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#1
I am in the process of trying to educate someone of the difference between rock and metal. He is trying to tell me that ACDC and GNR (old GNR) are metal. Here is what he has said:

"I suppose we have to define our genres.

Heavy metal:

QUOTE
A ponderous rock form characterized by brittle, flashy guitar work (Slash is flash personified, albeit a gritty flash), unnaturally high-pitched male vocals (Axl has an incredible range, and often hits ridiculously high notes) and an adolescent fascination with the darker side of human experience (I fail to see how GNR don't deal with that sort of thing. Welcome To The Jungle, Paradise City, November Rain, just off the top of my head, all have dark themes behind their youthful, "adolescent" exuberance).


http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0776052.html

QUOTE
A type of highly-amplified rock music with a strong beat. (Generic definition, I know, but fits GNR perfectly.)


http://simplythebest.net/music/glossary/mu...glossary_h.html

QUOTE
A descriptive term for rock bands since the 1970s whose heavily amplified electric and percussion sounds have been associated with youthful rebellion and defiance. (GNR are DEFINITELY heavily amplified, and loud, heavy percussion is another common feature of their music. They also are definitely associated with youthful rebellion and defiance)


http://bumblebeemusic.com/glossary/h.html

Seems like GNR are preeeetty much metal. To top it all off, though far from concrete evidence, their MySpace lists them as Rock/Metal/Rock. OK, so they don't actually do their own MySpace, some guy in an office does it. Still, it goes some way to indicating the way they are perceived by those managing them.

As for ACDC, it is less a case of them actually BEING metal as them being predecessors to metal, and as such being associated with true metal bands. It's kind of like Neil Young being called the Godfather Of Grunge. His album Rust Never Sleeps is generally considered to be one of the most influential albums to the grunge movement, and as such songs like Hey Hey, My My and Sedan Delivery are considered within the broader scope of grunge, even though technically they're not part of the genre.

ACDC have some metal elements. They aren't true metal, but there is a definite association and overlap.

Although having said that, some of their later stuff (post Bon Scott) could definitely be called metal. Not all of it, but definitely some of it (Brian Johnson seemed to take them in a more metal direction)"

Im looking for an argumentive response that i could put forward to this person for his education
#3
AC/DC and GnR are more hard rock, GnR kind of Glam Metal if some variety of metal. But metal is usually stronger/heavier than AC/DC or GnR. But I suppose, metal is fairly broad, so alot of stuff probably falls into the category of metal that I'd consider rock.
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#4
Well, AC/DC actually counts as hard rock/heavy metal.

And by loud, they mean louder than GnR.
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#5
Metal is generally more risque. The themes are usually more overtly evil, offensive, and sexist.

But this is a stupid thread. So read a wiki page and fuck off.
#7
Quote by metal Lover
All metal is rock, but not all rock is metal.

Loosely yes.

All music is sound, but not all sound is music.

As for my two cents, I think what separates rock and metal is the stronger blues root in rock. They can be just as heavy in some occasions, but metal is defined by its cold, punchy sound.
Last edited by Vermintide at Nov 30, 2008,
#8
I made a paper on this, but it's written in dutch, so tough break
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#9
Quote by 2mins2midnite
AC/DC and GnR = Hard rock
Iron Maiden = metal
Black sabbath = classic metal
megadeth = metal


Megadeth = Thrash Metal... The best kind of metal... Aside from Groove metal, and just above symphonic black metal.
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#10
Quote by Vermintide
Loosely yes.

All music is sound, but not all sound is music.

As for my two cents, I think what separates rock and metal is the stronger blues root in rock. They can be just as heavy in some occasions, but metal is defined by its cold, punchy sound.

The point is that metal, when it all comes down to it, is just a subgenre of rock.
#12
Quote by Jesstaa
Megadeth = Thrash Metal... The best kind of metal... Aside from Groove metal, and just above symphonic black metal.


I've never understood why Megadeth are considered thrash metal, they dont sound like a thrash metal band at all

Slayer, Kreator, Destruction, Exodus, Evile

Compare them to Megadeth...
#13
Quote by metal Lover

What's wrong with Groove Metal/Symphonic Black metal?
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#14
Quote by andyscoot
I've never understood why Megadeth are considered thrash metal, they dont sound like a thrash metal band at all

Slayer, Kreator, Destruction, Exodus, Evile

Compare them to Megadeth...




Seriously.

WUT?

KIMB and Peace Sells, and RiP aren't thrash? Are you completely oblivious of progressive/technical thrash? Like completely?
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Quote by eggsandham2
cuz ppl hate how power metal they are cuz they think its "gay" or w.e, which is immature and dirogitory
#15
Quote by Jesstaa
What's wrong with Groove Metal/Symphonic Black metal?

They suck. If I had to pick 2 of the worst 'tr00' metal genres, those would be my choices.
#16
Quote by Slaytanic1993


Seriously.

WUT?

KIMB and Peace Sells, and RiP aren't thrash? Are you completely oblivious of progressive/technical thrash? Like completely?


Plus the fact that Megadeth are twice as fast as Exodus.
#17
Quote by Slaytanic1993
progressive/technical

Come on, it's only Megadeth.

Quote by metal Lover
Plus the fact that Megadeth are twice as fast as Exodus.

Oh I'm gonna hurt you bad.
#18
Quote by metal Lover
Plus the fact that Megadeth are twice as fast as Exodus.


Just because your fast, dosent make you thrash, we should all start hailing dragonforce as a thrash metal band then, because theyre faster than any thrash metal band out there, its the sound to me, the drum beat, the sound of the riffs, the sound of the vocals, the overall agression to it

If im going to listen to thrash metal, i dont want some bloke singing in a high pitched voice and playing mega technical riffs...
Last edited by andyscoot at Nov 30, 2008,
#19
Quote by Jesstaa
What's wrong with Groove Metal/Symphonic Black metal?

It's the fact that obviously, the only reason why you're saying that those three genres are your favourites is because the only bands you listen to are Megadeth, Pantera and Dimmu Borgir and you don't know any other metal bands

You're a complete idiot, it's such a joke to tell those are the best genres of metal
Quote by andyscoot
I've never understood why Megadeth are considered thrash metal, they dont sound like a thrash metal band at all

Slayer, Kreator, Destruction, Exodus, Evile

Compare them to Megadeth...

and you are almost as idiotic as the other dude
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#20
Quote by metal Lover
The point is that metal, when it all comes down to it, is just a subgenre of rock.


But Metal has elvolved so much in its forty years of existence that it can just as easily be considered it's own genre now.

I think what separates it from rock is the speed (not in the case of Doom), darkness - in tone and in atmosphere - and the classical influence present.
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#21
Quote by Kepulix
It's the fact that obviously, the only reason why you're saying that those three genres are your favourites is because the only bands you listen to are Megadeth, Pantera and Dimmu Borgir and you don't know any other metal bands

You're a complete idiot, it's such a joke to tell those are the best genres of metal

and you are almost as idiotic as the other dude



He didnt, he said they were his favourite genres

And im being serious, if its my opinion, who gives a ****, when i listen to megadeth it dosent sound like thrash metal, wether it is or not is a different matter, i was simply stating that it dosent soundnearyas agressive as thrash metal should, why does that make me an idiot? Oh wait..it dosent, go baack to your cave you elitist
#22
Quote by andyscoot
He didnt, he said they were his favourite genres

And im being serious, if its my opinion, who gives a ****, when i listen to megadeth it dosent sound like thrash metal, wether it is or not is a different matter, i was simply stating that it dosent soundnearyas agressive as thrash metal should, why does that make me an idiot? Oh wait..it dosent, go baack to your cave you elitist

Hey, it's just his opinion you are an idiot
#23
Quote by Vermintide
Hey, it's just his opinion you are an idiot


He still stated it as fact
#24
Quote by andyscoot
He still stated it as fact

Watch out, someone's going to come up with the "BUT I DON'T NEED TO PUT IMO AFTER ALL MY POSTS" argument pretty soon.
#25
It is thrash/speed metal plus their first two albums had jazz musicians,

But in the words of Scott Ian (Anthrax) Without Megadeth their would be no thrash.

That quote is from the get thrashed dvd, where bands like Anthrax and Death Angel praised Megadeth. Scott Ian also said out of all the Big Four (Megadeth, Metallica, Slayer, Anthrax) of the Thrash Megadeth's debut was the best of them all.

Killing is my Business... And Business is good. If that's not thrash I don't know what the **** is.
#26
Something that needs to be taken into account, is that back in the day, GnR, Deep Purple and loads of other bands that we wouldn't see as metal, were classed as such.
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#27
Metal is based more on minor feels and pedalling, wheras rock uses the 5 to 6 to 5 interval (such as from a 12-bar) on a very consistant basis. Metal has much tighter and stronger rythms, while rock has a looser, more jammy feel. Metal talks about much darker subjects-bands like ACDC and GNR often just sung about sex, drugs and rock n roll (not nessecarily a bad thing). I could go on for days. Whether you like them or not (i do) GNR and ACDC are not metal.

Btw, I think the term "hard rock" is an incrediably annoying term. Its the equivlent of going around calling guitars "stringed guitars". Aren't all guitars string insturments?
#29
Quote by slayer1516
.

Btw, I think the term "hard rock" is an incrediably annoying term. Its the equivlent of going around calling guitars "stringed guitars". Aren't all guitars string insturments?


There's such a thing as non-hard rock... you know that right?
#31
Quote by Jesstaa
Megadeth = Thrash Metal... The best kind of metal... Aside from Groove metal, and just above symphonic black metal.

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#32
Quote by Kepulix
It's the fact that obviously, the only reason why you're saying that those three genres are your favourites is because the only bands you listen to are Megadeth, Pantera and Dimmu Borgir and you don't know any other metal bands

That's exactly what I was thinking.
#33
Quote by dminishedthingy
That's exactly what I was thinking.

More or less, it's what we were all thinking.
#34
Quote by metal Lover
They suck. If I had to pick 2 of the worst 'tr00' metal genres, those would be my choices.



I'll give you groove, but come on symphonic black metal has some good stuff, Stormlord, Tvangeste, Early Emperor, Limbonic Art, and Vesperian ****ing Sorrow.
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#35
This thread is a hemorrhaging hemorrhoid.

Someone pop it.
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#36
Metal is characerized by a heavy and usually repetitive beat, highly distorted guitars and aggressive, powerful vocals (sometimes screaming or guttural growls).
Lyrics are usually violent and may talk about from love or personal feelings to death and anti-christianity, depending on the subgenres.
Classic example of Metal: Metallica, Slayer, Carcass....

Rock, instead, is less aggressive, has an aggressive beat too but not as heavy as metal. Guitars are distorted but not as much as metal guitars. Vocals are aggressive too, and there may be some screams, but they're not as powerful as metal vocals.

Metal focuses on guitar riffs, guitars are heard a lot, they're very loud and distorted. Rock has more "clean" and melodic vocals, and more melodic guitars, less heavy beats and lyrics are not very aggressive either.

Tell that person to listen to some GNR songs, and then hear some Metallica songs...he will hear the big difference.

He can try with these songs:
Metallica: Enter Sandman
Gun n' Roses: Sweet Child of mine
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#38
Quote by tehbensonzorz
listen to Rattlehead, Take No Prisoners, Good Mourning/Black Friday, Into the Lungs of Hell and Last Rites and say Megadeth aren't thrash.

you sir, are an idiot.


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fw8VNA2e2Ro&feature=related could you please watch this video and compare megadeth to them, then maybe youll see where i coming from, i didnt say they werent thrash, i just said i dont consider them to be thrash
#39
Quote by andyscoot
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fw8VNA2e2Ro&feature=related could you please watch this video and compare megadeth to them, then maybe youll see where i coming from, i didnt say they werent thrash, i just said i dont consider them to be thrash

If Megadeth isn't thrash, then Necrophagist isn't death metal.
#40
Quote by andyscoot
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fw8VNA2e2Ro&feature=related could you please watch this video and compare megadeth to them, then maybe youll see where i coming from, i didnt say they werent thrash, i just said i dont consider them to be thrash


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Q__ozbrEDh0

Quote by Tehzekester
If Megadeth isn't thrash, then Necrophagist isn't death metal
This could end badly...

Quote by Vermintide
Come on, it's only Megadeth.


Late, but, RiP and KIMB are easily progressive/technical thrash albums. Peace is that in-between and SFSGSW is just meh and nothing special all around.
R.I.P. Charles Michael "Evil Chuck" Schuldiner
B. May 13 1967 - D. December 13 2001

Quote by eggsandham2
cuz ppl hate how power metal they are cuz they think its "gay" or w.e, which is immature and dirogitory
Last edited by Slaytanic1993 at Nov 30, 2008,
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