#1
It just seems the sound fade very soon when i play the 14th fret of the 4th string..
While other fret seems to be fine, is that normal?

The guitar is a Fernandes MG360s (mockingbird style) if that will help to explain..
#2
Has your neck begun to bow? That might explain things. If you have an adjustable bridge you should raise that fvcker just enough for the 14th fret to ring clearly.

[IN PHIL WE TRUST]


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#3
What do you mean by begun to bow?
It is a neck-thru guitar.

And I checked it in during my flight last time, since they don't allow me to bring it with me unless I buy an extra ticket for it..

But I put bubbles inside the hard case, then bubble on the outside case and a brown box outside.

I don't know anything about adjustable bridge.. but I assume only guitar with whammy bar has an adjustable bridge...

Would new set of string help?
#4
your neck has not enough relief try adjusting it at nut of the neck and your guitar will have much more sustain
#5
Quote by Edo
your neck has not enough relief try adjusting it at nut of the neck and your guitar will have much more sustain


No it won't. You're telling him to adjust the truss rod I presume, and if so he won't get any relief at the 14th fret from doing so. The neck is fairly stationary at that point just as it is at the 1st fret. No amount of truss rod adjusting will effect these two areas. A better bet would be to check for high/low frets in that area, or a buldged fretboard in the vacinity of the 14th fret.
The truss rod adjusts for neck relief by adding to/taking away the natural inward curvature of the fretboard caused by the pull of the strings. This curvature is most pronounced in the middle of the adjustable area of the truss rod, namely the 7th fret, and becomes less apparent the farther out you travel from that point. Go out far enough and the truss rod has no bearing on string height from the frets.
#6
Quote by LeftyDave
No it won't. You're telling him to adjust the truss rod I presume, and if so he won't get any relief at the 14th fret from doing so. The neck is fairly stationary at that point just as it is at the 1st fret. No amount of truss rod adjusting will effect these two areas. A better bet would be to check for high/low frets in that area, or a buldged fretboard in the vacinity of the 14th fret.
The truss rod adjusts for neck relief by adding to/taking away the natural inward curvature of the fretboard caused by the pull of the strings. This curvature is most pronounced in the middle of the adjustable area of the truss rod, namely the 7th fret, and becomes less apparent the farther out you travel from that point. Go out far enough and the truss rod has no bearing on string height from the frets.

13th and 16th fret has no problem.
The most pronounced problem is at 14th fret, 15th fret has a little less sustain, but not that much problem..
Other string's 14th fret has no problem as well..
#7
Or your Pick up has come out aLil
Lol, My mates guitar does that sound beyond the 14th fret on EVERY string xD
#8
Quote by pacmandemon
Or your Pick up has come out aLil
Lol, My mates guitar does that sound beyond the 14th fret on EVERY string xD

I don't think you know what you're talking about... His guitar might do that, but its not anything to do with the pickup...

Please don't say stuff when you really don't know what you're talking about
#9
Quote by hidehide
13th and 16th fret has no problem.
The most pronounced problem is at 14th fret, 15th fret has a little less sustain, but not that much problem..
Other string's 14th fret has no problem as well..


Check the straightness of the entire neck. Got a capo? Pop it on at the first fret, or just fret each string one by one at the first. Now individually fret each string at the last fret of the board, 22 or 24, whichever is the last one on your guitar. The strings will make a perfect straight edge with which to gauge the neck by. It's most helpful when trying to diagnose these sorts of problems. They will usually show up on the outer strings, low and high E. I've seen some necks have a hump in them near where the neck is joined to the body of the guitar, sort of a slight angle change at that point. On most it's so slight to be insignificant, but on others it can be more pronounced and give some of the problems like what you are referring to. You want to check clearances between the strings and crowns of all the frets. You should have the most clearance at around the 7th or 8th fret, and have less as you go outward. If you can manage to pluck each string while doing the double fret thing, then listen for buzzing and see if you can track it down.
#10
So you mean capo on 1st fret.. then use my hand to fret the 24 fret..
Then check the space between the string and the fret??
#12
I just did that.. its hard to see the space difference..
But I notice the 4th string is higher when comparing to the 3rd string with 1st and 24th fret being pressed down.
#13
What you are looking for here is that no other frets besides the 2 you are fretting are touching any of the strings. There won't be much room I agree, but there should be SOME. Just a sliver of light is enough to tell you that the neck is pretty straight. Now, if it's so straight that you've got the same gap below all of the strings along the whole length of the neck, then you need a tad bit more neck relief. This involves loosening the truss rod about 1/4 turn, NO MORE. Overdoing it here can really whack out your neck, plus the neck needs time to settle into it's new position. I can't stress enough, it's not an instant change! It could take a day or two before the stiff wood of the neck flexes enough to make a noticible difference. Too many times people aren't patient enough and think that this adjustment is a quickie, so they jump the gun and crank away on the truss rod some more. What they wind up is, well, less than perfect. Give this a try and adjust only based on your findings.
The other thing that you'll be looking for is an abnormal raised fret. The double fretting thing is quite useful.
#14
Thanks for the information.
There are gaps between the fret and the string, what I mean in the previous reply is that, I can't tell which fret has the largest gap.
It seems the 8-9th fret has the largest gap.

However, the 4th string seems to be a little higher on other strings..
#15
Good deal. That's the precise area where the gap should be the greatest. The neck needs to have that inward bow to it in order for the strings to vibrate cleanly and not "fret out".
So it seems that the 4th string is higher than the others? There's not much to be done about that unfortunately, since it's an acoustic. If electric you could raise/lower individual bridge saddles to compensate for that. The only option you have for changing a single strings height is a) change the depth of the slot in the nut for that string or b) compensate the saddle with a file.
Here's another thought though. Next time you have all of your strings off, remove the bridge saddle piece and check in the slot in the bridge for debris like shavings or an uneven base. See, the saddle contact with the bridge, ESPECIALLY the bottom of the slot is THE critical contact point for the transmission of the strings vibrations to the soundboard. So, if there's something in there under the 4th string area, it's possible it could be acting like a mute and dampening down the sustain of that string. This is a long shot tho. I'll do more research and get back to you.

Edit: In keeping with the "KISS" rule, I have to ask; are you fretting that string properly at that point? I know it sounds overly basic, but your fretting technique could cause sustain to drop off quickly, especially if your fingertip is on the fret wire.
Last edited by LeftyDave at Dec 12, 2008,
#16
LeftyDave, Im really thankful for all your help.

I think you have some misunderstanding in my post? It is an electric guitar, not acoustic.

On the bridge, it seems I can adjust the height of individual string. However, I have no knowledge on the hardware of guitar.

Here is a pic of the pickup.. but its not so clear..
http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/9009/dsc00263zz5.jpg
#17
That's just too funny. Here all this time I was assuming it was an acoustic guitar!

Unfortunately, that guitar has a what's called a Tune-O-Matic style bridge. Two piece typical Gibson style bridge/tail stopbar setup. You can raise/lower the whole bridge or either side by turning the thumbwheels just below each side of the bridge, but not individual strings. If it were a Stratocaster type then you could do them individually.

Basically, we're right back where we started.
I'm not done though. Once I get started on something like this, I tend to stick with it until I know what's going on. I'll get back to you.

And sorry for the misunderstanding. My bad.
#18
Haha, no worry.

I just found an very very interesting thing..

I have the guitar tuned half step down.
Now the sustain problem no longer on the 14th fret of the 4th string, but now its on the 15th fret, which is the same note as before.

Will this justify that its not the guitar's problem??
Maybe the string?? Or the pickup??
Last edited by hidehide at Dec 13, 2008,
#19
Does the sustain fade the same amount on each pickup when you select them individually? If it's just on one and not the other, then there's your issue more than likely. You can adjust the height of the pups just like you can do it to the bridge. On humbuckers, you can also sometimes adjust the individual pole pieces up or down to fine tune the pickup to each string so you get an even volume from each one. Hard to see from the pic you posted if you have that type, but it looks like they are. If they are individually adjustable, you'll see that 6 of the silver tips of the pole pieces on the pickup will have a slot for a screwdriver, and the other 6 will be flat. Those are one of the adjusting points.
And yes, new strings is always a good bet whenever you suspect you have a tuning, sustain, tone, issue. Cheap insurance.
Know how to check your intonation? You should do that on that string if so. It's just something I've been thinking about, since the note in question is E. 14th fret of the standard tuned 4th string is an E note. 1/2 step down and the 15th fret becomes the E note. There are 2 other E notes that could be going along for the ride too unless you're muting them as you play that note. The 1st and 6th strings. I've been thinking about resonance and cancelling out of the harmonic overtone if all 3 notes are not in unison. Sort of like 2 waves in a pool of water heading at each other then colliding. They hit, then split apart, creating different frequencies. It is possible if the intonation on that string is off, that this could be happening, and it's certainly not unheard of.
So, new strings. Check intonation. Adjust pickups if need be. Might be all you need.
#20
Unfortunately, the neck pickup position is a sustainer driver, so there is only one pickup on the guitar..
But the thing is, I can hear it fade earlier than other fret by just plugging the string and hear the notes, without an amp.

Check intonation, is that playing a natural harmonics on the 12th fret and then play a normal 12th fret through a tuner and check whether they are on the same note? If so, yes they are.

Maybe the last bet is to change strings..
I will do it later and see if it works.

Thanks for your help!

Edit: Just changed the 4th string first.. seems to be the same.. im going to eat sth, then I will get back and double check whether it is the same or not.
Last edited by hidehide at Dec 13, 2008,
#21
When checking intonation, first make sure that your string in question is tuned to a standard open note, in this case D. Get it as close to dead on as you can cuz it'll be easier to decipher the intonation if you have a good baseline to start from. Then fret that string at the 12th fret, not the harmonic there. The harmonic is the same note as the open string and doesn't really give you any comparison. But the fretted 12th is the same note AND it's one octave higher than open. Now you have something to make a comparison to. If the fretted 12th is sharper than the open, move the saddle for that string away from the fretboard, and vice versa if it's flat.
#22
Ok.. Actually after changing all the strings, the sustain seems to be better than before..
It should solve the problem by now..

But one question, I just put in a D'Addario XL Nickel Wound, Super tops/Reg Bottoms.
It seems the have buzz when i try to hit the 5th & 6th string real hard, or when i try to slide in the higher frets of 5th & 6th string..
The strings are:
.009 .011 .016 .026 .036 .046

It seems the string are very soft and vibrates width is large.
Or because those strings are too thick for my current settings?
Last edited by hidehide at Dec 13, 2008,
#23
This right here is where the beauty of the Tune-O-Matic style bridge comes into play. Just raise the side of the bridge a tad that's giving you the buzzing. It'll help you to give the strings some slack first, but at any rate, just turn the thumbwheel under whichever side of the bridge that's prone to buzzing. A little is all it'll take. Buzz should disappear instantly.
Strat style bridges would have you cranking away on the saddles with a allen wrench to get rid of it. But they do have more adjustment points than the Tune-O's do. Try that.
Those btw are a decent set and gauge of string. I myself use hybrid slinkies on my Gibson SG, which are really close to what you have on. They give me better bass response, and are nice and bendy for lead work.
Seems we have you ironed out now. Let me know how it plays after you tweak the bridge.
Luck to ya!
#24
Which one should i tweak? the one near the pickup or the one at the end??
By using a screwdriver? it seems to be hard to turn either one.

BTW, how do u like your gibson SG? I'm planning to get a ESP Ltd Viper 400/1000 as my primary practice guitar
Last edited by hidehide at Dec 13, 2008,
#25
You'd probably want to turn the one on the low E side of the bridge. Make sure you are adjusting the bridge thumbwheel, not the stop bar. Loosen up the strings first and it'll make it way easier to turn them. No screwdriver needed(you can't use a screwdriver on them anyway, no slot). Look at the pic below:

This is a typical tune-o-matic bridge. The thumbwheel is the bit with the two pins sticking out of each end of it, laying by itself at the top of the pic(the other one is in the bridge). The actual screws that you see, 6 of them, are for moving your saddles back and forth to adjust intonation. Don't mess with those.

Love my SG. Since it's been my dream guitar forever, I had to have one and now that I do, I don't regret a thing. Tony Iommi is my inspiration for this choice.
#26
Thanks for clearing the matter.
Yes, there is a flat screw for me to turn which leads the thumbwheel to turn together.

I tried to raise it up.. about 1.5 turn.. now one side of the bridge is high.. it has lesser buzz now.. but still there is..
Is it because the string i put has too low in tension??
Its d'addario EXL125..
#27
Nope, those strings should be just fine for that guitar. Normally thinner strings like those don't buzz unless the action is really really low. Is it possible that the previous owner had the action way too low and you simply need to raise it back up a bit until it's good? You did say you got the guitar used right?
#28
I have already raised it very high..
Its like a nylon acoustic guitar string height now...

The string just seems to have too low tension.. The vibration width is so big..
7.94kg.. while i see other type of strings are 9.xx or 11.xx

Maybe I need heavier string?? Since now when I press on the high E string, I can feel its thinner than the previous one.
I just read some post, some people say .009 strings are too loose..

I might try .010 or .011...
Since I usually play half step down, the low E and A string buzz when they are standard tuned...

So pretty much I wasted the new set of strings then..
Last edited by hidehide at Dec 14, 2008,