#1
I know my modes and can use theory to build chords and such. But where should i start? ultimately i want to become competent in jazz soloing so that i can mix that in with my blues/rock playing, and because i enjoy it, and i also want to be able to comp pretty well. Where to start?
#2
Start by buying a Real Book. Learn how to read music, this is extremely essential to being able to be a competent jazz player. After you learn the melody, learn the harmony and learn about different substitutions you can use. Analyze simpler songs and figure out why certain chords go where.


If you can, get a guitar teacher to help you with this. It's a very broad subject to try to grasp all at once.
Good luck!
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#3
If you really want to get serious then find a teacher who actually gigs as a jazz player and not a rocker who says they can teach you jazz. Start by playing a tune like "So What" by Miles Davis (remember always listen to as much jazz you can and in this case get a recording of Kind of Blue and spin it til you know every note). So What is good because it's a modal tune so you don't have to worry about following chords and you can use modes exclusively. By doing this you can build your phrasing skills and work on getting a real jazz like inflection in your playing. From there you will have to really listen as much as you can and continue learning theory. For example being able to know what notes are in what chords, that is very important.
12 fret fury
#4
Quote by 6DgOfInTb
Start by buying a Real Book.
Alternatively, you could download one. Saves you 40 bucks, and it's not like the musicians are getting any of it anyway.

I'm working on my reading too, using jazz lead sheets as practice. I started with anything in C, as it was easiest for me to read...it was pretty slow going at the beginning, but you might find you learn pretty fast.

Also, as you learn, you can record yourself comping some changes (pick an easy standard) and then solo over them. I use a loop pedal for this and it's been really beneficial to me.
Quote by TGautier13
Because e-cred on a sub-par 4Chan knockoff forum is what everyone strives to achieve.
We believe - so we're misled
We assume - so we're played
We confide - so we're deceived
We trust - so we're betrayed
#5
If you want to play jazz you HAVE to be able to play over a ii-V-I progression. In your
sleep. You don't have to get much more complicated than that at first. You can learn
a LOT about jazz from mastering what can be done over that 1 little progression. From
there you can branch out in complexity. There's some ii-V-I stuff and BT in my profile.
#6
Quote by ramm_ty
Alternatively, you could download one. Saves you 40 bucks, and it's not like the musicians are getting any of it anyway.

I'm working on my reading too, using jazz lead sheets as practice. I started with anything in C, as it was easiest for me to read...it was pretty slow going at the beginning, but you might find you learn pretty fast.

Also, as you learn, you can record yourself comping some changes (pick an easy standard) and then solo over them. I use a loop pedal for this and it's been really beneficial to me.

im getting a (Boss?) loop pedal for christmas and thats exactly what i plan on doing.
is it possible to record more than one track?
like for instance, if i record a progression, then a lead over it, and then a 2nd harmonized lead?
and have them play all at once?
my 6 best friends:
Ibanez Artcore AF75
Schecter C-1 Hellraiser
LTD H-207 7 string
Ibanez Acoustic
#7
Quote by musicTHEORYnerd
im getting a (Boss?) loop pedal for christmas and thats exactly what i plan on doing.
is it possible to record more than one track?
like for instance, if i record a progression, then a lead over it, and then a 2nd harmonized lead?
and have them play all at once?
I have the Boss RC-2 (the small one) and the short answer is yes.

The long answer is I think you can put as many tracks as you want overtop. Don't quote me on that though, I've never layed more than 8 or so things at once.
Quote by TGautier13
Because e-cred on a sub-par 4Chan knockoff forum is what everyone strives to achieve.
We believe - so we're misled
We assume - so we're played
We confide - so we're deceived
We trust - so we're betrayed
#8
Get some backing tracks. Stuff that you can handle as a beginner like "Jamey Aeborsold - Nothing but the blues"

You need to work the scales and arpeggios in position consistantly everyday. You need to have control over the notes. This is very important.

Also, play the melody of the song (like Blue Bossa) over and over until you know it deep within and dont have to think about which notes to play. Then you can screw around with the melody of the song and mix it up with the scales and arpeggios.

Rhythm is important too. You need to listen to other players and copy some of their licks and jazz lines to get a feel for how to phrase your notes.
"How to Become a Better Musician" - is my online course at www.MyOnlineMusicLessons.com. Phrasing and Rhythmic Development, Improv Techniques, Jazz Theory, Ear Training and more. I'm also available for Skype/Hangout lessons.
#9
Quote by ramm_ty
I have the Boss RC-2 (the small one) and the short answer is yes.

The long answer is I think you can put as many tracks as you want overtop. Don't quote me on that though, I've never layed more than 8 or so things at once.

8 is more than enough for me, the most ill ever use is 3 or 4.

yeah im getting the RC-2 for christmas and i CANT WAIT.
i love harmonizing scales and riffs and stuff cause it sounds so cool lol.

i know it probably comes with a book explaining how to work it, but sometimes directional booklets suck.
is it easy to program and use and stuff?


EDIT: on musicians friend it says "11 phrases can be stored and recalled", and im pretty sure that means you can have 11 tracks play at once...but idk.
lol whatever 4 is more than enough for me.
my 6 best friends:
Ibanez Artcore AF75
Schecter C-1 Hellraiser
LTD H-207 7 string
Ibanez Acoustic
Last edited by musicTHEORYnerd at Dec 19, 2008,
#10
It's pretty easy to use, but you should read the booklet. Once you get the hang of it you're good to go.

Uhhh, where it talked about storing 11 'phrases'...there are 11 slots in which you can store tracks...but tracks can be made out of multiple layers. In slot 1 you could have a blues jam track with drums, rhythm guitar, and whatever else you decide to put on top of it, and in slot 2 you could have something totally different with 7 layered guitars. As you layer **** it just mixes it in to the track.
Quote by TGautier13
Because e-cred on a sub-par 4Chan knockoff forum is what everyone strives to achieve.
We believe - so we're misled
We assume - so we're played
We confide - so we're deceived
We trust - so we're betrayed
#11
Quote by ramm_ty
It's pretty easy to use, but you should read the booklet. Once you get the hang of it you're good to go.

Uhhh, where it talked about storing 11 'phrases'...there are 11 slots in which you can store tracks...but tracks can be made out of multiple layers. In slot 1 you could have a blues jam track with drums, rhythm guitar, and whatever else you decide to put on top of it, and in slot 2 you could have something totally different with 7 layered guitars. As you layer **** it just mixes it in to the track.

i cant wait to jam with it on christmas day.

im getting a $300 acoustic electric (i know $300 isnt AWSOME for an acoustic electric but ive wanted one for a while) for christmas too.

i feel like im 6 again!


EDIT: thanks for all the info on the pedal =]
my 6 best friends:
Ibanez Artcore AF75
Schecter C-1 Hellraiser
LTD H-207 7 string
Ibanez Acoustic
#12
Quote by SaulnierE
I know my modes and can use theory to build chords and such. But where should i start? ultimately i want to become competent in jazz soloing so that i can mix that in with my blues/rock playing, and because i enjoy it, and i also want to be able to comp pretty well. Where to start?



I'm in the same situation, I don't where to start, but I know the modes and chord structures. I have the New Real Book, but I never looked at it really. I don't understand 100% how to improvise using the modes.
#13
Quote by notthenameiwant
whats "comping"?
For a guitarist, playing the chords to the sheet music.

It actually means playing the accompaniment, anything from piano to basslines to trumpet fills to sax countermelodies. Whatever.

To T/S
You playing in a jazz band or are you just improvising jazz stuff for fun? If you're in a jazz band, don't expect too many solo's unless your director/co-ordinator likes you or likes guitar solo's.
I'm not too sure on advice I could give you to be a solo jazz guitarist, but I can give advice on being a big-band guitarist:
Know all your chords and how to build all of them. Know 3 voicings of the most common chords (mostly sevenths), 2 voicings of the common-ish chords (ninths, altered dominants so on) and at least 1 voicings of uncommon chords (like 13th chords or mM7 chords).
Know how to harmonize a scale for chords and improvise a progression. Allthough this only works when you're the only accomapiment instrument. I've had to play songs without sheet music and all I was given was a key signature.
        ,
        |\
[U]        | |                     [/U]
[U]        |/     .-.              [/U]
[U]       /|_     `-’       |      [/U]
[U]      //| \      |       |      [/U]
[U]     | \|_ |     |     .-|      [/U]
      *-|-*    (_)     `-’
        |
        L.
#14
Demon, I will be playing in a jazz band and improvising jazz stuff for fun.
How do i build those chords? i know my sevenths, but what are the formulas for the rest you mentioned?
Thanks everyone
#15
Quote by demonofthenight
For a guitarist, playing the chords to the sheet music.

It actually means playing the accompaniment, anything from piano to basslines to trumpet fills to sax countermelodies. Whatever.


To T/S
You playing in a jazz band or are you just improvising jazz stuff for fun? If you're in a jazz band, don't expect too many solo's unless your director/co-ordinator likes you or likes guitar solo's.
I'm not too sure on advice I could give you to be a solo jazz guitarist, but I can give advice on being a big-band guitarist:
Know all your chords and how to build all of them. Know 3 voicings of the most common chords (mostly sevenths), 2 voicings of the common-ish chords (ninths, altered dominants so on) and at least 1 voicings of uncommon chords (like 13th chords or mM7 chords).
Know how to harmonize a scale for chords and improvise a progression. Allthough this only works when you're the only accomapiment instrument. I've had to play songs without sheet music and all I was given was a key signature.

im not trying to prove you wrong or anything, cause im not sure if im correct.
but isnt "comping" also when you use your thumb to pick the E string, and the next three fingers to play the top of the chord?
or maybe thats called claw picking......
idk
i think your right but im not sure lol
my 6 best friends:
Ibanez Artcore AF75
Schecter C-1 Hellraiser
LTD H-207 7 string
Ibanez Acoustic
#16
^I thought that's just playing the bass part. You can get some cool walking bass lines by yourself by doing that. It's hard as hell though (at least when I tried... and then gave up, lol)

Quote by edg
If you want to play jazz you HAVE to be able to play over a ii-V-I progression. In your
sleep. You don't have to get much more complicated than that at first. You can learn
a LOT about jazz from mastering what can be done over that 1 little progression. From
there you can branch out in complexity. There's some ii-V-I stuff and BT in my profile.
+100 fo sho

Before anything though: LEARN YOUR TRIADS. You must know them on 3 parallel strings in their 4 places and then their 2 inversions. If you can do that, you can point out a chord tone anywhere on the neck making it easier to solo over that ii-V-I After you get triads down try goin for 7ths and 9ths. Mess around with it.


I can't play jazz. I'm trying to because I've really grown to love it. I'm learning just like you. I'm just posting what I've read to be the best grounds/base for learning jazz.


EDIT: You might like this: http://www.outsideshore.com/primer/primer/index.html
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”


-Max Planck

☮∞☯♥
Last edited by metal4all at Dec 19, 2008,
#17
Quote by musicTHEORYnerd
im not trying to prove you wrong or anything, cause im not sure if im correct.
but isnt "comping" also when you use your thumb to pick the E string, and the next three fingers to play the top of the chord?
or maybe thats called claw picking......
idk
i think your right but im not sure lol


No, he is correct. 'Comping' is short for accompanying. I don't know or think there is a specific term for what you're describing other than fingerpicking.
#18
Quote by metal4all

Before anything though: LEARN YOUR TRIADS. You must know them on 3 parallel strings in their 4 places and then their 2 inversions. If you can do that, you can point out a chord tone anywhere on the neck making it easier to solo over that ii-V-I After you get triads down try goin for 7ths and 9ths. Mess around with it.


Absolutely. If you do no other scale practice, practice doing diatonic triads at least a bit
every day. It's really helpful for any kind of music.

You don't necessarily have to outline the II-V-I chords, but I chord definitely moves things
to a rest. Generally you'll want to find the 1-3-5 of that chord in there. Or, using
triadic generalized lines (that's where your line revolves around the 1-3-5 notes of the
I chord through the whole progression).

I think if you're going to start learning something new like this, the best way is to find the
basic structures that form the core of the music and then learn it to death by exploring
it in different ways. The II-V-I is it for jazz. I had jazz lessons for a couple years a
while ago and learned almost nothing from it. We just went from song to song and I
floundered the whole time. I really couldn't even play over a II-V-I at the time, so how
would I be able to play anything else?! If my teacher had made sure I understood a lot
of concepts just from working II-V-I studies for a while, I would have been in a much
better position to move to more complex stuff.
#19
I would say you should start with songs with a ii-V-I progression because it's really really popular and it's the first thing I did when I started. I think Tune-up by Miles Davis has all ii-V-I, so try that. Find the backing track and just try improvising over it with modes and arpeggios.
#20
In rock guitar playing sometimes you can 'wing it' without learning theory (unless you're a member of Dream Theater) but in jazz that's pretty well impossible. Learn your theory, essentials are chord-scale relationships, the modes of the major, harmonic minor, melodic minor and harmonic major scales, 9th, 11th, and 13th tensions, and how to effortlessly use this knowledge when improvising.