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#1
I don't know if anyone else uses Guitar Pro to document their riffs or songs, but I had found that when not around my band, it's a good way to write down your riffs, try out harmonies, etc. That being said, I found that it can also warp your creativity, and become a crutch. My other band members have created songs with the aid of Guitar Pro as well as without, and I find that in 95% of the cases, the ones from Guitar Pro ALWAYS suck when played live. I try to keep my material FAR away from Guitar Pro now, and I encourage my band members to do the same. Does anyone else have any feelings on Guitar Pro and Creativity? I'm interested to see what everyone else thinks. Thanks for reading.

Will

::type
It's not about what you've heard- it's about what you're hearing.
#2
I agree, that guitar pro can hinder someone.
but I mainly use it when I'm trying to find what scale my songs fit into
I know, it's lazy, but it's quicker!
#3
its good to write a bulk of the song, but i dont think u should ever leave a guitar pro file as the final, also i think guitar pro limits writing solos the most

so it has its ups and downs, as long as u dont overdo using it, it is quite handy
#5
I tend to make things that I can't actually play. That is problem number one.
#6
thats a good thing bro, you cant let your own technical inhibitions stop you from considering the possibilities
i have explored the sea
#7
Quote by Deep-Sea-Seamus
thats a good thing bro, you cant let your own technical inhibitions stop you from considering the possibilities



Very true, but it gets frustrating when I make a whole song that I can't even being to touch.
#8
Quote by NemX162
Very true, but it gets frustrating when I make a whole song that I can't even being to touch.


I couldn't agree more. What's worse is I have a notorious habit of overcomplicating things that start out clean and simple, and all of that coupled with the impurity of using Guitar Pro during song writing was just too much to bear, not to mention that everything I used Guitar Pro to help me write ended up sound cheesy. :-p Now when someone tries to show me anything on Guitar Pro, I fly off the handle and start talking ****. I can't help it. lol
It's not about what you've heard- it's about what you're hearing.
Last edited by TechMetalWill at Nov 25, 2008,
#9
Quote by TechMetalWill
I couldn't agree more. What's worse is I have a notorious habit of overcomplicating things that start out clean and simple, and all of that coupled with the impurity of using Guitar Pro during song writing was just too much to bear, not to mention that everything I used Guitar Pro to help me write ended up sound cheesy. :-p



Yeah that's a big problem of mine too. It's also hard to get some strumming patterns down right in GP if they have triplets or dotted notes.
#10
I used to for a while, but quit because it takes too long to program the note timing. I still use it for scale diagrams.
#11
Quote by zigslip
its good to write a bulk of the song, but i dont think u should ever leave a guitar pro file as the final, also i think guitar pro limits writing solos the most

so it has its ups and downs, as long as u dont overdo using it, it is quite handy

+1

Although I am capable of it, I find it very tedious trying to work out the exact rythm of everything I write.

Also, I find that if I really can't be bothered it works out better if I record the solo, rather than simplify it into GP.
#12
Guitarpro doesn't consider the sound and nuances of a guitar.

At least 80% of the cool guitarrifs are cool because of that pinch harmonic, or that certain muting, or how the phrasing is done. Guitarpro won't make up for this, and ur playing style won't be incorporated. To try out harmonies, it's cool. But riffs wil be based on notes, and not the sound of ur guitar. It works decent for instruments that don't have direct string contact, like a piano. But even then, the feel, flow or that little swing won't be in there. It can imitate grace note and hammerons, but it won't have that natural feel. Just like on guitar, the same note on different strings have different timbres, and this also affects alot. Open strings d on a guitar has a totally different function and timbre then 5th fret A-string D note, but in gp they sound the same.

Not to begin with dynamics or how different gain settings affect the riffs.

I mean a metal guitar riff played on a piano ussually sounds totally ****. It's all about the sound of the guitar.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Nov 25, 2008,
#13
I use guitar pro to write out riffs that I come up with while improvising or jamming, but writing riffs out without playing them might not produce good results.

Guitar pro is important for laying out song structure, you can visually gauge the motion or the direction of the song, it's far more than just riffing and soloing, you don't need GP for that!
#14
Guitar Pro is EXACTLY THE SAME as simply writing tabs on paper, oor on powertab for that matter. If you think Guitar Pro is impeding your creativity then you need to A) Learn how to use the programme better, and B) Look at other things that could be hindering your creativity....like yourself, your band mates or even the music you listen to.
#15
Quote by KennghisTron
Guitar Pro is EXACTLY THE SAME as simply writing tabs on paper, oor on powertab for that matter. If you think Guitar Pro is impeding your creativity then you need to A) Learn how to use the programme better, and B) Look at other things that could be hindering your creativity....like yourself, your band mates or even the music you listen to.

This.
#16
Quote by KennghisTron
Guitar Pro is EXACTLY THE SAME as simply writing tabs on paper, oor on powertab for that matter. If you think Guitar Pro is impeding your creativity then you need to A) Learn how to use the programme better, and B) Look at other things that could be hindering your creativity....like yourself, your band mates or even the music you listen to.


i agree w/ this.. i like using my GP.. this is where i composed all my original backing tracks.. but when it comes to recording.. im using this program in aligning my midis and sequences.. its better to document the notes..

check my 1st signature below in browsing my original instrumental songs using guitar pro as my backing tracks..
#17
I think that Guitar Pro can be useful if your trying to write your own song. However it can quite often sound different on Guitar Pro tpo real life, so don't get too caught up in it.
#18
Quote by KennghisTron
Guitar Pro is EXACTLY THE SAME as simply writing tabs on paper, oor on powertab for that matter. If you think Guitar Pro is impeding your creativity then you need to A) Learn how to use the programme better, and B) Look at other things that could be hindering your creativity....like yourself, your band mates or even the music you listen to.


I totally agree with you. Back there, when I was beginning to play guitar i would tab my ideas on paper. In GuitarPro, I can write down rhythm too, and add multiple tracks.
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#19
If you only write on guitarpro, your totally missing the sonic essence of the guitar.

Why u think some simple riff sometiems sounds so badass irl, but **** on gp.

A bit of reverse psychology here:

If u check out a DT song in gp, does it sound as good as the original song? Imo it sound totally different. And the solo's sound like a standard gp guy. There's no dynamic or personaility to it.

Another 1 for you. Why do u have so many people that can play a piece by a guitarplayer, but it still doesn't sound the same as the original, even though he plays exactly the same notes.

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#20
Quote by xxdarrenxx
If u check out a DT song in gp, does it sound as good as the original song? Imo it sound totally different. And the solo's sound like a standard gp guy. There's no dynamic or personaility to it.
Because improvisation>prewritten solo.

Quote by xxdarrenxx
Another 1 for you. Why do u have so many people that can play a piece by a guitarplayer, but it still doesn't sound the same as the original, even though he plays exactly the same notes.
Because they have a different amp, different guitar and different backing band.

As long as you make sure each part sounds awesome on it's own when sung/played on your guitar, I fail to see the downsides to writing with guitar-pro. If you hate midi sounds, go out and buy a soundcard that supports soundfonts.
#21
Quote by demonofthenight

As long as you make sure each part sounds awesome on it's own when sung/played on your guitar, I fail to see the downsides to writing with guitar-pro. If you hate midi sounds, go out and buy a soundcard that supports soundfonts.


I disagree, I still find gilbert playing extremely well on a random amp or even on a guitar other then his signature.

I'm talking about dynamics or the feel/groove/timing. It's sometimes that u hit a note a 32th note earlier then normal just to get a more rushed feel and stuff. That's timing. If u play guitar, this goes for most people subconsciously.

Try to slow a cool solo down to like 1\16th of it's speed, and u will hear these things. It's very funny to listen to it, you can hear that they are not exactly on the beat. And i came to the conclusion that this is what separates humans from a computer, or what is popular reffered to as feel.

Maybe the best example is classical work, which almost swares by different tempo throughout. The tempo's are so feel-based that it would take 1000+ edits in gp to get the exact tempo flow down. Let alone write something like that in a tab program

General phrases are, you sound like a robot. Or it sounds "stale".

Some famous jazz musician quoted;
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.

But I found out that swing doesn't only occur as the popular "blues swing". But even in solo lines, you swing a little bit (very little, but it's there). I believe this is called "Good timing" or "Feel".

Sometimes something doesn't swing at all, like the intro of paradigm shift by LTE. This I also call a feel. The feel being it's so dead on beat that it really gives it that aggressive/straight-in-ur-face sound.

What I mean to say is, Gp only has 1 feel, and that's the prewritten basic algorhythm that it works on. A human has 100 or maybe 1000's of different "algorhythms" in their mind/body.

If you only write in guitarpro, you will not get out that GP feel. It's good to try out stuff, or to write out the notes. But to write a song (song I see as everything including feel/sound and style) in it, is impossible. Sure u might like ur own compositions on it over time, but that's because ur brain makes it swing.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Nov 29, 2008,
#22
Quote by xxdarrenxx
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.
lol, that's an Ellington song. I love that song and I can play that opening piano riff on guitar for my jazz band.

Anyway, to psych-analyse myself, I know you're right, but I don't want you to be right. It means theres a part of music I can't describe by using musical terminology.

I guess that's (your argument) why electronic music will never be as good as performed music, which is another problem I have with your argument because I'll most likely never gain control over my own orchestra.

Well seeing as it'll be a long time before I write music for a band, I'll continue writing on guitar-pro and fl.
#23
Guitar pro is good for keeping tack of riffs
I have a riff library of about 30 gps right now
#24
Quote by demonofthenight
lol, that's an Ellington song. I love that song and I can play that opening piano riff on guitar for my jazz band.

Anyway, to psych-analyse myself, I know you're right, but I don't want you to be right. It means theres a part of music I can't describe by using musical terminology.

I guess that's (your argument) why electronic music will never be as good as performed music, which is another problem I have with your argument because I'll most likely never gain control over my own orchestra.

Well seeing as it'll be a long time before I write music for a band, I'll continue writing on guitar-pro and fl.


Electronic music is made by input of an instrument. A midi controller, which is controlled by a human

That's why alot of "inputted" electronic music that people make sound without a flow. Like u can hear for example: 4 patterns beat then 4 patterns beat and strings then 2 beats this etc.; If u know what I mean. They get around this because alot of studio's and high end programs have "Humanizer" effects with very advanced algorhythms, to mimic a human, sorta speaking.

Some electronic music works by quantatized input, because that's what they aim for. A dead on tempo beat for dance use. Of course a bit of beer on a night out in a club will make u sway anyway

Point is, we're talking about FL and that kind of programs, which are advanced. Gp is not advanced.

Btw I love electronic music: Aphex twin, the prodigy, Tangerine Dream and a few others. And I listen to alot of Ambient lounge cd's. I also like Sven Vath. My country has some of the best dj's in the world :P

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Nov 29, 2008,
#25
Quote by xxdarrenxx
If you only write on guitarpro, your totally missing the sonic essence of the guitar.

Why u think some simple riff sometiems sounds so badass irl, but **** on gp.

A bit of reverse psychology here:

If u check out a DT song in gp, does it sound as good as the original song? Imo it sound totally different. And the solo's sound like a standard gp guy. There's no dynamic or personaility to it.

Another 1 for you. Why do u have so many people that can play a piece by a guitarplayer, but it still doesn't sound the same as the original, even though he plays exactly the same notes.


So how do you notate your songs?

I'm not MAKING music in GP, only writing it down, so I could remember.
Quote by Johnljones7443
my neew year reslosutions are not too drikn as much lol.

happy new yeeae guyas.
#26
Quote by DarTHie
So how do you notate your songs?

I'm not MAKING music in GP, only writing it down, so I could remember.


I don't notate.

I record my songs and riffs, so I can figure em out later again. That way I also get the tone, the dynamics etc. down on tape.

And shet my coffee has no sugar, Damn it.

I said there's nothing wrong with notating on gp. If you write on guitar and put it in gp as a memory block, that's cool. I still prefer recording though, since I can listen to it to check for errors on playing the riff/song itself.

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#27
Quote by xxdarrenxx
I don't notate.

I record my songs and riffs, so I can figure em out later again. That way I also get the tone, the dynamics etc. down on tape.

And shet my coffee has no sugar, Damn it.

I said there's nothing wrong with notating on gp. If you write on guitar and put it in gp as a memory block, that's cool. I still prefer recording though, since I can listen to it to check for errors on playing the riff/song itself.

I understand what you mean, but wouldn't it be a bit more convinient for you if you used notation (or even tabs) and recordings?

And I see the inacuracy of notation as part of the beauty of it. If i'm playing a piece (this is more true of when I'm playing the violin rather than guitar) I don't want to play exactly like someone else, I want to put my own take on it.

The fact that dynamics and, when rubato is involved, note lengths are all subjective allow me to do this. This is also why I prefer terms to signal speed rather than metrome marks. And stuff like "feel" and getting dynamics to sound good will all be replicated from notation by a good performer.
#28
Quote by xxdarrenxx
Electronic music is made by input of an instrument. A midi controller, which is controlled by a human

That's why alot of "inputted" electronic music that people make sound without a flow. Like u can hear for example: 4 patterns beat then 4 patterns beat and strings then 2 beats this etc.; If u know what I mean. They get around this because alot of studio's and high end programs have "Humanizer" effects with very advanced algorhythms, to mimic a human, sorta speaking.

Some electronic music works by quantatized input, because that's what they aim for. A dead on tempo beat for dance use. Of course a bit of beer on a night out in a club will make u sway anyway


Point is, we're talking about FL and that kind of programs, which are advanced. Gp is not advanced.

Btw I love electronic music: Aphex twin, the prodigy, Tangerine Dream and a few others. And I listen to alot of Ambient lounge cd's. I also like Sven Vath. My country has some of the best dj's in the world :P
I don't own a midi controller because I suck at piano...

WHY DO YOU CONTINUE TO MAKE ME DEPRESSED?
#29
Quote by 12345abcd3
I understand what you mean, but wouldn't it be a bit more convinient for you if you used notation (or even tabs) and recordings?


Hmm, I don't think I understand.

All I wrote was about writing the material instead of notating what u wrote on guitar. Here's the reason why:

Why I Love the guitar the most of all instruments;

I will take the other most popular instrument in existence; the piano, for comparing why I like the guitar (my opinion ofcourse) .

With a piano, you strike a note and this will make the hammer hit the piano string. Now if someone sits behind the same piano and hits the same note. Then the note will sound always the same and the only variable is how hard u strike the key (volume of note).

On a guitar however, the note will never sound the same. Not even from the same player.
-There are 1000 possible pick angles and even more pick sizes/thickness/material.
-There are 1000 different places to hit the string
-There are different ways how and where the thumbflesh hits the string to add harmonic value.
-You can mute the string in 1000 way's by applying more or less pressure on the bridge, or by how much u move ur hand.
-1000 of different vibrato width/speed/timing combinations
-1000 of different guitar sounds *edit*:Millions
-Pickup combinations
And then there's the combination of all those things listed above.


Now how many things of the above possibilities can be made on GP? maybe 20 max?

You understand now why I believe GP just doesn't get the Magic called the guitar sound, which is the reason why I love the instrument the most of all.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Nov 29, 2008,
#30
Quote by xxdarrenxx
Hmm, I don't think I understand.

All I wrote was about writing the material instead of notating what u wrote on guitar. Here's the reason why:

Why I Love the guitar the most of all instruments;

I will take the other most popular instrument in existence; the piano, for comparing why I like the guitar (my opinion ofcourse) .

With a piano, you strike a note and this will make the hammer hit the piano string. Now if someone sits behind the same piano and hits the same note. Then the note will sound always the same and the only variable is how hard u strike the key (volume of note).

On a guitar however, the note will never sound the same. Not even from the same player.
-There are 1000 possible pick angles and even more pick sizes/thickness/material.
-There are 1000 different places to hit the string
-There are different ways how and where the thumbflesh hits the string to add harmonic value.
-You can mute the string in 1000 way's by applying more or less pressure on the bridge, or by how much u move ur hand.
-1000 of different vibrato width/speed/timing combinations
-1000 of different guitar sounds *edit*:Millions
-Pickup combinations
And then there's the combination of all those things listed above.


Now how many things of the above possibilities can be made on GP? maybe 20 max?

You understand now why I believe GP just doesn't get the Magic called the guitar sound, which is the reason why I love the instrument the most of all.



that...was...


magical
#31
Quote by DarTHie
So how do you notate your songs?

I'm not MAKING music in GP, only writing it down, so I could remember.

And that pretty much sums it up...the TS is writing with GP, rather than notating what he wrote on the guitar.
Actually called Mark!

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#32
Quote by steven seagull
And that pretty much sums it up...the TS is writing with GP, rather than notating what he wrote on the guitar.



Yes 2 post up^^ Why I think it does rape IMO all that makes the guitar. The guitar isn't about which notes to play, but how u play em. That's why I love it so much man, it's such a great instrument. I like piano too, which has it's own little innocence I like that.

But the tonal possibilities of guitar just did it for me.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YYjXJaUJos&fmt=18
Check this by EJ. Perfect example of something, that can never be written on gp. The whole ambience and weird techniques. It would be almost impossible.

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#34
xxdarrenxx isn't, he's just pointing out that a lot of guys do.
Actually called Mark!

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Last edited by steven seagull at Nov 29, 2008,
#35
Quote by xxdarrenxx
Hmm, I don't think I understand.

All I wrote was about writing the material instead of notating what u wrote on guitar. Here's the reason why:


Sorry, I just meant that with notation and recordings it would save you having to work out the notes of the riff every time
Quote by xxdarrenxx

Why I Love the guitar the most of all instruments;

I will take the other most popular instrument in existence; the piano, for comparing why I like the guitar (my opinion ofcourse) .

With a piano, you strike a note and this will make the hammer hit the piano string. Now if someone sits behind the same piano and hits the same note. Then the note will sound always the same and the only variable is how hard u strike the key (volume of note).

On a guitar however, the note will never sound the same. Not even from the same player.
-There are 1000 possible pick angles.
but how many do you consciously use? Probably less than 10.
and even more pick sizes/thickness/material.
The same as the amount of different types of hammers (which do the same job as a pick on gutiar).
-There are 1000 different places to hit the string
Again, how many different places do you consciously use? Probably less than five.
-There are different ways how and where the thumbflesh hits the string to add harmonic value.
Harmonic value as in adding notes?
-You can mute the string in 1000 way's by applying more or less pressure on the bridge, or by how much u move ur hand.
But how many different ways do you (again, sorry) consiously mute the string?
-1000 of different vibrato width/speed/timing combinations
Fair enough, although with keyboards with pitch bend functions this is the same
-1000 of different guitar sounds *edit*:Millions
There are loads of different types of piano too
-Pickup combinations
Fair enough
And then there's the combination of all those things listed above.

All of those apply to bass. Also, there are millions of different piano sounds.

And piano's do have their advantages:
- You can play chords with more than 6 notes in them
- You can play two seperate but very complex lines (more complex than two lines on a guitar could get

And a pianist could probably tell you more.


I'm not trying to argue with you though, I think the guitar's an amazing instrument too, I just thought the piano was a bit undervalued.
#36
I use guitar pro when I write a progression and see what could work with it...I have written entire songs in GP, but it's not like I literally decided what I was playing IN GUITAR PRO...I simply scribed it as I played it. It's annoying to transcribe in GP though, because you have to dictate the length of the notes, which gets annoying because you have to constantly change the lengths.
#37
DO NOT WRITE DOWN IDEAS IN GUITAR PRO.

Notepad is your friend.
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#38
Quote by 12345abcd3
Sorry, I just meant that with notation and recordings it would save you having to work out the notes of the riff every time

All of those apply to bass. Also, there are millions of different piano sounds.

And piano's do have their advantages:
- You can play chords with more than 6 notes in them
- You can play two seperate but very complex lines (more complex than two lines on a guitar could get

And a pianist could probably tell you more.


I'm not trying to argue with you though, I think the guitar's an amazing instrument too, I just thought the piano was a bit undervalued.



I know, but you (at least) I do conciously go for a sound on guitar, until it becomes 2nd habit to mute or pick in such a way. How more conciously you listen (or play) guitar. How more you will develop a personal sound. Unless you just want guitar to be a sound layer for a bigger thing, that's cool.

And I don't hate on piano. I love it very much. I meant it for writing guitar stuff in GP. I just said why I loved guitar(for no real reason, just see it as a love tribute ), but the essence was, that GP doesn't include that guitar stuff.

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#39
Quote by xxdarrenxx
I know, but you (at least) I do conciously go for a sound on guitar, until it becomes 2nd habit to mute or pick in such a way. How more conciously you listen (or play) guitar. How more you will develop a personal sound. Unless you just want guitar to be a sound layer for a bigger thing, that's cool.

And I don't hate on piano. I love it very much. I meant it for writing guitar stuff in GP. I just said why I loved guitar(for no real reason, just see it as a love tribute ), but the essence was, that GP doesn't include that guitar stuff.

But do you really think "now I need string placement 986", I was just trying to show that just because there are x places to pick on the string you wont be usuing them all if the number is so big they must be only millimeters apart.
#40
I think what a lot of people's gripes about guitar pro really are just that midi sounds crap. I've written loads on it, I love it because it makes it really easy to create parts for, say, piano, without having to read standard notation. Obviously I never use the gp file as the final product, I record it using proper instruments and VSTs. The recording is where all the feel and character come in. Guitar Pro is just great for getting ideas down and exploring stuff which you usually can't without a band around you.
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