#1
Hi there fellow musicians!

I got a little question for you that is haunting my brain that I hope someone could please answer.
Well it's about octaves.

A guitar has.

E 0-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12 back to the E on the 12th fret. That is a octave right? But is it a one octave distance or several.

For example a piano

EF(F#)G(G#)A(A#)BC(C#)D(D#) letters in ( ) are the black bricks in this example.

They all go in a straight line from the lowest octave to highest.

But to me it seems that on the E string on the guitar the open E is not one octave from the 12th fret E. I think there are more between.

I hope you guys understand what I'm trying to say.

Cheers!

Yours truly ;D
Last edited by Schneeballkrieg at Nov 23, 2008,
#2
No, it's only one octave. From open e to 12th fret e, is a single octave, due to the chromatic scale.
Unless you want to try going into under and overtones, which get into harmonics, which I don't think you want to get into.
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#3
It's one octave. Count the notes on the piano. 12 notes between them, each a half step apart. Each fret on a guitar is a half step, ergo, the piano octave is the same distance as the one on the guitar.
#5
An octave is actually the distance between two notes with the same name. It's 12 semitones, as you can see by the frets on your guitar.

And no, there is only one other E between the two open strings, and there is either one or two E's above your high E depending on whether you have a 22 or 24 fret neck.

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#6
i sure agree. 1 octave above.
but i'ts not nice saying you can give a proof....and not giving it.
so please-enlighten us
#7
No proof is needed.
But what is weird is that the open E is dark and the 12th fret E is a bit lighter (of course) thats how its supposed to be.
But how come that the open A sounds darker then 12th fret E but not as dark as the open E. Shouldnt the next octave be the A string? You know what I mean? The A string sounds dark enough to come in between the open E and the 12th E fret.
#8
Quote by Schneeballkrieg
No proof is needed.
But what is weird is that the open E is dark and the 12th fret E is a bit lighter (of course) thats how its supposed to be.
But how come that the open A sounds darker then 12th fret E but not as dark as the open E. Shouldnt the next octave be the A string? You know what I mean? The A string sounds dark enough to come in between the open E and the 12th E fret.


It has to do with the gauge of the string and the vibrations at certain lengths. E XII is bright because there is less of the string to vibrate that open E.
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#9
Quote by fusionsan
It has to do with the gauge of the string and the vibrations at certain lengths. E XII is bright because there is less of the string to vibrate that open E.


Yes but that is the mechanics. What I want to know is why isnt the beggining of the A string in the middle of the E and the 12th fret on the E string. Because the octaves are supposed to go from dark to light, the start of the A string is darker then the 12th fret on the E string. I understand the mechanical guitar stuff, the theory is what bothers me.
#10
Quote by Schneeballkrieg
Yes but that is the mechanics. What I want to know is why isnt the beggining of the A string in the middle of the E and the 12th fret on the E string. Because the octaves are supposed to go from dark to light, the start of the A string is darker then the 12th fret on the E string. I understand the mechanical guitar stuff, the theory is what bothers me.


Are you talking about timbre here? Or pitch? If you mean timbre; its mechanical. If you mean pitch; your open A rings the same pitch as E V. Open A is within the octave of open E to E XII
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#11
the 'A' string open is the same pitch as 5th fret 'E' string
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#12
Listen a octave is from darker to lower sound right?
Open E to 12th fret on the E is a octave.
The 12th fret sounds lighter then the open E but not as light as the first 11 notes on the A string. So if we go from darker to lighter the order should be.
Open E -> First 11 notes on the A string -> 12th note on the E string to the 24th.

It's very hard to explain argh!
#13
The E and A strings are not an octave apart, they are only a perfect fourth apart.
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#14
Quote by Schneeballkrieg
Listen a octave is from darker to lower sound right?
Open E to 12th fret on the E is a octave.
The 12th fret sounds lighter then the open E but not as light as the first 11 notes on the A string. So if we go from darker to lighter the order should be.
Open E -> First 11 notes on the A string -> 12th note on the E string to the 24th.

It's very hard to explain argh!

you are literally speaking jibberish. do you have Synesthesia or something? Do not use the terms darker and brighter when talking about basic theory. stick with the terms higher and lower, in relation to pitches.
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#15
Quote by Schneeballkrieg
Yes but that is the mechanics. What I want to know is why isnt the beggining of the A string in the middle of the E and the 12th fret on the E string. Because the octaves are supposed to go from dark to light, the start of the A string is darker then the 12th fret on the E string. I understand the mechanical guitar stuff, the theory is what bothers me.
If I understand you properly, it seems your just asking why the guitar was made non-linear as opposed to linear like a piano. Going low to high, down, up, dark, bright, however you want to say it. If that's kinda what your asking then I would say that someone(might of been tarrega) just decided on that tuning to be most conducive to voicing chords. Or else you would get a 11fret guitar and every open string would be E, octave, octave, etc. And it would be impossible to play a chord.
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#16
Quote by Schneeballkrieg
No proof is needed.
But what is weird is that the open E is dark and the 12th fret E is a bit lighter (of course) thats how its supposed to be.
But how come that the open A sounds darker then 12th fret E but not as dark as the open E. Shouldnt the next octave be the A string? You know what I mean? The A string sounds dark enough to come in between the open E and the 12th E fret.

That's because the note of the open a string DOES come between the open E and the twelth fret E, at the 5th fret to be precise
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#17
The guitar is not a piano. Pitch on a piano only moves horizontally. The farther right, the higher the sound. The strings on a guitar move in pitch horizontally and vertically. As you move down the frets and the strings, the notes get higher. These overlap. Imagine the strings as a set of keyboards that overlap, if that helps. As far as pitch goes,


E------------------
B------------------
G------------------
D------------------
A------------------
E-0-1-3-5-7-8-10-12


is the same thing as


E---------------------
B---------------------
G---------------------
D-0-2-----------------
A-0-2-3---------------
E-0-1-3---------------
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#18
what is te first key of a piano? is it an e?

uhm..... the low E string of a guitar... if you hit it open(0) it is an e note
then if you go up to the twelvth fret(12) and hit the harmonic or just the note on 12 it is yet again E. so if you hit open E on the low e string and open e on the high e string it is 2 octaves higher. like hitting open e and going to the 24th fret. that is 2 octaves. but if you hit the open e (0) then hit the harmoni,c or hit 12, it is one(1) octave.
#19
another example:

guitar

low e string is represented in tab:

e|-0-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14 ext

now in note:

e|-e-f-f#-g-g#-a-a#-b-c-c#-d-d#-e-f-f#-ext

that was 1 through 14 on each part.
everytime it repeats its one octave

and when you move up a string you start the pattern over on that string starting grom the name of that string

ex:

a|-0-1-2-3-4-5-6-ext
e|-0-1-2-3-4-5-6-ext

a|-a-a#-b-c-c#-d-d#
e|-e-f-f#-g-g#-a-a#

o=open string and both start on open

do i help at all???
#20
the 12th fret to the bridge is exactly half the legnth of the open string, this means the note will be exactly twice as high in other words one octace higher
#21
Quote by Bucketheadroolz
what is te first key of a piano? is it an e?

uhm..... the low E string of a guitar... if you hit it open(0) it is an e note
then if you go up to the twelvth fret(12) and hit the harmonic or just the note on 12 it is yet again E. so if you hit open E on the low e string and open e on the high e string it is 2 octaves higher. like hitting open e and going to the 24th fret. that is 2 octaves. but if you hit the open e (0) then hit the harmoni,c or hit 12, it is one(1) octave.



Mostly right man, but between you low E and High E there is 3 octaves.

Edit: And the lowest note on Modern full size pianos and keyboards is A0
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Last edited by fusionsan at Nov 24, 2008,
#22
Maybe you're confusing timbre, a note on the low E will sound heavier/darker (not lower) than the same note on the A string. It's just different proportions of overtones in relation to the fundamental, but the fundamental is still the same (or is in theory at least).
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#23
E|| F | F#| G | G#| A | A#| B | C | C#| D | D#| E | F |
B|| C | C#| D | D#| E | F | F#| G | G#| A | A#| B | C |
G|| G#| A | A#| B | C | C#| D | D#| E | F | F#| G | G#|
D|| D#| [B]E[/B] | F | F#| G | G#| A | A#| B | C | C#| D | D#|
A|| A#| B | C | C#| D | D#| [B]E[/B] | F | F#| G | G#| A | A#|
E|| F | F#| G | G#| A | A#| B | C | C#| D | D#| [B]E[/B] | F |
^   ^       ^       ^       ^       ^           ^
O   1       3       5       7       9           12 - fret


These are the notes on the fretboard. The 3 bold E notes (12th fret on the E string, 7th fret on the A string, and 2nd fret on the D string) are all the same E with the same frequency. They are each one octave higher than open low E string and they are also one octave below the open high E string.

In total there are 4 different E note frequencies from lowest to highest they are...
1. Open low E open string.
2. The bold notes above
3. Open high E string
4. 12th fret high E string.

Because the first note and last note are both E there are three octaves between the lowest and highest E.
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Last edited by 20Tigers at Nov 24, 2008,
#24
Just take 1 note and 12 semitones higher is the octave.

If someone says playing in octaves, they could also mean the octave of the octave etc.

If someone says play within the octave, they mean all the notes between the original note and the octave of that note.

That's it nothing else!!


An octave is an interval. And an octave interval is the 12 note away from the original note. Then it starts all over again: minor 2nd major 2nd minor 3rd etc. etc.

If u go from the original note beyond the 12 step, you are going into another "register". In classical music, these registers are what u probably have heard before: tenor, baritone, alt etc. etc.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Nov 24, 2008,
#25
Quote by fusionsan
Mostly right man, but between you low E and High E there is 3 octaves.

Edit: And the lowest note on Modern full size pianos and keyboards is A0


Between the low E and high E is only 2 octaves. You have low E then an octave up would be the E on the 2nd fret D string. Then the 2nd octave up is the 5th fret on the B string which is also the open high E. 3 octaves from low E is the 12th fret on the high E
Andy
#26
Quote by getchapull12
Between the low E and high E is only 2 octaves. You have low E then an octave up would be the E on the 2nd fret D string. Then the 2nd octave up is the 5th fret on the B string which is also the open high E. 3 octaves from low E is the 12th fret on the high E
Andy


**** i have no idea what the hell i was talking about. My bad for spouting bad information.
thanks for the heads up.
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Last edited by fusionsan at Nov 24, 2008,