#1
Well this is the current issue in my band.

We are getting pretty good but I always want to improve upon some stuff with everyone but they expect me to pull the weight...

Here a sample of what me and my bass player talked about one day.

"Me: You guys need to start working on your instruments more so we can start playing songs closer to what they are when we go and do covers

Him: Dude, there is an art to playing covers our own way, people are not going to notice the difference unless they listen to the original songs 1000 times a day like you do.

Me: It isn't the point, big bands dont cheat their songs and dumb them down to make them easier.... anyone who knows the song or goes to see them will most likely note the changes... we arent always playing our songs and we arent remaking every single cover we do so it would be nice to have the bass and vocals a little closer to wha is to be played.
Besides, by learning the songs how they made them we can get better overall at our instruments because of the techniques they incorporate into them that we can use..

Him: We wont make it big doing really good covers we need good originals, and if we learn the techniques other bands use we arent defining ourselves we are copying them...

Me: I meant techniques for the instrument not the way they write songs.... And Originals need practice to become good, I cant be the only one writing EVERYONES parts and showing them what to do so you can call it "Ours" when it all came from me.. I want you guys to help and even learning your instruments better can help us become better as a whole.

Him: Dude you should show us what you learn with covers and your ideas for originals... that way the whole band can get it down and we get better, shouldnt be a dick and expect us to get the stuff down and practice just cause you are getting better at guitar... You have more time than us.. we have full time jobs... you are in college...

Me: Wow.... to do everything for you guys is overwhelming... you all agreed to work on your parts as a committment you made when we all joined together.. I can have ideas on what to do but I still don't and won't have the knowlledge you all will for the instruments.. bass isnt like guitar and to learn it to teach you is completely time consuming for me... I am not your teacher I am your bandmate... You learn the instruments for yourself to get better.. gigs are a way to showcase talen not just get paid..
Right now I am the only one wanting to show case talent.... And dont start to compare your jobs to college, you cant do that... just like you have down time at work I have downtime at college but I also put in more work at times... You do what you want in your free time but dont play it off as busy cause that is just an excuse and if you wanted to get as good as you brag about us getting youd put the time in.. just like a job, and learning - you get what you put into it."


He never replied to that... my frustration is I am getting beter at guitar, and I am starting to notice more flaws and ask the others to work on their stuff more and actualyl work on the right parts to covers we do. AT the moment the bass player watches what I play and tries to copy off that... While we shouldnt be 100% with all covers and try to add some "us" to it the way it is now is ridiculous... They want to keep going by how things are and hope things will work out... and I want us to get better..

Am I wrong for wishing the others worked at what they did? I am 100% dedicated to my instrument and like 75% into the band... but they are 100% into the band and 30% into the instruments... what can I do?
#2
it depends if they suck
you shouldnt be writing their parts though, thats ****, should be all putting ideas across. what covers are you talking about, im finding hard to grasp what level your at
#3
In all honesty, with band members like that I think I'd find myself another band.

Its all about co-operation. Thats slightly hypocritical coming from me since I do about 80% of everything for my band too, but thats because I chose to and they're fine with it. They have input when its asked of them (which is relatively often). So if you're not cool with doing next to everything and they refuse to have much input into what you're doing, you're better off playing with other musicians.

I dunno, tl;dr
#4
To be fair, you can't force them to make a commitment that they aren't willing to make.
If they aren't willing to improve then you need to either deal with it or join another band with players that are actually dedicated to their instruments.

All musicians should be constantly trying to improve themselves, like yourself. If they aren't even willing to try then they shouldn't call themselves musicians.

They're probably your buddies and you want to be in a band with them, but if all they give you is attitude when you try and step it up then you'd be better off in another band.
#5
They dont seem 100% deidcated to the band if they are 30% dedicated to learning to play their instruments. Its not going to work. The bassist is definatly totally wrong on the "its artistic to play dumbed down" like your saying. I feel your pain. Its artistic if you have a style and incorporate that into the song not if you cant play it or are too lazy so you simplify it lol. Hes making creativity and being artistic and original an excuse for not working on technqiue so you are definatly right. Adding "us" to a song is ok but only if "us" is your style not your "us" is lazy half assing it right?

The problem with being right is a lot of the time it doesnt matter. You cant force people into seeing things your way. If its a real big problem you might want to go elsewhere and maybe just jam with these guys for fun. You have to decide what you want to do. You already made your points clear and they dont seem to want the same thing as you.

What other potential band mates do you know? Do you have other options? Maybe play with these guys and start a second band. If they complain tell them the truth that they arent putting enough effort in and you will play with them and be friends but need to play with other people too because you have "more time to practice". I dont know what area your in and who you know so its hard to say.
Also what type of music are you playing? What songs?
#6
If you are really wanting your band mates to improve then you just have to keep pushing them but unfortunatly if they want to improve or not is entirely up to them not you.
Another option is to join another group of players who are slightly more technically better than you so your basic techniques could improve and force your current band members to catch up with you.
Also try motivating them by watching videos of your favourite bands or telling them the pro's of being a better player, don't resort to guilt tripping, and if all else fails start another band with members that are dedicated to the cause.
Guitars:
Ibanez RGR321EX
Schecter Omen 7 (with Dimarzio D-Sonic in bridge and Air Norton in neck)
Effects:
Tokai TFL-1 Flanger
Boss RGE-10 Graphic EQ
Ibanez DE7 Delay/Echo
Boss TU-2 Tuner
Amp:
Laney IronHeart IRT60 212
#7
I've been in almost the same boat. Some of my band mates seemed to rely on live shows to improve on and wouldn't keep up with practicing things we already had been playing. It's like they wanted to get it right once in reheasal and never practice it again and not even practice it on their own. They kept getting worse to the point that one was playing really soft when we got to parts he couldn't remember how to play.

I gave them the old "we're a team" speech but that didn't help. I think it only hit when they reliased that I was the only one getting compliments.

So that's an option, or watching live vidoes was another way to motivate them to do better.
Imagination is more important than knowledge...
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education.
- Albert Einstein -
#8
Well I dont know how to compare the level of the band, but my self I would say am pretty good - I would like to say intermediant-advanced but that really depends on what you measure it by. I can nail solos and riffs such as crazy train, sweet child, eruption, find the real, and wayward one. And have a good grasp on theory.

My band members dont know squat about theory though... they know the notes on a fret board but my bassist tries to do bass lines in a pentatonic box ALL THE TIME even if it wont fit.. and he doesnt really know thats the position for a minor pent... just knows thats what he thinks sounds good.. the singer is worse.. while he can sing amazing he doesnt know squat when he tries to play rhythm guitar and doesnt get it when I give him tips on strumming...

I guess to measure us its a good drummer, good guitarist, eh bass player, good singer/ eh rhythm guitar.

the reason I didnt really mention the singer before is cause him and bass player are in same boat and feel same way as each other...


My biggest thought right now is just work on original stuff myself.. I cant sing great but I dont want to be a good singer and making recordings can help make me a little known if i collaborate with a person to sing. and I might work with being a sub for other bands cause when I learn songs I dont just learn my part I learn rhythm and so on so I can be a back up guitarist for people. (even if I am better than the person I am filling in for i dont expect to get into a band of close knit people and I dont want to try, but hey its a perk to be known if I do show up another guitarist in a band at a show, people will notice the difference if they see the band alot)
#9
Quote by ehlert99
Well I dont know how to compare the level of the band, but my self I would say am pretty good - I would like to say intermediant-advanced but that really depends on what you measure it by. I can nail solos and riffs such as crazy train, sweet child, eruption, find the real, and wayward one. And have a good grasp on theory.

My band members dont know squat about theory though... they know the notes on a fret board but my bassist tries to do bass lines in a pentatonic box ALL THE TIME even if it wont fit.. and he doesnt really know thats the position for a minor pent... just knows thats what he thinks sounds good.. the singer is worse.. while he can sing amazing he doesnt know squat when he tries to play rhythm guitar and doesnt get it when I give him tips on strumming...

I guess to measure us its a good drummer, good guitarist, eh bass player, good singer/ eh rhythm guitar.

the reason I didnt really mention the singer before is cause him and bass player are in same boat and feel same way as each other...


My biggest thought right now is just work on original stuff myself.. I cant sing great but I dont want to be a good singer and making recordings can help make me a little known if i collaborate with a person to sing. and I might work with being a sub for other bands cause when I learn songs I dont just learn my part I learn rhythm and so on so I can be a back up guitarist for people. (even if I am better than the person I am filling in for i dont expect to get into a band of close knit people and I dont want to try, but hey its a perk to be known if I do show up another guitarist in a band at a show, people will notice the difference if they see the band alot)



I'd say chill out. I for one, ****ING HATE doing covers. We are not the band that made that song. The only reason I play covers is to become comfortable with new band mates until we feel comfortable jamming. We have only played 2 maybe 3 live covers that were pretty good but it's still not the origional.

I don't blame them for not wanting to learn the parts. Half of the problem is getting a right tab for me and that alone makes me not want to learn a song that I love, let alone a song that I hate.

However, it looks like they need to jam with some covers if you guys arn't comfortable with writing with each other yet.
#10
I am in a band, we are PAID to play covers... which usually is more than what an original band makes and chances of getting gigs are higher... Now we write originals but we all know that we play covers.. and that was our purpose when joining. They can hate it... but we do it at for ever 1 original we play we know and perform 10 covers with it...

Songs arent hard to always figure out it takes time yet but if you cant tab the song out yourself and rely solely on the tabs of others than maybe you need to rethink what you can and should do. Sorry not trying to bash but the biggest issue is the bass player wont learn bass and treat its like a guitar expecting the songs for it to fit exactly how the guitar plays so he watches me or expects me to tell hiim what to play while i solo and so on..

I dont know why they wont come up with ideas but I think its also impart to they dont know theory... it isnt a necessity but helps makes things easier.... i even herd the excuse from the singer before how I need to make a guitar part before vocals can even be made which is bs... plus he knows guitar too.. just cause I play it doesnt mean only I can write a part for it would help him more than relying on a day I am at band practice and screw around with an idea then he says one line and doesnt touch it again.
Last edited by ehlert99 at Nov 26, 2008,
#11
Quote by ehlert99
I am in a band, we are PAID to play covers... which usually is more than what an original band makes and chances of getting gigs are higher... Now we write originals but we all know that we play covers.. and that was our purpose when joining. They can hate it... but we do it at for ever 1 original we play we know and perform 10 covers with it...

Songs arent hard to always figure out it takes time yet but if you cant tab the song out yourself and rely solely on the tabs of others than maybe you need to rethink what you can and should do. Sorry not trying to bash but the biggest issue is the bass player wont learn bass and treat its like a guitar expecting the songs for it to fit exactly how the guitar plays so he watches me or expects me to tell hiim what to play while i solo and so on..


Wow really 10 covers to 1 origional? I see no point in actually playing live if your not writing your own music.

Anyhow, it depends on the song. Normally bass is a hella lot easier to figure out then say a shredding guitar lick. Are you sure he wants to play bass and just doesn't want to play guitar? That sounds like the main prob with him just wanting to copy the guitar.
#12
Quote by Guitarfreak777
Wow really 10 covers to 1 origional? I see no point in actually playing live if your not writing your own music.

Because it's really, really fun?
#13
well he doesnt learn guitar parts he copys the chords ill use and just go off there.. he knows a little guitar but not enough to make it relevant for him to play - while he might want to really play (i dont really know) he isnt exactly learning guitar either.. If you want to play an instrument you need to show it... you cant say "hey I know your good but i awnna play guitar now" and just not make it work good..