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#1
What, in your opinion, are the pros and cons of writing with guitar pro? Also, what are the pros and cons of writing without the 'assistance' of a program?

To me I find that guitar pro give access to so many scales and chords I find myself lost in the realm of music theory and trying to understand where I can use all this stuff. I also find that I write things that are so damn complex that I don't have a snowballs chance in hell to freakin play it.
What I do like about guitar pro is that once something is in the program, there is no way for it to forget it. When I make up a riff or something that I like (VERY RARE) if I do not immediately write it down, or import it into guitar pro, I will forget it almost immediately. Which is quite unfortunate, I might add.

What are your thoughts?
#3
I fail to see why there would be any advantages or disadvantages. Guitar pro is just an alternative to writing down music on paper.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#4
I agree with the person above. I don't really see any con's except the price for buying such a product (Guitar Pro). I would say its worth it, because it gives you everything you need but the other con that passed my mind (for Guitar Pro) would be that you can't write a full orchestral score (with techniques marked etc) for example, as Guitar Pro in my opinion is better for writing down larger band styles or just writing band ideas. Personally I use it to remember some ideas that me and my band could play, and seen as they all have it too, I just need to send the file to them and they can play aloing with it meaning we get a good tempo when we congregate together to play.
#5
Quote by Archeo Avis
I fail to see why there would be any advantages or disadvantages. Guitar pro is just an alternative to writing down music on paper.


Yeah that's the way I'd see it as well. The only real advantage for me is that you can mess around with some seriously weird time signatures, it makes it easier to write in 7/4 or whatever.
#6
I don't really use guitar pro to search for new scales or chords, I just write the song on my guitar and while I'm writing I put it in guitar pro. It much easier than writing everything down on paper and you can add drums and everything and play along to them so you can check if the song really sounds as good als you think it does in your head.

It's a great tool for writing more complex pieces of music and sharing them with your bandmembers. Usually we just e-mail each other parts of music in guitar pro and add to them, it's very efficient without limiting your creativity. When you make up stuff while you're jamming you tend to forget it the day after or focus too much around the same chords since otherwise everything will get to complex to remember.
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#7
With GP you are likely to not develop a true personal guitarstyle. You won't develop a "relationship" with ur instruments in regards to vibrato, phrasing and quirky timings, as well as getting to know ur instrument (timbre, and where everything is on the guitar)

If you write a piece or a musical score, then you can use gp. If you however write guitarparts in gp they will sound sterile.

I bet you 50 bucks if u lay down 10 pieces on record written on gp and 10 by conventional writing I can hear/tell which 1's are written with a program and which came from the instrument.

If you however write on guitar and input it in gp and lay down the extra drum and bass there, then you will only receive crit by drummers (as usual)

If you however could write tunes in gp, then by that theory I can send u all the midi files from a dream theater album before you heard the actual recordings and you would have seen it as a "Masterpiece" (Given that you would see that album as a masterpiece after hearing the record)

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Dec 21, 2008,
#8
With GP you are likely to not develop a true personal guitarstyle. You won't develop a "relationship" with ur instruments in regards to vibrato, phrasing and quirky timings.


Why, exactly, is that? I don't recall the TS ever mentioning that he was planning on abandoning the the guitar in favor of a passionate affair with Guitar Pro.

If you write a piece or a musical score, then you can use gp. IF you however write guitarparts in gp they will sound sterile.


Why, exactly, is that? Why does the guitar have such special status? Anything will sound sterile through GT's MIDI, but the act of writing in Guitar Pro won't magically make your songwriting sound "sterile".

I bet you 50 bucks if u lay down 10 pieces on record written on gp and 10 by conventional writing I can hear which 1 are written with a program and which came from the instrument.


Guitar Pro is notation software. It is " conventional writing".
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#9
Quote by xxdarrenxx
With GP you are likely to not develop a true personal guitarstyle. You won't develop a "relationship" with ur instruments in regards to vibrato, phrasing and quirky timings, as well as getting to know ur instrument (timbre, and where everything is on the guitar)



Agred , gutar pro is great but its not the best thing to whrit songs.
Becaus they sound so industrial like they were made in a factory.
But still Gp is a great tooll to learn and present song to other.
And its cool because you can hear the rhitem and the notes exactl
as they are. Good for beginers as myself.
#10
Quote by Ic3
Agred , gutar pro is great but its not the best thing to whrit songs.
Becaus they sound so industrial like they were made in a factory.
But still Gp is a great tooll to learn and present song to other.
And its cool because you can hear the rhitem and the notes exactl
as they are. Good for beginers as myself.


That is completely ridiculous. Guitar Pro doesn't have an automated songwriting feature; it doesn't write the song for you. It's notation software for Christ's sake. It makes your music sound sterile in the same way that notating it with a pen and paper makes it sound sterile, which is to say that it doesn't.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#11
Quote by Archeo Avis
Why, exactly, is that? I don't recall the TS ever mentioning that he was planning on abandoning the the guitar in favor of a passionate affair with Guitar Pro.


Because if you play on ur guitar, you get to know the instrument.

Have you never had the problem that u wrote a great melodic line on gp, only to find out u need to make 10 fret leaps to play them on guitar. You can say; no, I write with that in mind, but then it's highly unlikely that you will find new ways to play on guitar, because you have to visualize everything.

Of course you have virtuoso's who can visualize exactly (like Beethoven or Mozart) how it is gonna sound and if a particular instrument can play it without getting muscle tension problem". But I see a lot of bands play in Amsterdam, and a lot of younger kids who write in gp, there songs sound so sterile. They only think about the notes and totally forgot the guitar's sonic qualities.


Quote by Archeo Avis

Why, exactly, is that? Why does the guitar have such special status? Anything will sound sterile through GT's MIDI, but the act of writing in Guitar Pro won't magically make your songwriting sound "sterile".


Because a Guitar is slightly different then for example a Piano. A piano you are not in direct contact with the note. The tone of a piano will always stay the same independent who plays it, only the dynamics and timing will differ.

A guitar doesn't, just like a saxophone, violin etc; there's a direct contact with the note. And you have various sweet spots that a program can't mimic. Sometimes something on a guitar sounds good because it's goes in a slight feedback and a program can never mimmick this.

Alot of players hereby only work with notes, and if I see them play live I just see people who came up with different note patterns and that's it. I mean sometimes I see interesting things, but if I have to watch that 5 times a week, it gets pretty bland.

Take Miles Davis, he often blew to hard which made the note crack up, which later evolved as his signature sound a program will NEVER come up with this.

Or try to write all of Steve Vai's sounds and exact rhythms in gp, that would take ages to exactly incorporate that in midi let alone come up with it when writing in gp.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Dec 21, 2008,
#12
Quote by Archeo Avis
That is completely ridiculous. Guitar Pro doesn't have an automated songwriting feature; it doesn't write the song for you. It's notation software for Christ's sake. It makes your music sound sterile in the same way that notating it with a pen and paper makes it sound sterile, which is to say that it doesn't.



sry my bad English think i miss whrote the point

i yust tryed to say that if you whrite the song whit a gutar you more do it outh of yourself the natural rhytem and stuf but by whriting you i dont know , you look at things to tehnicly at least thats what i found myself doing .
#13
Quote by Archeo Avis
That is completely ridiculous. Guitar Pro doesn't have an automated songwriting feature; it doesn't write the song for you. It's notation software for Christ's sake. It makes your music sound sterile in the same way that notating it with a pen and paper makes it sound sterile, which is to say that it doesn't.

The difference is Guitar Pro plays it back for you - with something like that it's very easy to get carried away and write stuff you've got no chance of playing, but because you can not only create but also hear more complex music on GP it can become a crutch. As long as you make a point of WRITING with the guitar, but notating in GP then you'll stay within your capabilities.
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#14
You could say the same about paper. I know that harmonics sound especially good on my classical guitar when playing the note with your right hand about two fingers from the bridge. If I were to write down every nuance in tone like that, then if someone were ever to perform my music they would lose their own creative independence.


I prefer writing down in paper, because I'm really slow with guitar pro or finale and stuff like that, but in the end it comes down to what you prefer. There isn't one that is superior to another.
#15
Because if you play on ur guitar, you get to know the instrument.


What does this have to do with writing music on Guitar Pro?

Have you never had the problem that u wrote a great melodic line on gp, only to find out u need to make 10 fret leaps to play them on guitar. You can say; no, I write with that in mind, but then it's highly unlikely that you will find new ways to play on guitar, because you have to visualize everything.


Ridiculous for several reasons, the most obvious being that any competent guitarist will be aware of their physical limitations. Let's apply this reasoning to another situation, shall we? By this line of reasoning, a composer (let's say Mozart) should not have composed for any instrument that he himself did not play, since it is entirely possible he may have written something difficult or impossible for the instrument. Of course, composing anything in his head is entirely out of the question (for the reasons you list).

Of course you have virtuoso's who can visualize exactly (like Beethoven or Mozart) how it is gonna sound and if a particular instrument can play it without getting muscle tension problem". But I see a lot of bands play in Amsterdam, and a lot of younger kids who write in gp, there songs sound so sterile. They only think about the notes and totally forgot the guitar's sonic qualities.


That has absolutely nothing to do with Guitar Pro and everything to do with their songwriting abilities.

Because a Guitar is slightly different then for example a Piano. A piano you are not in direct contact with the note. The tone of a piano will always stay the same independent who plays it, only the dynamics and timing will differ.


You have obviously never played a piano in your life.

A guitar doesn't, just like a saxophone, violin etc; there's a direct contact with the note. And you have various sweet spots that a program can't mimic. Sometimes something on a guitar sounds good because it's goes in a slight feedback and a program can never mimmick this.


This is true for any instrument, and is completely irrelevant. What does this have to do with writing music in Guitar Pro?

Alot of players hereby only work with notes, and if I see them play live I just see people who came up with different note patterns and that's it. I mean sometimes I see interesting things, but if I have to watch that 5 times a week, it gets pretty bland.


That has absolutely nothing to do with Guitar Pro and everything to do with their songwriting abilities.

Take Miles Davis, he often blew to hard which made the note crack up, which later evolved as his signature sound a program will NEVER come up with this.


That has absolutely nothing to do with Guitar Pro and everything to do with their songwriting abilities (though a computer would be entirely capable of replicating said sound)

Or try to write all of Steve Vai's sounds and exact rhythms in gp, that would take ages to exactly incorporate that in midi let alone come up with it when writing in gp.


At this point, I'm annoyed enough to just say "bull****". I don't even know what your point is anymore. You cannot attack Guitar Pro as a means of notation without attacking all of standard notation. For the love of God, GP is ****ing notation software. Guitar Pro is not writing any God damned music (although computers are entirely capable of writing music that Human listeners find indistinguishable from Human compositions).
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#16
Quote by Archeo Avis

At this point, I'm annoyed enough to just say "bull****". I don't even know what your point is anymore. You cannot attack Guitar Pro as a means of notation without attacking all of standard notation. For the love of God, GP is ****ing notation software. Guitar Pro is not writing any God damned music (although computers are entirely capable of writing music that Human listeners find indistinguishable from Human compositions).


TS means you write things in gp, play it back and if you like the sound u keep it and write songs.

He means songwriting in gp NOT notating. I totally respect it as notation software. HE basically means pick a scale in gp, click notes that u like and play it back. Then play it on guitar.

And I have a piano. The hammer that strikes the string stays the same. The actual timbre of the piano stays the same. Where with other instruments it totally depends on how u fret and where/how u pick the note. OR on a sax how good ur lungs/ breathing technique is.

You have NO vibrato on a piano and u CANNOT create overtones on a piano because u are NOT in direct contact with the production of the note. So don't make stupid statement to me of "you don't know what a piano is"

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Dec 21, 2008,
#18
Quote by Confusius
Actually, timbre of piano can vary a lot depending on how you strike the key.


That's dynamic control.

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#19
Quote by Archeo Avis
I fail to see why there would be any advantages or disadvantages. Guitar pro is just an alternative to writing down music on paper.


so..
typing something up on microsoft word as compared to writing something down on paper should not have any pro's or con's either? :S
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#20
A piano you are not in direct contact with the note. The tone of a piano will always stay the same independent who plays it, only the dynamics and timing will differ.


Trust me, you're very wrong. The only evidence I have for you is anecdotal, but if you persist in your disbelief, try attending a masterclass and see just how different the tone is of each student and even of the teacher.

Oh, and maybe you can even try for yourself. Try playing with curved fingers, and then again with flat fingers. The difference is striking. (no pun intended)

Anyways, the weakness of GP is that it can very well function as a crutch. Of course, this too is its advantage since it contains such a wealth of information inside it and writing with paper, as it so happens, suffers only from it's absence of a crutch. To it's credit though there is a unique atmosphere to writing with paper.
#21
Oh dear. It appears people are failing here.

For all the people saying you don't "create a bond with your instrument" that quite frankly is utter bullsh*t. Its not like we sit down and write music like that, we have our instrument with us while we write our music .

Secondly - the music sounding sterile? The only thing I imagine making it sound sterile would be the MIDI but the noise has got to come from somewhere. If you write on something like Guitar Pro you're actually more likely to be more creative than if you were to write down from your guitar, as on a piece of notation software, you can write what you think, not what you know, making your pieces much more imaginative than anything you yourself can actually play. Hell, I could try writing a solo in 512th notes, and I know I can't do that in real life. What if the outcome were successful? (rather doubt it) - I would have something that would be impossible to play yet more imaginative than anything I could actually do in real life. I would only notate something if it used strong rubato in it or a blues solo with an odd rhythm.

I can sort of see why it breaks a 'bond' between you and your instrument as you probably think people who use notation software sit and write it like that when actually whenever I write a song, I always have my guitar handy (for example) so I can get the right pitch of bend or so that my material is possible to play.

Theres nothing "hardcore" about writing it down, nor does it making you/or your music any better. It just requires more time than using something like Guitar Pro and people who do music as a hobby may not have ages to write down ideas before they forget. An added bonus to using Guitar Pro is that your music will actually sound more planned and layed out as compared to writing it down, where parts need to be changed (which isn't easy if its written down) or more parts added.

To sum up, I have nothing against writing down music but I hate people saying it makes you less of a musician to use notation software than to write it down. People don't have the time these days.
Last edited by salamander121 at Dec 21, 2008,
#22
Quote by salamander121
Oh dear. It appears people are failing here.

For all the people saying you don't "create a bond with your instrument" that quite frankly is utter bullsh*t. Its not like we sit down and write music like that, we have our instrument with us while we write our music .

Secondly - the music sounding sterile? The only thing I imagine making it sound sterile would be the MIDI but the noise has got to come from somewhere. If you write on something like Guitar Pro you're actually more likely to be more creative than if you were to write down from your guitar, as on a piece of notation software, you can write what you think, not what you know, making your pieces much more imaginative than anything you yourself can actually play. Hell, I could try writing a solo in 512th notes, and I know I can't do that in real life. What if the outcome were successful? (rather doubt it) - I would have something that would be impossible to play yet more imaginative than anything I could actually do in real life. I would only notate something if it used strong rubato in it or a blues solo with an odd rhythm.

I can sort of see why it breaks a 'bond' between you and your instrument as you probably think people who use notation software sit and write it like that when actually whenever I write a song, I always have my guitar handy (for example) so I can get the right pitch of bend or so that my material is possible to play.

Theres nothing "hardcore" about writing it down, nor does it making you/or your music any better. It just requires more time than using something like Guitar Pro and people who do music as a hobby may not have ages to write down ideas before they forget. An added bonus to using Guitar Pro is that your music will actually sound more planned and layed out as compared to writing it down, where parts need to be changed (which isn't easy if its written down) or more parts added.

To sum up, I have nothing against writing down music but I hate people saying it makes you less of a musician to use notation software than to write it down. People don't have the time these days.


I believe it doesn't show ur skill in guitar playing, but just shows ur skill in how many scale patterns can u come up with.

Anyone can write 7 string sweep taps at 500 bpm going through a diatonic progression in gp. For me the magic lies in making something technical hard, while still sounding organic.

I just see that about 80% of the people that write in gp and then play on guitar totally miss the dynamics of a piece.

Ofcourse you can write stuff on gp, but then you probably write something that you already have played on ur guitar like palmmuted E notes or certain chords, which makes it indirectly notating as opposed to make crazy sweeps that you can't even play.

Great Musicians are great because people understand how they think. They know when they play a certain note what they mean with it. They see this and is often reffered to as "Soul". Soul is a misleading word. But it's like when vai plays a "vai lick" you can say "that sounds so vai" or when petrucci plays a typical lick of his that sounds "so Petrucci".

Joe Satriani plays so many standard blues licks, yet u can still recognise when he's the one playing them and go like "that's totally joe. In gp you don't get those little nuances, and it's easy to overdo ideas and have 1 composition with 6 string neoclassical sweeps and the other string skipping taps in 15/16 at 160 bpm.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Dec 21, 2008,
#23
Quote by xxdarrenxx
I believe it doesn't show ur skill in guitar playing, but just shows ur skill in how many scale patterns can u come up with.

Anyone can write 7 string sweep taps at 500 bpm going through a diatonic progression in gp. For me the magic lies in making something technical hard, while still sounding organic.

I just see that about 80% of the people that write in gp and then play on guitar totally miss the dynamics of a piece.

Ofcourse you can write stuff on gp, but then you probably write something that you already have played on ur guitar like palmmuted E notes or certain chords, which makes it indirectly notating as opposed to make crazy sweeps that you can't even play.

Great Musicians are great because people understand how they think. They know when they play a certain note what they mean with it. They see this and is often reffered to as "Soul". Soul is a misleading word. But it's like when vai plays a "vai lick" you can say "that sounds so vai" or when petrucci plays a typical lick of his that sounds "so Petrucci".

Joe Satriani plays so many standard blues licks, yet u can still recognise when he's the one playing them and go like "that's totally joe. In gp you don't get those little nuances, and it's easy to overdo ideas and have 1 composition with 6 string neoclassical sweeps and the other string skipping taps in 15/16 at 160 bpm.
Out of curiousity, have you ever written for a non-strung instrument?
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[U]       /|_     `-’       |      [/U]
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      *-|-*    (_)     `-’
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        L.
#24
Quote by demonofthenight
Out of curiousity, have you ever written for a non-strung instrument?


Yes I have, I make electronic music as well.

Loungey
http://www.box.net/shared/fl9fqyt37f

And some Hip Hop for friends;
http://www.box.net/shared/7n2rccg9ac
http://www.box.net/shared/0k9xui1ocv

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Dec 21, 2008,
#25
Actually not bad (I'd pay for loungey), but I must ask, where was your theory on dynamics and phrasing and personal relationships with the guitar when you wrote that?
        ,
        |\
[U]        | |                     [/U]
[U]        |/     .-.              [/U]
[U]       /|_     `-’       |      [/U]
[U]      //| \      |       |      [/U]
[U]     | \|_ |     |     .-|      [/U]
      *-|-*    (_)     `-’
        |
        L.
#26
Quote by demonofthenight
Actually not bad (I'd pay for loungey), but I must ask, where was your theory on dynamics and phrasing and personal relationships with the guitar when you wrote that?


Wrote what?

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#27
The only thing I haven't liked is that if I don't go in knowing exactly what I want to write, I'll often just kind of fill in rhythms and it won't really reflect my style of playing. It usually doesn't matter, however, because like I said I usually know exactly what I want to write down before I get to the computer.
#28
Different strokes for different folks. Personally, I really get off on the mental state I'm in when I'm actually playing, and feel that I'm more creative then. I'll figure out what I was playing later, and transcribe into gp/tux guitar later. But that's just me, everyone's wired a little differently. If someone has such a good ear that they can mentally hear the entire thing before picking up the guitar, then hats off to them! I'm jealous.

THe danger of writing stuff that is impossible to play is actually a benefit imo. That is, if a person has some restraint and winds up writing something that is only slightly out of the realms for what is possible for them to play. Well, that's a great excuse to work on your chops so that you can pull it off. I think there's more of a tendency to stay within what is comfortable when writing on the guitar.

I agree that midi guitar sounds particularly horrible compared to say midi piano. But maybe I am biased because I'm a guitarist.
#29
Quote by se012101
Different strokes for different folks. Personally, I really get off on the mental state I'm in when I'm actually playing, and feel that I'm more creative then. I'll figure out what I was playing later, and transcribe into gp/tux guitar later. But that's just me, everyone's wired a little differently. If someone has such a good ear that they can mentally hear the entire thing before picking up the guitar, then hats off to them! I'm jealous.

THe danger of writing stuff that is impossible to play is actually a benefit imo. That is, if a person has some restraint and winds up writing something that is only slightly out of the realms for what is possible for them to play. Well, that's a great excuse to work on your chops so that you can pull it off. I think there's more of a tendency to stay within what is comfortable when writing on the guitar.

I agree that midi guitar sounds particularly horrible compared to say midi piano. But maybe I am biased because I'm a guitarist.


This is because technically a Piano has less variables in it's sound. So a computer has to produce less complex algorithms.

I will explain, because I'm bored atm;

If you can strike a piano key at a 1000 different (audible) volumes/timbres. Then you need an algorithm of a 1000:1 ratio.

You can hit the piano key on different places, but the hammer that strikes the string stays the same independent if u have thick fingers or thin fingers or sweaty fingers or even if u use ur feet.

So it's always 1 at the first option and the 2nd option is 1000 variables of volume/timbre. You need to program 1000 sounds and then use another algorithm (easy one)for the 12 pitches, which is also still 1 variable because you determine which note to play, which is 1 option, cause you make the yes or no for the note, and not the computer (unless it has AI)

A piano is also the most stable instrument soundwise and also technically the most logically layed out. It also has the biggest range, which makes it composing instrument number 1 in the world, because it's sound is very neutral.


A guitar has 1000 different timbres and 12 notes, which is the easy part.

Add a 1000+ different combinations of vibrato width + speed and you have another 10k variables u need to program.

Then u have the different harmonic overtones. The ones u use for semi harmonics and pinches. Different pickup combinations will create different harmonic spots and overtones and then u have distortion which also adds different overtones.

Then you have the way of ur picking angle and how u hit the strings, which also change the sound (to my ears enough to notice it even if i'm drunk)

So that comes to about 100.000+ variables. Which is why the guitar is to date still 1 of the hardest to emulate digitally, and the reason why my head loves guitar the most.

If your a musician based more on the organized system of music, you will most likely go for the piano. If your someone who goes beyond the theory and also cares for sound in general, then ur probably going for guitar.

This reflects in about 90% of people playing piano or guitar.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Dec 21, 2008,
#30
Well, it's just a notation device, just as standard notation and such (you even have score in guitar pro, and you can even use text to indicate standard notation markings like stacatto or ritenuto, although you can mark them differently in GP so as the midi that plays reflects that).

Well, the MIDI is another advantage I would say.
It can let you hear how it sounds without the actual performance or possesion of perfect/relative pitch.
Of course it doesn't portray "actual" sound, since it's just an "event manager", and PCs and such don't have that many events to make it sound as the real thing.
But it does have enough events to resemble it, and it let's you imagine how it would sound in real life, independant of the obvious differences....

Well, the thing with the "bond" between instruments..
For composing you don't need to play an instrument, you only need an instrument to reproduce the music. GP has the usage of MIDI to play an "approximation" of the music to you, so you know what you are composing (without relying on aural memory and pitch recognition).
Although it is generally adviced that if one plays an instrument and one wants to compose one should use said instrument so then one knows how to play what you make, but if you compose for different instruments it doens't compute, or if you want to compose in a higher level of your current instrumental ability...
#31
It's a handy tool, in mah humble opinion.

Useful for those times when you're simply not in the mood to play guitar (or aren't able to crank the living shit out of your amp) and still want to write something. If you have a decently powerful computer with a good soundcard you can get a nice band feel going on with the RSE, which is good for arranging.

Pro Tools ftw though.
#32
Haven't read all the posts as some started flaming.
GP is "OK" as a notational software for guitar but it's strength is in ease of use and the RSE playback. It is very good for quick score notation andfor hearing a decent approximation.

Has some serious flaws and bugs in terms of notation, it won't allow user choice of acccidentals assignation and will even assign accidentals incorrectly in some keys etc. Personally I don't like the convention of always using the note under the fret as the pitch of the bend in the standard score - it distorts the visual and musical sense of the melodic line.

If you want good score writing software go to Sibelius, Finale or Encore or similar.

But GP is fun.
#33
I get what xxdarrenxx is saying about it making the music sterile. A lot of people will write in GP and then play what they wrote verbatim. Your "style" in GP is different from your style on an actual guitar (which sometimes cannot even be encompassed in GP). If you try to write in GP approximately how you would play on guitar then it would not be a problem, but instead, an advantage. Otherwise, GP is still a great tool for arranging, scales, chords and other things. It's also hell-a fun to play around with. I've written tons of songs in there -- not for my own playing, but as a final product. I've written and completed whole songs all in GP. It's a fun side hobby.
#34
I see so many people these days write more songs on GP then guitar, because they are to lazy to work hard for their guitar skills, and let a computer play sick patterns is way easier then to sit there a few hours.

And this is not a random comment. I see about 1 - 100000 ratio of bad guitar players. And about 97% of them can only play around with gp tab and have bad ear and sterile technique etc.

I even get asked tabs for happy b-day song. I mean if you can't even figure that song out by ear, then how do you ever think you can visualize a composition!!

You can't, but you subconsciously just use the scale tool in GP and pick notes that are in the scale.

1 day they run out of scales and random note choices, and they come here in MT asking for "what scales to use to sound.." or any permutation of said question. I'm sure the MT regulars know what I'm talking about.

If you can't transcribe songs by ear, then how can u possibly think you can write songs of the same level by visualisation in ur head?


By this theory it means you know exactly how something will sound on guitar, thus you can "Visualize" for example a dreamtheater song and transcribe it, since you have such great skills for note visualisation


Seriously how can you think you can get exactly on paper what u hear in ur head, when you can't figure out stuff by ear??

EDIT: I just realized how off topic I went, srry for that. I still think it's all more or less related.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Dec 22, 2008,
#35
I had a roommate who "wrote" songs on guitar pro. They didn't arise from a musical idea when practicing or jamming. He just would put chords into guitar pro, and then afterward play them. Needless to say, they all sounded the same, and were terrible "songs" and just variations of the same idea.

Having said that, I assume you mean writing them, and THEN putting them into guitar pro. If you plan to show others, I guess guitar pro would be a very effective way, being that you can play them or turn them into MIDI files. But if you're just doing it to not forget the song, your good ol' noggin should be more favorable.

EDIT: +1 for the guy above me. That is exactly what I was talking about. Never be that person. Guitar Pro is your tool, not your instrument. Let the piece of wood with strings be your channel, not a bunch of 1s and 0s.
Last edited by hunterman at Dec 22, 2008,
#36
Quote by xxdarrenxx
I see so many people these days write more songs on GP then guitar, because they are to lazy to work hard for their guitar skills, and let a computer play sick patterns is way easier then to sit there a few hours.

And this is not a random comment. I see about 1 - 100000 ratio of bad guitar players. And about 97% of them can only play around with gp tab and have bad ear and sterile technique etc.

I even get asked tabs for happy b-day song. I mean if you can't even figure that song out by ear, then how do you ever think you can visualize a composition!!

You can't, but you subconsciously just use the scale tool in GP and pick notes that are in the scale.

1 day they run out of scales and random note choices, and they come here in MT asking for "what scales to use to sound.." or any permutation of said question. I'm sure the MT regulars know what I'm talking about.

If you can't transcribe songs by ear, then how can u possibly think you can write songs of the same level by visualisation in ur head?


By this theory it means you know exactly how something will sound on guitar, thus you can "Visualize" for example a dreamtheater song and transcribe it, since you have such great skills for note visualisation


Seriously how can you think you can get exactly on paper what u hear in ur head, when you can't figure out stuff by ear??

EDIT: I just realized how off topic I went, srry for that. I still think it's all more or less related.

I've noticed that a lot of people who play instruments never think about the idea of working something out by ear.

These people tend to be people who just play exactly what their teacher shows them, and never learn anything on their own outside the lesson. Some of these people would be able to transcribe things like happy birthday but it honestly does not occur to them that they could just sit down and work it out.
#37
Hey darren, transcription is NOT equal to composition

As valuable as it is, you do NOT need to be able to transcribe a complete song to write a complete song.
Alot of guys just pick up their guitars and noodle (amazing isn't it?) and than just combine their noodlings in a tastefull manner. OMG, no transcription needed.

Some writers don't even use an instrument. Alot of composers just hum out random things and write them down (pity this means mostly diatonic music). Still no transcripion needed (not really). Than you combine these vocal noodlings together and there you have it, another song.

Having a "good ear" has been blown out of proportion. Valuable, yes. Needed for writing music? No.

Could a mod please close this thread and in future, can we report guitar-pro threads?
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#39
Quote by demonofthenight
Hey darren, transcription is NOT equal to composition

As valuable as it is, you do NOT need to be able to transcribe a complete song to write a complete song.
Alot of guys just pick up their guitars and noodle (amazing isn't it?) and than just combine their noodlings in a tastefull manner. OMG, no transcription needed.

Some writers don't even use an instrument. Alot of composers just hum out random things and write them down (pity this means mostly diatonic music). Still no transcripion needed (not really). Than you combine these vocal noodlings together and there you have it, another song.

Having a "good ear" has been blown out of proportion. Valuable, yes. Needed for writing music? No.

Could a mod please close this thread and in future, can we report guitar-pro threads?


True, but after a while they "get to know" which notes they like, and will use them more then others. They will then develop their own style. I mean if u choose a particular note or lick over a progression, then there must be something that makes u choose that note instead of another note in the key. That's a good ear, cause ur aware of which notes u play.

If you play random ****, you can easily tell, because the secret lies in what you don't play, and someone who plays random pentatonic licks is easy to spot (reference; all the people that play standard scales up and down with poor or no phrasing, and the ones that repeatedly ask; "what scales do u play")

Think logical, if I am such a person, then I just have to visualize glassgow kiss by petrucci in my mind, and I can write it down. I mean Petrucci uses the same (western) notes as you will use for ur composition, so why can you get exactly what's in ur head down on gp without touching an instrument, but you can't transcribe a petrucci piece. That's just deception of ur own mind? OR is it magic?

I think that they just click notes from the GP scale tool.


The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
(most intelligent)
The "Good Samaritan" Award 2009 (most helpful)

[font="Palatino Linotype
Who's Andy Timmons??
Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Dec 22, 2008,
#40
Quote by xxdarrenxx
I see so many people these days write more songs on GP then guitar, because they are to lazy to work hard for their guitar skills, and let a computer play sick patterns is way easier then to sit there a few hours.

And this is not a random comment. I see about 1 - 100000 ratio of bad guitar players. And about 97% of them can only play around with gp tab and have bad ear and sterile technique etc.

I even get asked tabs for happy b-day song. I mean if you can't even figure that song out by ear, then how do you ever think you can visualize a composition!!

You can't, but you subconsciously just use the scale tool in GP and pick notes that are in the scale.

1 day they run out of scales and random note choices, and they come here in MT asking for "what scales to use to sound.." or any permutation of said question. I'm sure the MT regulars know what I'm talking about.

If you can't transcribe songs by ear, then how can u possibly think you can write songs of the same level by visualisation in ur head?


By this theory it means you know exactly how something will sound on guitar, thus you can "Visualize" for example a dreamtheater song and transcribe it, since you have such great skills for note visualisation


Seriously how can you think you can get exactly on paper what u hear in ur head, when you can't figure out stuff by ear??

EDIT: I just realized how off topic I went, srry for that. I still think it's all more or less related.


I'm sure I couldn't transcribe even a happy birthday song (well, maybe in a few tries, it doesn't matter anyways) but I don't "use the scale tool in GP and pick notes that are in the scale".
Most of the time I just write the key signature and I know which accidentals/scale I'm using and know the least about diatonic functionality to know which note I'm going to play...

In GP I mostly make some progression with my acoustic and then compose a lead guitar part with GP.
I don't have an electric guitar, so composing solos won't make me "stale" or something, because I can't even play them (or make them sound good if I do).

And I can't see how writting a bassoon part has anything to do with ear training, or even transcribing..
If you know theory, and know how things work, then you can compose without even "hearing" it.
I mean, I say "okay, I'll write a ii-I6/4-IV-V progression followed by some rest and then a phrigian solo in a I-bII-vii progression, trying to fit some chromatic runs in between semiphrases, and in said semiphrases make the bass note play down a degree each bar and bla bla bla"...
Then I write my solo without even hearing it, and if I know how things work musically, I can assure you it would sound good.
So then how useful is "transcribing a Dream Theatre song" when composing?

so why can you get exactly what's in ur head down on gp without touching an instrument, but you can't transcribe a petrucci piece. That's just deception of ur own mind? OR is it magic?


???
Because I know how western music works, but I don't have any form of pitch recognition?


I know having a good ear is good, if you use it right, but it is not the "ultimate" composing skill and if you don't have it you are doomed...
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