#1
Im completely confused upon the subject of the circle of fifths. If i was to start at C and to go around the circle playing each scale going clockwise until I reached C# would it be better to make a transition to Db than sharp notes or should i learn both the sharp and flat notes of all keys? What im really asking is if i start going around the circle using sharps would it be wrong to then change to flat notes half way around the circle? Or should i stick with only one?
#2
2 Co5 threads???

anyways.. learn both, because the are actually different!!
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#3
Quote by Avengethedeath
Im completely confused upon the subject of the circle of fifths. If i was to start at C and to go around the circle playing each scale going clockwise until I reached C# would it be better to make a transition to Db than sharp notes or should i learn both the sharp and flat notes of all keys? What im really asking is if i start going around the circle using sharps would it be wrong to then change to flat notes half way around the circle? Or should i stick with only one?


Erm.. C# and Db are the same... Just like F# and Gb... I think youd better learn what the circle of 5ths is actually used for.
The Snaggle Toothed Pirate
#4
Quote by Fight The Foo!
Erm.. C# and Db are the same... Just like F# and Gb... I think youd better learn what the circle of 5ths is actually used for.


Not to be a dick but thats misleading.
Quote by joshjhasarrived
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#5
Quote by victoryaloy
2 Co5 threads???

anyways.. learn both, because the are actually different!!

What reason would there be for learning C# major, seeing as Db is simpler so noone writes in C# major.

IMO learn the useful keys, the keys with no simpler (with less sharps/flats) enharmonic equivalent. These are (all majors, but the same with their relative minors):

C, G, D, A, E, B, F#/Gb, Db, Ab, Eb, Bb and F major.
#6
Quote by 12345abcd3
What reason would there be for learning C# major, seeing as Db is simpler so noone writes in C# major.

IMO learn the useful keys, the keys with no simpler (with less sharps/flats) enharmonic equivalent. These are (all majors, but the same with their relative minors):

C, G, D, A, E, B, F#/Gb, Db, Ab, Eb, Bb and F major.


i get what your saying..
but it wont hurt to know that
C# major would have 7 sharps
and that
Db would have 5 flats.
Quote by joshjhasarrived
Little does the government suspect that it's funds are being rapidly drained through funding infinite free cardboard boxes to bored teenagers on an internet forum.
#7
Quote by victoryaloy
i get what your saying..
but it wont hurt to know that
C# major would have 7 sharps
and that
Db would have 5 flats.

Perhaps, but if you started learning scales with simpler enharmonic equivalents you would start trying to learn things like E# major which has four double flats in it, and even more complicated scales which are of little, if any, use.
#8
Theoretically, the circle of fifths could extend to even FXXXXXX, or Ebbbbbbbbb, making it the "Spiral of Fifths" instead.
But, for practical purposes, it doens't, and for practical purposes, nobody will use the Ebbbbbbbb harmonic minor scale, they will use the Ab harmonic minor scale instead, because in our western 12-TET system they are enharmonical, and sound the same (you would not do that in pythagorean tuning for instance)...
There are scales like C# and Db which are enharmonical, but both are used in our western system, so it's better to know both of them, so you know how to approach them when yhou encounter them (in a score, or when improvising, etc)..
Last edited by gonzaw at Dec 4, 2008,
#9
depends on your "goal" as a musician...are you going to do session work...if so...learn ALL the keys...you won't be able to pick and choose the charts you are giving in some cases...

horror story: invited to sit in with a house band..."ok ... goodbye pork-pie hat...by mingus...Gb.."

Gb...thats almost G ain't it....

got lost in the turnaround...and it was my solo...keyboard player bailed me out...with a smile ...

yeah...learn ALL the keys

play well

wolf
#10
Quote by gonzaw
There are scales like C# and Db which are enharmonical, but both are used in our western system, so it's better to know both of them, so you know how to approach them when yhou encounter them (in a score, or when improvising, etc)..

As I said before C# (major I assume you're talking about) would not be written in a score and would probably be never said to be the key of a song because Db is simpler.

For this reason learning how to read (as this is the only difference between the two) the C# major scale would be useless.
#11
+1
to
gonzaw and wolflen

12345abcd3 does have a point..
but i'm still gonna say you sould know them in the back of you mind.
Quote by joshjhasarrived
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Last edited by victoryaloy at Dec 4, 2008,
#12
Quote by 12345abcd3
As I said before C# (major I assume you're talking about) would not be written in a score and would probably be never said to be the key of a song because Db is simpler.

For this reason learning how to read (as this is the only difference between the two) the C# major scale would be useless.


C# major has 7 sharps while Db major has 5 flats
C# minor has 4 sharps and Db minor 8 flats..

You would say then never use C# major and never use Db minor?
What if you are in Db major and you are doing some pitch axis or parallel modes thing? Do you change from Db major to C#minor?

You would have to change the root, which is not the same in terms of degree (one being C and the other being D), meaning you would have to change all intervals and notes and you would confuse the hell out of yourself...

Is it that bad to write 7 sharps in your key signature?
#13
Quote by gonzaw
C# major has 7 sharps while Db major has 5 flats
C# minor has 4 sharps and Db minor 8 flats..

You would say then never use C# major and never use Db minor?
What if you are in Db major and you are doing some pitch axis or parallel modes thing? Do you change from Db major to C#minor?

You would have to change the root, which is not the same in terms of degree (one being C and the other being D), meaning you would have to change all intervals and notes and you would confuse the hell out of yourself...

Is it that bad to write 7 sharps in your key signature?


+1


on the parallel key/scales idea
Quote by joshjhasarrived
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#14
Quote by 12345abcd3
As I said before C# (major I assume you're talking about) would not be written in a score and would probably be never said to be the key of a song because Db is simpler.

For this reason learning how to read (as this is the only difference between the two) the C# major scale would be useless.
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Last edited by gpb0216 at Dec 4, 2008,