Poll: Yes or no
Poll Options
View poll results: Yes or no
Yes bail them out.
123 44%
No let them sink.
155 56%
Voters: 278.
Page 1 of 6
#1
Well the CEO's from Ford, Chrysler and GM are returning to Washington today with hopes for receiving a loan from the Feds in order to remain in business for the near term future. I am interested in your opinions on this. Yay or nay?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28047498
I live in Mi. and a shutdown of GM would be catastrophic for this area. So I gotta go with yes.
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#2
They fail, we fail. I definitely don't want them to have the bailout, but I don't think there's another way.
#5
Kill 'em all...

With no bailout. I just paid $700 billion in bailout money, do you really expect me to bail out some more coporations? Every man, woman, and child in the country already owes uncle Sam $2,300 on average for the bailout. They made their mistakes and failed to adapt to the market, it's been a long time coming, and they knew it.
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Last edited by black007hawk2 at Dec 4, 2008,
#7
I'm worried that a bailout won't save them, it will just delay the inevitable. Unless, of course, the Big 3 find out what the hell they're doing wrong and fix that. If they could turn their business around before a bailout, then I'd give them the bailout.
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#8
People, don't forget that this will take away many peoples jobs.

Roger & Me anyone?
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#9
Quote by Jackal58


Toyota hires way more people than Ford now, Ford just laid off a ****load of people and is planning on moving a lot their operations that where based here to mexico apparently. So like I said, to hell with them.
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#10
The reason they didn't get it last time was because the 3 representatives flew in 3 different private jets.
Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who...
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#11
It seems as though there should be some manner of repercussion for these companies because while it is true that they are a necessary part of the economy - it's hardly fair to throw billions at them (or anyone) in an effort to save the whole.
#12
Quote by Kid_Thorazine
Toyota hires way more people than Ford now, Ford just laid off a ****load of people and is planning on moving a lot their operations that where based here to mexico apparently. So like I said, to hell with them.

Ok. Hope you like breadlines.
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#13
Quote by scrambler_66
I'm worried that a bailout won't save them, it will just delay the inevitable. Unless, of course, the Big 3 find out what the hell they're doing wrong and fix that. If they could turn their business around before a bailout, then I'd give them the bailout.


Exactly what I was thinking.

+1


#14
Quote by guitar/bass76
It seems as though there should be some manner of repercussion for these companies because while it is true that they are a necessary part of the economy - it's hardly fair to throw billions at them (or anyone) in an effort to save the whole.


I say the CEOs and Boards at all of the companies should be lined up against the Washington Monument and shot.

Quote by Jackal58
Ok. Hope you like breadlines.


Where I live, very few people work in the Auto industry, except at Toyota which isn't part of this. Ford still has a couple of plants here, but they are laying everyone off anyway.
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#15
Oil is the most precious commodity in the world, without out it, there has been and will be in the near future, chaos.

Those companies make sub-par vehicles with low crash ratings, low quality environmental precautions, and high fuel consumption for minimal cost to the manufacturer, leaving you with an expensive pile of junk. The now is great, but it's the future that you have to think about. Bailing them out could ultimately result in a far worse situation.
#16
Quote by BLToast
Oil is the most precious commodity in the world, without out it, there has been and will be in the near future, chaos.

Those companies make sub-par vehicles with low crash ratings, low quality environmental precautions, and high fuel consumption for minimal cost to the manufacturer, leaving you with an expensive pile of junk. The now is great, but it's the future that you have to think about. Bailing them out could ultimately result in a far worse situation.


What is in your opinion, an above par automobile?
Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who...
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#17
Quote by BLToast
Oil is the most precious commodity in the world, without out it, there has been and will be in the near future, chaos.

Those companies make sub-par vehicles with low crash ratings, low quality environmental precautions, and high fuel consumption for minimal cost to the manufacturer, leaving you with an expensive pile of junk. The now is great, but it's the future that you have to think about. Bailing them out could ultimately result in a far worse situation.


Exactly, they need to adapt or die, they chose to die.
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#18
Quote by black007hawk2
Kill 'em all...

With no bailout. I just paid $700 billion in bailout money, do you really expect me to bail out some more coporations? Every man, woman, and child in the country already owes uncle Sam $2,300 on average for the bailout. They made their mistakes and failed to adapt to the market, it's been a long time coming, and they knew it.


Actually, it's more like 35,031.29$


Let them burn for once
#19
Quote by black007hawk2
Kill 'em all...

With no bailout. I just paid $700 billion in bailout money, do you really expect me to bail out some more coporations? Every man, woman, and child in the country already owes uncle Sam $2,300 on average for the bailout. They made their mistakes and failed to adapt to the market, it's been a long time coming, and they knew it.

Are you even employed?

The bailout could just end up being a huge waste of money, but considering the auto. industry is essentially what drives the U.S economy, I don't know if the alternatives are much wiser.
Quote by AllTimeNewbie
Actually, it's more like 35,031.29$


Let them burn for once

Let who burn? The blue collar workers that are going to get laid off because the companies can't afford to keep them anymore? Do you really think the CEO's are going to be going through personal financial crises? No. They're still going to be living comfortably and securely.
#20
Quote by AllTimeNewbie
Actually, it's more like 35,031.29$


Let them burn for once


Really? My economics teacher told me different. Where did you get that number?

Quote by Archaon
Are you even employed?

The bailout could just end up being a huge waste of money, but considering the auto. industry is essentially what drives the U.S economy, I don't know if the alternatives are much wiser.

Let who burn? The blue collar workers that are going to get laid off because the companies can't afford to keep them anymore? Do you really think the CEO's are going to be going through personal financial crises? No. They're still going to be living comfortably and securely.


Yes, I am employed.

And they won't be living comfortably for long, with the recession and all. If we go into a depression, all the money in the world won't help you. It will be worthless.
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Last edited by black007hawk2 at Dec 4, 2008,
#22
ford no longer owns aston martin, so i have no real worries what happens. But i still think it would be the right thing to do seeing as they employ so many people.
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#23
Quote by Archaon
Do you really think the CEO's are going to be going through personal financial crises? No. They're still going to be living comfortably and securely.


And that's why we should have them all shot.
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#25
We should let them go under and use the money to help out the employees who will get laid off because their bosses don't want to give up their private jets.
#26
It's curious to see all of these replies of 'let them sink' and 'they chose to die'. This may very well be true at the upper echelons of the Big 3, but the majority of these companies are made up of workers earning a paycheck to make a living - if their entire job market falls through, who is going to supplement their income? or do they deserve to die too?
#27
Capitalism for the poor, socialism for the rich.
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#28
Quote by black007hawk2
And they won't be living comfortably for long, with the recession and all. If we go into a depression, all the money in the world won't help you. It will be worthless.



What the hell?
#29
Quote by AllTimeNewbie
Obviously you're teacher should get out more :P

But here you go http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/


Oh we are talking about two different amounts! You are talking about the TOTAL debt of America, I'm talking about just the $700 billion bailout.

Quote by Archaon


What the hell?


Explain.
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#30
Quote by guitarnoobie
We should let them go under and use the money to help out the employees who will get laid off because their bosses don't want to give up their private jets.

The problem with that seems to be that without a job what are they going to do with the money? Likely save what they can - and in all likelihood fuel the U.S. recession.

And even if you handout the billions of dollars to millions of people it can only last so long, eventually you'll run out and they'll still be unemployed because there isn't an industry in place to absorb that many workers.

Edit:
Quote by black007hawk2
And they won't be living comfortably for long, with the recession and all. If we go into a depression, all the money in the world won't help you. It will be worthless.

WTF
#31
Quote by Ur all $h1t
Capitalism for the poor, socialism for the rich.

Yeah.

If the rich want a bailout, the republicans are all for it, but if someone wants to tax the rich he's a "communist Marxist".
#32
Quote by black007hawk2
Explain.

I think it's you that needs to be doing the explaining.

Why are you assuming that currency loses all value during depressions?
#33
Quote by Archaon
I think it's you that needs to be doing the explaining.

Why are you assuming that currency loses all value during depressions?


that can happen, although it's not very likely.
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#34
I watched an industry die in Pittsburgh back in the '70s. The steel industry was much more regional than GM or Ford. The effects were devastating. GM is much larger with many more companies dependent upon them than USS could ever have hoped to be. The failure of GM could well be the trigger for a global depression larger than any ever seen before. At the very least it will destroy the economies of 5 or 6 states. The cost to the government will well exceed the 35 billion the auto industry is asking for. It is also a loan not a grant.
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#35
Quote by guitar/bass76
The problem with that seems to be that without a job what are they going to do with the money? Likely save what they can - and in all likelihood fuel the U.S. recession.

And even if you handout the billions of dollars to millions of people it can only last so long, eventually you'll run out and they'll still be unemployed because there isn't an industry in place to absorb that many workers.


So basically what we have here is a hostage situation.
#36
the problem is, the current bailout they are asking for with minimal restricitons probably won't do anything, if there is a bailout it needs to put the companies under joint control of someone other than the CEOs, since they caused this mess in the first place. They also need to stipulate that the companies aren't allowed to outsource and that they need to cut back on layoffs. All this bailout is going to do in it;s current form is line the pockets of the people at the top.
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#37
The Detroit auto business is a money sink. They will inevitably fail because their business model is bad. The Big 3 need to go into bankruptcy, restructure their businesses, get their heads out of the sand, and start making cars people will buy.
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#38
Quote by black007hawk2
Oh we are talking about two different amounts! You are talking about the TOTAL debt of America, I'm talking about just the $700 billion bailout.


Explain.


Oh sorry, I thought the 2000-something$ you mentioned was what every citizen owed in general
#39
Quote by Archaon
I think it's you that needs to be doing the explaining.

Why are you assuming that currency loses all value during depressions?


Oh. My bad. Sorry, I'm in marketing class right now, I'm not thinking straight right now lol. I don't know what I was thinking.

Quote by Kid_Thorazine
the problem is, the current bailout they are asking for with minimal restricitons probably won't do anything, if there is a bailout it needs to put the companies under joint control of someone other than the CEOs, since they caused this mess in the first place. They also need to stipulate that the companies aren't allowed to outsource and that they need to cut back on layoffs. All this bailout is going to do in it;s current form is line the pockets of the people at the top.


Yeah, it won't change anything. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't some of the $700 billion not in circulation yet? Isn't there something wrong with that picture?
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Last edited by black007hawk2 at Dec 4, 2008,
#40
I don't suppose they ever intend to refund the taxpayer when times are good again, no?
Or is it simply a case of permanently privatizing profits while publicizing losses?
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