Page 1 of 3
#1
How do we absolutely know that reality is real?

I was going to blog this but I want to see how many people I can mind rape, and all of 2 people will read my blog...because I don't stick my e-penis in enough people's ears...or something. Regardless, the point of this is to illicit some discussion about absolute truth and how it pertains to objective reality. And so here we go:

Imagine that you are alone in a room that is empty except for a single chair. How do you prove to yourself that the chair exists?

Most likely by experiencing it with the senses; by touching it and by seeing it. Everything that we accept to be true we do so based on experience. The scientific method is founded on this principal and it's necessary for practical life.

Okay fine so the chair exists for all practical intents and purposes, but we're trying to achieve absolute truth. So, prove that your senses are an accurate means to gauge truth about reality. This is much more abstract and is also problematic because...you can't. However it's a little unfair to ask such a question so let me change the scenario a bit.

Now consider that both you and I are in the room with the chair. You prove to yourself that the chair exists by using the same senses as before, and come to the problematic question about objective sense perception. However, now you have another reference which adds credibility to the senses. You merely ask me to detail how I perceive the chair, and if we are in agreement than perception is valid and the chair absolutely exists. Life is good.

Now prove that I exist.

And you've just built a circular argument.

The answer to my initial question, "How do we absolutely know that reality is real?". Plain and simple...we can't know in absolution.


(tl:dr) - Get out of my thread you hobo.
#4
you just answered your own question
Nothing of me is original. I am the combined effort of everybody I've ever known.

¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨
#6
I've thought about this before, I've always had my doubts that human senses are telling the truth. How do we know that what our eyes see isn't just an over lapping image and what lies behind it is something else same thing with touch, smell, etc. How do we know what red is to one person and is pink to another? Things like that, its early in the morning so I can't exactly even think about it too much myself.
#7
You're not the first one to think of this, it's an old problem.

The only way is to believe yourself and your senses only, after all, what separates us from out senses?
#8
No-one ever tries arguing that a chair isn't real when you're beating the crap out of them with it.
#11
How about I take the chair up in my two hands and beat you to a pulp with it. Would you believe it is real then?

Edit: ^Someone beat me to it^
#13
THE CAKE IS A LIE!

If you can see it, and touch it, and if you want, taste and smell it, then it has to be real, why would you mind trick your sences into delivering information to your conciousness at exactly the same time e.g. you feel yourself touching the chair and see your self touching the chair at the same time, you are stopped by the chair, it is a physical barrier in the way, the strength of the chair holds you when you sit on it.

Are you saying if you sit on the chair and lift your legs up the chair isnt real and humans can actually fly?




Quote by dogismycopilot
Absent Mind, words cant express how much i love you. Id bone you, oh yea.

Quote by lumberjack
Absent Mind is, as usual, completely correct.

Quote by littlemurph7976
Id like to make my love for Neil public knowledge as he is a beautiful man
#14
We can never know anything to an absolute which is why the scientific community will never say something is 100% proven. It cannot be done purely because of the element of doubt. How we percieve the universe is limited to our sense and limited to our technological advancement. The only real way to validate any observations in our reality is to keep testing and experimenting. If what we observe changes, then our perception changes and hence our reality changes, but our understanding of how things work becomes ever more advenced.

Proving that you exist is easy. If I can see you, and someone else can see you we can say with high probability that you are in existence, circular logic aside, if you can be observed with our limited senses and technological capabilities, you exist.
Sat in a lab, curing diseases. They actually LET me play with chemicals!
#15
Quote by smb
No-one ever tries arguing that a chair isn't real when you're beating the crap out of them with it.


Quote by metalmouth3130
How about I take the chair up in my two hands and beat you to a pulp with it. Would you believe it is real then?

Edit: ^Someone beat me to it^


It does you no good because it doesn't change your proof of the chair. You still can't prove to yourself that either entity exists.
#16
Every 13 year old with black nail polish knows this basic ontological idea.
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, your eyes will get sore after a while."
#17
well, I know that I'm perfectly fine with this reality/non reality, so it doesn't matter if it realy is real.
Quote by Jackal58
If I was Santa you'd all get shit for Christmas.
#18
Quote by JackalUK
YEA!!! hey, wait... theres no scat porn here....ppffttt what a waste of time


If you suddenly find yourself unable to view the pit, does the pit not exist anymore? Or did you just get banned for spam?
This is not a pipe
#19
I'd just rather assume it's real and get on with life
Nothing of me is original. I am the combined effort of everybody I've ever known.

¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨
#20
So uuh..... Does my guitar exist or what? like.. I can play it and stuff..? right? Lemme ask you this.....Does this post exist?
#21
Quote by carmel_l
If you suddenly find yourself unable to view the pit, does the pit not exist anymore? Or did you just get banned for spam?

lol it depends, are you able to view the FOTB?
Quote by Jackal58
If I was Santa you'd all get shit for Christmas.
#22
Quote by carmel_l
If you suddenly find yourself unable to view the pit, does the pit not exist anymore? Or did you just get banned for spam?

Now that's deep
Nothing of me is original. I am the combined effort of everybody I've ever known.

¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨
#24
Quote by denizenz
It does you no good because it doesn't change your proof of the chair. You still can't prove to yourself that either entity exists.


Whatever, I'm just trying to get the point across to you that no one really cares and that most people who have read this thread probably want to beat you with the chair. Sorry I couldn't give you a more intellectual reply.
#25
oh no, its philosphy 101 all over again



but seriously, no we cant know in absolution.

EDIT: just like nothing math or science says "proves" anything.
#27
You determine what is real through observation, experimentation and testing. You won't get to 100% certainty, but out of the many, many possibilities, you will single one (or a few) out, which is far more probable than the rest.

There is no such thing as finding the absolute truth, and it is irrational to demand that. Anyone who still dismisses a hypothesis or theory when the evidence make that theory very probable, has a deep misunderstanding of what knowledge is and how it works.

"True" is "very, very probable' and "false" is "very very improbable". You will never know anything with absolute certainty, but it is reasonable to say that it is true when there is substantial evidence and research which suggests that it is true.
#28
Bah, I hate discussions like this. I don't find them interesting at ALL. I sat in on a philosophy class a month ago and this exact discussion happened. Who cares if nothing we experience is real (besides philosophers)? Just go along with the ride and enjoy it. Woo.
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
#29
Nothing is 100% true.

Ever.

It is not possible because for all our generation knows the 2nd world war might now have happened. Perhaps our the generations prior are just telling us this so we don't start another horrific battle. Hmmm?

Same goes for everything else.

Chairs, colours, words, all history, all science, all religion as you can see, by everything I meant everything.

This is why i never get into arguments about right and wrong. There is no right and wrong, only schools of thought.
This water's dark and coldGod's not where you hopedThis moment come and goneIt's time we all moved on
#30
Quote by JamesDouglas
Every 13 year old with black nail polish knows this basic ontological idea.


#32
Quote by Shredder XXX
It is not possible because for all our generation knows the 2nd world war might now have happened. Perhaps our the generations prior are just telling us this so we don't start another horrific battle. Hmmm?

This is the sort of convo I like having. Conspiracies FTW
"But first...are you...experienced?"
#33
Quote by Just_Matt
Im so sick of that stupid question...

Philosophy FTL

If its real, its real if its not, it looks real, get on with life.


Although I do agree in many aspects of your statement it’s little unfair. I think it takes a right kind of mind to appreciate philosophy, which may explain why half the population is in tears of boredom while the other half is roaming around their Greek villas while wearing sandals and making suggestive noises.

Also your statement is subjective to time, in the future we may have the means to test the fabric of reality and then who would look silly?

To TS
I love Philosophy (although i know very little so far) and i was slightly disappointed that you merely rehashed an old argument.
MASSIVE TEXT
#34
I'll take a big glass of pretention with a side order of absolute twaddle, please!

Last edited by Jackolas at Dec 1, 2008,
#35
The purpose of studying philosophy is to disprove your religion, your scientific methodology, the laws of your entire civilization, your ethics, and the existence of that chair you're sitting on (although not convincingly enough as to make you feel you have to stand up). Bonus points are awarded for disproving that you disproved it.

Philosophy has avoided adopting either a purpose or a method, and therefore it is immune to most criticism, since you can never point out that it failed to reach its goal or work as advertised. If you are foolish enough to try to criticize philosophy anyway, your statements will simply become absorbed into the morass as yet another branch of philosophy.


Quote from uncyclopedia on philosophy. I think the description fits very well.

How can you prove that what you're thinking is real? Your thoughts are surely the source of this question, and thinking is surely a sense. So debating this is impossible, because what you're thinking might not be the reality. Which you can't prove or disprove anyway.

Last edited by Toolshed#9 at Dec 1, 2008,
#37
Yar, there is no absolute truth, and we will never know what is 'reality' and what is not.
...Bleep Bloop...
#38
Now, go about proving that you move in the world and don't cause the world to move around you. For instance, when you jump; prove that you go up and the world doesn't go down. You say, I've seen other people jump... however that is only in your frame of reference which is fixed to the ground, so you can't prove that they aren't causing both the world and you to move down. Also, you can't prove that other people aren't just a figment of your highly over-active imagination; that your brain has made up in order to keep you from getting bored. In which case, I am typing this to my imagination.

Hi, Imagination!
#39
Quote by RockThe40oz
TS, stop sucking off Descartes and thinking you're coming up with some new intellectual argument. Skepticism is annoying.

I've always been more of an empiricist ala David Hume.

I never claimed to have come up with something new. And didn't Hume's Problem of Induction piss all over empiricism?

Quote by ZanasCross
Now, go about proving that you move in the world and don't cause the world to move around you. For instance, when you jump; prove that you go up and the world doesn't go down. You say, I've seen other people jump... however that is only in your frame of reference which is fixed to the ground, so you can't prove that they aren't causing both the world and you to move down. Also, you can't prove that other people aren't just a figment of your highly over-active imagination; that your brain has made up in order to keep you from getting bored. In which case, I am typing this to my imagination.

Hi, Imagination!


Exactly. Except that the example of the Earth moving when I jump is contradictory because in order for everyone else's frame of reference to also move would require the Earth to exert gravitation...
Last edited by denizenz at Dec 1, 2008,
#40
Nihilism is the solution to those problems
Quote by big duck
You are so going to hell, but that is hilarious.


Quote by esther_mouse


Quote by K_McGill
Idiot
Page 1 of 3