#2
wat chords did you use?
Gear
Ibanez RG2EX2
Epiphone Les Paul
Fender Strat
Homemade EVH
Marshall JCM 800 Combo

Quote by freshtunes
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#3
All of them are powerchords which have roots os 6th string. The roots are E, F, G#, A, B and C
#4
i can't find a scale to fit all the chords. do you have more than one rhythm or is it just a single riff?
Gear
Ibanez RG2EX2
Epiphone Les Paul
Fender Strat
Homemade EVH
Marshall JCM 800 Combo

Quote by freshtunes
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#5
Remove the notes that give it that "sweet/middle eastern" sound and add chromatic notes. I do it all the time

And is it me or does that scale look like A Harmonic Minor?
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#7
Quote by XxAvantGardexX
Idk according to the list towards the bottom it says E Phrygian Major

yeah it is
Write something in A harmonic for it, or maybe go Natural.
#8
That progression includes notes that are not in that scale.
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#9
Going A minor gives you easy access to the pentatonic sound that you might be looking for.

I wouldn't use pentatonic for leads on a heavy riff but to each his own...
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#10
A harmonic minor, or E phrygian dominant (i think thats what you meant with E phrygian major)
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#11
Quote by GaijinFoot
yeah it is
Write something in A harmonic for it, or maybe go Natural.



You should definitely go with the A harmonic. It's a wonderful scale and sounds amazing if used correctly.
#12
It depends on the tonal center. Phyrgian dominant is a mode of the Harmonic minor scale if i remember right.
#15
@blakkin

Map both A Harmonic and E Phrygian Dominant scales on the fretboard and you'll see.
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#16
Quote by blakkin
How do you know that A Harmonic minor is in key with E Phrygian?

once you use A harmonic minor enough you'll notice the notes.
Actually I was at a gig last night and could tell he was playing A harmonic minor by watching his hands.
Same for any scale, its just experience.
#17
Ugh, what's it called when you just ascend by two tone increments all the way up? You can get a mean chord out of it too and then just slide up or down four frets. I'd go with E Phrygian but then stick that one in for a little more meanness once in a while. So the chord would be on frets 3-2-3-2 on the E, B, G, D strings respectively and then you can slide up four frets at a time. (I'm a hack and I don't know the names of these things.)

Hey GaijinFoot, are you in Japan?
#18
two semitones or two whole tones? if you mean semi tones, its the whole tone scale. ironic.
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#19
Opps. I had to think about that for a minute. Actually, I mean a tone and a half - three frets. So you only get four notes to the bar. It's basically a diminshed chord so it's not something you'd jam on but it's fun to throw in once in a while. I think Jerry Garcia used to do it sometimes. It's dissident but the scale (well, sort of a scale) compliments the harmonic scale imo.
#20
Quote by blakkin
How do you know that A Harmonic minor is in key with E Phrygian?

Since neither Harmonic Minor nor Phrygian Dominant is a key, they're not actually "in key" with each other. It just so happens that E Phrygian Dominant is the fifth mode of A Harmonic Minor; the Phrygian Dominant scale will always be the fifth mode of any harmonic minor scale. let's look at the intervals in A Harmonic Minor (relative, of course, to A major):

A B C D E F G#
1 2 b3 4 5 b6 7

Now, if we begin that scale from E, we get E F G# A B C D. Relative to E major, the intervals for that scale are 1 b2 3 4 5 b6 b7. Voila! That's the formula for a Phrygian Dominant scale.

Any help?
Quote by allislost
I wouldn't use pentatonic for leads on a heavy riff but to each his own...

Why not?
#22
Quote by stop to panic
Ugh, what's it called when you just ascend by two tone increments all the way up? You can get a mean chord out of it too and then just slide up or down four frets. I'd go with E Phrygian but then stick that one in for a little more meanness once in a while. So the chord would be on frets 3-2-3-2 on the E, B, G, D strings respectively and then you can slide up four frets at a time. (I'm a hack and I don't know the names of these things.)

Hey GaijinFoot, are you in Japan?

nah just my band name. you?
#23
Quote by :-D


Why not?


Cool! someone asked why.

I find that pentatonics are just to "happy" sounding and they diminish the heavyness of a Phrygian dominant or harmonic minor riff.

Pentatonics are just too ambiguous of a scale and in my ears they fail to accentuate the P.d. and H.m. riffs by ignoring the sharp 7th and the 2nd
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#24
Quote by :-D
Since neither Harmonic Minor nor Phrygian Dominant is a key, they're not actually "in key" with each other. It just so happens that E Phrygian Dominant is the fifth mode of A Harmonic Minor; the Phrygian Dominant scale will always be the fifth mode of any harmonic minor scale. let's look at the intervals in A Harmonic Minor (relative, of course, to A major):

A B C D E F G#
1 2 b3 4 5 b6 7

Now, if we begin that scale from E, we get E F G# A B C D. Relative to E major, the intervals for that scale are 1 b2 3 4 5 b6 b7. Voila! That's the formula for a Phrygian Dominant scale.

Any help?

Why not?


Yes, thanks . I wasn't aware that Phrygian Dominant was a mode of Harmonic Minor. But I am confused as to why A harmonic Minor would fit over E Phrygian Dominant, as I was looking into the sticky (I'm not quite understanding the relationship between modes and keys.) and it says:

C Ionian (another name for the major scale)
D Dorian
E Phrygian
F Lydian
G Mixolydian
A Aeolian (another name for the minor scale)
B Locrian

Now, each of these modes contain the same notes as its parent scale, in this case, C major. So, D Dorian, for example, is D E F G A B C. Notice how D functions as the root note, not C. The thing to remember that many people get confused about when learning about modes is that none of these modes are in the key of C! They share the same notes as C major, but they are not in the key of C major. D Dorian is a D scale with minor tonality, and its root note is D. The same idea goes for the other modes.


Wouldn't that mean that something in E Harmonic minor fit over E phrygian dominant or what? I'm not sure, If someone could clear that up for me I would be thankful . Or maybe explain why A harmonic minor fits over E Phrygian Dominant despite not being in the same key? Or are they not fitting in any keys at all as said in :-D's post?
#25
Someone already said add in chromatics. You could try a dimished scale for a really evil sound technique necrophagist use alot
#26
blakkin - those are modes of the major scale. E Phrygian and E Phrygian Dominant are different scales - E Phrygian is made from the C major scale and E Phrygian Dominant comes from the A harmonic minor scale.
#27
Quote by Declan87
blakkin - those are modes of the major scale. E Phrygian and E Phrygian Dominant are different scales - E Phrygian is made from the C major scale and E Phrygian Dominant comes from the A harmonic minor scale.


Oh I know, I was just using them as examples. Like for example, shouldn't E Phrygian dominant fit into like an E minor key and A harmonic minor into an A minor key?
#28
Quote by blakkin
Oh I know, I was just using them as examples. Like for example, shouldn't E Phrygian dominant fit into like an E minor key and A harmonic minor into an A minor key?

not really, you see how C Major and D Dorian both share the same exact notes, just a different root? same with A harmonic minor and E phrygian dominant.
#29
Quote by The4thHorsemen
not really, you see how C Major and D Dorian both share the same exact notes, just a different root? same with A harmonic minor and E phrygian dominant.


Yeah, I see that. But from the FAQ I quoted, it uses that example, and says D Dorian is in the key of D while C Major is in the key of C. So wouldn't that mean that D Dorian would not in fact fit over C Major, as they are in different keys? That seems like the same situation with A Harmonic Minor and E Phrygian Dominant, like E Phrygian Dominant would be in E and A harmonic minor in A.

What am I missing here?
#30
Quote by blakkin
Yeah, I see that. But from the FAQ I quoted, it uses that example, and says D Dorian is in the key of D while C Major is in the key of C. So wouldn't that mean that D Dorian would not in fact fit over C Major, as they are in different keys? That seems like the same situation with A Harmonic Minor and E Phrygian Dominant, like E Phrygian Dominant would be in E and A harmonic minor in A.

What am I missing here?


You are making it more confusing than it really is.

D Dorian is the 2nd mode of CMajor

and

E Phrygian Dominant is a mode of A Harmonic Minor.
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#31
Ignore whatever that stupid FAQ says and read what we've been telling you! IF you don't trust us then write down the ****en notes of those scales and you'll see the similarities yourself.
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#32
And D Dorian is not in the key of D.

D Major is in the key of D. Anything in the key of A - G sharp(A flat major) is implying a major key, unless otherwise stated.

You're right on the edge of idiocy, so read carefully before replying.
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#33
Quote by allislost
Pentatonics are just too ambiguous of a scale and in my ears they fail to accentuate the P.d. and H.m. riffs by ignoring the sharp 7th and the 2nd

What if you have a "heavy riff" in natural minor? The natural minor and minor pentatonic are good choices. The pentatonics are not ambiguous, far from it; they just happen to be the most consonant.
Quote by allislost
D Major is in the key of D. Anything in the key of A - G sharp(A flat major) is implying a major key, unless otherwise stated.

You worded this oddly; what are you trying to say?
Quote by allislost
You're right on the edge of idiocy, so read carefully before replying.

The fact that he doesn't understand something does not indicating that he's at "the edge of idiocy". Pull your head out of your ass.
Last edited by :-D at Dec 3, 2008,
#34
Quote by allislost
And D Dorian is not in the key of D.

D Major is in the key of D. Anything in the key of A - G sharp(A flat major) is implying a major key, unless otherwise stated.

You're right on the edge of idiocy, so read carefully before replying.


Haha, sorry dude, I'm not trying to be an idiot, I just find this really confusing.

I'm going to ask a question now, and word it as best as I can, and if someone could just tell me where I'm wrong, I would appreciate it. I was under the impression that the FAQ was correct, as it's stickied at the top. It's kind of ambiguous in many places though, and I feel like I'm so close to understanding but I just don't quite get it.

So what I'm gathering from your post is that D Dorian is not in the key of D, it is in the key of C Major? The FAQ directly says thats not true, should I really just not trust the FAQ or am I misunderstanding you?

Again, sorry for being so difficult to teach. Thanks for trying, I really do appreciate it.
#35
Quote by blakkin
So what I'm gathering from your post is that D Dorian is not in the key of D, it is in the key of C Major? The FAQ directly says thats not true, should I really just not trust the FAQ or am I misunderstanding you?

Don't think of modes as keys. What's essential to this is that D Dorian contains the same notes as C major; D Dorian is therefore the second mode of the C major scale, but is not "in" C major or D major. The key to modes are the unique intervals. Whereas a D major scale has scale degrees 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 (D E F# G A B C#), the Dorian mode contains intervals 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7. Therefore, D Dorian would be D E F G A B C because of the lowered third and seventh degrees.

I'd recommend reading up a bit more on scale theory before exploring modal concepts, though. Hope this was some help.
#36
Quote by :-D
What if you have a "heavy riff" in natural minor? The natural minor and minor pentatonic are good choices. The pentatonics are not ambiguous, far from it; they just happen to be the most consonant.


In that case you are right, but he made a "heavy riff" in Phrygian Dominant, so no. The sweetness of pentatonics would sound ok, but they wouldn't imply a Phrygian Dominant mode or Harmonic Minor scale.

Quote by :-D
You worded this oddly; what are you trying to say?


Well when someone says "play in A" that obviously means A Major. If they say "play in G sharp" it means G sharp Major. I'm saying this because he thinks D Dorian is in the key of D, which is not, because the key of "D" is implying D Major.

Quote by :-D
The fact that he doesn't understand something does not indicating that he's at "the edge of idiocy". Pull your head out of your ass.


He is on the edge of idiocy. All he has to do is map both E Phrygian Dominant and A harmonic minor on the guitar and he'll see the similarities and mapping both D Dorian and D major to see the difference. Doing that will end his confusion.
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#37
An interesting "pentatonic" idea I use that has an interesting tonality when played over major phrygian/harmonic minor simply consists of the 1, 2, 4, 5 and 7 intervals of the relative harmonic minor scale.
Slightly off topic: How would one go about naming this?
Quote by Metalfreak777
Dude if i were you i'd look more at bands like Dragonforce, Dragonland, Dream Theatre and Power Quest, most of their songs are either in E major, A major, C major or D majhor