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#1
Sooo.... I have just completed my computer programming course.... and I finally thought of an excellent use! Create a program that will give you the min and max weight of your guitar given certain specifications, like tummy cut or not, what woods (to a certain degree), how many pickups and of what type (humbucker or not) and style (LP, SG, super strat and strat).

Is this epic or do people not care about the weight of their guitars?

EDIT: THIS IS SO YOU CAN DETERMINE THE WEIGHT BEFORE YOU BUILD YOUR GUITAR.
Last edited by ESP_Shreder at Dec 11, 2008,
#3
Quote by SlashYourFug
or you could weigh them?


This, as simple as it is.
Gear
Fender Thinline Telecaster Deluxe

1983 Aria Pro II XX Deluxe Flying V

2007 S101 EGU34

1963 Kay Vanguard

1964 Kay Vanguard

AXL Badwater SRO

Hondo Strat

1974 Acoustic(brand) 134 4x10 combo

Epiphone Valve Jr.
#5
Quote by SlashYourFug
or you could weigh them?




But really TS, I don't care much for the weight as long as its light.
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#9
Quote by qstionauthority
it's called maths, or a calculator. find the density of your wood and then estimate with maths.

I love how you people add an s to your math.
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#10
I think it would be neat but perhaps not really useful as I imagine weight comes in towards the bottom of list of things to care about. Personally, I'd take sound and looks wayyy over weight.

What language did you learn?
#11
ummm...

different pieces of wood, even from the same tree will weigh differently.

just saying.
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#12
I learned c++ and matlab. That's why you have a range. max and min values. It's more applicable for neck thru builds since neck thru has the tone favored by the choice of neck woods
#13
I would go towards just using the weight of the wood and maybe things like the bridge and tuners to determine the weight of the guitar. Just use the common density of the wood and then somehow come up with a formula to estimate the volume of the guitar, maybe some sort of integration method that uses a graph of the guitar and takes the area between two curves representing the guitar and then multiplying by the thickness.
#14
Different pieces of wood can vary in weight a lot so that could be a pretty big problem.
#15
ok. well. This is not meant to be the end all be all of weight determination. Wood weights have a range. I plan on using this range. I plan on outputting a min value, a max value and a mean value. I also plan on including hardware. I could need some help getting some "data" because I don't have access to certain bridges and etc. Also for your builds and I don't have the wood listed... send me the size and weight so I can add it to my list!

as far as creating the formula.... I plan on finding out the surface area of each body style. Use the thickness that is input via user as the multiplier. That's at least for the body and most likely the headstock too. Neck I think I will use a "fat" profile and a "thin profile and assume a certain style curve.

As far as multiple woods go. I will prompt if it is a laminate top or not. If so how thick is the laminate and of what wood type. So the thickness equation will have two parts, top density and bottom density. Both will be the same if no top is present though.

Also maybe since tone is related to density... maybe I could include a tone meter on either bright or warm tone?
#16
this sounds very interesting.

when you get it finished, you need to share the program. please?

make sure to factor in for weight relieving.
Quote by FatalGear41
I wouldn't call what we have here on the Bass Forum a mentality. It's more like the sharing part of an AA meeting.

Quote by Jason Jillard
HUMANITY WHATS WRONG WITH YOU.


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http://www.myspace.com/rustingbloom
#17
CATIA v5

You have to model your guitar parts in 3D, apply them a material with density and it calculates weight of it. The more accurate your 3D model it is, the more precise the weight will be. And modelling a guitar in 3D is not as complicated as it seems.

Also, 3DStudio Max calculates the volume (which is the complicated math)

If you can use any CAD sofwtare, like Autocad, CATIA will be easier to use


And maybe more cost-efficient would be Photoshop. I think I remember it has a option to calculate the surface of a selection (could be view->info?). So, take a picture or drawing of the guitar, select its contour, calculate surface and dot thickness. Prolly Neck weight wouldnt need any program to be calcutaed.
Last edited by bazuriya at Dec 12, 2008,
#18
Awesome Ideas. Now we need some more data. I need the weights of uncommon woods. A.k.a LP, Ormsby, or any one else who uses exotic woods. Please post here. Contributing to this project would also increase the speed drastically. I think I will start this after my finals (a.k.a next week).

list of woods I currently have in my data:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/wood-density-d_40.html
#19
Good luck on it. Glad to see you are trying to utilize what you've learned which imo, is key to truly understanding it. Applying it to something that interests you is the way to go.
#20
thanks. I figure it could be a good way to study for the exam too... Loophole into getting this program done much faster??? oh yes.
#21
Bazuriya is right. This is not the kind of thing C++ or matlab can handle - you would have to re-write the program for each and every guitar because of the massively differing geometry. It would actually be easier to do this by hand, splitting the guitar up into sectors of simple geometry, calculating the volume of each sector, using average densities, and adding it all up. After all, the maths wouldn't be that hard.

The only way i can see matlab being able to handle this is using some kind of volume integral - which again, would probably just about be easier to do by hand. Not to mention the difficulty in programming a guitar shape as an equation.

If you want to do it with a pc, you need to use something like CAD, or a 3d modelling program.


On the other hand, if you're not concerned about accuracy in the slightest, you could probably get decent estimates by modelling ALL guitars as uniform thin cylinders, and all necks as a semi-cirular prism, then all you need to know is
a) laminate top or not?
b) 1/3/5 piece neck?
c) approx. weight of all the hardware.
d) density of wood.
and then C++ can do everything you want in seconds. This would probably be much more useful for determining the maximum weight, but i guess thats the back-breaking number one would really be interested in, isn't it?

EDIT: ok, now you've got me thinking about this, i'm probably gonna come up with loads of ideas, only have of which are any use.

To save you having to build a massive database of wood densities, i'd have the program accept average density input rather than types of wood. This has the other advantage that if you already have your blanks, you could get a really accurate estimate by measuring the average density of the blanks and using that as input.
Last edited by Mad_BOB at Dec 12, 2008,
#22
well using mad_bobs idea for a thin cylinder is a good idea for awkward shapes, you could just pull off a random percentage (say 20% ?) to make up for the shaping of the blank

For more common shapes you could find the average percentage of surface area a strat/lp/whatever body takes up on it's blank, if that makes any sense

As bob said, the max weight is probably the more important number people would be looking for, so this could work...

Also, control cavity routes will make up a large part of the weight, so maybe you could draw up some simple pictures of common cavity routes, and have the user choose one... Knowing which route they are using, you could calculate the volume of it before hand

just some ideas
Last edited by HibyPrime at Dec 12, 2008,
#23
Quote by LaGrange
I love how you people add an s to your math.


The word is Mathematics.

Something can "be" mathematical (equation, problem) or you can "do" Mathematics.

Seeing as we people were here first and you were there second, it is you people, who remove an "s" from our Math's.

#24
BTW CATIA also calculates the center of mass!
Last edited by bazuriya at Dec 12, 2008,
#25
You've just invented Microsoft Excel?
Actually called Mark!

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#26
Quote by steven seagull
You've just invented Microsoft Excel?


hehe, doh!

of course, a spreadsheet would do most things we've been talking about... *feels very stupid*
#27
Once I made a program in MatLab to calculate the weight of an airfoil rib.

But theres plenty of libraries on the net of the points of the contour of airfoils. Thats the problem here.

If anyone has the coordinates of the contour of the guitar body (or knows how to extract it from a picture) that would be pretty easy. I could share my program.
#28
Quote by bazuriya
Once I made a program in MatLab to calculate the weight of an airfoil rib.

But theres plenty of libraries on the net of the points of the contour of airfoils. Thats the problem here.

If anyone has the coordinates of the contour of the guitar body (or knows how to extract it from a picture) that would be pretty easy. I could share my program.


Could start out with shapes composed entirely (or at least mostly) of straight lines, like V's, explorers, destroyers etc. They wouldn't be too hard, just a set of gradients and lengths rather than a whole library of coordinates [of course, matlab would have to save it as coordinates, but we wouldn't have to figure that bit out].

Curvy and contoured body shapes would be much harder tho. It could be done, but i'm thinking it would take a while, you'ld probably have to analyse each curve seperately, and then put it all back together. Might be worth doing as a group project, but sounds like too much work for one person.
#29
Of course, you really have no need what so ever, to know the exact weight of the guitar, before you build it.

Even if you did, you then have to remove material, to match the weight and you cant really do that.

So the easiest way, is to know what the weight of material you would be starting with, weighs and it will be less than that.

If you wanted to, you could do some rough calculating of some of the curves you would cut out and the volume of material, to get it as near as possible, then add the weight of hardware.
#30
Yes MADBOB youre right. For contoured body shapes I think it would be more cost efficient to use a 3D CAD program.

If someday I dare to build my own guitar, for sure Id model it in 3D before to see how it looks like, how parts are going to be joined, weight, balance...


As theres a lot of people here in GB&C building their own guitars, why just dont ask them to weight their parts (and type of wood, I mean density), so we have a library of weights given body shape? Would be easy and accurate.
#31
That may be a good idea. Personally, I would avoid building a 11 lbs guitar at all costs! MAD_BOB what do you mean rewrite? wouldn't it be effective to create a library for standard shapes and measure the surface area of the top of these shapes and multiply by the thickness?
#32
Quote by ESP_Shreder
That may be a good idea. Personally, I would avoid building a 11 lbs guitar at all costs! MAD_BOB what do you mean rewrite? wouldn't it be effective to create a library for standard shapes and measure the surface area of the top of these shapes and multiply by the thickness?


The shapes are not of uniform thickness (well, most arnt) having various carves and contours. Generating the library in the first place would be more effort than its worth. Tho i was actually working from the idea of using the dimensions to generate a volume, which would be really hellish, and why i said it would need re-writing. If you're not worried about adding an extra degree of uncertainty, treating all guitars as uniform thickness could work.
#33
Quote by LaGrange
I love how you people add an s to your math.


lol um we brits called it maths before you called it math
we are the ones who actually speak english.
you speak american
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#34
Mad_BOB. I was thinking that the user could input the desired thickness and body style. After the body style S.A. is determined, multiply it by the thickness to get volume. That's for the body at least. The for the contours, either have them or not. Most cuts are of similar shape, so just get the volume experimentally and add or subtract that.
#35
Fair enough - it would work, as long as you have a library of the areas of the various guitar shapes, which we would have to build.
#36
Quote by Skeet UK
The word is Mathematics.

Something can "be" mathematical (equation, problem) or you can "do" Mathematics.

Seeing as we people were here first and you were there second, it is you people, who remove an "s" from our Math's.



And now you add an apostrophe to your maths, thus creating "math's"
If you were to just call it "math", you would no longer have confusion over whether to add an apostrophe or not, therefore our "math" is much more comfortable to say, and much, much easier to write gramatically correct.




Relative to the topic, I honestly don't care a whole lot about the weight of my guitar, as long as it sounds good.
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#37
Math's is incorrect. That would imply "Math is"
Gear
Fender Thinline Telecaster Deluxe

1983 Aria Pro II XX Deluxe Flying V

2007 S101 EGU34

1963 Kay Vanguard

1964 Kay Vanguard

AXL Badwater SRO

Hondo Strat

1974 Acoustic(brand) 134 4x10 combo

Epiphone Valve Jr.
#38
Maths is would be "maths'"
...Wouldn't it?
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#40
Another direction you could take this program is to determine the center of balance of guitars given an input of body, neck, and headstock density and dimensions. While weight is relatively easy to estimate within a pound, many people creating custom designs have no idea if their guitar will have bad balance or horrible neckdive.
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