#1
I am speaking of bands such as Nickelback, Coldplay, Oasis, Green Day, Tokio Hotel, Deicide, Fall Out Boy, Panic At The Disco, Linkin Park, Korn, Slipknot, Staind, Credd, Limp Bizkit....The general consensus amongst the guitar-playing community is that these bands suck like a Hoover.

Now it definitely isn't the music, which would be the obvious answer in a sane world, as all of these bands have very different sounds...

whilst some bands, such as Strapping Young Lad, Between The Buried And Me, Alice In Chains, Megadeth, Porcupine Tree, Opeth, Dream Theater, Eric Clapton, etc, are unconditionally loved by most of the guitar-playing community?

I guess to tl;dr....what creates a reputation for integrity?
#2
Musicians need to justify their existence, so they place a high emphasis on technical skill. The general populace couldn't give a **** about technical skill (rightfully so, it's a mean to an end, not an end in and of itself). So when a band with less skill makes it big, musicians tend to take it as a personal affront to their own efforts and abilities.
Basically, musicians tend to have their heads up their asses.
#3
true, but then Hendrix wasn't the most technically gifted player ever, and the critics love him.
The same is true of Adam Jones.
#4
By Adam Jones you mean the band Tool?

Well I think it all just comes down to what peoples tastes are. If you don't like the band, people say they're horrible instead of "not my type"
#5
Quote by Clownocaster#1
true, but then Hendrix wasn't the most technically gifted player ever, and the critics love him.
The same is true of Adam Jones.


He was in his time. Without Hendrix we wouldnt have many of the guitarists who we bow down to today.
#6
At the time, Hendrix was by far the most technically gifted guitarist in the rock idiom. When he went over to England, Clapton and Townsend became friends essentially through a mutual fear that they would both become irrelevant in his wake.
Also, Adam Jones and Tool are outside the typical pop world, so they garner respect for challenging song structures and rhythms not typically found in a 3 minute pop song.
#7
Quote by larrytheguitar
By Adam Jones you mean the band Tool?

Well I think it all just comes down to what peoples tastes are. If you don't like the band, people say they're horrible instead of "not my type"


yes I meant Tool, but AJ in particular as he's the least virtuoistic of any of the members. But then it just happens to be coincidence that a whole guitar site generally finds Bullet For My Valentine, who have a mildly virtuoistic context to not be "it's type"?
#8
Also, a lot of musicians seem to equate integrity with 'doesn't sell enough records to buy a ****ing bagel.' So any new band that gains popularity is seen as an overnight sensation that never paid their dues. Which is usually bull****, most popular bands spend years as unknowns. Again, it's due to musicians having some kind of weird standard that only obscure, starving bands can possibly fit into.
#9
Quote by koslack
Also, a lot of musicians seem to equate integrity with 'doesn't sell enough records to buy a ****ing bagel.' So any new band that gains popularity is seen as an overnight sensation that never paid their dues. Which is usually bull****, most popular bands spend years as unknowns. Again, it's due to musicians having some kind of weird standard that only obscure, starving bands can possibly fit into.


well, Tool and Strapping Young Lad are hardly starving musicians....

and wasn't Jeff Buckley, one of the most critically-fellated musicians ever (though rightfully so) an overnight success?
#10
Jeff Buckley started playing when he was a child.

And again, Tool and Strapping Young Lad don't belong in the pop idiom. So they're exempt from the scrutiny.
#11
Metallica seem to have a bad reputation too, I've seen alot of people on here whine about how Metallica isn't 'real metal' and other stupid comments...

I guess if a band becomes really really popular they lose respect, and if they change their musical style people say they have sold out and then they lose respect, and in metal if a band doesn't sound like any of the most respected metal bands then people say that they aren't real metal and they lose respect

People are quite retarded

Edit: also, nu metal in general has a bad reputation
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#12
Quote by koslack
Jeff Buckley started playing when he was a child.

And again, Tool and Strapping Young Lad don't belong in the pop idiom. So they're exempt from the scrutiny.


so then where is line between what is inthe pop idiom and what isn't...i mean...it obviously isn't success, as Tool and SYL both have that...

^and yes people are retarded...most of the time...but we've gotta deal with cos the planet's full of em?

i forgot Pink Floyd, they are one of the most successfull AND revered bands of all time....so the success factor isn't equal to the disdain factor...
Last edited by Clownocaster#1 at Dec 22, 2008,
#13
Simple songwriting, catchy melodies, usually a pretty boy lead singer, but not necessarily. Literal definition is a 'Verse, Chorus, Verse' structure.
#14
Quote by Spooni_Shaq
also, nu metal in general has a bad reputation


forgive me, i only recently started learning about music instead of just listening; what is 'nu metal'?
#16
Quote by psychogel
forgive me, i only recently started learning about music instead of just listening; what is 'nu metal'?

Music like Korn, Limp Bizkit, I guess Marilyn Manson.
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#17
It often depends on people's perception of a band's sincerity.

For example, I like some music that sounds similar to Fall Out Boy, but I dislike them because I perceive their music to be empty pop garbage intended to sell lots of records.
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#18
what?
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#20
Quote by frankv
Verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, chorus (2x). Oh, how the general public loves it.


But that's how I right songs

Then again I don't use generic progressions, write lyrics about girls, or attempt to exploit my fans.
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#21
Quote by slaptasticdave
But that's how I right songs

Then again I don't use generic progressions, write lyrics about girls, or attempt to exploit my fans.


i think this may be a large part of it.
Bands with introspective lyrics (with the exception of Korn, Slipknot, Coldplay etc) seem a lot more sincere than those with lyrics based entirely upon a catchy title.
i.e. 'Wish You Were Here' > 'Shake It' lol.

To branch out a little, has anyone here ever listened to 'Got The Life' by Korn and felt that for once in their career they really hit on something and made a respectable song? That's how I'm feeling about it now....
#22
Quote by Clownocaster#1
i think this may be a large part of it.
Bands with introspective lyrics (with the exception of Korn, Slipknot, Coldplay etc) seem a lot more sincere than those with lyrics based entirely upon a catchy title.
i.e. 'Wish You Were Here' > 'Shake It' lol.

To branch out a little, has anyone here ever listened to 'Got The Life' by Korn and felt that for once in their career they really hit on something and made a respectable song? That's how I'm feeling about it now....


I think these bands come off badly because of their attitudes, not their music. Korn and Slipknot don't appeal stylistically to me, but I really like Coldplay, despite Chris Martin.
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#23
Quote by slaptasticdave
But that's how I right songs

Then again I don't use generic progressions, write lyrics about girls, or attempt to exploit my fans.



Verse, chorus, verse appeals to the 'general public' because it's effective. I hate musicians who look down on people who don't give a **** about technique and crazy song structures. It's some kind of stupid, elitist sentiment meant to make musicians feel like they are 'better' at being music fans, but has no basis in reality.

With that being said, what the hell do you mean 'attempt to exploit my fans?' This isn't the 3rd world, where your fans are helpless sweatshop workers. Music fans don't get exploited unless they want to be. I will never, ever trash a pop band for trying to sell records, because I have news for you: that's how you put food on the table. I admire a band that can write a mega-hit, because it's one hell of an accomplishment that can set a person up financially for life. You can call that selling out, I call that securing ones future, being able to send your kids to college, and I'll tell you what, considering we're in the worst worldwide financial crisis in 30 years, I'd rather sell out than have 200 kids around the world listen to my music and talk about how much integrity I have. Try eating integrity, buddy.
#24
sell-out.

no offense, ut i think you're doing music for the wrong reasons if you have those views.
and don't contradict slaptasticdave, he knows his ****.


and having Jeff Ament in his sig doesn't hurt either...
#25
Quote by Clownocaster#1
I am speaking of bands such as Nickelback, Coldplay, Oasis, Green Day, Tokio Hotel, Deicide, Fall Out Boy, Panic At The Disco, Linkin Park, Korn, Slipknot, Staind, Creed, Limp Bizkit....The general consensus amongst the guitar-playing community is that these bands suck like a Hoover.

Now it definitely isn't the music, which would be the obvious answer in a sane world, as all of these bands have very different sounds...

whilst some bands, such as Strapping Young Lad, Between The Buried And Me, Alice In Chains, Megadeth, Porcupine Tree, Opeth, Dream Theater, Eric Clapton, etc, are unconditionally loved by most of the guitar-playing community?

I guess to tl;dr....what creates a reputation for integrity?


Deicide? For one they don't really belong in this post, forum wise, but the only reason I could think of is them writing extremely generic death metal riffs. But they had some great musicians through their ranks, and made some good albums, so I"m not sure there.

For the rest, like someone already said, it's about the attitudes of said bands, and the ideology behind them. Partially it's about the music as well; Nickelback, for example, writes generic rock songs that follow a pretty basic template. One could almost say they're a pop band with a harder sound; whether someone likes it or not is one thing, but they're not breaking any new ground, and there is not much in the way of songwriting that's great. Taking Alice in Chains as a comparison, they write riffs that flow really well together, their songs are catchy but the lyrics are quirky at the same time, and arrangements/harmonies are intricate, despite the fact they aren't shoved in your face.

My main point would be that a lot of the bands in the first part of your post appeal to the lower common denominator, in other words they are easy to relate to, but there isn't much depth behind what they do, hence they're disliked.

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#26
Quote by Clownocaster#1
sell-out.

no offense, ut i think you're doing music for the wrong reasons if you have those views.
and don't contradict slaptasticdave, he knows his ****.


and having Jeff Ament in his sig doesn't hurt either...



Wait until you have to pay rent, and you'll see things my way.
#27
Quote by Clownocaster#1
sell-out.

no offense, ut i think you're doing music for the wrong reasons if you have those views.
and don't contradict slaptasticdave, he knows his ****.


and having Jeff Ament in his sig doesn't hurt either...


Thank you Clownie
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#28
I make music because it's my favourite thing in this world. And I'd like to make a living at it. Like I said before, you try and eat integrity. I'd much rather have a bunch of 13 year olds hate my guts while I live in a nice house and have a financially secure future than eat Kraft Dinner everyday for the rest of my life.
#29
Quote by koslack
I make music because it's my favourite thing in this world. And I'd like to make a living at it. Like I said before, you try and eat integrity. I'd much rather have a bunch of 13 year olds hate my guts while I live in a nice house and have a financially secure future than eat Kraft Dinner everyday for the rest of my life.


I ca see what you're getting at, though the first reason is more important and:

the second i have to change my music to please a collective, it will become my least favourite thing in the world. I think this, rather than elitism, is what integrity is about.

Passion b4 Money.
#30
Like I said, you don't have mouths to feed, you don't have a roof to put over your head, you don't have a retirement to think about. When you hit your 20s, priorities get realigned. Besides, I love pop music. I love jazz, I love metal, I love rock. It's only selling out if you decide to limit yourself. Me, I'll be happy playing pretty much any genre, as long as I get paid. That's the difference between a professional musician and a weekend warrior. Everyone wants to be a rock star, but somebody who loves playing music and genuinely wants a career realizes that it's a job. So you can call me a sell out all you want, at the end of the day I'll be the one doing what I love without having to work a day job.
#31
Quote by Clownocaster#1
I am speaking of bands such as Nickelback, Coldplay, Oasis, Green Day, Tokio Hotel, Deicide, Fall Out Boy, Panic At The Disco, Linkin Park, Korn, Slipknot, Staind, Credd, Limp Bizkit....The general consensus amongst the guitar-playing community is that these bands suck like a Hoover.

Now it definitely isn't the music, which would be the obvious answer in a sane world, as all of these bands have very different sounds...

whilst some bands, such as Strapping Young Lad, Between The Buried And Me, Alice In Chains, Megadeth, Porcupine Tree, Opeth, Dream Theater, Eric Clapton, etc, are unconditionally loved by most of the guitar-playing community?

I guess to tl;dr....what creates a reputation for integrity?


mostly the bands you mentioned are disliked for their lack of musical talent (perceived or otherwise) and their image they have. Fans are also important so if a band has irritating fans that is going to effect the band's popularity.

fall out boy for instance have very pop formulaic songs and their image revolves around the popularity of pete wentz amongst teenage girls. Neither of which are going to be popular with people on here.

All the other bands you mentioned have similar issues which cause them to be disliked.