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#1
so ive heard before that Eb is the hardest key to play in..


whats that supposed to mean?

was the person just wrong? BSin me?

maybe open position... but... ?


can anyone help?
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#3
Quote by ChucklesMginty
Start the Am pentatonic shape in Eb (fret 11) your fine.


No you aren't?

Try the eight fret.
"And everybody knows that you live forever
Ah, when you've done a line or two"
#4
Quote by ChucklesMginty
Start the Am pentatonic shape in Eb (fret 11) your fine.

thats really confusing advise, you should edit that just so you don't confuse anyone.
#5
for real...


lol which shape is the Am pentatonic shape?


thats silly.


ok. i thought i was right. i know my positions, so im good.


Thanks!!
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#7
Quote by Early Cuyler
for real...


lol which shape is the Am pentatonic shape?


thats silly.


ok. i thought i was right. i know my positions, so im good.


Thanks!!

you're off to a good start, but you aren't "good" yet.

You should learn the names of the notes in each key, that way you can play the scales all over the fretboard and not be stuck in a box or pattern
#8
On the guitars, keys are of pretty much equal difficulty. The only difference is the amount of open chords you can play in each key.


Ask a saxophon player whether he'd prefer E major or Bb major. They definitely have harder and easier keys.
#9
A guitar in standard tuning isn't really adapted for the key of Eb, since the low E string is a semitone higher in pitch. I wouldn't say that it's harder though. You can't fret that really low base note, but it's not harder to play in one key than in another. The dots/diamonds/inlays might be differently aligned, but that's not really a problem. Depends entirely on how you define "hard".

Of course, you could tune your guitar down a half step and then you'd get that low note. That's probably not what he meant, though.

Edit: Whoops. Lots of replies appeared while I was typing!
#10
It's harder than other keys in standard tuning, but if you downtune half a step it's just the notes that would be in E. E-asy.
#12
Standard tuning is supposed to be the easiest to play overall...the most economical.
I bet Charlie Brown's teacher's name was Mrs.Hammett
#13
Quote by Peaceful Rocker
you're off to a good start, but you aren't "good" yet.

You should learn the names of the notes in each key, that way you can play the scales all over the fretboard and not be stuck in a box or pattern



i can..

i can connect all of them.. i have em in chord shapes though.


E (barre with root on 6string) across two octaves

C (open C position)... and the connection to E..

A (root on 5string) .. and its connection to C

A (root on 3string) .. and its connections to the other A and E.


in major.. all minors. and both pent.

and i know what to add for the bebop and blues scales/notes.

and i also know how the modes work as well as their order.


but yeah i do need to learn note names instead of patterns and links and intervals.


lol.. and im not a one-way picker .. and i can fingerpick pretty well (only a year under my belt.. out of 4 total)


... i was also a music major
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#14
All instruments have certain keys that their players generally feel most comfortable in. For example look at violin concertos and observe the prevalence of the keys D and A and in case of brass, Eb Bb etc
The guitar is no exception, E, A and D probably considered most "natural" keys.
The reason is simple: the availability of open bass strings for utilisation as roots of tonic and dominant chords . This generalisation holds more strongly for music (classically) arranged for solo guitar than for much of the music played on electric instruments with plectrum techniques.
#15
i dont see how its harder.

there are just some notes in a lower register you cant play. (in standard that is)


thats it.


all the notes are there.
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#16
Quote by ChucklesMginty
Well if it's minor, 12th fret is E.. So 11th fret would be Eb.



major minor pent.

either way Eb is 11, and 6, and 13, and 8, and 4... and 11


lol only above 12..

see im not that bad off
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#17
No..

We're talking about Eb, not Ebminor. So you would want to play the minor pentatonic scale at the 8th fret (Cminor).
#18
I agree that some keys are way easier to play in than others. The ability to use open strings and first position chords takes a lot of the thinking out of the game, and means less barring. Yeah, I'd say WAY easier.

Sure, I can play in literally any key, but given a choice, I'll take E over Eb, for instance, any day.... unless I'm just trying to muck with someone and make their life difficult for the sake of sport.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#20
I have a question about keys. My friend is trying to learn theory stuff, and he read somewhere how different keys have different feels to them (depressing, happy, scary). I'm not a big theory person, so is that true? What are the actual differences in keys? Because I mean, you can do any scale you want in any key you want, and clearly the scale you're in dictates the feel of the music much more directly.
We're only strays.
#21
Quote by Martyr's Prayer
I have a question about keys. My friend is trying to learn theory stuff, and he read somewhere how different keys have different feels to them (depressing, happy, scary). I'm not a big theory person, so is that true? What are the actual differences in keys? Because I mean, you can do any scale you want in any key you want, and clearly the scale you're in dictates the feel of the music much more directly.

Well minor for the most part conveys a more somber mood, while major generally gives a "happier" tone. But as for individual keys sounding different, it's all preference. Some people say D minor is the saddest of all keys, but it really depends on your own personal preference.

NOTE: This is just about common western music.
#22
Quote by JakdOnCrack
Well minor for the most part conveys a more somber mood, while major generally gives a "happier" tone. But as for individual keys sounding different, it's all preference. Some people say D minor is the saddest of all keys, but it really depends on your own personal preference.

NOTE: This is just about common western music.


I see. Yeah, D was the key that the guy used in Spinal Tap for his song "Lick My Love Pump" lol.
We're only strays.
#23
Eb is the hardest key. The root chord is just difficult. There's really only one practical way to voice it
#24
Quote by Martyr's Prayer
I have a question about keys. My friend is trying to learn theory stuff, and he read somewhere how different keys have different feels to them (depressing, happy, scary). I'm not a big theory person, so is that true? What are the actual differences in keys? Because I mean, you can do any scale you want in any key you want, and clearly the scale you're in dictates the feel of the music much more directly.

Debatable in terms of pitch. There may be truth in sense that some keys, due to relative technical ease or difficulty on certain instruments or voice instill a degree of tension into the music during performance. I think this to be quite a strong argument.
Much weaker, IMO, is the argument that this tension is related to the actual pitch of the keys. You must remember that pitch is arbitrary and wasn't standardised until the twentieth century.
Of course, different modes and genus will have different "feel"s, to use your expression.
Last edited by R.Christie at Dec 23, 2008,
#26
Quote by Declan87
Eb is the hardest key. The root chord is just difficult. There's really only one practical way to voice it



wrong.
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It's just me and Doris here ;_;



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#27
Quote by JakdOnCrack
Well minor for the most part conveys a more somber mood, while major generally gives a "happier" tone. But as for individual keys sounding different, it's all preference. Some people say D minor is the saddest of all keys, but it really depends on your own personal preference.

NOTE: This is just about common western music.


Most of the time tempo, or velocity in which you play the notes has much more to do with it, or even other aspects of the song...

For instance, you could say that Fur Elise is "sad", but compare these two:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBUMvnt5_Zc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_0Xza-kI2E&feature=related (just the beginning, ignore the rest, unless you like it)
#28
Quote by Early Cuyler
wrong.

Yes of course you're right. Not sure why I posted that, I was rather drunk last night.

I think what I meant was that all the Eb chord voicings are slightly more awkward than any other major chord, and that there's no open chords.
#29
Quote by Declan87
Yes of course you're right. Not sure why I posted that, I was rather drunk last night.

I think what I meant was that all the Eb chord voicings are slightly more awkward than any other major chord, and that there's no open chords.


Well, you can play Gm, Dm, and those can be played in open position (with open strings)?

The keys that don't have open chords (because they have no open strings) are Db major, Gb major, Cb major, and C# major (and maybe F# if you say B can't be played as an open chord)..
And their relative minor keys too...
#30
I have a question about keys. My friend is trying to learn theory stuff, and he read somewhere how different keys have different feels to them (depressing, happy, scary). I'm not a big theory person, so is that true? What are the actual differences in keys? Because I mean, you can do any scale you want in any key you want, and clearly the scale you're in dictates the feel of the music much more directly.


Since we use the equal tempered pitch, the uniqueness of the key is destroyed. In a well-tempered system that unique character is preserved while still allowing full use of each key.

Most major composers do associate a certain character with a certain key. My favorite example is Beethoven and his relation with C minor. All his works in that key have the same kind of grand melodrama. (5th symphony, 3rd piano concerto, op 111 piano sonata for some popular examples)
#31
I reality, no key is "harder" to play in than any other key.

However, Eb would be a difficult key for beginning guitarists to play in because none of the chords in Eb can be payed as simple open chords. Yes, you could downtune to Eb standard, but that would take time
#32
So what you're saying, then, is that keys where chords can be played as simple, open chords are easier for beginning guitarists to play in.

As an advanced guitarist who can play in literally any key, I *still* find those same keys easier to play in than, say, Eb.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#33
Quote by Aetius
No..

We're talking about Eb, not Ebminor. So you would want to play the minor pentatonic scale at the 8th fret (Cminor).


I dont get this... why would you play c minor pentatonic? wouldnt you play D# minor pentatonic? (11th fret low E string?)

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#34
I play in C standard so Eb major is the same as G major in e standard so its pretty easy
....but the hardest key would probably be Gb
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#36
Quote by Erc
Since we use the equal tempered pitch, the uniqueness of the key is destroyed. In a well-tempered system that unique character is preserved while still allowing full use of each key.

Most major composers do associate a certain character with a certain key. My favorite example is Beethoven and his relation with C minor. All his works in that key have the same kind of grand melodrama. (5th symphony, 3rd piano concerto, op 111 piano sonata for some popular examples)

A lot of composers thought the key Eb was spiritual because it has three flats symbolising the holyn trinity. This is one reason why some composers wrote in Eb quite a lot.

Gb/F# is the hardest key to read because you have to remember 6 flats/sharps all the time.

PS. I don't celebrate christmas because I'm buddhist, what's everyone else's excuses?
#39
Quote by gonzaw
Most of the time tempo, or velocity in which you play the notes has much more to do with it, or even other aspects of the song...

For instance, you could say that Fur Elise is "sad", but compare these two:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBUMvnt5_Zc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_0Xza-kI2E&feature=related (just the beginning, ignore the rest, unless you like it)

True, but what I was trying to express is that for common, practical purposes, minor = sadder and major = happier.

Yes, I know there is MUCH more than that. Exceptions abound as well. But for simplicity's sake, what I said is still true.
#40
Most rock and metal songs/riffs are not in E flat, so it's not surprising that guitarists would consider E flat to be a difficult key.

What you are familiar with = easier to play than what you are not familiar with.

Spend enough time in Eb, and it's no longer a difficult key. it's as simple as that.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Dec 25, 2008,
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