#1
A while ago, I found an old Kasino amp (200W) in the trash at my neighbor's house. I took it home and it worked. Eventually, I was running a distortion through it and (stupidly) turned the overdrive all the way up, blowing the speaker. So I went out an got a new amp.

It's been a couple of years now, and I've been ruminating on how much I miss the spring reverb. I've been thinking about modding it, and here's what I've come up with:

I plan to put a compatible (same wattage, ohm, etc.) subwoofer speaker into the kasino amp. I want to split the signal between the speaker and a 1/4" jack that I can run a line to my effects pedals and then subsequently to my current guitar amp (Line 6 Spider II 75W - I know, digital piece of ****).

My question isn't "should I do it?" Because I plan to do it anyway. The question is:

Is there anything I should know that would prevent me from making a stupid mistake or that would make this project impossible?
#2
well it might help to try and give a little more detail, or maybe i just didnt understand it well.

from what i understood it sounds like you want to run guitar ---> kasino amp then split. 1. to a speaker and 2. to a line for effects pedals ---> then line 6

well with my beginner but learning knowledge, something would probably blow up.
you dont want amp running to pedals or another amp this would cause problems

if you want to have a your 1 guitar run to 2 amps you should put a split before them(they have pedals made specific for this). so you could have multiple amps for 1 guitar.

i might have misunderstood so let me know if im wrong for what you asked.


Gian
#3
I don't know. You're running 200w of speaker juice through pedals and into a 75w amp? Doesn't sound good to me, but I'm a dumbfck at amps. Pedals (and amp input sections) aren't designed for that kinda juice. A guitar only puts out (nominally) 100mV (0.1v) peak-to-peak. A 200w amp lets go of considerably more than that. A 1w MP3 player can put out around 2 volts (or more) at full volume (mine does anyway). That alone is a 2000% increase.

Amps grounding can be tricky. Simply putting in a 1/4" jack can make it hum like a tree full of bees. I did that to my FM 25R and couldn't figure out how to fix it (without having it on a DPDT switch, i.e. totally isolated from the cassis), so I took it out and then it was back to normal.
#4
You'ld have to take the pre-amp signal, and find a way of taking it to your chain of effects and spider, while keeping the signal going to the amps power stage. Trying to take the power amp output would do some serious damage to the inputs of pedals and pre-amps.

Edit: just realised that even this way would probably result in you clipping the pre-amp in the spider.
Last edited by Mad_BOB at Dec 14, 2008,
#5
I didn't even think about the fact that I was planning to take a 200w signal and feed it into all that other crap.

Really the idea was to:

a) make my setup include a subwoofer for no reason
b) get the nice reverb out of the Kasino and run it through my spider II

Do you guys know of any way that I could make the speaker signal into an acceptable signal to feed into my pedals and 2nd amp?
#7
Is it stereo amp?

I'm with jim, kinda seems wierd with the mismatched wattages.
------

Shwiggity.
#9
Quote by deftonesordie
Is it stereo amp?

I'm with jim, kinda seems wierd with the mismatched wattages.

It's a stereo amp, and I don't thiink it's tube. However, for a stereo amp, it is very good. Don't plug guitar into it; just use it as hi-fi if it works.
Then there's this band called Slice The Cake...

Bunch of faggots putting random riffs together and calling it "progressive" deathcore.
Stupid name.
Probably picked "for teh lulz"

Mod in UG's Official Gain Whores
#10
Go from guitar to to an A/B (Possibly A/B/Y) Box.

Pedals in line before the box, A/B them to either amp as a selector.
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I don't think a lot of black people play guitar anymore.

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they all kinda went extinct after hendrix really.


Needless to say, I lol'ed.

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Appart from being on UG or wanking, thats what i mostly do
#11
Quote by Shinozoku
It's a stereo amp, and I don't thiink it's tube. However, for a stereo amp, it is very good. Don't plug guitar into it; just use it as hi-fi if it works.


will it ever die? i hope not
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Nice vibe you just put out there. Its like daddy just hit mommy at the dinner table and we all still want to eat.
#12
1) No, it is not a stereo amp - it's a solid state mono. The set-up I envision would still be mono.

2) No, everything I own is (intentionally) a piece of ****.

3) I'm looking to do a multi-stage set-up, not a multi-amp set-up.

4) You guys are getting less and less helpful as this thread continues.
#13
An attenuator won't do you any good here. You could run this to the speaker of your spider but if you run it into the front of your amp, you will be forced to upgrade amps.
#14
Keep me posted on the subwoofer speaker at least...
Noob Grade Gear...
Ibanez GRX20 GFS Pups, Digitech RP3, Vox Satchurator, Behringer DD400 Delay, Danelectro Fish n Chips EQ, Behringer GMX110
Total lack of skills and not into broot4Lz anymore
#15
That box you're looking to make - it's a DI, not an attenuator. I really should've thought of that, as the DI i've got is perfectly comfortable sitting between an amp and a speaker, and then using the XLR output to feed a PA. It looks like it should work fine.
#16
First of all, I have to come out and ask: what the hell were you doing in your neighbor's trash?? That's kinda odd man XD

Anyways, it sounds like if you build the attenuator it should work (although I wouldn't really crank the OD this time) Keep us updated =]
Gear
Dean Dimebag Dixie Rebel Guitar
Ibanez RG 220 B Guitar
Laney HCM60 Amp
Scott Ian Black 8 Sig Pedal
Digitech RP80 Pedal
Behringer AC108 Vintager Amp
#17
Quote by Skadettle
1) No, it is not a stereo amp - it's a solid state mono. The set-up I envision would still be mono.



C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER
#18
Quote by ph34rth3r34p3r
First of all, I have to come out and ask: what the hell were you doing in your neighbor's trash?? That's kinda odd man XD


Whenever I see a commercial of someone throwing audio equipment out of a window or smashing it or whatever, a little part of me dies. I sort of see audio equipment like puppies. I rescue abandoned puppies...er, audio equipment.
#20
Put a mic in front of the first amp and have it run into the second amp's input.
#21
Step one: open up the circuit on the Kasino, rip out the reverb unit with its associated bits and doo-dads, place it in a project box with a 1/4"in and 1/4" out, plug your guitar into the reverb tank, and the reverb tank into the spider line II, realize just how much the notion of using a spider line II should anger you, trash the spider, buy a twin reverb, learn to play the blues, kill and skin Eric Clapton, dress up in an Eric Clapton skin suit, reform cream (who cares about whether the other members want to reunite, Clapton is the only one who matters) play some live shows, kill bono (Optional step, but highly recommended) have a child (but raise him/her in a one story house) teach the child to perform voodoo magik, have him/her raise jimi hendrix from the dead, tour as "Zombie Hendrix and Cream"
Step two: Profit!

That should work, pm me if you have trouble with anything there.
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#22
I've found that cheap, piece of **** equipment gets the crazy awesome sound if you know how to play guitar decently.
#23
Simply put, push 200 watts into the input of another amp and you'll blow the input transistors and/or diodes of the other amp.
Either a/b/y it, blow your stuff up, don't use it, or jump off a cliff. We're trying to help you and you're being ungrateful, so i'd suggest you take the last option.
#24
alright man, this "Kasino" amp, what is it originally intended for? Is it a keyboard amp? A guitar amp? A hi-fi amp? Organ amp? What?

Secondly, turning the gain up on your distortion pedal should have blown the speaker, unless the speaker was already in need of a reconing. Speakers that companies put in amps, generally, are made to take the amplifier's peak wattage and using a distortion pedal does not increase the wattage, but CAN increase volume, which in general doesn't blow a speaker in an amp. Same goes for playing with 10 on the high or lows on the amp, the speakers are made to take it.

My suggestion: pop in another speaker, see how much you like the amp, if you don't, it'll probably sell well on ebay. Don't try to work some crazy, convoluted setup involving attenuators and running a 200watt signal to another amp, just A/B/Y it if you like the sound of that and want to get your spider involved, like a dirty amp threesome.

Another option would be to install a pre-amp out on the amp and take the signal from the pre-amp before it gets amplified, and then you could send that through your pedals to the spider II. You could even yank the amp from the cabinet, build a makeshift cabinet just to protect it's bits and peices and that reverb you love so much and have a pre-amp that gives you the Kasino's sound and reverb that you could run into the Spider III.

Yet another option would be to just install a 1/4" jack where the speaker cables come out of the amp unit itself and use it as a head and run it to differant cabinets and speakers and such.

I mean, the sky's the limit, but running a 200watt signal through an attenuator to your pedals and spider II is just... well, rediculous.
Fact: Bears eat beats. Bears beats Battlestar Galactica.
#25
Quote by Thomme
alright man, this "Kasino" amp, what is it originally intended for? Is it a keyboard amp? A guitar amp? A hi-fi amp? Organ amp? What?


As far as I'm aware, it's a guitar amp. Though, when I was researching the amp when I first salvaged it, there were some sources suggesting that it was a combo PA. Given the effects that it has (Overdrive, Tremolo, Spring Reverb), I doubt that it's anything but a cheap ( cheap cheap cheap!) guitar amp.

Quote by Thomme
Yet another option would be to just install a 1/4" jack where the speaker cables come out of the amp unit itself and use it as a head and run it to differant cabinets and speakers and such.


Yeah, I found some schematics to build a line out (I posted the link higher up in the thread). It's actually pretty simple, apparently you just need some wires, a jack and two resistors. The difficult part will be figuring out which resistors...
#26
Quote by Skadettle
As far as I'm aware, it's a guitar amp. Though, when I was researching the amp when I first salvaged it, there were some sources suggesting that it was a combo PA. Given the effects that it has (Overdrive, Tremolo, Spring Reverb), I doubt that it's anything but a cheap ( cheap cheap cheap!) guitar amp.


Yeah, I found some schematics to build a line out (I posted the link higher up in the thread). It's actually pretty simple, apparently you just need some wires, a jack and two resistors. The difficult part will be figuring out which resistors...


if you do a "line out" after the power amp, you wouldn't be able to just use a couple of resistors to cut 200watts at 4-16 ohms out. You have to do it before the poweramp stage, then you get pretty much a powerless signal, like a pedal. Doing a speaker out, you would be able to use the amp as though it were a head unit.
Fact: Bears eat beats. Bears beats Battlestar Galactica.
#27
Quote by Thomme
if you do a "line out" after the power amp, you wouldn't be able to just use a couple of resistors to cut 200watts at 4-16 ohms out. You have to do it before the poweramp stage, then you get pretty much a powerless signal, like a pedal. Doing a speaker out, you would be able to use the amp as though it were a head unit.


http://www.diyguitarist.com/GuitarAmps/LineOutBox.htm

The schematic splits the signal coming from the amp between the speaker (giving the full 200 watts of power) and the line out (cutting the voltage for the line out immensely). It's essentially a stripped down DIY DI box.
#28
Could use a trim pot on the Spider part, set it to 3/8s, and remove the transformer from the equation. On 75W side: Split->Trim Pot->FX->Speaker. Just unwire the transformer. I think that should work.
#29
Quote by Skadettle
http://www.diyguitarist.com/GuitarAmps/LineOutBox.htm

The schematic splits the signal coming from the amp between the speaker (giving the full 200 watts of power) and the line out (cutting the voltage for the line out immensely). It's essentially a stripped down DIY DI box.

that seems all too simple for cutting 200w down to run to a mixer or PA or other device.... but, ok.
Fact: Bears eat beats. Bears beats Battlestar Galactica.
#30
Quote by Thomme
that seems all too simple for cutting 200w down to run to a mixer or PA or other device.... but, ok.


From what I've gathered, it's the basic schematic for a power attenuator (which is pretty much the opposite of an amplifier). According to various sources, the two resistor set up is the simplest, but also the crudest. Because of the resistors, you lose some strength in the current. There are alternate schematics that offer better quality through the attenuation, but their schematics are far less intuitive (in terms of what the resulting voltage will be) and definitely not a simple beginner's DIY project.

I wish I remembered more of my high school physics so I could explain it better...or at all, for that matter.
#31
Quote by Skadettle
From what I've gathered, it's the basic schematic for a power attenuator (which is pretty much the opposite of an amplifier). According to various sources, the two resistor set up is the simplest, but also the crudest. Because of the resistors, you lose some strength in the current. There are alternate schematics that offer better quality through the attenuation, but their schematics are far less intuitive (in terms of what the resulting voltage will be) and definitely not a simple beginner's DIY project.

I wish I remembered more of my high school physics so I could explain it better...or at all, for that matter.

Ok, it's not quite an attenuator, you still have to have it hooked up to speakers, or you will damage the amp itself. The resistors don't create enough resistance to make up for the lack of speakers, but, they allow a second signal to leave the chain without being over powered for other devices. So, it still has to be hooked up to speakers.
Fact: Bears eat beats. Bears beats Battlestar Galactica.
#32
Yeah, that's the one thing that the guy who did the schematic said: if it isn't hooked up to a speaker, the circuit would only be going to the line out and would overload everything. Anyway, I made the thing, and bolted it to the back of my Kasino, and the thing works beautifully. I'm still tinkering with the volume settings on both amps to find a good balance, but the quality is nice.
#33
Quote by Skadettle
Yeah, that's the one thing that the guy who did the schematic said: if it isn't hooked up to a speaker, the circuit would only be going to the line out and would overload everything. Anyway, I made the thing, and bolted it to the back of my Kasino, and the thing works beautifully. I'm still tinkering with the volume settings on both amps to find a good balance, but the quality is nice.

kudos, man, I'd love to hear some clips sometime.
Fact: Bears eat beats. Bears beats Battlestar Galactica.