#1
hey
is it possible to record and or film a live performance of your song and use that for copright if its accompanied by the sheet music, lyrics etc.?

and about how much does it cost for an unsigned artist to get copyright for a song in the UK?

iv already googled this and didnt get an answer.
#4
If you record it using TV that will be sufficient - every video will have a date stored in it already. It doesn't necessarily mean on paper but rather any recorded fashion that even an idea you thought of, provided it is distinct enough, can be copyright.
You don't need to pay for copyright but it affords you better protection. For example, just recording the song on video means that someone else can't copy that exactly song with the exact same words. They can, however, change the words, a bit.
¤´¨留話 請留話 請在我說完後
¸.•´¸.•´¨¸.•¤¨哭泣我不在這裡 我不在那裡請在嗶一聲之後留
(¸.•´ (¸.•´ .•´(´¸.•¤´`¤下自己的秘密請在嗶一聲之後對話筒沾自喜請在嗶一聲之後對空氣唉聲嘆氣


我不在這裡 我人在哪裡 我想到哪裡¤

請在嗶一聲之後留下有聲的話題¤

請在嗶一聲之後分擔感情的問題¤


¤¤¤

Last edited by Harmonius at Dec 22, 2008,
#5
The cheapest way to copyright something is to write it down (so the sheet music/lyrics in your case) and then post it to yourself. That way, it'll arrive at your door with a date on it which is stamped on it by the post office. That way, providing you never open the envelope, if it ever came to it, you'd be able to prove you wrote the song on/before the date on the envelope.
#6
Quote by grantjames
The cheapest way to copyright something is to write it down (so the sheet music/lyrics in your case) and then post it to yourself. That way, it'll arrive at your door with a date on it which is stamped on it by the post office. That way, providing you never open the envelope, if it ever came to it, you'd be able to prove you wrote the song on/before the date on the envelope.


Haha, that's pretty cool.
Quote by david9d5
You, my friend, win in epic proportions




Quote by sharpshootr55


Man... now I gotta clean my laptop screen.




Quote by ozzyismetal
^That has too much win for me to handle....
I think I need a glass of water and a nap.


#7
Quote by grantjames
The cheapest way to copyright something is to write it down (so the sheet music/lyrics in your case) and then post it to yourself. That way, it'll arrive at your door with a date on it which is stamped on it by the post office. That way, providing you never open the envelope, if it ever came to it, you'd be able to prove you wrote the song on/before the date on the envelope.


This, definatly the easiest way, and will stand up in court, so do this above all else.
My Gear
Guitars
Cort VX-2V
Basses
Stagg BC300
Amps
Marshall JCM900 4100 DR
Marshall 1965A
Hartke HA3500 Combo
#8
Quote by grantjames
The cheapest way to copyright something is to write it down (so the sheet music/lyrics in your case) and then post it to yourself. That way, it'll arrive at your door with a date on it which is stamped on it by the post office. That way, providing you never open the envelope, if it ever came to it, you'd be able to prove you wrote the song on/before the date on the envelope.


Can't stress that enough
You like it
#9
Quote by Harmonius
If you record it using TV that will be sufficient - every video will have a date stored in it already. It doesn't necessarily mean on paper but rather any recorded fashion that even an idea you thought of, provided it is distinct enough, can be copyright.
You don't need to pay for copyright but it affords you better protection. For example, just recording the song on video means that someone else can't copy that exactly song with the exact same words. They can, however, change the words, a bit.


Right-o.

And mailing it to yourself, I'd consider registered or certified mail, with a signature required receipt. postmarks can be faked with a machine purchased at any office supply store, provided you pay the post office too, in the same time frame.

Everything You Need to Know About the Music Business-Donald Passman is a good book, easy to read and understand. Mostly US law, a little bit of international stuff, but I doubt you Brits are very far from us on copyright law, you being the mother country and all
Bluegrass Rocks

CYNONYTE!

Quote by Basti95
People only come here to get sigged anyway


Quote by Basti95
Rats, I thought someone would sig it and make me famous...

it was going to be my big break

#10
Quote by millerdrr
Right-o.

And mailing it to yourself, I'd consider registered or certified mail, with a signature required receipt. postmarks can be faked with a machine purchased at any office supply store, provided you pay the post office too, in the same time frame.

Everything You Need to Know About the Music Business-Donald Passman is a good book, easy to read and understand. Mostly US law, a little bit of international stuff, but I doubt you Brits are very far from us on copyright law, you being the mother country and all


The thing is, mailing it to yourself makes no difference. It gives a timestamp, which every video recording does anyway. In fairness, you only mail something to yourself if you want to prove adverse possession in law and this is not the case - you haven't squatted and you're not applying to have your rights considered. Why complicate matters more than it needs to be? In adverse posession, you've squatted for 25 years in the same place and therefore if you mail something to yourself with your name, you've proved that you live there. This is the only circumstance in which you will be required to mail something to yourself. It does nothing for copyright.

Quote by grantjames
The cheapest way to copyright something is to write it down (so the sheet music/lyrics in your case) and then post it to yourself. That way, it'll arrive at your door with a date on it which is stamped on it by the post office. That way, providing you never open the envelope, if it ever came to it, you'd be able to prove you wrote the song on/before the date on the envelope.


No and no. Mailing it to yourself does jack all for copyright. It doesn't prove anything but that you've figured out how to send yourself a letter.
¤´¨留話 請留話 請在我說完後
¸.•´¸.•´¨¸.•¤¨哭泣我不在這裡 我不在那裡請在嗶一聲之後留
(¸.•´ (¸.•´ .•´(´¸.•¤´`¤下自己的秘密請在嗶一聲之後對話筒沾自喜請在嗶一聲之後對空氣唉聲嘆氣


我不在這裡 我人在哪裡 我想到哪裡¤

請在嗶一聲之後留下有聲的話題¤

請在嗶一聲之後分擔感情的問題¤


¤¤¤

Last edited by Harmonius at Dec 22, 2008,
#11
^right again



Ah, you edited. True, the act of mailing does nothing. But the paper inside does. At least in the US, the copyright is in place as soon as you place an idea in tangible form. Lyrics and Lead Sheet, audio or visual tape. Sort of like a birth certificate. It may take a day or two to get it, but that doesn't change your birthday.

I see you are a law student. Does it work that way just about everywhere, or have I just misunderstood?
Bluegrass Rocks

CYNONYTE!

Quote by Basti95
People only come here to get sigged anyway


Quote by Basti95
Rats, I thought someone would sig it and make me famous...

it was going to be my big break

Last edited by millerdrr at Dec 22, 2008,
#12
Quote by millerdrr
^right again



Ah, you edited. True, the act of mailing does nothing. But the paper inside does. At least in the US, the copyright is in place as soon as you place an idea in tangible form. Lyrics and Lead Sheet, audio or visual tape. Sort of like a birth certificate. It may take a day or two to get it, but that doesn't change your birthday.


If you've recorded the show on video that's it. No further action is necessary so even if you've given yourself a letter it still does nothing. Hell - why bother sending something to yourself when you can just write it and sign it yourself there and then with the date. It's logical that sending a letter to yourself is indifferent, albeit a stupid way to achieving something which is (a) already achieved, (b) unnecessarily in the sense of (a) and also incurring additional postage costs and time/effort.
It's universal, at least in Europe but I don't see why it wouldn't be the same all around the world. Copyright means recorded in any form which may be expressed that even an idea is a copyright, providing it's original and unique - this doesn't happen often but it can be done in rare cases. It does need not be tangible. The case, Fraser -v- Thames Television [1984] QB 44 (The Rock Follies case) illustrates this.

EDIT: Are you a law student too? I'll be heading to BPP Law School next year to complete my LPC.
¤´¨留話 請留話 請在我說完後
¸.•´¸.•´¨¸.•¤¨哭泣我不在這裡 我不在那裡請在嗶一聲之後留
(¸.•´ (¸.•´ .•´(´¸.•¤´`¤下自己的秘密請在嗶一聲之後對話筒沾自喜請在嗶一聲之後對空氣唉聲嘆氣


我不在這裡 我人在哪裡 我想到哪裡¤

請在嗶一聲之後留下有聲的話題¤

請在嗶一聲之後分擔感情的問題¤


¤¤¤

Last edited by Harmonius at Dec 22, 2008,
#13
bump for comment. still here Harmonius?
Bluegrass Rocks

CYNONYTE!

Quote by Basti95
People only come here to get sigged anyway


Quote by Basti95
Rats, I thought someone would sig it and make me famous...

it was going to be my big break

#14
Yep. Still here - hang on - trying to find the case
¤´¨留話 請留話 請在我說完後
¸.•´¸.•´¨¸.•¤¨哭泣我不在這裡 我不在那裡請在嗶一聲之後留
(¸.•´ (¸.•´ .•´(´¸.•¤´`¤下自己的秘密請在嗶一聲之後對話筒沾自喜請在嗶一聲之後對空氣唉聲嘆氣


我不在這裡 我人在哪裡 我想到哪裡¤

請在嗶一聲之後留下有聲的話題¤

請在嗶一聲之後分擔感情的問題¤


¤¤¤

#15
arghh...slow internet.

no, i'm not a law student, but it was what i wanted, and i put a tremendous amount of study in it. I followed an aviation career track at the behest of my father (big mistake). Terror attacks, fuel costs, poor management decisions threw a crimp on that path. Now married with children, its impossible to go back to school. The American Bar Association limits first and second year students to working no more than 20 hours per week, i think
Bluegrass Rocks

CYNONYTE!

Quote by Basti95
People only come here to get sigged anyway


Quote by Basti95
Rats, I thought someone would sig it and make me famous...

it was going to be my big break

#16
Here's the case: Fraser -v- Thames Television [1984] QB 44 (The Rock Follies case)

I'm sorry for your misguided career choice but it's not too late - at least in another jurisdiction. I understand, though, that it may be difficult to study when you have family commitments, really unlucky there. Well, there's nothing stopping you from achieving your dream when your kids grow up. I will take another degree when my kids get married - possibly a business degree or similar.
¤´¨留話 請留話 請在我說完後
¸.•´¸.•´¨¸.•¤¨哭泣我不在這裡 我不在那裡請在嗶一聲之後留
(¸.•´ (¸.•´ .•´(´¸.•¤´`¤下自己的秘密請在嗶一聲之後對話筒沾自喜請在嗶一聲之後對空氣唉聲嘆氣


我不在這裡 我人在哪裡 我想到哪裡¤

請在嗶一聲之後留下有聲的話題¤

請在嗶一聲之後分擔感情的問題¤


¤¤¤

#17
More of a budget issue, really. My children are three and four, and expenses are phenominal for daycare, nearly three hundred a week here. Already spent about 80 grand on a pilot's license that was last used in 2002. Yeah it sucks, but it was never really about the law license itself. I wanted a stepping stool into politics/social activism, and while i lack credibility of knowledge, i've had a little bit of success on passion and enthusiasm, as well as being an outsider, so its not been a complete wash. Besides, I'm making better money as an electrician than I would be as an airline pilot. Very few make the six figure salaries, only those employed by the top carriers. Just because the plane says Delta, United, or whoever, and the uniforms match, and the ticket, doesn't mean that's who you are flying on. Almost all domestic flights are subcontracted, and regional airlines cap out at about 40k per year.

LPC...is that like an LLM here? and thanks for the case reference
Bluegrass Rocks

CYNONYTE!

Quote by Basti95
People only come here to get sigged anyway


Quote by Basti95
Rats, I thought someone would sig it and make me famous...

it was going to be my big break

Last edited by millerdrr at Dec 22, 2008,
#18
Ah, unlucky on that too but $40K a year isn't so bad considering the economic climate at the moment. There are still some people making $20K in the UK (Minimum wage - £14K or so) so it's not all bad. You know what? I considered going into Pilot Training during my latter years because it sounds like something I would enjoy. My grandfather was an electrician but I don't think he ever deal with commercial things. Have you ever thought about training as a pilot yourself?

An LPC is the Legal Practice Court - the post graduate examination for Solicitors. The Bar is the the post graduate examination for barristers. I intend to qualify as a solicitor first and then through another route, qualify as a barrister as well through the Certificate of Advocacy route. An LLM is a Masters Degree which can either be done in your fourth year of university or by taking 2 extra modules on the LPC. I've thought about the Master's but I don't want to subejct myself to more pressure than I already am. The LPC is costing me £11,500 itself excluding accommodations/utilities bills/Living costs etc. That's about $23KUSD for a bit of paper with your name on it at the end .
¤´¨留話 請留話 請在我說完後
¸.•´¸.•´¨¸.•¤¨哭泣我不在這裡 我不在那裡請在嗶一聲之後留
(¸.•´ (¸.•´ .•´(´¸.•¤´`¤下自己的秘密請在嗶一聲之後對話筒沾自喜請在嗶一聲之後對空氣唉聲嘆氣


我不在這裡 我人在哪裡 我想到哪裡¤

請在嗶一聲之後留下有聲的話題¤

請在嗶一聲之後分擔感情的問題¤


¤¤¤

Last edited by Harmonius at Dec 22, 2008,
#19
Quote by Harmonius
Ah, unlucky on that too but $40K a year isn't so bad considering the economic climate at the moment. There are still some people making $20K in the UK (Minimum wage - £14K or so) so it's not all bad. You know what? I considered going into Pilot Training during my latter years because it sounds like something I would enjoy. My grandfather was an electrician but I don't think he ever deal with commercial things. Have you ever thought about training as a pilot yourself?


That's where the debt came from. I have a commercial pilot certificate here, i'm finished with flight training. It was fun, and not terribly difficult, though it is a lot of info to absorb. But, alas, what makes it rough is regional airlines cap out there. In other words, spend about 75k on flight training, whatever on tuition for college as its seperate, and your first job will likely only pay about 17k USD. Its a long road to the big bucks, and it takes no small amount of luck. the most recent promotion to captain by any of the top airlines, according to their unions, were all hired by them back in the late eighties. Sure would be a lot more fun than what i do now, but oh well. The good thing is the certificates never expire like a driver license, its good as long as my medical is good, but more importantly it might be the one thing from the US that has international respect! An FAA pilot certificate is honored pretty much throughout the world, with the obvious exception of areas where the US has hostile relations. There are conversion requirements to stay in another country for any length of time, but JAA covers all of Europe and their requirements are roughly the same as the US. I watch out for pilot openings on various web sites, so if somebody somewhere desperately needs me and the offer is good, I might be tempted to leave the electrical business.

EDIT So what you are working on now, its similar to a paralegal or notary public?
Bluegrass Rocks

CYNONYTE!

Quote by Basti95
People only come here to get sigged anyway


Quote by Basti95
Rats, I thought someone would sig it and make me famous...

it was going to be my big break

Last edited by millerdrr at Dec 22, 2008,
#20
Ouch! That's got to harsh and I can udnerstand the debt. You just can't shake it off and it keeps coming back to you with interest! I'd love to be a pilot one day but I feel that my health will lack me - I have intense hayfever and I know that's not good enough to fly a commercial airline. Perhaps there is room for leaway for International Air Freight rather than domestic flgihts? I hope you get lucky with your end career - you'll get the big break you deserve, just stick in there and there will be a job offering. It's harsh that you get paid so little while having to spend a great deal of effort and money on the qualifications.

In a similar respect, training as a lawyer is like that. The fees are immense and the competition for contracts are difficult. 1 in 5 gets places and it's not guaranteed. At the moment, I'm funding my way through Law School awaiting my application to be considered into BPP Law School - fingers crossed! It's either that or the College of Law but I really want to BPP. In the past I have worked as law firms and the courts doing a few things but at the moment, I need my place at BPP! I've been asked to do some stuff at the Crown Prosecution Service but I haven't got back yet. Also - my mentor at the House of Commons had spoken of a few jobs that are open but I've never considered them yet.
¤´¨留話 請留話 請在我說完後
¸.•´¸.•´¨¸.•¤¨哭泣我不在這裡 我不在那裡請在嗶一聲之後留
(¸.•´ (¸.•´ .•´(´¸.•¤´`¤下自己的秘密請在嗶一聲之後對話筒沾自喜請在嗶一聲之後對空氣唉聲嘆氣


我不在這裡 我人在哪裡 我想到哪裡¤

請在嗶一聲之後留下有聲的話題¤

請在嗶一聲之後分擔感情的問題¤


¤¤¤

#21
hayfever is okay over here. the restriction would be based on medication, few illnesses are disqualifing. insulin dependent diabetes, epilepsy, heart conditions. even visual no longer has an uncorrected minimum. you can do it! oh, and freight vs. passenger doesn't matter, over here Fedex, UPS, and others are considered Part 121 airlines, so licensing is the same. Not sure about your area though.

you are getting job offers with a government official. i have a pilot certificate. hmmmm....wanna trade?
Bluegrass Rocks

CYNONYTE!

Quote by Basti95
People only come here to get sigged anyway


Quote by Basti95
Rats, I thought someone would sig it and make me famous...

it was going to be my big break

#22
What's so bad about the posting the idea? With that it is stamped with a certain date by an official 3rd party - the post office. So it was definitely created on or before the date marked. If you record it on video there's no telling when you recorded it. If you're a hardcore hacker you could have edited the timestamp for the file on the camera.

EDIT: Someone said that's the same as just writing it down and dating it yourself...but dating it yourself doesn't prove that that was the actual date you wrote it, where as the post mark shows that a (trusted) 3rd party has marked that date. Granted you could bribe the post office to print a date on it, but that would be bad on the post office's part, and most probably wouldn't do that anyways. It'd be much easier to edit the timestamp on a video file than to get a post office to print a false date on an envelope.

EDIT (again, lol): And if we're talking about the UK here, the stamp on the envelope is done at a post office warehouse type thing, not in a post office branch, and those aren't the type of places where you can just walk in and ask someone to print an alternate date on something.
Last edited by grantjames at Dec 26, 2008,