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#1
Ok, I know some people have talked to me about my bridge design that I'm working on, so I figured I'd put up a rough diagram and see if i could explain it in a way that would make it understandable, then anyone else who wants to use it can, or anyone who would like to tell me that it wont work can help me develop it so it will.

Right - section 1 is a cross section of metal though it could be made out of anything, the black rectangle on the left of it is a nut. Thid bit is fixed down.

section 2 is a cross section the other way, that is not fixed down and so can move - the little line and black square represents a screw which will thread through the nut

Section 3 is a little hook that the ball end of the guitar fits too. the strings at the neck are bolted down using a floyd style locking nut.

Now the way that this works is (hopefully) by tightening the screw, you move the cross section forward and this tightens the string, and by slackening it loosens it. in this way, it should work as a way to tune without any geared tuners.


Ive just realized - i have a les paul on order that i intended on doing up, and with finding wood difficult, what does everyone think to the idea of a headless les paul?
Attachments:
bridge.GIF
Last edited by CobenBlack at Dec 1, 2008,
#2
Now the plan is to have this bridge system, a roller intonation bar of my own design, and the floyd rose style locking nut.

The guitar I am making will be a 1 bridge pickup (humbucker, possibly rockmonkey as im saving so much money on a lot of other things) 1 volume control (of good quality so that i can roll off to get a crunchier tone) and possibly a kill switch

the neck will be 24" scale because i have small hands, and i love to bend, and it will be a bolt on, but quite long (the neck pocket will probably extend to the bridge pickup) this means i can have a good access joint without worrying about strength.

body will be strat inspired, but probably slightly more pointy. finish will be a stain from a homebase type store because its thin and will allow the guitar to resonate nicely, and im bad at finishing. input jack will be rear mounted

dont know about woods yet - i havent been able to get them cheap enough, so it could be anything.

I have some softwood at home long enough for a neck, so im considering making a soft wood neck with 2 truss rods for stability. dont know if i will tho - i dont mind the body being soft, but the neck probably not a good idea.
#3
But locking the strings down with a Floyd-style nut prevents the tuners from affecting the tuning already, doesn't it? There would be no difference between your design and a normal Floyd except that your design is headless.
#4
not quite - a normal floyd doesn't work quite like mine, for a start my screws are longer so i can actually tune properly with it - and the there are essentially 2 saddlesm rather than 1. mine is also significantly cheaper than a floyd rose.

o, and mine is not a tremolo model

and i did this so that i didn't have to pay for tuners because this build is limited to 100GBP

EDIT: and also - it works by moving the saddles closer or further away from the neck - so its not that much like a floyd, although it does use some similar principles. its actually got more in common with the steinberger trem, but i didn't want to use double ball end strings
Last edited by CobenBlack at Dec 1, 2008,
#5
the only reason you can't tune with the tuners on a floyd is because the tuners are behind the nut, and when locked down strings don't move through the nut. While on the TS's design he can tighten and loosen the strings. Think of it this way. The bridge is the nut and the tuners are the bridge. If you understand
#6
Quote by guitarcam123
the only reason you can't tune with the tuners on a floyd is because the tuners are behind the nut, and when locked down strings don't move through the nut. While on the TS's design he can tighten and loosen the strings. Think of it this way. The bridge is the nut and the tuners are the bridge. If you understand


exactly - its a bridge and tuners in one
#7
that makes sense and seems like a pretty genius idea! Good Luck!
R.I.P. Les Paul, 1915-2009

A man chooses, a slave obeys.
#8
i was hoping someone would be able to point out any possible flaws - i think it works in theory - but im looking forward to some opinions.

thanks bv310

EDIT: i have come up with a small flaw - when slackening the screw it may be that the bridge moves about a little, so to fix it, im going to put a spring between the two little plates.
Last edited by CobenBlack at Dec 1, 2008,
#9
another flaw - string breakage may be an issue. pointy bits on any of the contact poins will snap it like a twig
R.I.P. Les Paul, 1915-2009

A man chooses, a slave obeys.
#11
So from what I understand, it'll be like this, right?


I made the drawing before I saw your second post, so by 'TOM style bridge', its the same idea, but roller saddles, and the tuning system is like the tailpeice, right?

the only problem I can see that you might run into is that you'll have to make sure theres enough tension on the string before you start tuning it/lock down the nut. if the string is too slack, even when you tighten the tuning screw all th way, it wont be at proper pitch.

but I'm sure that shouldnt be too much of a big deal if you're aware of it..

should be pretty decent for a budget build. and quite unique
#12
the tuning system will be as it is in the first post yes, and the tom bridge is actually rollers like you said, mainly because id rather not have a neck angle to compensate.

the plan to keep the tension high is that i'l have a temporary clamp, so when im restringing, i will attach the ball end to the hook, and then thread it down the neck, and then pull tight. this will sit in a vice while i lock the floyd nut down. i will then use the bridge to tune to pitch, and hopefully it will have enough in it to get to pitch - i will be using extra long screws so that i have a lot of play in it, but until i try it i dont actually know how much tension i will be able to create with the screws.

o, i forgot to mention, im probably going to have a roller nut infront of the locking nut too. the locking nut will be used purely for the purposes of holding the dtrings down.

but yeah - you got it right on the money there - thanks for your input.
#13
Unfortunately I can' contribute with your bridge, but I will say, I'm highly anticipating this! It's rare to see people try to innovate!

Also for your wood: www.luthierssupplies.co.uk

Fairly decent priced on body woods, and freboard woods are like £2!
#16
i dont think that it would make much to be honest. there are already very good bridges in production and at very reasonable prices, but i am quite pleased with it i must admit - i just hope it works the way that its meant to. im also working on designs for a tremolo version, but thats a long way off yet.
#18
I don't thnik a patent would be in order, especially at such an early stage, I reckon if you go through various changes and make it to be a bridge that could rival the other bridge tuning bridges, you could get a patent on it and try, but, it's a bit early to say.

And yeah, luthiers supplys seems a decent site.
#19
Regarding the screws. You will need them to be Allen bolts, if it is to work at all.

Slotted etc heads, will not last long with the effort of tuning. Also, by having them inline, it will require tremendous effort to turn the screws to pitch. Which is why using an Allen Key, will be useful. Tuning machines, as you know, have gears in them, that not only reduces the effort, but allows for fine tuning. Also, they have much larger surface on with which to apply thumb pressure.

Having larger (thicker) screws will help, as will coarser threads, but this may not be possible, when you think of the confines of screw length and space on the bridge.

Can you explain how "Roller Intonation" works? I am not familiar with that
#20
hmm . . . as far as roller intonation is concerned, there are 2 ways to do it at home that i know of, the method which i'll be doing is a shameless copy of brian mays intonation dealio - and its essentially this - get a roller (i'll be using ball ends because they have the slot in the middle) and then through the center you put a little bar (it'd look like this --l-l---) and then you make a saddle that consists of a little block of something, sometimes metal, sometimes wood, and you carve litle channels into it and you move it forward or backwork into the different grooves based on whether it needs flattening or not

i might have a picture
#24
this idea is kind of pointless.. if you want the tuning on the body why not just put standard tuners on the body recessed in the back that are accessible from the back.. tuners are can cost as little as 20 dollars usd, your tuning system wont be much cheaper.
#25
i dunno - bit of metal, bunch of screws not gonna be 20usd even i dont think- and could be a lot better than normal pegs. tuning issues are usually caused by string slippage and friction - this is bolted down at one end, and at the other its directly mounted - its not wound anywhere, so its not gonna slip and everywhere that it faces friction other than from the frets its on rollers. admittedly tho. . . it could be a lot worse.

but i think your looking at it the wrong way . . . i could have bought a used guitar for my 100GBP, i could have bought tuners and mounted them in the body, i could have done any number or things that i didn't, but if everyone who could have taken the easy option did, then what would mankind have to show for it? i dont think invention needs justification.

. . . that and i dont have a router so if i was to start cutting out holes i dont need to cut it would be a lot more work - as it is i need a neck pocket, a pickup cav and an electronics cav, and i can just about bear to chisel that out myself
#26
(to add to what Skeet UK said)

instead of regular screws, you could find a bunch of drum hardware, and use the bolt-things (not sure what they're called... maybe tuning ...something?) that hold the drum skin down or tune it..

then you could use a drum key as extra leverage when turning the screw or bolt or whatever, like how a regular guitar tuning machine has the buttons or knobs or whatever they're called, except removeable so you can get to the next strings tunign bolt easily.

sorry if that doesnt make much sense, I'm rushing out the door right now. hopefully you understand what i mean. if not, I'll be back online later and explain it...
#28
i was going to build from scratch, but since ive just remembered about this guitar, and since it was bought with the intention of doing up anyway i figure i'l fix this ol baby
Attachments:
195199113_tp.jpg
195199118_tp.jpg
195199124_tp.jpg
195199129_tp.jpg
195199134_tp.jpg
#31
right, first i'd like to apologize for posting 4 times, but if i spend too long in go advanced or edit mode it freezes my comp, so i have to do it quickly and then type something in the post quick reply thing.

right, so this is what it needs

new inlays because they are popping out (and they are crap - not even square)
refretting (quite badly)
new nut
new intonation bar (or just saddles)
new pickups
completely new electronics
new tuners
new neck plate because its heavily rusted and looks like its probably going to fall apart
new strap locks
new input jack

what im actually doing - ok an issue with the guitar is that the cavity for the controls is too small, so what im going to do is fill it in with scrap wood, im also going to do this to the 3 way switch and the imput jack hole, as well as 1 of the pickups, and then just drill one hole for 1 volume in what was the cavity, and then add a rear mounted jack pretty much next to it (strat style)

im also going to scallop the neck and get rid of the inlays and put on my own design of bridge

o another problem - whoever had it before me has dropped it at some stage and cracked the side of where the neck join meets the body (not that it fit very well anyway) so im going to cut off the existing bit right up to the neck, and the put on a new piece of wood which is very very tight to the neck - hopefully this will mean my neck pocket will be a lot stronger, and save me from the damage getting further into the guitar.

i think thats everything.
#32
I would love that guitar so hard.

I don't know what it is about Les Pauls that gets me, but no matter the condition, I always want to fix them up and play* the living hell out of them.


*and by play I obviously mean make sweet, sweet love to.
------

Shwiggity.
#33
lol - yeah thats why im moving the jack socket - i can slip it in half way through a gig and no-one'll know.

i have a thing for lp's too - i just love them. never found one that feels right to play, but i see them and i just imagine how they should play. still not found the special one though. i will do one day.

o - and this guitar has a name btw - lazarus - because im gonna bring her back to life. does that make me jesus? im in the process of growing the beard .. . .
#35
lmao! that's an awesome name!

I personally love the feel of my LP. Nothing is more comfortable to play than that guitar. As far as I'm concerned, It'll be with me until I kick the bucket, even if it is only an Epiphone.
I've had many players tell me that it's neck is one of the most comfortable necks they've ever played, when they play on Wizard style necks etc.

Make this one proud!
------

Shwiggity.
#36
yeah i think im gonna keep the head - and i hope that this guitar turns out nicely, because i gave it a quick clean, and sorted the fretboard out and it just looks ace - who would have thought it, a bolt on plywood top les paul has taken my heart.

im gonna make it scream like nothing else - its gonna take some work - but i have some ideas that should make it work. i might get some metal thats been engraved and put it over my designed bridge system to hide it - make it look like a bigsby style tail piece. what do you think?
#37
Looks like restoration is going to be quite the task, but I wish you the best of luck: I'm anxious to see how your bridge works out!
Quote by tjfishrocker
Coolcat i want to make love to you right now.

Quote by Natrone


Anyone else see the irony in smashing a guitar that says "peace and love" ?
#38
me too - its one of those that definately works in theory but im not sure about in practice yet - like will the screws be tight enough in the nut that when i bend it doesn't just pull them back out again? and will the string slip on the hook?

like i said tho - it wasn't originally meant to be a les paul, i was goin to make one of my own design, but the lack of wood, and the arrival of this guitar just seemed to put me on the track for doing that. it needs rebuilding, so why not do it with this i guess
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