on Metal Hammer TV...oh..what's that? Oh that's right, guys like you read Kerrang, where Muse are emo and BMTH are punk...

3. Define mainstream.

4. Damn straight.

/rant


1. I 100% agree! Which is why Herman Li dosn't suck

2. Weird, I saw the interviews, and got the exact opposite.

3. That something (in this example tapping) is known by a couple of guitar players, but then goes mainstream, meaning it's "basic" knowledge.

4. Let's end this, and focus on the 3 first.
#35
Quote by 2mins2midnite
i see dragonforce 3 tymes n i hug out wif dem for a wile n dey r pretti kewl guise dave n herman ri iz kewl ppl n if u h8 dragnforce u r a nub n ur jeluz.



Stupid argument.


You can say that about anybody. That's like me saying that you hate Britney Spears because you're jealous.


And so what if you met Dragonforce? (I highly doubt you did anyways) It's not going to change anybody's opinion.
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#36
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
1. Have you? You don't get 'unlimited' tries unless you have 'unlimited' income. How come other guitar players who play just as fast can play all of their solos live then? Dragonforce has no excuse for their sloppy live work. If John Petrucci and Jason Becker could play their stuff live, then I can't see why Dragonforce can't.

2. Neither have you.


3. Who's Jimi Page? You should look up Jimmy Page, Great guitar player.


1. Of course you don't get "unlimited" trys in a studio. But you get ALOT more then you get live. Reason why other guitarists play better, is cause they're technical better. I do not endorse Herman, I just ask why everyone hates him.

2. Nope, which is why I am not harrasing him

3. Jimmy Page then. And guitar playing has alot to do with memorising other guitarists name, so thanks for the compliment......
#37
TS:

Fast is good, BUT SO IS SLOW.
It's not jealousy, it's people wanting not only physical sheer speed talents, but compositional talent, and talent in other techniques that shred often leaves behind.

As for the live sucks because of cell phones excuses...

Cell phones, no matter how bad they may be, cannot make the sounds of the wrong notes in the wrong order.

...oh, and the reason a lot of people don't like Herman Li..?

...he isn't actually that good. There are many far better speed guitarists.


Personally, I do like Dragonforce, but they tend to be over-rated because, due to guitar hero (and other factors) people have heard of shred/speed through Dragonforce alone. They've never really listened to Petrucci, or Govan or so many others.

(But the mario sounds are win.)
#38
Quote by Danyg
1. I 100% agree! Which is why Herman Li dosn't suck

2. Weird, I saw the interviews, and got the exact opposite.

3. That something (in this example tapping) is known by a couple of guitar players, but then goes mainstream, meaning it's "basic" knowledge.

4. Let's end this, and focus on the 3 first.


1. Actually, that's why he does.
2. Watch one where they aren't reading answers off a teleprompter.
3. More than a couple guitar players tapped before EVH came along, but your argument is invalid anyway as you said he "created" tapping and wah
4. Go play TTFAF on beginner a few more times.
#39
Quote by ealtdharkon
TS:

Fast is good, BUT SO IS SLOW.
It's not jealousy, it's people wanting not only physical sheer speed talents, but compositional talent, and talent in other techniques that shred often leaves behind.

As for the live sucks because of cell phones excuses...

Cell phones, no matter how bad they may be, cannot make the sounds of the wrong notes in the wrong order.

...oh, and the reason a lot of people don't like Herman Li..?

...he isn't actually that good. There are many far better speed guitarists.


Personally, I do like Dragonforce, but they tend to be over-rated because, due to guitar hero (and other factors) people have heard of shred/speed through Dragonforce alone. They've never really listened to Petrucci, or Govan or so many others.

(But the mario sounds are win.)


Everything this guy says is true (no sarcasm/irony)

I agree 100% with you
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