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#1
So, i'm planning on getting my band to kick it in gear a little more and start getting more songs and **** done. Once we get enough we could make a CD, then start selling some, but if the band does any further...what mistakes should i try to stray away from? These mistakes can regard business labels, musicmaking in general, or dealing with the members of the band.
#4
Quote by evanm31
Never let the bassist do anything.

lol. but then again look at cliff burton and metallica. exactly the opposite of what you said.
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#5
Try to listen to everyone but never be afraid to say "hey, that's stupid"...it's great to get input from everyone, but don't make the mistake of thinking that means using every idea. Play up the talents of each individual member, use them to your advantage. Don't sound dated. Never watch Spinal Tap before you go on stage..just don't. Your drummer should be an alcoholic. Watch offers from labels/managers that sound too goo to be true...they probably are. "We'd like to sign you to a one album deal" means "if your album doesn't sell, you're gone." I think that should give you a good start.
#6
Quote by thisdude
lol. but then again look at cliff burton and metallica. exactly the opposite of what you said.

Cliff Burton is a horrible horrible bassist.
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if this goes in someones signature im gunna be pissed


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what do you mean by goat
#7
Quote by killer puppy
mistakes are the best part


you learn from them

-killerpuppy


+1
best answer
"Never stop doing what you love" - Paul McCartney (Commercial lololol)
#8
Quote by solid_moose
Cliff Burton is a horrible horrible bassist.

+1


He's just another example of a player who's hyped up because they're dead.
#9
Maybe getting your own c.d. is becoming a mistake already, recording it won't be. What I'm trying to say is that spreading your music through the internet nowadays is much more effective than trying to sell a c.d.

Get some quality studio recordings, spread the word (and your music) online and make money of gigs.
"Don’t be a guitarist. Be a musician."

Steve Howe
#10
Quote by MoleMania
+1


He's just another example of a player who's hyped up because they're dead.


orion. that's all i can say.
coincidence that they haven't released a decent album since he died? or that they've eq'ed every bassist since out of the mix?
#11
Quote by MoleMania
+1


He's just another example of a player who's hyped up because they're dead.

metallica-orion.
Gear:
Ibanez S470 BK with a Dimarzio Evo in bridge
Jet city Jca2112rc
Digitech Bad Monkey
#12
Communication is key. Don't mess it up. That means no secrets, talking behind people's backs, saying one thing to one person and something else to another, etc. Clarify the intent of what was said before you take it personally and attack the other member. That kind of thing.

Don't forget that you are also running a business. You need to consider the needs and wants of your customers/fans. They DO count.

Don't be goofs, uber-arrogant, juvenile, etc. when dealing with people. Be professional. You NEED to be taken seriously. Act accordingly, and be professional. Included in that, too, is the fact that the kid who killed your live mix at Joe's Bar and Grill might, in ten years, be a well-sought after producer.... or the booker you slagged off in front of the crowd for bouncing your timeslot backwards an hour for a show might later be the artist manager that you wished you would have treated better.

Don't settle on members just because they're available, or take on a member just because they can play like crazy. Get a player that fits your style, goals, and personality, and one that recognizes that the *song* comes first - not the player or the band itself in a performance. Those things HAVE to mesh, or you're cooked before you're even out of the basement.

More later...

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
Last edited by axemanchris at Nov 30, 2008,
#13
Quote by thisdude
metallica-orion.



If you can only come up with A SONG to show that he was a good musician then that is truly sad and weak.
#14
My #1...

Don't drink enough alcohol pre show that it affects your performance...

Reputation is huge, and it takes a lot to recover from a major disappointment of a show...
Quote by thundrstruk891
do EXACTLY what rock savior said.


EXACTLY.

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#15
Don't do drugs before a show. Or get drunk. One or two beers is fine, but people don't play better when they're drunk or high, no matter how much they think they do.
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Hi 5 man! this is what Im talkin bout!


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#16
Quote by The ZenOfShred
If you can only come up with A SONG to show that he was a good musician then that is truly sad and weak.



(anesthesia) pulling teeth
#17
Quote by axemanchris
Communication is key. Don't mess it up. That means no secrets, talking behind people's backs, saying one thing to one person and something else to another, etc. Clarify the intent of what was said before you take it personally and attack the other member. That kind of thing.

Don't forget that you are also running a business. You need to consider the needs and wants of your customers/fans. They DO count.

Don't be goofs, uber-arrogant, juvenile, etc. when dealing with people. Be professional. You NEED to be taken seriously. Act accordingly, and be professional. Included in that, too, is the fact that the kid who killed your live mix at Joe's Bar and Grill might, in ten years, be a well-sought after producer.... or the booker you slagged off in front of the crowd for bouncing your timeslot backwards an hour for a show might later be the artist manager that you wished you would have treated better.

Don't settle on members just because they're available, or take on a member just because they can play like crazy. Get a player that fits your style, goals, and personality, and one that recognizes that the *song* comes first - not the player or the band itself in a performance. Those things HAVE to mesh, or you're cooked before you're even out of the basement.

More later...

CT


Good stuff.

To add to that, girlfriends are bad news. Period. I think it'd be hard to upkeep a no g/f policy, but I'm just letting you know. Bands do NOT mix with girlfriends.

But the biggest piece of advice I can give is just be aggressive with your life. With everything. Don't take "breaks" from the band, try and get into the best shows you can, talk to as many people as you can about the band and make a good impression, make friends, don't go a day without doing SOMETHING constructive for the band. If you're only able to book one show for a week, for whatever reason - even if it's a crappy show - promote the hell out of it. Pile into the band van and raid public places with flyers. Don't be intrusive and obnoxious, but just tell people about it and make good impressions with everyone.

A good rule of thumb: you can NEVER do too much for the band. And lastly, listen to what killer puppy said. Don't be afraid to fail. The only failure you can commit is not learning from your mistakes, and taking yourself too seriously.

Yes, you need to be taken seriously by others, though. Professionalism and musicianship are both pretty rare in new bands. Your guitarists should tune between every song. They should turn down their volume before hitting their tuner pedal so they don't cut abruptly and make a sloppy noise. Your drummer should know how to tune his drums well and should make sure they sound good every show. Your sound check should be thorough and you should ALWAYS make friends with the sound guy no matter what. Even if he sucks. Right down to the littlest things. Local scenes are very competitive.

Treat band money like company money. Money can come between people like nothing else. But of course a lot of things can come between people. That's why communication is important, like axemanchris said. Musicians are unfortunately not like businessmen. We're sensitive and have personality traits that make it very easy to create drama. That's why it's best to have a band with all members over 20, so they all at least are more stable/reasonable.

And finally, you're not going to get anything unless you get up and get it TODAY. You are NOT going to be "in the right place at the right time." Forget it, it's a fairy tale. Work for every inch. Sacrifice whatever is necessary. Throw away your "back up plan," it's BS. The only musicians that are going to make it these days are the ones that have made up their minds that they are going to make it, and that's it.
We're only strays.
#19
don't do what we're doing now
"Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo."
#20
Quote by Martyr's Prayer
Good stuff.

To add to that, girlfriends are bad news. Period. I think it'd be hard to upkeep a no g/f policy, but I'm just letting you know. Bands do NOT mix with girlfriends.

But the biggest piece of advice I can give is just be aggressive with your life. With everything. Don't take "breaks" from the band, try and get into the best shows you can, talk to as many people as you can about the band and make a good impression, make friends, don't go a day without doing SOMETHING constructive for the band. If you're only able to book one show for a week, for whatever reason - even if it's a crappy show - promote the hell out of it. Pile into the band van and raid public places with flyers. Don't be intrusive and obnoxious, but just tell people about it and make good impressions with everyone.

A good rule of thumb: you can NEVER do too much for the band. And lastly, listen to what killer puppy said. Don't be afraid to fail. The only failure you can commit is not learning from your mistakes, and taking yourself too seriously.

Yes, you need to be taken seriously by others, though. Professionalism and musicianship are both pretty rare in new bands. Your guitarists should tune between every song. They should turn down their volume before hitting their tuner pedal so they don't cut abruptly and make a sloppy noise. Your drummer should know how to tune his drums well and should make sure they sound good every show. Your sound check should be thorough and you should ALWAYS make friends with the sound guy no matter what. Even if he sucks. Right down to the littlest things. Local scenes are very competitive.

Treat band money like company money. Money can come between people like nothing else. But of course a lot of things can come between people. That's why communication is important, like axemanchris said. Musicians are unfortunately not like businessmen. We're sensitive and have personality traits that make it very easy to create drama. That's why it's best to have a band with all members over 20, so they all at least are more stable/reasonable.

And finally, you're not going to get anything unless you get up and get it TODAY. You are NOT going to be "in the right place at the right time." Forget it, it's a fairy tale. Work for every inch. Sacrifice whatever is necessary. Throw away your "back up plan," it's BS. The only musicians that are going to make it these days are the ones that have made up their minds that they are going to make it, and that's it.





great post, both of yall
#21
Quote by The ZenOfShred
If you can only come up with A SONG to show that he was a good musician then that is truly sad and weak.
What's sad and weak is people trying to bash the bass player of one of the most influential bands of all time.
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We assume - so we're played
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We trust - so we're betrayed
#22
Quote by axemanchris
Don't be goofs, uber-arrogant, juvenile, etc. when dealing with people. Be professional. You NEED to be taken seriously. Act accordingly, and be professional. Included in that, too, is the fact that the kid who killed your live mix at Joe's Bar and Grill might, in ten years, be a well-sought after producer.... or the booker you slagged off in front of the crowd for bouncing your timeslot backwards an hour for a show might later be the artist manager that you wished you would have treated better.

True, but don't be super-serious all the time.
Show people that you can have fun and that you have some sort of personality, not just "business 24/7" because those people are really dull.
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#23
Quote by ramm_ty
What's sad and weak is people trying to bash the bass player of one of the most influential bands of all time.


I agree.
#24
Quote by The ZenOfShred
If you can only come up with A SONG to show that he was a good musician then that is truly sad and weak.


Because you've met Cliff Burton, played with him in a personal scenario, written songs with him, listened to him talk about technique, and have a tea date with him Sunday at 10:00 A.M.?

Oh yeah. No, you haven't.

Songs and performances are all we have to show anything about Burton, you idiot. He had his flaws but he contributed greatly to the band and was one of the reasons the band was great and sold so many albums. And he died, terribly, under a bus.

So show some damn respect.


Sorry. Just needed to get that out. I'm sure you're a nice guy but come on...are the one liners and cocky remarks really helping anyone?


Now for the on-topic part.

Make sure your personality and the personalities of your band members mesh. Look at Guns and Roses. Then there are bands who, while may not be great, have a ****load of fun doing what they do because they are great friends. (Metallica).

Listen to everyone's idea, don't be afraid to put out your own, and don't be afraid to take a stand if something absolutely sucks. Let and unbiased friend listen to the songs and make comments from a fans point of view. Get a back-up life plan if it doesn't work out.

And most important of all, don't get caught up in the fame side of it. Keep it real. You're people just like everyone else, and no matter how many shows you play, you should still be doing it for the fun and the music, not the money or publicity.

IJS
#25
Quote by Martyr's Prayer
Good stuff.



Quote by Martyr's Prayer

To add to that, girlfriends are bad news. Period. I think it'd be hard to upkeep a no g/f policy, but I'm just letting you know. Bands do NOT mix with girlfriends.


Girlfriends in and of themselves aren't the problem. The problem is when a band member re-prioritizes things all of a sudden such that the girlfriend is more important than the band.

Also an issue is what the girlfriend thinks of the band, and of the band-member's relationship and commitment to that band. If he has chosen well, she will be a person who will recognize the importance of the band and will respect that. Some girls think, "Aw, how cute...he's in a band. He'll grow out of it. I'll help him... or make him." Stay far, far away from those ones.

All of us in my band are married. Our wives support our efforts in the band. At the same time, we respect that our 'real' lives (work, family, etc.) come first. As long as we're responsible about it and keep it in perspective, it's all good. If we wanted to 'make it' then that person you hook up with has to respect that achieving your goal takes a huge amount of commitment, and be supportive of you. Otherwise, it will not work. One or the other will end badly.

Quote by Martyr's Prayer

Your sound check should be thorough


... unless you're on in a set sandwiched in between a bunch of other bands, and the best anyone is willing to give you is a line check.... Around here, a proper sound check is a luxury... even on major local festivals.

Quote by Martyr's Prayer

You are NOT going to be "in the right place at the right time." Forget it, it's a fairy tale. Work for every inch.


But as you're working for every inch... gigging like crazy, promoting the band at every opportunity, getting press and media, meeting people and shaking hands, building your following and generating a buzz, and being everywhere at once, you increase your odds of being in the right place at the right time. I think it is very much a real factor. The problem is that too many people think you can just lay about and get lucky, rather than having to work like a dog creating opportunities for luck to exist.

Quote by Martyr's Prayer

Sacrifice whatever is necessary. Throw away your "back up plan," it's BS. The only musicians that are going to make it these days are the ones that have made up their minds that they are going to make it, and that's it.


And this is basically the reality for anyone who wants to make the big time.... or even the 'medium time.' You are now employed. Full time. Be prepared for a 60 hour work week. Being a business of the young and beautiful, you really don't have time to sit around waiting until you finish your degree at almost 25. By then, the train has pretty much left without you - particularly that, given the nature of being a student, that being in a band has been a part-time hobby.

For God's sake.... finish high school. You can always go back and finish highschool later on in life, but statistically, odds are stacked huge against you that you won't. Then you find yourself later on, over 30, with no resume and no work skills, except maybe being able to pose like a rock star and play a killer solo. In other words, you are virtually unemployable...and you lack the education required to become so. If you at least have your high school, you can go to college/university/trade school later. You'll have the luxury (or at least advantage) of having some real life experience and will likely make a more informed choice about what you *really* want to be when you grow up, moreso than some 18 year old kid just finishing high school.

But those four years you'll spend getting a degree in something, if your goal is to make it big, would be far better spent developing your craft, building and maintaining your connections, etc.

One more thing... and this ties in with luck and commitment too.... is don't sit around festering in some small town or medium sized city hoping you'll get lucky with a huge hit song. You want to bet on the horses? Better find out more about those specific horses in the race, right? Are you really going to make the industry connections that you will need, that will ultimately lead you to that lucky break of 'right place and right time' when you're living in Columbus, or Hartford, or small-town Indiana? No way. Those people you need to find out about you and need them to know you exist and that you're the business at what you do, and that you have it going on... they don't even GO to those cities, practically, never mind hang out there. You need to pack up and move. Go to those 'music cities' - LA, New York, London, etc. You sure as heck ain't gonna meet Quincy Jones when you're living in small-town Indiana.

Lots of good points, though, Martyr's Prayer.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
Last edited by axemanchris at Nov 30, 2008,
#26
Quote by ItsJustSound
Because you've met Cliff Burton, played with him in a personal scenario, written songs with him, listened to him talk about technique, and have a tea date with him Sunday at 10:00 A.M.?

Oh yeah. No, you haven't.

Songs and performances are all we have to show anything about Burton, you idiot. He had his flaws but he contributed greatly to the band and was one of the reasons the band was great and sold so many albums. And he died, terribly, under a bus.

So show some damn respect.


Sorry. Just needed to get that out. I'm sure you're a nice guy but come on...are the one liners and cocky remarks really helping anyone?


IJS


I need to get some out as well... you're idiot. First of all, I'm not bashing Burton for anything. Second of all, if you took the time to read, I clearly said and highlighted "If you can only come up with A SONG to show that he was a good musician then that is truly sad and weak" ( nobody pointed out his technique, style, albums, lessons, or anything just a simple song).


I didn't say that he sucked or that he was great. I just pointed out that his example for Burton's skill was weak. Next time think about what you are reading.
#27
Can we either sticky this as *the only Cliff Burton thread* or stay on topic?

I mean, he's really not much of a player. He was a lot better before he was replaced by Newsted.



CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#28
+1 to your stuff about the girls and the degrees, axemanchris.

I'm going to add something that people may disagree with, but I think that if you want to be in a moderately successful band (or more), it's 100% true. BAND MEMBERS NEED TO BE NEAR THE SAME AGE. You can't have a 47 year-old drummer playing with three 22 year-olds if you want to be in a successful band, or any age like that. If band members are born more than a decade apart, someone has to say goodbye if you want to be successful.

Sure, you may sound good, but in the press photos and when people show up to the gig, they will find it strange, as well as the fact the group doesn't even have a basic unified "image"--it's whoever off the street could play. A band is a unit, and it has to look like one, and age is often the biggest single thing in preventing that. Go ahead and tell me I'm wrong--but just look at any famous band from any decade or genre, both in how they look, and the years on their birth certificates. They're all really close.

Along those lines, find at least a basic "dress code" for how the band looks at gigs, and stick to it for everyone, no exceptions. And, I don't care if you're playing an outdoor gig in 100 degree weather with no shade--DO NOT WEAR SHORTS OR SANDALS TO A GIG, ever. You look like a big stupid joke. Hendrix, Page, The Beatles, on and on, never wore shorts and sandals to a show. There's a damn good reason. A band is a job, so dress the part, not like you're on vacation in the Bahamas.
'Cause I have done it before and I will do it some more....
#29
Quote by solid_moose
Cliff Burton is a horrible horrible bassist.


I desperately hope you are castrated with a dull knife for this.
METALLICA
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#30
Quote by BHowell
BAND MEMBERS NEED TO BE NEAR THE SAME AGE. You can't have a 47 year-old drummer playing with three 22 year-olds if you want to be in a successful band, or any age like that.


Anyone with any visibility in the band should fit the mould of 'young and beautiful' as defined by MTV. This basic premise pretty much ensures that everyone will be under 30 and reasonably good looking.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#31
The only mistakes you're gonna learn from are the ones you make yourself. Just get out there go for it. Live and learn.
#32
Quote by Zycho
The only mistakes you're gonna learn from are the ones you make yourself. Just get out there go for it. Live and learn.


Yeah. Why should we make sure he consults a lawyer before signing a contract when he can figure that out himself after losing the rights to his music and getting financially raped? Learning from the mistakes of others is overrated.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#33
Ask questions.

ALWAYS ask questions.

If you don't know how to do something, ask several other people about it.
hug your local pug dealer!
#34
Dont have rivalries with other bands, it's stupid, even if you dont like the music be friendly, have a few beers after a gig, its all about making contacts and friends who can help you out later.

Be original in everything, even in you covers, don't cover songs that everybody else covers, take a song that everybody knows and change it to make it your own, also dont have too many covers. And never EVER cover Guns'n Roses, Nirvana, The Chili Peppers or any other modern "classic" band, it WONT be as good.

Dont let egos take over, e.g If you have an incredible bassist/drummer/guitarist/harmoniumist sure let him have his moment of glory but DON'T build the band around him/her

Dont do slow songs until you really have a fanbase, people come to small gigs to dance and have fun.

HOWEVER

It can be quite a good idea to dedicate a practise session to transfering all your songs to acoustic so if you get offered a gig where a full on set won't be appropriate then you have something to fall back on, it'll also improve your songwriting a hell of a lot.

And lastly always have the funk
#35
Make sure that you all stay in constant contact when being involved in band business
And don't treat like a job, treat as what it is, fun with the chance to make some money if you feel you can
#38
Quote by SlackerBabbath
When playing outdoors in December..... don't eat the yellow snow.


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#39
Quote by BHowell

Along those lines, find at least a basic "dress code" for how the band looks at gigs, and stick to it for everyone, no exceptions. And, I don't care if you're playing an outdoor gig in 100 degree weather with no shade--DO NOT WEAR SHORTS OR SANDALS TO A GIG, ever. You look like a big stupid joke. Hendrix, Page, The Beatles, on and on, never wore shorts and sandals to a show. There's a damn good reason. A band is a job, so dress the part, not like you're on vacation in the Bahamas.



Lamb of God wore shorts... and I have a question about unity. does it matter if people are of different races or if one members a girl?
bro0otal

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#40
Quote by Banana Man
Lamb of God wore shorts... and I have a question about unity. does it matter if people are of different races or if one members a girl?


They probably would be more interested.


Example: A Sikh playing some brutal leads on guitar, a women doing growls, or a Jamaican busting some Megadeth rhythms. I would sure in the hell would love to see though because they are so rare.


BUT, if you are playing in front of nazis... lets just say... don't.
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