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#1
Hey guys. I'm saving up for a new head, but I'm stuck between these two. I play metal pretty much but I want good cleans. I don't use crunch or any lo gain stuff. My only problem is that the Fireball has a shared gain and EQ.... but really, what's the better deal? I'm from the UK and I only wanna spend about £600 - £900. Help me out.
#3
search ebay for the fireball, found one in good condtion for £599
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#4
Get the 6505. Do a search on how many signed bands have dropped their engl fireballs and powerballs for the 6505. Chimaira was using the engl powerball for a while and they said they were stupid for doing it and went to the 6505. Also everyone I've met who has owned both the 6505 and engl powerball or fireball has said they'd choose their 6505 over it anyday. When playing with bands that use the engl's they always compliment my tone and try to trade me their engl for my peavey. You need to try both out and see what's for you but search around for some clips and you'll find the peavey is not only cheaper but has more balls than both engl's. The engl is a bit more bright. They are still similar in tone. The engl isn't worth the extra cash. I had the option of going with an engl for cheaper than a 6505. A guy was selling the powerball for 800 bucks. I ended up buying a new 6505 for 1200. I just simply thought it sounded better. Talk to people who have both... Or have tried both before they bought like me. Don't listen to people who assume engl is better because it's more expensive or because they own one and have a biased opinion.
#5
Quote by hcsn2008
Get the 6505. Do a search on how many signed bands have dropped their engl fireballs and powerballs for the 6505. Chimaira was using the engl powerball for a while and they said they were stupid for doing it and went to the 6505. Also everyone I've met who has owned both the 6505 and engl powerball or fireball has said they'd choose their 6505 over it anyday. When playing with bands that use the engl's they always compliment my tone and try to trade me their engl for my peavey. You need to try both out and see what's for you but search around for some clips and you'll find the peavey is not only cheaper but has more balls than both engl's. The engl is a bit more bright. They are still similar in tone. The engl isn't worth the extra cash. I had the option of going with an engl for cheaper than a 6505. A guy was selling the powerball for 800 bucks. I ended up buying a new 6505 for 1200. I just simply thought it sounded better. Talk to people who have both... Or have tried both before they bought like me. Don't listen to people who assume engl is better because it's more expensive or because they own one and have a biased opinion.


You raise a fair point man, thanks alot, I'll ask around.
#7
^ if he is getting either, he must like gain.

and i can say the peavey is the best amp i have ever played.
IMO, it is at least.
it suits me so well, and i have tried many Mesas, VHTs, Deizels, and ENGL's.
they all sounded good, but the peavey was more for me.
it really all depends on what you like.
either way, both amps are great.
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#8
The peavey is a whole other kind of monster....

Honestly, it does have a decent clean channel....but the 6505 IS meant as a high gain beast, and I feel it does struggle when it comes to other types of music....
#9
6505+. Now if it was Powerball or 6505+ that would be tough, but the Fireballs don't impress me that much.
#10
Quote by hcsn2008
Get the 6505. Do a search on how many signed bands have dropped their engl fireballs and powerballs for the 6505. Chimaira was using the engl powerball for a while and they said they were stupid for doing it and went to the 6505. Also everyone I've met who has owned both the 6505 and engl powerball or fireball has said they'd choose their 6505 over it anyday. When playing with bands that use the engl's they always compliment my tone and try to trade me their engl for my peavey. You need to try both out and see what's for you but search around for some clips and you'll find the peavey is not only cheaper but has more balls than both engl's. The engl is a bit more bright. They are still similar in tone. The engl isn't worth the extra cash. I had the option of going with an engl for cheaper than a 6505. A guy was selling the powerball for 800 bucks. I ended up buying a new 6505 for 1200. I just simply thought it sounded better. Talk to people who have both... Or have tried both before they bought like me. Don't listen to people who assume engl is better because it's more expensive or because they own one and have a biased opinion.


Now how many bands with good tone?

TS: I'd go with the ENGL. Much better gain IMO. Not buzzy beehive undefined gain. USABLE clear gain.

Also I've never heard ANYONE that has tried both amps say that the 6505 is better.

I had the 6505, and returned it sounded terrible. I think the 6505 bandwagon is getting way too big lol. I just dont get the hype
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#11
I think with a 1200 price tag it should have more than 1 tone.

You checked out orange?
#12
Quote by WACOM
I think with a 1200 price tag it should have more than 1 tone.



/thread.


ENGL
#14
Quote by RG_FANMAN
6505+. Now if it was Powerball or 6505+ that would be tough, but the Fireballs don't impress me that much.

Yah but 6505+ is about £900 and the Powerball is about £1300. And I definitely can't go that high.
Quote by WACOM
You checked out orange?

I have. Being from England I feel a sort of affinity towards them. But I'd only consider the Rockerverb... But I don't think it's meaty enough. Which is also why I don't want a JCM800. I just don't dig it.

I tried the 6505+ and I loved the lead, but I was a total idiot and forgot to check out the clean so I have no idea of how good it is, whereas with the ENGL I've heard the clean channel a million times and it sounds so sweet... Any opinions on the 6505+ clean? There's so many different opinions it's hard to know what to trust.

I wish i could compare them next to each other, but I can't cos no shops stock both. But thanks everyone for helping me out.
#15
Quote by willyman101
Yah but 6505+ is about £900 and the Powerball is about £1300. And I definitely can't go that high.

I have. Being from England I feel a sort of affinity towards them. But I'd only consider the Rockerverb... But I don't think it's meaty enough. Which is also why I don't want a JCM800. I just don't dig it.

I tried the 6505+ and I loved the lead, but I was a total idiot and forgot to check out the clean so I have no idea of how good it is, whereas with the ENGL I've heard the clean channel a million times and it sounds so sweet... Any opinions on the 6505+ clean? There's so many different opinions it's hard to know what to trust.

I wish i could compare them next to each other, but I can't cos no shops stock both. But thanks everyone for helping me out.


the 6505+ clean is good...but nothing to brag about compared to ENGL....

I really think that the fireball is your best bet in this case. The 6505+ is very linear regardless of what people say. Try and play some classic rock and you will find that the distortion is too fizzy and nasal.... the 6505+ was designed with 2 things in mind.... keep the 5150 tone for t3h br00talz.... and improve upon the clean channel......
#16
How about you TRY THEM BOTH
They are very different sounding amps, only you can try them to see which one you like better.
#17
Quote by Highwaytohell
How about you TRY THEM BOTH
They are very different sounding amps, only you can try them to see which one you like better.


I would if i could. There's a surprisingly small range of amps to try, even on Denmark Street in London.
#18
Quote by doctorcheeze200
^ if he is getting either, he must like gain.

and i can say the peavey is the best amp i have ever played.
IMO, it is at least.
it suits me so well, and i have tried many Mesas, VHTs, Deizels, and ENGL's.
they all sounded good, but the peavey was more for me.
it really all depends on what you like.
either way, both amps are great.


Damn, you have a weird idea of tone if you have played VHT, Diezels and Engls!

Those Peaveys are okay, but only seem to suit gain playing - they have no transparency, fluidity or definition.
#19
Quote by doctorcheeze200
^ if he is getting either, he must like gain.

and i can say the peavey is the best amp i have ever played.
IMO, it is at least.
it suits me so well, and i have tried many Mesas, VHTs, Deizels, and ENGL's.
they all sounded good, but the peavey was more for me.
it really all depends on what you like.
either way, both amps are great.



wow...you must have been doing something terribly wrong >_>
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#20
Quote by davedoom
Damn, you have a weird idea of tone if you have played VHT, Diezels and Engls!

Those Peaveys are okay, but only seem to suit gain playing - they have no transparency, fluidity or definition.


Nah man they definitely have definition. I played the riff from Heir Apparent by Opeth on it and it was so clear, whereas it usually sounds bollocks (probably my playing). Definitely tightened it up though!

Thanks alot for the help guys... I think I might go for the 6505+. It's just easier to find, plus I know what it sounds like and it has what I'm looking for, not too harsh or anything.
#21
Quote by kayman121
Now how many bands with good tone?

TS: I'd go with the ENGL. Much better gain IMO. Not buzzy beehive undefined gain. USABLE clear gain.

Also I've never heard ANYONE that has tried both amps say that the 6505 is better.

I had the 6505, and returned it sounded terrible. I think the 6505 bandwagon is getting way too big lol. I just dont get the hype


Well its not a bandwagon for anyone I know. It's simply the amp sounds better so people buy it. I have met quite a people in person and online who prefer it to their engl powerballs. Check out harmony central forums theres a few guys on there who do and one who has clips of both. If it sounded terrible something was wrong man. The 6505 is also a very sensitive amp. It isn't a plug and go amp. When I first got mine it sounded like crap because I had no idea what I was doing. But now it's really sweet. A 5150 was my first tube amp. I've owned many since over the years. But I always go back to the peavey. I've owned 4 5150/6505's I'd choose it over any amp ive owned.


And to the people about the clean channel. Just simple get a 60 dollar A/b switch and A/b to another amp for the clean channel. That way you can have your fx for your clean channel on the clean amp that has a better clean channel anyway. You won't be turning all those pedals on and off. Just click one switch. hell you could use something as simple as one of the crate v series amps. Which are cheap and sound great for a clean channel amp. I a/b to a bugera 333xl. I use the 333xl's clean channel.
#22
Quote by Highwaytohell
How about you TRY THEM BOTH
They are very different sounding amps, only you can try them to see which one you like better.


+1

i generally prefer engls, but the fireball is probably my least-favourite engl.

Bear in mind, though, that what hcsn2008 is saying about the peavey's being cheaper applies to the USA and not the UK, where the fireball is likely slightly cheaper (though with the falling pound, there's probably not all that much in it any more). The fireball has far nicer cleans... however, the 5150 is probably quite a bit more versatile (apart from cleans/cleanish blues), as with the fireball you have metal and clean, and not much in-between, while with the 5150 the cleans are kinda crappy, but you can get classic rock and rock tones more easily.

Quote by willyman101
I would if i could. There's a surprisingly small range of amps to try, even on Denmark Street in London.


wembley guitar centre. phone/email ahead first to make sure they have both in stock, but they're both engl and peavey dealers, and have sound-proof try-out rooms.
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I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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#23
Quote by Dave_Mc
+1

i generally prefer engls, but the fireball is probably my least-favourite engl.

Bear in mind, though, that what hcsn2008 is saying about the peavey's being cheaper applies to the USA and not the UK, where the fireball is likely slightly cheaper (though with the falling pound, there's probably not all that much in it any more). The fireball has far nicer cleans... however, the 5150 is probably quite a bit more versatile (apart from cleans/cleanish blues), as with the fireball you have metal and clean, and not much in-between, while with the 5150 the cleans are kinda crappy, but you can get classic rock and rock tones more easily.


wembley guitar centre. phone/email ahead first to make sure they have both in stock, but they're both engl and peavey dealers, and have sound-proof try-out rooms.


Ah right. I shall go have a look when I can.

And as for the versatility... I really don't play anything other than hi gain and clean. Classic rock and rock aren't really my bag, just metal. And yeah the issue with the cleans is something I should look into. I could change he EMG 85 to an 89 or something at least, and use the coil tap.

But I'll try and find them to compare... thanks man.
#24


you definitely need to try both head to head, and at volume. as i said, the fireball was my least favourite, but i only play modern metal occasionally, and not being able to get the in-between tones would piss me off (but likely wouldn't annoy you).
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#25
Quote by Dave_Mc


you definitely need to try both head to head, and at volume. as i said, the fireball was my least favourite, but i only play modern metal occasionally, and not being able to get the in-between tones would piss me off (but likely wouldn't annoy you).


Yah man I'll set about it. I have a while anyway, probably won't have enough for it all (getting an orange cab) by Feb anyway. But thanks man, and everyone else.
#26
I've owned both so i'll throw my opinion into the mix.

I'll start off by saying that i give the edge to the Fireball for my tastes.

5150: It has crazy amounts of gain as we all know. The low end is fairly tight, not super tight, not super loose. It's really aggressive sounding, maybe even a little too much for my tastes. If you don't know how to eq very well it will most likely sound like bees, the thing can get really buzzy! When you dial it in though, it's a metal machine. I disliked the lead tones i got, but that could have just been my old pickups. Keep in my mind you will have to crank this thing to lose the fizz and it definitely benefits from a boost and a good noise gate.
I sold mine because it was just a little overly aggressive and buzzy/noisy for me.

Fireball- Has just as much gain as the 5150 if not more. The tone is a little smoother while still retaining the aggressiveness (albeit not quite as aggressive as the 5150). It has a thicker gain structure and a little bit tighter low end (not too big of a difference though). One area where the Engl easily wins is low volume playing. The one bad thing is it can thin out at high (and i mean highhh) volumes, but a 6 or 10 band eq can easily fix that. The clean channel easily surpasses the 5150 but you probably aren't too worried if you're thinking about either of these amps.

Basically the Engl is like smashing someones face in with a sledge hammer and the 5150 is like decapitating them with a machete.
The 5150 cuts amazingly and is really aggressive while the Fireball sounds thick and huge.

Overall i like the Fireball better, but you really need to try them both to see what you like better, don't just listen to us.
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#27
Quote by willyman101
Nah man they definitely have definition. I played the riff from Heir Apparent by Opeth on it and it was so clear, whereas it usually sounds bollocks (probably my playing). Definitely tightened it up though!

Thanks alot for the help guys... I think I might go for the 6505+. It's just easier to find, plus I know what it sounds like and it has what I'm looking for, not too harsh or anything.


Fall and Fail.
#29
take a look at the evh 5150 if you really want great cleans, and huge gain
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#30
I cant believe that some one would choose a peavey over a Engl. Engl amps smoke peavey amps any day. Ive played both amps & I have to say the 6505 has to be one of the worst sounding amp Ive ever heard. I played the Fireball at a few shows, its a awesome amp, alot of gain, great tone. Me & my friend Scott(he's the Paul Gilbert of New York) all ways say this * We rather quit playing guitar then use a peavey*. Engl FTW
#31
Quote by Devilman2020
I cant believe that some one would choose a peavey over a Engl. Engl amps smoke peavey amps any day. Ive played both amps & I have to say the 6505 has to be one of the worst sounding amp Ive ever heard. I played the Fireball at a few shows, its a awesome amp, alot of gain, great tone. Me & my friend Scott(he's the Paul Gilbert of New York) all ways say this * We rather quit playing guitar then use a peavey*. Engl FTW


Something is wrong with you if you think the peavey sounds like crap. You must have not dialed it in right at all. Why would one of the worst sounding amps ever be on 90% of metal records? Come to one of our shows and hear the tone. You'll come out amazed.
#32
Quote by Devilman2020
I cant believe that some one would choose a peavey over a Engl. Engl amps smoke peavey amps any day. Ive played both amps & I have to say the 6505 has to be one of the worst sounding amp Ive ever heard. I played the Fireball at a few shows, its a awesome amp, alot of gain, great tone. Me & my friend Scott(he's the Paul Gilbert of New York) all ways say this * We rather quit playing guitar then use a peavey*. Engl FTW

I would never have chosen my 6505 over an ENGL if I could get one for a comparable price but to go so far as to say that the 6505 has the worst tone of any amp you've ever heard is vastly over estimating the tonal qualities of the amp.

I've heard some pretty bad tone at shows and on record and most of it DID NOT come from a 6505.
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#33
Like I said before I'd choose the peavey over the engl and if you think im crazy look at all the bands that prefer the same things. not to mention owners who are pissed off buying the engl when their 5150 sounds better. Google some vs clips. powerball vs 6505. Powerball has no balls compared to the peavey.
#34
Bands that use ENGL:

-Wintersun
-Judas Priest
-The Scorpions
-Nevermore
-Deep Purple

Bands that use Peavey:

-Chimaira
-In Flames
-Bullet For My Valentine
-Trivium

Now I'm saying, don't base anything off this list. what i'm saying is stop using the argument that xxx band uses xxx amp because ironically, most of the bands that use the 6505 sound like ****. (although not all). just because some band uses it doesnt make it good
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#35
OKay... im confused...

you are telling him to buy the 6505 and then get a separate amp for the clean channel? How about getting the fireball and getting USABLE high gain, AND a good clean channel.....
#36
Quote by kayman121
Bands that use ENGL:

-Wintersun
-Judas Priest
-The Scorpions
-Nevermore
-Deep Purple

Bands that use Peavey:

-Chimaira
-In Flames
-Bullet For My Valentine
-Trivium

Now I'm saying, don't base anything off this list. what i'm saying is stop using the argument that xxx band uses xxx amp because ironically, most of the bands that use the 6505 sound like ****. (although not all). just because some band uses it doesnt make it good


There are much more bands than that. And for one Judas priest may be classic and legendary but their tone isn't that great at all. Nevermore has an okay tone. Im not sure why you think any of those bands sound like crap with the 6505. And not to mention when Chimaira used engl's they weren't satisfied. They went back to their 6505's stock 6505's at that... and are much more happy. I think it's just opinion and it's fine if you think the engl has better tone. I'm all for that kindof opinion. Everyone likes something different. my point is a lot of people here have not tried both. They feel like because the engl is more expensive it's better. Or because they own one they feel it's better just because they have one.
#37
Quote by NJNoise
OKay... im confused...

you are telling him to buy the 6505 and then get a separate amp for the clean channel? How about getting the fireball and getting USABLE high gain, AND a good clean channel.....


Because the fireballs clean channel isnt that great either. When you buy a high gain amp you usually don't buy it for the clean channel. And if you look at most bands on tours that use the clean channel a lot they tend to have another amp. If you use it occasionally then it's fine. But some high gain amps have okay clean channels but none of them have a damn good clean channel like your fender cleans and vox cleans. That's just the way it works. So yeah im saying get the 6505 for your high gain and get another amp for your clean channel.
#38
Quote by hcsn2008
Because the fireballs clean channel isnt that great either. When you buy a high gain amp you usually don't buy it for the clean channel. And if you look at most bands on tours that use the clean channel a lot they tend to have another amp. If you use it occasionally then it's fine. But some high gain amps have okay clean channels but none of them have a damn good clean channel like your fender cleans and vox cleans. That's just the way it works. So yeah im saying get the 6505 for your high gain and get another amp for your clean channel.


Ever used the ENGL E530 preamp?

GODLY cleans and ENGL distortion....
#39
Quote by NJNoise
Ever used the ENGL E530 preamp?

GODLY cleans and ENGL distortion....


Nope I haven't. I am speaking for the fireball and powerball. I mean if you are just talking brand... Ever used a peavey classic 30? It has great cleans. When I buy a high gain amp though I'm focused on the best lead channel I can get. I never even care about the clean channel although I realize some people do. With tube amps though it's hard to get both and they both be damn good. You can get an okay high gain amp with an okay clean channel. You guys really need to look up some fireball vs 6505 . I don't see how you could say the fireball sounds better in any of those cases. And if my 6505 sucked so bad I wouldn't have bands using engl's and vht's saying "man ill trade you my amp for that thing."
#40
Quote by hcsn2008
There are much more bands than that. And for one Judas priest may be classic and legendary but their tone isn't that great at all. Nevermore has an okay tone. Im not sure why you think any of those bands sound like crap with the 6505. And not to mention when Chimaira used engl's they weren't satisfied. They went back to their 6505's stock 6505's at that... and are much more happy. I think it's just opinion and it's fine if you think the engl has better tone. I'm all for that kindof opinion. Everyone likes something different. my point is a lot of people here have not tried both. They feel like because the engl is more expensive it's better. Or because they own one they feel it's better just because they have one.


I think you misinterpret my point. It wasn't a band to band comparison. I was just trying to show that using the argument that this amp is good because this band uses it is foolish. It's all about what the PLAYER themselves wants. Also, personally I think Chimaira has HORRIBLE tone, so them turning down an ENGL just further justifies my belief that they have no ear for tone
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