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#1
Just a quick rant here
Seems 90% of guitarist today think that because they can play 400 songs it makes them a guitarist. No
To me, a guitarist is someone who can start playing and come up with an improvisational almost immediatly and have the working knowledge of the neck and music in general to have it hold a melody, a meter, and on the same scale.
If it takes you more than 10mins to come up with a riff or melody then you aren't good enough to call yourself a musician. When you sit down to play the guitar all you do is play the songs you memorized, that is playing the guitar.

/rant
#2
Someone who plays guitar is a guitarist. A guitarist is someone who plays guitar. What you're talking about is the difference between skilled and unskilled guitarists or guitar players
#4
Settle down, you'll give yourself a headache going on like that

*Reported*
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Quote by TOMMYB22
Dammit, beaten to it, and by someone with the same name

CURSE YOU TOMMYT!!!!!!!!!!!!


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I hate tommyt and the high horse which he rides upon
#5
.....so really if i can play music i'm not a musician??? i dont understand your logic behind this. but anyway i disagree a person who can play a guitar no matter how **** is still a guitarist though by play i mean just make some lovely sounds of it and not bash it like most little kids tend to do.
#6
WAIT! you used the word "musician"
so really you want to ask
"playing guitar vs being a guitarist vs being a musician"
because yes there is a difference and you should have thought about that.

YOU have angered me.
#7
There are many violinists or pianists or trumpet players who don't improvise or compose their own stuff, yet they are professional musicians. Why is guitar so different?
#8
I'd think by definition, all you have to do to be a guitarist is be able to play the guitar.

...what you've just described is what it takes to be a good guitarist.

(Oh, and you're a total twat for saying "If it takes you more than 10mins to come up with a riff or melody then you aren't good enough to call yourself a musician.")
#10
Quote by JELIFISH19
There are many violinists or pianists or trumpet players who don't improvise or compose their own stuff, yet they are professional musicians. Why is guitar so different?


+1
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#12
Quote by marko'd
WAIT! you used the word "musician"
so really you want to ask
"playing guitar vs being a guitarist vs being a musician"
because yes there is a difference and you should have thought about that.

YOU have angered me.

+1
there is a big difference between a musician and a guitar player or any other single instument player
#13
Quote by rawk1277
Just a quick rant here
Seems 90% of guitarist today think that because they can play 400 songs it makes them a guitarist. No
To me, a guitarist is someone who can start playing and come up with an improvisational almost immediatly and have the working knowledge of the neck and music in general to have it hold a melody, a meter, and on the same scale.
If it takes you more than 10mins to come up with a riff or melody then you aren't good enough to call yourself a musician. When you sit down to play the guitar all you do is play the songs you memorized, that is playing the guitar.

/rant


so those bands who take ages to write songs arent good enough to be where they are in there careers?

you sir are a dick
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#14
i know what you mean, but i don't exactly agree with every part of that. i draw the distinction more between those who play anything on the guitar at all or leave it collecting dust in a corner and use that as a reason to say they play. i think anyone who at least puts some sort of effort into trying to play once in a while could actually say they play though.
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#15
The TS perfectly illustrates the difference between a guitarist v a douche bag.

Being a guitarist or a musician for that matter is a personal thing, if you define yourself as a guitarist or a musician then you are.

However you may not be a GOOD musician or guitarist.
#16
Another thing I find strange about guitar is the connection of composing and playing. Composers compose songs for musicians, and sometimes musicians compose pieces for other musicians. This is in all types of music, from classical to pop, except when it comes to guitarists. It seems like to be a good guitarist, you have to play and and compose while great composers do not have to play, great singers do not write their own songs, and great players do not have to write. Everything is different in the guitar world. I would like to see a great guitar composer who writes complex pieces for multiple guitars and other instruments. That could change the face of guitar playing for the better.
#17
Quote by mickyd
so those bands who take ages to write songs arent good enough to be where they are in there careers?

you sir are a dick


Seems I struck a nerve. You guys are so cute how you take everything on the internet so personal.
I think someone even reported me. For what... I'm not sure. I never attacked anyone directly, it's not spam, I wasn't overly aggressive in my post.
I think he was just angry and that's gut reaction.
#18
No, your just a prat

- guitarist

noun
a musician who plays the guitar

Regardless of what you think, anyone who plays the guitar is a guitarist and a musician. They may not be good at it, but they still are. I can write 100 riffs a minute if I wanted, does that make me a good musician and guitarist? No. Stop being so full of yourself.
#19
Just a thought I had. It is AMAZING how personal some people will take this. To attack me, to try and get me banned. It's insane.
None of you can have an honest discussion, it's got to be a **** slinging competition no matter what is posted.
#21
Quote by rawk1277
Just a quick rant here
Seems 90% of guitarist today think that because they can play 400 songs it makes them a guitarist. No
To me, a guitarist is someone who can start playing and come up with an improvisational almost immediatly and have the working knowledge of the neck and music in general to have it hold a melody, a meter, and on the same scale.
If it takes you more than 10mins to come up with a riff or melody then you aren't good enough to call yourself a musician. When you sit down to play the guitar all you do is play the songs you memorized, that is playing the guitar.

/rant

Anyone else see a paradox there?
#22
Quote by JELIFISH19
There are many violinists or pianists or trumpet players who don't improvise or compose their own stuff, yet they are professional musicians. Why is guitar so different?

I hear you saying that some dudes are ranked 'professional' because they play something someone else wrote?
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#23
Quote by rawk1277
Just a thought I had. It is AMAZING how personal some people will take this. To attack me, to try and get me banned. It's insane.
None of you can have an honest discussion, it's got to be a **** slinging competition no matter what is posted.


I reported the thread, not you.

The reason I reported this thread is because it can only lead to conflict, when you post opinion as fact people will debate you and more often than not in this place debate will turn into a petty back and forth of insults.

Please gentlemen, don't feed the troll.
My Musical attempts

My youtube music channel

Quote by TOMMYB22
Dammit, beaten to it, and by someone with the same name

CURSE YOU TOMMYT!!!!!!!!!!!!


Quote by daeqwon10000
I hate tommyt and the high horse which he rides upon
#24
Quote by TheKermal
I hear you saying that some dudes are ranked 'professional' because they play something someone else wrote?


They are not called professionals because they play what someone else wrote. They're professionals because it's what they do for a living and they do it well. You can be an orchestra violinist as a career or you could play guitar for a cover band professionally. Professional singers usually aren't known for their writing talent, it's their voice. If you're job consists and completely depends on you playing an instrument, I think you are a professional musician.
#25
You said that even if people can play 400 songs on guitar, it doesn't make them a guitarist. What if they can play 400 songs that require unbelievable amounts of skill to play?

musician
noun
any person, whether professional or not, skilled in music

Wait a second...
guitarist
noun
a musician who plays the guitar

Am I the only one seeing that?
#26
Quote by JELIFISH19
Another thing I find strange about guitar is the connection of composing and playing. Composers compose songs for musicians, and sometimes musicians compose pieces for other musicians. This is in all types of music, from classical to pop, except when it comes to guitarists. It seems like to be a good guitarist, you have to play and and compose while great composers do not have to play, great singers do not write their own songs, and great players do not have to write. Everything is different in the guitar world. I would like to see a great guitar composer who writes complex pieces for multiple guitars and other instruments. That could change the face of guitar playing for the better.


Steve.... Vai....
#27
I'm thinking more along the lines of Mozart or Beethoven. 2 hour long guitar symphonies or something with different movements and stuff
#28
Quote by JELIFISH19
I'm thinking more along the lines of Mozart or Beethoven. Guitar symphonies or something

try his Visual Sound Theories DVD

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9IrWyZ0KZuk

that's him performing one of his better known songs with an orchestra but he also composed an albums worth of orchestra driven songs i.e. not guitar driven songs.
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#29
Quote by rawk1277
Just a quick rant here
Seems 90% of guitarist today think that because they can play 400 songs it makes them a guitarist. No
To me, a guitarist is someone who can start playing and come up with an improvisational almost immediatly and have the working knowledge of the neck and music in general to have it hold a melody, a meter, and on the same scale.
If it takes you more than 10mins to come up with a riff or melody then you aren't good enough to call yourself a musician. When you sit down to play the guitar all you do is play the songs you memorized, that is playing the guitar.

/rant



and a big F U right back at ya.

I'd like to argue quality over quantity here. I sure as hell don't always write things quickly. Hell some pieces I write take months. But that doesn't mean I shouldn't call myself a musician.
#30
I've gotta agree with the TC, the tunes he showed us that he's written pretty much raise the bar for musicianship.


Oh wait...
#31
Quote by Lemoninfluence
try his Visual Sound Theories DVD

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9IrWyZ0KZuk

that's him performing one of his better known songs with an orchestra but he also composed an albums worth of orchestra driven songs i.e. not guitar driven songs.



It's not bad, but it's very simple. It sounds like he wrote it on the guitar and then just transcribed it to other instruments. I'm not hating on Vai at all. There are plenty of artist who incorporate an orchestra into their works, but many of them do not utilize what they have available. Just listen to the 1st minute of Beethoven's symphony #5. Now if someone would compose something even half as goodd as that minute, we would've gone far
#32
Quote by JELIFISH19
It's not bad, but it's very simple. It sounds like he wrote it on the guitar and then just transcribed it to other instruments.

he did. That was one of his hits. It was originally just for guitar but he decided to do a performance with an orchestra.

It was the other part of the DVD i was talking about. the one where he composes for the entire orchestra and sets out to do so. also, good is a subjective term.

while you may not like it, he CAN and does do it.
Rhythm in Jump. Dancing Close to You.

Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#33
Quote by rawk1277
Just a quick rant here
Seems 90% of guitarist today think that because they can play 400 songs it makes them a guitarist. No
To me, a guitarist is someone who can start playing and come up with an improvisational almost immediatly and have the working knowledge of the neck and music in general to have it hold a melody, a meter, and on the same scale.
If it takes you more than 10mins to come up with a riff or melody then you aren't good enough to call yourself a musician. When you sit down to play the guitar all you do is play the songs you memorized, that is playing the guitar.
/rant


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#34
Firstly I think playing the guitar, and being a guitarist, are synonymous...(the same). What you've said it means to you is a fairly narrow view, and unique to you.

I do agree that ~80% of guitar players don't 'take it to the next level' and really try and master the fretboard, understand theory, better their technique, develop great functional harmony, regularly improvise etc

But taking more than 10mins to come up with a riff/melody is valid because some are more complex than others, and experimenting with different sounds and fretboard positions, or in the case of 2 guitars harmonising or synchronising it will take more than 10mins...

Don't take the passion out of music if you want it to mean anything to you..and don't start stupid threads like this that have the potential to put beginners off - everyone enjoys it at their own level, and i think you'll come to see what i mean. No one cares what your definition of a 'guitarist' is, it's still fun for them, so live n let live.

After all, rhythm guitarists gotta come from somewhere =P
Last edited by yenners at Dec 22, 2008,
#35
a musician plays music, while a guitarist plays guitar

most of you are both, it goes back to the classical guitar being played by a "guitarist" and of a certain composers music(ian)
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#36
Quote by Jaksar
The TS perfectly illustrates the difference between a guitarist v a douche bag.

Being a guitarist or a musician for that matter is a personal thing, if you define yourself as a guitarist or a musician then you are.

However you may not be a GOOD musician or guitarist.

good point sir. there are plenty of guitarist who someone would consider "bad." skill is relevant to your skills. if you arent very good anyone that is decent could pick up the axe and blow your mind. if your very good and have a lot of backgroun with music, you could still suck just because it takes you "ten mintues" to write a riff. if i was the **** and it took me 10 mins to write a riff, and it actually became a hit, why the **** would it matter if it took me 10 mins or 10 seconds to write? that just means i wont be able to hop on stage and just improvise a solo off the top of my head and wow everyone. but i could still go on stage and remember everything im going to do, and no one would know the difference.

stop bitching because people choose to learn things instead of others. if im happy just playing other peoples songs and i dont care to learn a lick of theory, then i can do just that and still be "good." i just wont ever be able to write my own ****.
#37
Quote by JELIFISH19
It's not bad, but it's very simple. It sounds like he wrote it on the guitar and then just transcribed it to other instruments. I'm not hating on Vai at all. There are plenty of artist who incorporate an orchestra into their works, but many of them do not utilize what they have available. Just listen to the 1st minute of Beethoven's symphony #5. Now if someone would compose something even half as goodd as that minute, we would've gone far


Beethoven had a lot of critics in his day. He eventually died penniless with almost zero fans of his work.

It wasn't until after his death that people began to appreciate his work.
#38
Life is too short to worry about this crap.

Who.

Cares.
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#39
I could turn this around on you and say that if you don't make your the majority of your living solely by playing music, if you don't play 100+ gigs a year, and if you have never cut an EP then you are not a real musician.

The above statement applies to me, but I know there are people sitting in their bedrooms (and on this forum) who could shred all over me. Can I write a catchier song? Probably. Can I sweep pick an Emin arpeggio at 220 bpm? Hell no. There are varying degrees of musicianship and the sooner you recognize this, the better off you will be. The point is that they are still musicians.
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