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#1
So I realize this maybe a topic that will be purely opinion in most circumstances but it's one that I need some big help with.

I am in a fairly new band called On Burning Shores. I have been playing guitar for many years but have just recently began taking it very seriously and moving it to the next level.

I am currently playing an ESP eclipse-II through a Traynor YCS100h Custom Special 100w head into a 4x12 Mesa Boogie cab. I also use a Boss DD7 delay pedal.

My other guitarist is playing a Jackson Randy Rhoads through a Line 6 spider III Combo amp into a Behringer 4x12 cab

Basically, we're looking to really tighen up our live sound and we're looking for any possible suggestions on how to really get a tighter sound during our breakdowns and how to really clear up some of our chorus/chord parts and get a really professional feel to our music.

Take a listen to our live songs at www.myspace.com/onburningshores and see if you can come up with any tips on how to really help us achieve a more professional tone.
#2
Your other guitarist's choice of amp isn't the best, and sounds pretty bad and inconsistant compared to your Traynor, so it would be worth it for him to upgrade.
As for tightness, both of you should throw in an ISP decimator or similar, since we got ours our sound has tightened up immeasurably, they really help give more punch. Turn up your mids a bit more too.
ohai little sig.
Last edited by Demonikk at Dec 18, 2008,
#3
Thats a pretty mean band ya got there! Maybe have more bass guitar coming through? Sounds alot heavier in break downs that way... Also make sure it's the bass making hte bass and not ur guitars! Try possibly turning the bass down 2-3 clicks on your amp and turn up the bass player and see how much diff. it makes when you guys all play together.... Also make sure the bass drums are miked nicely, makes a huge difference. I have the same guitar as you so maybe do the 18v mod? Threes a thread on it in the Customizing gallery.
ESP Eclipse-II VTB (With 18v Mod)
Randall RG75
Tapco Mix60
New Zealand
#4
as weird as it may seem....

lower the gain. You will find you will get much better clarity that way.
My Gear
Guitars:
-Gibson Les Paul Studio
-Ibanez "lawsuit" Les Paul
-Ibanez S470
-PRS SE Custom

Amp:
Marshall TSL100
Marshall 1960a cab

Effects:
Dunlop 535q wah
Visual Sound Liquid Chorus

Pickups:
Guitarforce
MHD
#5
This is a process that sometimes takes year to understand man. I've been playing 11 years and now I sound as tight as it gets live in my opinion. But when I was younger it was sloppy as hell. It took me a while to figure out how to EQ my amp properly and to get an all tube amp. I play a 120 watt all tube amp (peavey 6505) through a full stack... two 4x12 cabs. I use a noise gate and OD pedal in front of it and keep it clear. My tone really is amazing if you heard it live. Every band ive ever played with compliments it.

now let's get to this subject... When I first got in one local band I was using a peavey 5150 and the other guy was using a line 6 spider 150 watt head. It ruined the tone all together. Although I had a 5150 it didn't matter much because that line 6 going through I mean... it totally made the sound sloppy as hell at practice volumes. You need to talk your friend into a better amp. And maybe your traynor isnt doing what you need it to do either.
#6
Quote by JLT73
as weird as it may seem....

lower the gain. You will find you will get much better clarity that way.


This is true sometimes but with the proper setup and noise gate you can have a saturated gain tone and still be tight and clear. I personally like my gain saturated. I don't the most gain in the world but enough to where it sounds wet.
#7
Quote by hcsn2008
This is a process that sometimes takes year to understand man. I've been playing 11 years and now I sound as tight as it gets live in my opinion. But when I was younger it was sloppy as hell. It took me a while to figure out how to EQ my amp properly and to get an all tube amp. I play a 120 watt all tube amp (peavey 6505) through a full stack... two 4x12 cabs. I use a noise gate and OD pedal in front of it and keep it clear. My tone really is amazing if you heard it live. Every band ive ever played with compliments it.

now let's get to this subject... When I first got in one local band I was using a peavey 5150 and the other guy was using a line 6 spider 150 watt head. It ruined the tone all together. Although I had a 5150 it didn't matter much because that line 6 going through I mean... it totally made the sound sloppy as hell at practice volumes. You need to talk your friend into a better amp. And maybe your traynor isnt doing what you need it to do either.


the other guitarist in my band has a cruddy crate halfstack. It sounds like vomit. My tone is real good, but gets a little ruined by his tone. Thank god he is getting a new amp this month.
My Gear
Guitars:
-Gibson Les Paul Studio
-Ibanez "lawsuit" Les Paul
-Ibanez S470
-PRS SE Custom

Amp:
Marshall TSL100
Marshall 1960a cab

Effects:
Dunlop 535q wah
Visual Sound Liquid Chorus

Pickups:
Guitarforce
MHD
#8
I am currently playing an ESP eclipse-II through a Traynor YCS100h Custom Special 100w head into a 4x12 Mesa Boogie cab. I also use a Boss DD7 delay pedal.

My other guitarist is playing a Jackson Randy Rhoads through a Line 6 spider III Combo amp into a Behringer 4x12 cab


Haha wow, your other guitarist needs to post here so GG&A can straighten him out :\
Quote by H4T3BR33D3R
Way to show everybody up jackass.

Guitar: _______________ Amp:
_ Ibanez SZ320 _________Fender Hot Rod Deluxe

V-Picks!
#9
Quote by JLT73
the other guitarist in my band has a cruddy crate halfstack. It sounds like vomit. My tone is real good, but gets a little ruined by his tone. Thank god he is getting a new amp this month.


Yeah, I'm the only guitar player in my band now. When you have two guitar players not only do you have to teach them all the riffs which makes it take waaaay more time to write songs you have to get them to sound tight. A lot of times if they do have a good amp you have to get them to practice enough to play tight and exactly on time with you.

Even though with two guitarist you can do harmonies and solos over guitar.. right now i just do solos over bass and say if my band ever gets bigger we'll have our pick of guitar players and I'll get one that fits. I spent like 12 hours a day for a week teaching a new guitar player our songs and he ended up quitting. Man that made me so mad I spent so much time with that mother ****er. And he wasn't interested in buying a better amp either. He had a crappy solid state amp but would argue that his tone is fine.
#10
Had the same problem in my old band...our other guitarist had a ****ty crate amp. Only thing I recommend...when you record, offer to let him use your rig!! Thats what we did Or, like mentioned earlier, try to get him to buy a new rig, use a noise gate, buy a nice EQ, etc. Good luck!
#11
I guess this is more for your other guitarist...
get a used 5150, retube it, then buy an avatar cab with whatever speakers you prefer.

you should probaby move to a recto or something
My band.
www.myspace.com/bransonny

My gear.
Marshall: JCM800 2205, 6100, 1960AV
H&K: Triamp MKII, Duotone
Mesa: Recto recording pre, 212
2 Avatar 412 (v30's)
Gibson: LP std, SG std, SG goth, SG spec
G&L ASAT classic
Martin DC-16GTE
#12
Quote by JLT73
as weird as it may seem....

lower the gain. You will find you will get much better clarity that way.
+ 1. This is key when playing high gain metal live in a band. Increase your pick attack too.
MARSHALL JVM 210H
PEAVEY JSX
KRANK 412
MESA 412
FENDER STRATS
DIMARZIO
CELESTION
#13
Add an OD pedal in front of the amp, will boost your amp making it tighter and give it more clarity.
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I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
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maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





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#14
Quote by MatrixClaw
Add an OD pedal in front of the amp, will boost your amp making it tighter and give it more clarity.

^ this

it wont work for his spider, but itll make your amp much tighter. tell him to save up for a nice head
periphery/bulb!

gear:
Ibanez RG7321 w/ D-sonic in bridge

Peavey 5150 mk ii & b52 4x12 cab

line 6 podxt for recording

Quote by AsOneIStand
Head and Cab for $130? You don't need a head and cabinet, you need a psychological examination.
#15
Od pedal, Better cab for the Spider guy and everything else mentioned here...

Also yall can always change things up a bit. Spider guy slow deep chords and you play the tight stuff on top. Its a cheap fix for the time being.
#16
Well, I use an OD pedal in front of my peavey 6505. . Yes it makes it more tighter and sound better but I mean... It's not like it makes a difference that will solve this problem if he's noticing it this much. The od pedal makes the amp sound like it has a tighter tone but as far as your tone sounding tigther with the other guitar player and the whole band it won't make any difference.

The spider guy doesn't need a new cab he just needs a new amp and then a cab. You need to get him a used 5150 or something. Or hell a bugera atleast. You can get a bugera new for 500 bucks. It'll slay that spider.
#17
Quote by hcsn2008
Well, I use an OD pedal in front of my peavey 6505. . Yes it makes it more tighter and sound better but I mean... It's not like it makes a difference that will solve this problem if he's noticing it this much. The od pedal makes the amp sound like it has a tighter tone but as far as your tone sounding tigther with the other guitar player and the whole band it won't make any difference.

The spider guy doesn't need a new cab he just needs a new amp and then a cab. You need to get him a used 5150 or something. Or hell a bugera atleast. You can get a bugera new for 500 bucks. It'll slay that spider.


I disaggree.

An od can make a Valveking into a whole different beast and tightness goes up ten fold. It can make a huge difference in amps. Now that said some amps it will be hardly noticable queue in certain Mesa models. But its a cheap solution that might make the world of differnece.

Also no matter what amp you throw on top of a muddy cab your tone will be muddy regardless. The line 6 is a SS amp if it cant do tight metal then nothing will. Sure its not going to sound the best tone wise but SS amps by default are as tight as you can get.
#18
Try less gain and more mids. That may help clarify the sound a little bit. Also a compression pedal like a MXR Dyna Comp will tighten both of you a load. They're only like 70 bucks.

But the best fix mentioned is a new amp for guitarist #2.
Sig What?
#19
Quote by IbanezPsycho
I disaggree.

An od can make a Valveking into a whole different beast and tightness goes up ten fold. It can make a huge difference in amps. Now that said some amps it will be hardly noticable queue in certain Mesa models. But its a cheap solution that might make the world of differnece.

Also no matter what amp you throw on top of a muddy cab your tone will be muddy regardless. The line 6 is a SS amp if it cant do tight metal then nothing will. Sure its not going to sound the best tone wise but SS amps by default are as tight as you can get.


Well yes it can make it into a whole nother amp... and it makes the tone tighter but I'm really not thinking that's exactly what he means here. He's asking how he can make his guitar tone sound professional and tight. An OD pedal tightens up tone to a degree and changes the tone... sometimes a lot. But it's really not going to make someone who doesn't sound tight at all magically sound tight.
#20
Quote by darth awsome
Try less gain and more mids. That may help clarify the sound a little bit. Also a compression pedal like a MXR Dyna Comp will tighten both of you a load. They're only like 70 bucks.

But the best fix mentioned is a new amp for guitarist #2.


eh i hate compression pedals. But using more mids will help you cut through the mix better. But I still think this has a lot to do with the other guy using a line 6 and maybe technique. They might not be playing that tight.
#21
Quote by hcsn2008
Well yes it can make it into a whole nother amp... and it makes the tone tighter but I'm really not thinking that's exactly what he means here. He's asking how he can make his guitar tone sound professional and tight. An OD pedal tightens up tone to a degree and changes the tone... sometimes a lot. But it's really not going to make someone who doesn't sound tight at all magically sound tight.


Using an OD as a clean boost shouldnt have to much if any effect/coloration of your tone. And depending on the OD you get they can be extremely transparent. I think your confused and think were telling him to turn up the gain knob on the OD up. We are talking about Level 10 Gain 0 as far as settings go. And using these settings have always made my tone sound ten fold better and tighter. Some pedals are tighter then others sure but even my cheapest OD can make a pretty substantial effect on the tightness of my tone. And all I play is generally tight metal.

Also TS, whats your volume set at? You might be getting into saturation point of your power tubes and that is effecting your tone.
#22
Quote by JLT73
as weird as it may seem....

lower the gain. You will find you will get much better clarity that way.

i was going to say the same thing.
lowering the distortion helps alot.
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#23
Pump the mids

/thread
Pain is an illusion.
Schecter Hellraiser C-1 w/ Seymour Duncan JB/Jazz Combo
Pitchblack | Bad Horsie 2 | DS-1 | BF-2 | ISP Decimator | DD6
YouTube Channel
#24
hey guys, this is the second guitarist in the band (the spider guy).
First of all i want to say thanks to everyone whose been posting, it really does help.

Now before you all get on my back for my ****ty rig let me just say this, I KNOW HOW **** IT IS! which is exactly why i am posting now, to get all of your suggestions on what kind of amp and cab i should be getting. I am completely lost in this department and would like your advice.

Check out our songs at www.myspace.com/onburningshores before you post so you know what kind of sound we are going for.
#25
Do you have a budget?
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#28
Quote by OnBurningShores
my budget is about 3 grand on the amp and cab.


lolwut


In all seriousness though, look at a mesa triple recto and if you can go used maybe a bogner uberschall
My gear:
PRS SE custom
~!~--Peavey XXX super 40 EFX --~!~
Peavey VK 112

===WGS Vet30
===JJ power tubes

---Pedals:
-ISP Decimator
-Digitech Bad Monkey
-Crybaby wah
-Korg Pitchblack
-Danelectro FnC EQ
#29
back off the gain and bass a bit, and get him to ditch the Spider III and Behringer setup: a 5150/6505 combo would suit him well. I saw a band who's guitarist was using one of those 75 or 125 watt Spider III 2x12 combos and damn: A) sound was waaaay to saturated and was quite digital sounding at volumes loud enough to compete with a JCM 800 head (the other guy was the JCM using through a Marshall 4x12), and B) Non stop feedback. They had a few stop starts and breakdowns, and any time they'd try to cut their sound prior to each breakdown, all you'd hear was feedback from his side of the stage. A 5150 combo and a Boss NS-2 (or ISP Decimator, but the NS-2 is cheaper and a ton of 5150 users swear by it, even pros) will definitely improve your live sound ten fold. As for your own rig, i'm not knowledgable on traynor amps, but as i said, turn down the gain a notch or two, and back the bass off like 2 notches. Oddly, heavy guitar sounds in a band/song can sound pretty thin when it's just the guitar, so it's okay if your sound is a bit thin and non brutal by yourself, when in the mix it'll come alive and have WAAY more impact.
#30
Quote by RG_FANMAN
back off the gain and bass a bit, and get him to ditch the Spider III and Behringer setup: a 5150/6505 combo would suit him well. I saw a band who's guitarist was using one of those 75 or 125 watt Spider III 2x12 combos and damn: A) sound was waaaay to saturated and was quite digital sounding at volumes loud enough to compete with a JCM 800 head (the other guy was the JCM using through a Marshall 4x12), and B) Non stop feedback. They had a few stop starts and breakdowns, and any time they'd try to cut their sound prior to each breakdown, all you'd hear was feedback from his side of the stage. A 5150 combo and a Boss NS-2 (or ISP Decimator, but the NS-2 is cheaper and a ton of 5150 users swear by it, even pros) will definitely improve your live sound ten fold. As for your own rig, i'm not knowledgable on traynor amps, but as i said, turn down the gain a notch or two, and back the bass off like 2 notches. Oddly, heavy guitar sounds in a band/song can sound pretty thin when it's just the guitar, so it's okay if your sound is a bit thin and non brutal by yourself, when in the mix it'll come alive and have WAAY more impact.


Did you even read the most recent post? The second guitarist with the spider is asking for advice on a new amp to buy with a budget of $3000.
#31
no, I didn't read that his budget was $3,000. I read the first page worth of stuff and posted from there. With 3 grand, I'd say look at a Peavey 5150/6505 head and a Mesa Rectifier 4x12 cab. He may also want something like an Ibanez TS-9 or a Maxon OD-808 to boost it, and a Boss NS-2 to kill the noise. Other options would be a Mesa Dual Rectifier with the OD and Noise Supressor or ENGL Powerball. Cab I still say should be a 4x12 Recto cab.
#33
what cables are you using? i noticed a pretty big improvement in clarity when i upgraded from planet waves to cleartones/van dammes. any high quality, low capacitance cable should do the trick, though, assuming you aren't already using quality cables. EDIT: if you're talking about recording, though, i don't have much of a clue about that.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
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#34
Quote by OnBurningShores
my budget is about 3 grand on the amp and cab.

woah with that money, **** rectos. Get a VHT deliverance and the matching 412 cab. you will **** your pants from how heavy that amp sounds. My friend recently switched from H&K Triamp mkII rigs to a vht deliverance rig solely after mixing a norma jean song with it in it.
My band.
www.myspace.com/bransonny

My gear.
Marshall: JCM800 2205, 6100, 1960AV
H&K: Triamp MKII, Duotone
Mesa: Recto recording pre, 212
2 Avatar 412 (v30's)
Gibson: LP std, SG std, SG goth, SG spec
G&L ASAT classic
Martin DC-16GTE
#35
oh yea, how could I forget VHTs? Deliverances are REALLY amazing amps, cabs too. I'd go with one of those or a 5150 and Recto cab depending on what deals you can find, although the VHT would probably be the better bet.
#36
what you position on peavey 6505 versus 6505+ ?

also i read that the guys in unearth use peavey 6505's but the VHT site said they use the deliverance. Anyone know?
#38
Quote by OnBurningShores
what you position on peavey 6505 versus 6505+ ?

also i read that the guys in unearth use peavey 6505's but the VHT site said they use the deliverance. Anyone know?


Are you willing to sacrifice a bit of gain (the 6505 has a ton to begin with) for some tolerable cleans?
Also, the gain it structured a bit different, but it's still similar, if I'm not mistaken..
#39
Quote by OnBurningShores
what you position on peavey 6505 versus 6505+ ?

also i read that the guys in unearth use peavey 6505's but the VHT site said they use the deliverance. Anyone know?

they probably used both in the studio. If they used a 6505, 10 to 1 says it was modded. Stock 6505s may sound pretty decent, but not good enough to hang with a vht, engl, or bogner.
My band.
www.myspace.com/bransonny

My gear.
Marshall: JCM800 2205, 6100, 1960AV
H&K: Triamp MKII, Duotone
Mesa: Recto recording pre, 212
2 Avatar 412 (v30's)
Gibson: LP std, SG std, SG goth, SG spec
G&L ASAT classic
Martin DC-16GTE
#40
Cowbell. It needs more cowbell.

Seriously, though, with a $3K budget, you should be able to go into your FLMS and ask someone to start kissing ass until you find EXACTLY what you're looking for.

I've never had that kind of budget at any one time and my FLMS has treated me right since 1982. If you're as well established as you seem to be, you should have a personal relationship with somebody you can trust to help guide your purchases. If you don't, you may be shopping in the wrong stores.
Last edited by dannyalcatraz at Dec 29, 2008,
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