#1
Now that I got your attention....

I didn't want to post this in the pit, because I would like a sort of discussion that is.... well... impossible in the pit.

I was listening to the radio last night and they were talking about Playgirl magazine publishing their last print issue and the socio-cultural-demographic factors that affected that cycle. That reminded me that I had wondered this before....

With porn so widespread and available for free on the internet, how does the porn industry make money? Or do they? Are subscriptions and newsstand sales of mags like Penthouse down? How many people actually *buy* videos? And why would they if they can get them for free off the net?

Sounds a lot like music, doesn't it? But wait... there's more....

A few more things to consider:

-consumer demand for porn seems to be at an all time high.... but does it make much money? Consumer demand for music is quite high.... just not the demand based on people willing to pay for it.
-people justify buying music because they want to support the artist, but does that same moral assertation, and that same fan loyalty transfer to porn stars/porn directors as they do to music stars?
-just as in music, there is a huge boom of amateur wannabe's out there creating their own material.

The connections are obvious. I have no idea, really, how the porn industry works, or what sort of fiscal health it is in at the moment.

Please, I don't want this to turn into a file-sharing/downloading/pay-the-artist debate. We all know people download music, whether we think it is morally justified or not. That is the reality.... as it is the reality in porn.

I'm just interested in whatever similarities there are between the two business models/industries, and whether the music industry can learn how to survive (or how not to survive, whatever the case may be) from the porn industry.

The reason I chose the porn industry in particular, as opposed to the movie industry is that people *want* to watch the full 100 minutes of a Hollywood movie, so downloading isn't quite as tempting as it would be for files that are only a few megs - like an mp3, or a five minute video clip of 'the good scenes.' Also, downloading and burning something to disk or storing it on your harddrive leaves you open for getting caught by your mom, roommate, wife, girlfriend, whatever. Smaller files are easier to hide, or if you use proxy browsing or whatever, there's no evidence to get rid of. So, like music, it is much more transferable and disposable.

Thoughts?

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
Last edited by axemanchris at Dec 5, 2008,
#2
wow.... it makes me wonder why i never made these connections and thought of the same thing... You already covered everything I thought of, so I have nothing to say for the moment
#5
Quote by misfitsramones
wtf.... lol
uhhh, whats your argument?


he had no argument, just an idea he wants to discuss.
#7
i think you made a viable connection..

my only problem with the porn industry is that you can't see them live like in the music industry.... bad joke.

anyways, i think that you have a point. The porn industry made millions of dollars a year, so does the music industry.

i think one thing could be that for 100 bucks you can buy a video camera, and that's your only physical cost whereas in the music industry there's studio costs and everything. the cost of one microphone is more than the camera's in the porn industry.

for this reason i think the music industry needs to make more money than the porn industry by a lot. It's expected.

if recording costs and promoting could be cut to the cost of a video camera, there might be an equalization of the two industries
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#8
Quote by FightinIrishPJ

i think one thing could be that for 100 bucks you can buy a video camera, and that's your only physical cost whereas in the music industry there's studio costs and everything. the cost of one microphone is more than the camera's in the porn industry.

for this reason i think the music industry needs to make more money than the porn industry by a lot. It's expected.

if recording costs and promoting could be cut to the cost of a video camera, there might be an equalization of the two industries



i'm sure the cameras are more than $100. then the cost for the computer, then for the internet domain fees, etc....

so, it is more than a one time $100. just sayin'

edit: NOT THAT I WOULD KNOW ... i'm just thinking what it would cost to run that sort of operation.
#9
Don't hate! We had a pretty good few words on the Internetly future of the music industry in The Pit the other day. Hater.

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#11
my communication teacher told us that playboy is the number 1 selling mag in America.

its interesting to think about..
cuz my arguments were gonna be:
1) porn starts dont make as much as musicians.. but thats not true because it depends on how big you are. (pun intended)
2) porn starts probably also have some other type of job.. but so do many musicians.
3) ... i had another idea that didn't work.. but oh well

the thing is tho.. i dont think porn stars can get reconized by them self.
bands are unsigned and signed.
i don't think there are any porn starts that are solo.. and make there own stuff
and sell it to people(companies yeah) but not to the actual "fans".

idk.. very good topic to bring up
Quote by joshjhasarrived
Little does the government suspect that it's funds are being rapidly drained through funding infinite free cardboard boxes to bored teenagers on an internet forum.
Last edited by victoryaloy at Dec 5, 2008,
#12
in porn, a lot of girls do one gig and thats it, where as in music an artist can have a 40 year career

nevertheless, an interesting philosophy
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#13
sounds like someone had an insightful fapping sesh.
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#14
Quote by baylewis
in porn, a lot of girls do one gig and thats it, where as in music an artist can have a 40 year career


porn starts have 40 year careers.

another thing is musicians travel and play as many different places to get there name out.. but tbh i dont think porn starts do.

... i should probably stop think about how there different and focus on why they are so similar!
Quote by joshjhasarrived
Little does the government suspect that it's funds are being rapidly drained through funding infinite free cardboard boxes to bored teenagers on an internet forum.
#15
Quote by thomaserak
sounds like someone had an insightful fapping sesh.


+1 haha

but downloading with torrents makes it really easy to get full albums, not just mp3's. and there's not really anything that can be done to stop it. I personally believe that the music industry is just going to have to take the price cut and deal with it. they still make killa-money off their shows, and still make money off albums and merch. bands that produce solely for the money suck anyways.
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#16
i know you didn't want to go on this thread to go this route CT, but it kinda works.

CD's are now $13-$15.. for 13-15 songs
everyone know's it doesn't cost anywhere near that price to produce
soo.. drop the price of a Album to $5 a lot more people would buy them. (and know there are those who will still do it but i'm sure over 3 times as many people would buy CD's) wow.. putting it that way maybe not.

anyway.. music is more selective than porn.
with porn it doesn't matter who the chick is, if she's hot and has a nice body people will like it.
with music its not that simple.
and it is a lot more easier to get your hands on a good looking pick/clip than a song.. so that brings us back to the origional question.. how does the porn industry work?
Quote by joshjhasarrived
Little does the government suspect that it's funds are being rapidly drained through funding infinite free cardboard boxes to bored teenagers on an internet forum.
#17
Because makers of porn movies are probably rich ass pimps from miami, who would pay big bucks to see them doing live action, and film it just for an extra cash.

Then you also have the strippers, and the hookers.

I think it's all related in a way.

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#18
Interesting chris.

Bear in mind, porn isn't a buisness anymore. All the porn I've ever seen has been taken by the girl herself or the boyfriend sneaks a video camera in whilst he does his drunk girlfriend. Than it gets uploaded free, either on the teenage girls myspace or on some blog or on one of the *chan websites. No money involved, and the creators didn't even have money in mind.

Porn stopped being an industry on the advent of myspace and other social networking sites.

Some musicians still believe music should be a buisness, that they should buy and sell their music and that they need money to motivate them. This is why your idea won't work. Too many upcomming bands have fantasies of grandeur. Not like porn stars, they just snap the pictures and are done with it. Hmm, hopefully that doesn't spark a pay-the-artist debate...

my only problem with the porn industry is that you can't see them live like in the music industry.... bad joke.
Find a hooker/stripper or find a pretty girl with low self-esteem. Really not that hard.

i dont think porn stars can get reconized by them self.
You'd be suprised. Tomboy-chan, perfect-chan, cracky-chan

Well thank god for anonymity, I just made myself look like a complete perv...
#19
Wait, pornography on the electric internets?

Er, how do porn barons make their money nowadays? I suspect that the 3 dollars a month they get off the few thousand subscribers to the bigger sites covers rent and food and then the rest they do for fun.
#20
Quote by Nike-Man
There are way too many assumptions in your idea.

He didnt make a statement he said he was wondering. He never claimed to have any facts instead just the opposite that he was curious and didnt know. Its not wrong to have assumption this is the basis of science and how our society advanced itself. If people never came up with assumptions, ideas and questions we would have no internet and you wouldnt even have a guitar. Its only wrong to state your assumptions as fact without proof which he did not.

Back on topic : I heard a radio bit just a few weeks ago that was saying the few businesses that didnt go down during the current global ressesion. Among the ones the named the alchohol industry and porn industry. It doenst say if its internet based porn sales or dvd based though. Id bet a big chunk of the porn idustry is pay sites and people are still willing to pay for sites that cater to their indvidual feteshes. Im sure if someone googled this topic they would find some interesting articles.
Last edited by /-\liceNChains at Dec 6, 2008,
#21
Quote by xxdarrenxx
Because makers of porn movies are probably rich ass pimps from miami, who would pay big bucks to see them doing live action, and film it just for an extra cash.

Then you also have the strippers, and the hookers.


Around my area hookers and strippers are one in the same.

The largest porn area is not miami its whats called the silicon valley in california. Ive heard that over 90 something percent of all american porn is made in x amount of square miles thier. I cant remember the exact figures but basically the vast majority comes from that one area.
#22
Interesting debate.

I think what Chris mentioned about the ease of downloading an mp3 that's a few megs versus a whole movie actually means that the movie industry is actually behind the music industry in this transition. So what happens when we have our next jump in bandwidth like the previous one from dialup->DSL/broadband, and you can stream movies at full HD from the internet and play them through your 50" TV that is hooked up to your computer?

Well, one good thing that will happen from that is that we will finally be able to kill off the crappy mp3 format and go back to listening to high quality music (one of the main reasons I still buy CDs and only listen to mp3 to find new bands that I might like).

So, why would a television network pay mega millions for the right to broadcast the superbowl? Well, if you show the superbowl, you have over half the TV viewing audience of the US watching your station. Which means you can charge $3 million per 30 second spot for commercials.

Other than the cable subscription, the viewer "downloads" everything from TV free, yet still mega bucks are made.

Theoretically, the same thing works for the internet. Make something which is highly in demand available for download/streaming free, then make the money from the advertising.
It just seems that the process hasn't matured the same way it has for TV, which is why we have all these teething problems.

So if you have a high quality porn movie with known stars, you can sell it to a site which will make money from advertising interesting toys and services.
Same applies to regular movies on a larger scale, as well as music.

So, everyone makes money and all the porn stars/regular actors/musicians/viewers/listeners are happy. Like I said though, the transition just isn't complete yet, hence the problems.
#23
i look at it like this:

to get decent quality video of any kind, you're going to have to download a respectably sized file. i don't know about anyone else, but if i download a movie, i want the full dvd rip which can be up to 9 gigs on a double layered dvd. thats a lot of downloading. i don't like watching movies on my computer monitor, i'd rather watch it on tv. as for mp3's, you can download an entire discography in a couple hours on even the slowest of dsl connections as long as you have a decent group of people to leech off of. now once i have those mp3's i can burn a cd and listen in my car, throw it on my mp3 player and listen anywhere else or i can listen at home on my pc. as for the movies, you're generally restricted to your pc or pc device (ipod/iphone etc for those blessed to have them) unless you download the full dvd which you can then watch on your pc, tv, your friends house or anywhere with a dvd player.
#24
Quote by /-\liceNChains
Around my area hookers and strippers are one in the same.

The largest porn area is not miami its whats called the silicone valley in california. Ive heard that over 90 something percent of all american porn is made in x amount of square miles thier. I cant remember the exact figures but basically the vast majority comes from that one area.

important minor fix.
#25
Quote by /-\liceNChains
He didnt make a statement he said he was wondering. He never claimed to have any facts instead just the opposite that he was curious and didnt know. Its not wrong to have assumption this is the basis of science and how our society advanced itself. If people never came up with assumptions, ideas and questions we would have no internet and you wouldnt even have a guitar. Its only wrong to state your assumptions as fact without proof which he did not.

Back on topic : I heard a radio bit just a few weeks ago that was saying the few businesses that didnt go down during the current global ressesion. Among the ones the named the alchohol industry and porn industry. It doenst say if its internet based porn sales or dvd based though. Id bet a big chunk of the porn idustry is pay sites and people are still willing to pay for sites that cater to their indvidual feteshes. Im sure if someone googled this topic they would find some interesting articles.


Oh porn and music is science?! Shut the fluck up!

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#26
Quote by Nike-Man
Oh porn and music is science?! Shut the fluck up!


This is the second time in as many posts that you have demonstrated the fact that you don't read very well, do you?

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#27
I've done some googling. Allegedly, the porn industry and music industries make about the same amount of money. Running your own 'pay for porn' site is more likely to lose money than it is to make money. The big money is in major media corporations providing things like in-room movies for hotels. One statistic I read was that about 70% of hotel bills include a pay for porn charge. That was really surprising for me. Well... at least sort of surprising,

Like the music industry, it seems that when the big corporate players get involved, there can be lots of money to be made. The person who tries to DIY winds up making little more than a hobby out of it. Kinda like music.

What does all this mean for the music industry? I still don't know. Having a corporate media franchise beaming music into hotel rooms, etc. does not seem to be a real money-maker. People would just listen to the radio.... or their iPod.

There is nothing illicit about being a consumer of music, so it can be done so more openly, and therefore, is more difficult to control how, when, and where it is consumed. Porn sort of self-selects in terms of the how, when and where it is consumed. It is not as ubiquitous as music in that respect.

As far as touring goes.... I think a lot of porn actors/actresses do strip club tours. Does the live show help support the media product, and does the media product help support the live show? Yes, I would think so.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#28
Nice post, CT.

Quote by Nike-Man


Chill out. Not necessary. And pornography and music are both entertainment/art, depending. There's definately a lot of science in the latter, and I'm afraid I know too little about the former to really comment.
#29
There are still adult film stores, but it does seem that most pornography is online.

I think music is eventually all going to be online, save concerts. It would be perfectly reasonable and even a good environmental idea (that's how we hook the rock stars!) to get rid of CDs and just have record labels or even individual bands have their music available to download like in the iTunes Store.

Quote by Freepower
I'm afraid I know too little about the former to really comment.
There's all kinds of physiology involved with sex! It's actually really interesting to study sex from that perspective rather than just learning from 9th-grade health class.
Last edited by bangoodcharlote at Dec 7, 2008,
#31
Interesting, I was kinda talking about this with my friend the other day. We were joking about how both are sort of "leeches" of society, providing services that are extraneous and yet managing to survive so effectively.