Poll: Which Amp?
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View poll results: Which Amp?
Marshall DSL 100 (stack)
21 88%
Guitar Rig 3 (with controller)
3 13%
Voters: 24.
Page 1 of 2
#1
Hey!

What would be a better buy for me, a 16 year old guitarist.
The Marshall DSL 100 stack or Guitar Rig 3 and a small P.A, I'll be using a macbook with it.

I would play both live.

The Guitar Rig 3 has the advantage of being able to record.

What are your views?
#2
Uh the real amp because computers can lag out and crash?


Like, really? Were you actually considering using a computer program for live stuff? I'm not trying to hate or anything but damn.
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#3
Im pretty confident my Macbook wont crash. It's pretty reliable.

No but there really are people that do that Live, search 'air live guitar rig' on youtube.

So should I not bother recording my self and just play live first?? Coz yer...

thanks btw
#4
Quote by spaterman
Im pretty confident my Macbook wont crash. It's pretty reliable.

No but there really are people that do that Live, search 'air live guitar rig' on youtube.

So should I not bother recording my self and just play live first?? Coz yer...

thanks btw


Yeah, but are you confident enough that your computer can handle the lag? I had a pretty high end computer and I got at least a second of delay. That will throw you off.

Do you intend to have a separate unit for your rig away from the band? Because you most likely won't cut through the mix with a rig like that.


This is really a no brainer for me but if you think you can pull of the computer, go for it.
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#5
believe me guitar rig can be laggy as hell and i have a very powerful PC (quadcore, 4gb ram 7200rpm HD etc). You could get a zoom g9 tube fx processor and a pa. i run that rig and it works well (but thats cos i need a PA for my band and its easier than taking an amp). I have 3 tuba amps lol.
#6
The only problem with using a program like Guitar Rig is you'd have to consider the latency of your sound card. You don't want to have a 20ms delay between when you pick the note to when it comes out of your PA.

Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
Like, really? Were you actually considering using a computer program for live stuff? I'm not trying to hate or anything but damn.

Because no one uses laptops on stage at all right? I mean, DJ's and electronic musicians don't really count as musicians.
The more you know, the less you understand.
last.fm
#7
Quote by Insolent
The only problem with using a program like Guitar Rig is you'd have to consider the latency of your sound card. You don't want to have a 20ms delay between when you pick the note to when it comes out of your PA.


Because no one uses laptops on stage at all right? I mean, DJ's and electronic musicians don't really count as musicians.


Yeah but they don't use modelers that suck up all the RAM.


If you're going to be a smart-alec, pull guitar players who use computer operated modelers out of your ass, not unrelated products.
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#8
true true... Well yea im thinking about the amp... hmmm. So it's a 1997 Marshall DSL 100 with 2x EL34 & 2x KT77's. The cab has 4 x 10" celestions... This is going on trademe (NZ second hand site) for NZ$1500 which is about US$850. Is it worth it?

Also, would it be too loud for my bedroom, or could I turn it down... Whats that thing ed van halen used to kinda turn it down...

Thanks for your quick replys
#9
Guitar rig is just meh. I wasnt too impressed.
Gibson Les Paul Custom
Fender American Tele

F/S:
Orange Rockerverb 50
Orange PPC412
#10
Quote by spaterman
true true... Well yea im thinking about the amp... hmmm. So it's a 1997 Marshall DSL 100 with 2x EL34 & 2x KT77's. The cab has 4 x 10" celestions... This is going on trademe (NZ second hand site) for NZ$1500 which is about US$850. Is it worth it?

Also, would it be too loud for my bedroom, or could I turn it down... Whats that thing ed van halen used to kinda turn it down...

Thanks for your quick replys


Van Halen didn't use anything to turn his amp down. He regulated the power with a variac. Variacs don't lower volume.


The DSL has a master volume and you could get an attenuator as well.


850 is a good price.
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#11
Quote by dcdossett65
Guitar rig is just meh. I wasnt too impressed.


really? so the marshall would sound better?

BTW I'll be using dimarzio pickups, tonezone and air norton.
#12
when i started playing electric guitar i wanted to only use computer amps like guitar rig, but after a while i learned that they just didnt sound good enough -and i somehow managed to get my I/O latency verrry low, like unnoticeabley low
#13
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
Van Halen didn't use anything to turn his amp down. He regulated the power with a variac. Variacs don't lower volume.


The DSL has a master volume and you could get an attenuator as well.


850 is a good price.


so basically, I could use it in my room?
#14
Quote by spaterman
so basically, I could use it in my room?


If you don't mind a slightly degraded tone, then yes.


If you aren't gigging, Guitar Rig is fine, but I definitely wouldn't use it for gigging.
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
Last edited by H4T3BR33D3R at Nov 26, 2008,
#15
Quote by Zida
when i started playing electric guitar i wanted to only use computer amps like guitar rig, but after a while i learned that they just didnt sound good enough -and i somehow managed to get my I/O latency verrry low, like unnoticeabley low


Ohhh cool. So Marshall it is then... I suppose...

Btw lol --- that vote for guitar rig up there is mine.... heh.
#16
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
If you don't mind a slightly degraded tone, then yes.


If you aren't gigging, Guitar Rig is fine, but I definitely wouldn't use it for giving.



Ok yea... Im not new to tube amps btw, I just had to get rid of my Peavey Triumph pag 60. That thing was awesome. But so many problems. And so little parts available for a 20 y old peavey.

What does a variac and an attenuator do actually?
#17
Quote by spaterman
Ok yea... Im not new to tube amps btw, I just had to get rid of my Peavey Triumph pag 60. That thing was awesome. But so many problems. And so little parts available for a 20 y old peavey.

What does a variac and an attenuator do actually?


Variacs are useless nowadays unless you have an old amp.


Attenuators act as a load box in between your amp and the speakers.


Think of it as a master volume after your amp. You can crank your amp to make it sound good and then bring the volume down.
Quote by zgr0826
My culture is worthless and absolutely inferior to the almighty Leaf.


Quote by JustRooster
I incurred the wrath of the Association of White Knights. Specifically the Parent's Basement branch of service.
#19
I agree that GR3 will be less reliable then using an amp, but latency isn't a huge issue if you have somewhat decent stuff. with ASIO and a reliable interface (i've never used the gr3 one so i dunno how good it is), you can easily get the latency down to the point it is barely noticeable. About as noticeable as running your guitar through a digital multi effects.
with 2+ gigs of rams you shouldn't have a problem running the software unless you go crazy on effects .

Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
Yeah but they don't use modelers that suck up all the RAM.


yea software synths don't take up much ram at all....
My Stuffs
Whammy->DL4->Holy Grail->MXR 108->Mesa Rectoverb
OCD->Sun Face->Big Muff->535Q->DL4->Orange TT
#20
Dunno if you've settled on your guitar rig vs marshall debate yet, but I figure I'll put in my two cents.

I run my guitar through a cheap firewire interface and there is virtually no latency whatsoever in guitar rig. If you're having latency problems, my best guess would be that it's because you are running your guitar through your computer's low quality onboard sound card that does nothing more than route the signal to the CPU to process, eating up your system resources.

The main argument for getting guitar rig would be flexibility. Dozens of amps and effects as you probably know; fantastic for bedroom practice, but imo the tones are not gig-worthy.

This is in contrast to a tube amp, which will fulfill its duty of producing one or two specified tones, but not much else (of course there are exceptions).

Arguing that the computer is more likely to crash is absurd imo. If there's one thing that digital trumps over analog, it is that it's far more reliable.
Quote by solidsnake15
So when I bring girls home to my apartment and I've got dual monitors they get wet and say damn you can check your myspace on one screen and be watching lord of the rings on the other.
#21
when you can get the real deal, why play through a simulation
My Gear
Guitars:
-Gibson Les Paul Studio
-Ibanez "lawsuit" Les Paul
-Ibanez S470
-PRS SE Custom

Amp:
Marshall TSL100
Marshall 1960a cab

Effects:
Dunlop 535q wah
Visual Sound Liquid Chorus

Pickups:
Guitarforce
MHD
#22
Quote by monstercometh
Dunno if you've settled on your guitar rig vs marshall debate yet, but I figure I'll put in my two cents.

I run my guitar through a cheap firewire interface and there is virtually no latency whatsoever in guitar rig. If you're having latency problems, my best guess would be that it's because you are running your guitar through your computer's low quality onboard sound card that does nothing more than route the signal to the CPU to process, eating up your system resources.

The main argument for getting guitar rig would be flexibility. Dozens of amps and effects as you probably know; fantastic for bedroom practice, but imo the tones are not gig-worthy.

This is in contrast to a tube amp, which will fulfill its duty of producing one or two specified tones, but not much else (of course there are exceptions).

Arguing that the computer is more likely to crash is absurd imo. If there's one thing that digital trumps over analog, it is that it's far more reliable.



COOL!

so you're saying that it's not gig worthy... Have you tried it? does it not have an as good as sound as the dsl 100 (tube amp therefore), btw it doesn't matter if the sound isn't exactly like the amp it's modelling, but as long as it sounds good...
#23
Quote by spaterman
COOL!

so you're saying that it's not gig worthy... Have you tried it? does it not have an as good as sound as the dsl 100 (tube amp therefore), btw it doesn't matter if the sound isn't exactly like the amp it's modelling, but as long as it sounds good...


some of its amp models are wonderful, the ac30 is very nice. some of them are not as good, I personally dont like the high gain models as much. Its really good for a practice amp but not reliable enough for gigging imho.

Quote by monstercometh
Arguing that the computer is more likely to crash is absurd imo. If there's one thing that digital trumps over analog, it is that it's far more reliable.

wow. you know, ive never had to restart my tube amp once cause it locked up when i was playing. can't say the same about GR3.
My Stuffs
Whammy->DL4->Holy Grail->MXR 108->Mesa Rectoverb
OCD->Sun Face->Big Muff->535Q->DL4->Orange TT
Last edited by Kino22x at Nov 26, 2008,
#24
Quote by spaterman
really? so the marshall would sound better?

BTW I'll be using dimarzio pickups, tonezone and air norton.


I think you'd be happier with the marshall, but get the 50w, itl sound a bit better a lower volumes, less $, and 100w is never needed.
Gibson Les Paul Custom
Fender American Tele

F/S:
Orange Rockerverb 50
Orange PPC412
#25
Quote by dcdossett65
I think you'd be happier with the marshall, but get the 50w, itl sound a bit better a lower volumes, less $, and 100w is never needed.


I cant, this ones on offer second hand somewhere for about US$800

How much can you buy an attenuator for?
#26
The DSL100 is pretty much the spot on example of the "jack of all trades, master of none" amp. It is decent though, one of Marshall's better offerings within their JCM2000 line.

but for a 16 year old, I doubt you find many (actually any for that matter) cases where you could turn the volume above 2 or 3 without an attenuator (which will cost a few hundred extra). Keep that in mind, there is no point in having a Marshall when you only play it on 2.
Last edited by al112987 at Nov 26, 2008,
#27
Quote by al112987
The DSL100 is pretty much the spot on example of the "jack of all trades, master of none" amp. It is decent though, one of Marshall's better offerings within their JCM2000 line.


Ok cool! Is it good for guns n roses and van halen?
What about chuggy metal like metallica?
And what about stuff like steve vai??
#28
It should work fine for all those styles, it does an... "ok" plexi imitation, like I said, its one of those does everything "ok" but nothing "great" types. I mean, as an example, you can get that high mid snarl of a plexi, but anyone could tell you that it isn't a plexi. It's just a little plain and generic sounding (but still distinctively Marshall).

Also, read what I just added to my last post about having a 100 watt stack. I have a 30 watt JTM45 and have trouble getting it above 2-3 without making my ears hurt.
#29
I own it and I agree with Kino: some of the models are very impressive, whereas others are disappointing. If I were in your shoes, I would look into the DSL (or another tube amp depending on your taste in music) for gigging. It's just not very practical to lug around an expensive laptop through all of your gear and whatnot, especially in a basement show situation or similar where your set is short, the time you have to set up is shorter, and you have the risk of getting your fragile laptop kicked over.

wow. you know, ive never had to restart my tube amp once cause it locked up when i was playing. can't say the same about GR3.


A valid point, but I can honestly say that GR3 has never made my computer lock up. Maybe it's because I use a firewire interface that is specifically designed to handle the demands of GR3, or that my system is decently fast.

When I said reliability, I was referring to overall lifespan. With rigorous use and little to no maintenance, I do not expect my tube amp to last for more than two years, whereas I expect this computer to be able to run 10 years from now with little to no maintenance if need be.
Quote by solidsnake15
So when I bring girls home to my apartment and I've got dual monitors they get wet and say damn you can check your myspace on one screen and be watching lord of the rings on the other.
#30
Quote by monstercometh
I own it and I agree with Kino: some of the models are very impressive, whereas others are disappointing. If I were in your shoes, I would look into the DSL (or another tube amp depending on your taste in music) for gigging. It's just not very practical to lug around an expensive laptop through all of your gear and whatnot, especially in a basement show situation or similar where your set is short, the time you have to set up is shorter, and you have the risk of getting your fragile laptop kicked over.


A valid point, but I can honestly say that GR3 has never made my computer lock up. Maybe it's because I use a firewire interface that is specifically designed to handle the demands of GR3, or that my system is decently fast.

When I said reliability, I was referring to overall lifespan. With rigorous use and little to no maintenance, I do not expect my tube amp to last for more than two years, whereas I expect this computer to be able to run 10 years from now with little to no maintenance if need be.


Whoa whoa whoa whoa, then you're talking about a very poorly built tube amp.

Is maintenance necessary? Sure, but things like changing tubes and biasing are standard and not a huge deal. No one buys a tube amp with the expectation that they do not last for more than 2 years. You realize that people are still using and pay outrageous amounts of money for vintage tube amps from the 50s and 60s with all original parts right?
#31
Wow. A computer outlasting a tube amp? Not a chance.
Your computer is going to be obsolete, worthless, and languishing in a dumpster or a basement in five-ten years. Plenty of Fender Champs- the cheapest, crappiest amp you could buy 50 years ago- are still going strong today. All they need is a cap change every 20 years and new tubes on occasion.

Compare computers of the time to amps of the time: the Space shuttle's computer had less power than your cell phone does. A Marshall of the time is pretty much the same as a Marshall today.
#32
i have a jcm2000 its not a good amp at all, i even prefer my old valvestate to it. in addition attenuators suck your tone. get an amp without master volume and you can use a volume pedal in the fx loop so you can crank the preamp gain. i have used amplitube live for fx..it works okay but ive have problems in the past (and even guitar multi fx sound better sonically than any plugin).
#33
Quote by Mezzo4te
i have a jcm2000 its not a good amp at all, i even prefer my old valvestate to it. in addition attenuators suck your tone. get an amp without master volume and you can use a volume pedal in the fx loop so you can crank the preamp gain. i have used amplitube live for fx..it works okay but ive have problems in the past (and even guitar multi fx sound better sonically than any plugin).


Seriously?? Whys is it not a good amp?

What would you recommend? I'm looking for a tube amp, obviously.

But I don't have a lot of money....
#34
Or you could get could get the marshall and get a illegal copy of guitar rig.
#35
Quote by jake911
Or you could get could get the marshall and get a illegal copy of guitar rig.


Nah I'm not into that
#37
Quote by jake911
Well, I would prefer the marshall, seems like less stuff to carry.


yea. I think so too. But this guy before says it doesn't sound good... gaa??
#38
Quote by Insolent
The only problem with using a program like Guitar Rig is you'd have to consider the latency of your sound card. You don't want to have a 20ms delay between when you pick the note to when it comes out of your PA.


Because no one uses laptops on stage at all right? I mean, DJ's and electronic musicians don't really count as musicians.


Look into Asia4All, it doesnt matter how ****e your sound card is, if you actually know what your doing you can get rid of obvious latency, I have a stock Soundmax dell card, and get about 3.4 milliseconds of latency with Asio4all being used for my recording device on Ableton live.

Its not that complicated.
#39
Quote by beckyjc
Look into Asia4All, it doesnt matter how ****e your sound card is, if you actually know what your doing you can get rid of obvious latency, I have a stock Soundmax dell card, and get about 3.4 milliseconds of latency with Asio4all being used for my recording device on Ableton live.

Its not that complicated.


Cool, but I think the DSL 100 will be better.
According to the poll I should get the Marshall.

I think it's the way to go.
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