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#1
How do musical prodigies influence you or have an effect on you guys, in terms of your self esteem/motivation/playing ability?

By musical prodigies I am talking about those very very rare kids (yes kids) who just seem to get it in all aspects of playing - technicality/composition/feel.

The rate and ability these prodigies have seem at a whole new level above anyone else (i.e. dimebag winning guitar competitions after playing only a month or two)

I was best friends with a piano prodigy growing up. He would win state competitions by practicing only an hour a day or so, and seemingly not caring about piano playing. He learned pieces by ear rather than sight reading. For example, if his teacher gave him a very difficult piano concerto, he would often get in trouble for not using the sheet music, he would just listen and know the exact notes to hit.
#4
Only being able to play be repeating makes him not that great a musician. What would he have done if he wanted to write his own music down? Or play learn a piece that he couldn't, for whatever reason, here how it went?

To answer your question, I'm in a music class with a girl who I would call a prodigy as she did grade 8 on violin before she was eleven. I occasionally feel jelous (its only natural, really), but I try and use it as motivation to get better at violin myself (I'm currently on grade 6).

Also, even if I can never play as technically hard pieces as some people I know, I try and motivate myself to practise so I can be the best musician I can possibly be.

And whenever I'm feeling really crap at music I just think about how many of my friends are not as good as me which, though being quite egocentric, often makes me realise how thankful I should be for the musical ability I do have.

Edit:^
#5
Quote by 12345abcd3

And whenever I'm feeling really crap at music I just think about how many of my friends are not as good as me which, though being quite egocentric, often makes me realise how thankful I should be for the musical ability I do have.



I always do that, it gives me the movation to keep going. Also, when I feel that I am not a good guitarist, I call a friend that has played guitar the same amount of time as me and tell him to play something. After he plays a G chord 5 times, I play a Harmonic Minor solo. After that he feels bad and I feel good
#6
my whole life as far back as i can remember i've been exposed to music/ professional musicians it was no suprise to my parents or anyone else that i exploded artistically wt no formal trainning. i just comes. and when it does i have to play right there and then.
real musicians are not made and manufactured, their born and raised to be that way, i dont know any other way of life. its kinda sad.

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#7
Quote by psychosylocibin
How do musical prodigies influence you or have an effect on you guys, in terms of your self esteem/motivation/playing ability?



I play because it's fun for me. Someone else having more or less talent than me doesn't take away from my enjoyment, so it doesn't really matter to me.

If someone makes good music, it generally inspires me more than anything. Good for them for having the talent..... good for me, I get to enjoy listening to it.

Quote by E/G#

real musicians are not made and manufactured, their born and raised to be that way, i dont know any other way of life. its kinda sad.

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Well, there are many factors in becoming a "real" musician. Some have the fortune of being exposed to it at a young age, some don't. Someone that isn't "born and raised" with music may discover their passion and talent for it later in life. By the same token I've known some people that are of musical families and started very young, yet they are not passionate about it, and show very little talent. I think its best not to take yourself so seriously that you think you know what a "real musician" is, as you will likely be proven wrong.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Dec 16, 2008,
#8
Musical prodigies is soooooooooo vague. Since art is in the end opinion.

I only believe in people who came first with something, innovaters.

It's just like intelligence, which is also very vague.

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#9
Quote by xxdarrenxx
Musical prodigies is soooooooooo vague. Since art is in the end opinion.

I only believe in people who came first with something, innovaters.

It's just like intelligence, which is also very vague.



Except in a classical music framework most prodigies are innovators. The thing with prodigies who are also instrumentalist, especially akin to genres that aren't orchestral tend to be limited by the instrument they play; especially on guitar.

Would anyone here consider Yngwie a prodigy? I don't. But I suppose there are some who do. He tried to extend his compositional abilities to the orchestra but that turned out to be a bloody joke. Anyway, prodigies, doesn't matter how fast you can play the piano or guitar at age 5. People don't stay age 5. After you hit adulthood what matters is your compositional ability and knack for innovation. My point, a person might be born a child prodigy, but that doesn't mean they'll die a prodigy, or a great musician for that matter.
#10
Quote by 12345abcd3
Only being able to play be repeating makes him not that great a musician. What would he have done if he wanted to write his own music down? Or play learn a piece that he couldn't, for whatever reason, here how it went?

To answer your question, I'm in a music class with a girl who I would call a prodigy as she did grade 8 on violin before she was eleven. I occasionally feel jelous (its only natural, really), but I try and use it as motivation to get better at violin myself (I'm currently on grade 6).
Also, even if I can never play as technically hard pieces as some people I know, I try and motivate myself to practise so I can be the best musician I can possibly be.

And whenever I'm feeling really crap at music I just think about how many of my friends are not as good as me which, though being quite egocentric, often makes me realise how thankful I should be for the musical ability I do have.

Edit:^

everyones always talking about grades.....do you mean thats what you would learn in that grade?
it confuses me, does a "grade 6" piece mean something they would teach you in 6th grade???
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#11
Well, I don't really care to be honest. The only person I want to be better than is myself! I want to improve MY technique. I know that I don't have any talent (I'm 13), I just practice my ass off, imo it's a more rewarding experience.
#12
Quote by musicTHEORYnerd
everyones always talking about grades.....do you mean thats what you would learn in that grade?
it confuses me, does a "grade 6" piece mean something they would teach you in 6th grade???


Nah, it's a system where you learn pieces that are graded for different skill levels, with grade 1 being easiest and grade 8 being most difficult before diplomas and stuff. Grade 8 is an incredibly high standard for an eleven year old.
#14
Quote by Myung-trucci
Nah, it's a system where you learn pieces that are graded for different skill levels, with grade 1 being easiest and grade 8 being most difficult before diplomas and stuff. Grade 8 is an incredibly high standard for an eleven year old.

thanks =]

makes me curious....i wonder what "grade" i would be at
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#15
meh, grades are not that important really. The only decent 'rock' exam board I know of is Rockschool and they are based in the UK. Grades for theory are worth doing though.
#16
Truthfully, there are VERY few musical prodigies. A musical prodigy, by definition, is somebody who has mastered an instrument by the age of 9 (I believe).

There are, however, many people who progress much faster than the norm. These people, depending on their attitude, are my inspiration. They give me the feeling that I need to improve, and this has helped me WAY more than anything else I can think of. I don't typically get jealous of these people because of their ability, but their exposure. Example one: Mattrach from youtube.
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#17
Quote by musicTHEORYnerd
everyones always talking about grades.....do you mean thats what you would learn in that grade?
it confuses me, does a "grade 6" piece mean something they would teach you in 6th grade???



There are different examination boards for different instruments that are mostly classical music and jazz based that ask for recitals of pre defined pieces of music at different levels that are known as grades. They go from the initials, grade 1, 2.....until 8 after which there are certain performance certificates up to a diploma. Two common examination boards, in England atleast, are ABRSM and trinity.

[EDIT]

I hate the people who manages to explain this before me. I hope they die. Yes, I'm a sour loser.
Last edited by MisquotedTeabag at Dec 16, 2008,
#18
On grades, its important to note that U.S. and U.K. have slightly different standard. And grade test can be taken at any time in your life, and 1 is the easiest (usually a simple song, a couple scales, a couple easy chords for piano) and 8 being the hardest (several very very very challenging concertos written by the piano gods)
#19
Quote by MisquotedTeabag
Except in a classical music framework most prodigies are innovators. The thing with prodigies who are also instrumentalist, especially akin to genres that aren't orchestral tend to be limited by the instrument they play; especially on guitar.

Would anyone here consider Yngwie a prodigy? I don't. But I suppose there are some who do. He tried to extend his compositional abilities to the orchestra but that turned out to be a bloody joke. Anyway, prodigies, doesn't matter how fast you can play the piano or guitar at age 5. People don't stay age 5. After you hit adulthood what matters is your compositional ability and knack for innovation. My point, a person might be born a child prodigy, but that doesn't mean they'll die a prodigy, or a great musician for that matter.


Do you understand why I said I find the term way to vague.

In ur post you used the word prodigy both as an opinion(yngwie) as well as a fact(prodiges/age), I think that's called an ?oxymoron?. The term is vague, and only innovators is a true logical term.

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#21
Quote by one vision
Yngwie is a pioneer not a prodigy.



I never said he was. I said some do. Quite honestly I used Yngwie to illustrate a completely different point that you both seemed to have missed, I'm afraid. Maybe, I'm just being vague. To reiterate my point in simpler terms, what I meant was that a prodigy is defined by an instrument. Mozart to piano and violin, Lizst to keyboard, Bach to keyboard and so on and so forth but they all managed to transcend the limitations of their instrument by extending their 'compositional abilities', something I'm afraid most modern day 'prodigies' lack. I mean, most young instrumentalist can't compose, nor do they have any originality. Again, the term 'originality' is subject to one's own opinion however my point is valid. -shrug- To be honest though, I have more respect for Yngwie Malmsteen than a 9 year old who can play Blitzkrieg.
#22
Yeah, foreal.

Although I don't like Mozart's music THAT much, I think he is a good example of a prodigy. He composed at an extremely early age, etc. Another example would be Paganini. Who composed later in his teen years, but had been doing technique stuff at a young age also.
#23
Quote by one vision
Yeah, foreal.

Although I don't like Mozart's music THAT much, I think he is a good example of a prodigy. He composed at an extremely early age, etc. Another example would be Paganini. Who composed later in his teen years, but had been doing technique stuff at a young age also.



He is THE example of a prodigy. Tell me though, is it Mozart you dislike or any music from the Classical period? And beethoven does not count. He was simply an idiosyncratic link between classicism and Romanticism, his music stands alone without any label or categorization; indeed his later works certainly do. When it comes to Mozart, he was unfortunate, not to have lived longer or at least in a different period of time. The man was a master at what he did. He along side Haydn and Gluck represented the whole of the classical period and MOzart managed to over shadow them both. It's a shame he didn't live in a day and age where the public didn't demand so many strict doctrine of classicism Mozart had to adhere to. When his day and age was at that fulcrum of change he perished. Listen to Mozart's 40th; the last movement; that was a mere hair width away from seeping out into Romantic harmony and indeed expression. Was he a prodigy at the piano though? Meh, again within the Classical frame work the man made that Fortepiano and indeed the harpsichord live breach and make love to the orchestra. Besides his ability to improvise was phenomenal. If proof be needed please listen to his D minor fantasia.


[EDIT] Why the heck did I just write a bloody one paragraph essay on classical music. I need to join another forum. -_-
Last edited by MisquotedTeabag at Dec 16, 2008,
#24
And beethoven does not count. He was simply an idiosyncratic link between classicism and Romanticism


No. Just...no. Beethoven's earlier works were very much in the style of the classical period.
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#25
Quote by Archeo Avis
No. Just...no. Beethoven's earlier works were very much in the style of the classical period.



Please read my entire post before commenting. I made amendments to my sentence afterwards by stating that his 'early works certainly do'. Please don't resort to semantics but I thought that was sufficient to imply that his early works were indeed adherent to the Viennese classical style. Besides, that was hardly my point.
#26
Why should I care how good anybody else is? I like playing guitar.
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Last edited by ramm_ty at Dec 16, 2008,
#27
Quote by ramm_ty
Why should I care how good anybody else? I like playing guitar.

EXACTLY!!
in my opinion, music is all about making myself feel better.

if i write a song that sounds like crap to everyone, but i love it, i play it.
people should stop worrying about comparing themselves to other people with music.

idk, im obsessed with music, and i take music very seriously, so it might jsut be me lol.

GO MUSIC!!!!
lol
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#28
I have great respect for Mozart as a musician, he was a genius, and I do like a small amount of his music. That's just personal taste though. I was just kidding around with the Beethoven > Mozart thing. My avatar is Beethoven. Hah. Hah.

Beethoven is often not recognized as a prodigy because he wasn't dragged from court to court showing off like Mozart and Paganini were. But he had undoubtable talents from a young age. However, he was only given a "break" at the age of 19 when he went to study with Haydn. I hope I have those facts right. I'm tired.

I love the Classical period, but I love the Romantic period so much more.
#29
Quote by musicTHEORYnerd
EXACTLY!!
in my opinion, music is all about making myself feel better.

if i write a song that sounds like crap to everyone, but i love it, i play it.
people should stop worrying about comparing themselves to other people with music.

idk, im obsessed with music, and i take music very seriously, so it might jsut be me lol.

GO MUSIC!!!!
lol



It's not about a comparison. No musician is comparable to another, but there music is and from those comparisons, contrasts and indeed similarities we draw our influences. Knowing whether Mozart of Bach was a prodigy or not might seem irrelevant but music is a form of expression; a form of universal and at the same time personal expression. Which is why it helps to learn more about your guitar heroes. If you really want to understand a piece of music you have to understand the culture, environment and especially the personality of the composer or musician who produced it. If Satriani or Gilbert or Mozart or Verdi did something good, that you like, it is a huge advantage, in the sense you can draw from their music, technique and life stories. Which is why I care about the people who make the music I like. Whether I care what other people think of my music is an entirely different matter. They are entitled to an opinion just as I am about anyone else's music. -shrugeth- Take what you want from all your heroes and leave the rest to history.
#30
Quote by one vision
I have great respect for Mozart as a musician, he was a genius, and I do like a small amount of his music. That's just personal taste though. I was just kidding around with the Beethoven > Mozart thing. My avatar is Beethoven. Hah. Hah.

Beethoven is often not recognized as a prodigy because he wasn't dragged from court to court showing off like Mozart and Paganini were. But he had undoubtable talents from a young age. However, he was only given a "break" at the age of 19 when he went to study with Haydn. I hope I have those facts right. I'm tired.

I love the Classical period, but I love the Romantic period so much more.


Agreed, however some did consider Beethoven a prodigy, but everyone in Vienna was over shadowed by the genius of Mozart and the professionalism of Haydn. Beethoven blossomed as he matures, towards the latter parts of his life. Paganini of course, pfft, certainly a prodigy by any definition of the word.
#32
define a "real" musician for me please?
is it an obscure artist that didnt "sell-out"?
or a standard the the industry has discoverd through trail and error?
my definition is-one who pushes the boundaries in their genre. with only so many notes,chords,scales,modes,arppe,taps,pulls,strumming patterns, innovations in tech, etc...
time always "weeds out garbage musicians."
stick to it as a hobby GUITARMUNKY_, it might just be theraputic for you.
some people are raised to play sports-ex. football, but you cant throw a ball @65yrs old
but you can pick up a guitar or paint brush if your lucky!
#33
Quote by E/G#
define a "real" musician for me please?



a person who plays or writes music


Quote by E/G#

my definition is-one who pushes the boundaries in their genre.


Well, that is not the correct definition of what a musician is.

If you want to say that that's your opinion of what a good musician is..... then your entitled to it. But it is what it is..... your opinion

Quote by E/G#

with only so many notes,chords,scales,modes,arppe,taps,pulls,strumming patterns, innovations in tech, etc...
time always "weeds out garbage musicians."


Why do you see things in such negative terms? In my experience people that are always putting down others are doing so to cover up there own insecurities. Maybe you should focus less on how bad others are and more on making music.


Quote by E/G#

stick to it as a hobby GUITARMUNKY_, it might just be theraputic for you.



Ironically I happen to make a living as a musician.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Dec 16, 2008,
#35
Quote by E/G#
stick to it as a hobby GUITARMUNKY
One does not typically make a hobby out of the subject in which one has earned a college degree.

"Yeah, so I'm Sue; I'm an electrician, but I solve differential geometry in my spare time," just doesn't work.
#36
Quote by bangoodcharlote
One does not typically make a hobby out of the subject in which one has earned a college degree.

"Yeah, so I'm Sue; I'm an electrician, but I solve differential geometry in my spare time," just doesn't work.
I know! Since when did they start teaching maths to women?!?!?


I like to look at prodigies and see what they can do but it's no different than seeing what other people can do. At heart, I'm jealous, but it also makes me inspired.
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#37
Quote by metal4all
I know! Since when did they start teaching maths to women?!?!?
Since before 1748 when Maria Gaetana Agnesi published a mathematics book summarizing the work of Euler.

Oh, Euler kicks Newton's ass and Einstein's as well. He influenced every branch of math or physics that currently exists.

By the way, you're American. We call it "math," damn it!

Child prodigies kind of annoy me. They have some kind of ability and don't have to work as hard as I did. I do wish I had that kind of ability, though. In math, however, as I plan on my career revolving around some kind of bioengineering or biophysics, though if offered, I'd take music.
#38
^
It really doesn't bother me if someone else gets music a little bit more easily than I do. I can't grasp sheet music for the life of me (specifically rhythms), but knowing which notes to play where is easy. You know how you just reach a point where you can develop melodies/solos in your head, without having an instrument within a mile of you? That's just a gift, even if it isn't a rare one.

Back to the point, everyone will progress at a different rate, and this is especially true when you narrow it down to different areas. One person may grasp division very easily at a young age but then struggle later in life with algebra, and the opposite may be true of someone else
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#39
Quote by Page&HammettFan
One person may grasp division very easily at a young age but then struggle later in life with algebra, and the opposite may be true of someone else
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#40
This thread is absolutely pointless. Any thread of this nature is, actually; it always bogs down to mere semantics.

Euler does not kick anyone's ass. By your definition of 'kicking ass', relating it to influence I suppose the Pythagorean school "kicks everyone's ass". They've influenced and indeed in the case of music instigated every branch of theory possible. We should all consider pythagoras to be the greatest music of all; after all he did come up with the harmonic series; the basis for all music, I suppose. As far as innovation goes, in my eyes, Pythagoras kicks Mozart's ass.

And please, don't forget Hypatia of Alexandria; don't ever forget the Greeks.

As far as I'm concerned the only thing that used to make me jealous in prodigies is the uncanny knack they had for listening to music vertically. Again this isn't exclusively a prodigy thing, but more of a, perfect pitch thing but boy was I jealous. I had a friend who could listen to a Schoenberg string sextet and managed to pick out and sing the viola part only. I was impressed.
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