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#1
I saw one of these threads done wrong and without as broad of a scope. Here is a list of products for musicians of all types to avoid just because the general consensus is the products just suck.

MARSHALL MG AMPS
These amps are not real marshall amps, these sound nothing like marshall amps. The distortion sounds thin and strained and you will hate the amp's tone from the first day you buy it. Marshall makes good tube amps, however slapping the marshall brand on their SS amps which suck to lure newbs to buy them is poor business practice.


BEHRINGER
Here is a company to avoid as a general rule. Their maketing schemes are shady, their products tend to be mislabeled, and everything they makes tends to break and when it is working it sounds so bad you want to break it. Don't sink your money into this you will regret it.


LOW END GIBSONS
Gibson is a huge company that makes hundreds of guitars a day. Their low end line is made the same exact way as how fender makes their squire guitars. Their quality controls are slipping and anyone in the guitar community knows that. Now, if you meet someone with a Les Paul studio he probably convinced himself that it sounds like sweet honey because he just spend 1200 on the guitar, but unless you're willing to spend some serious cash, go with an epiphone for now. There are some great sounding epiphone guitars out now that you will be more than pleased with.


HI WATTAGE TUBE AMP HEADS
It may sound cool to tell your friends to check out my new 100w tube amp head, but there is something about tube amps that makes more watts=bad. You have to crank tube amps, the higher you crank them the better they sound. (in other words, with the master volume at 1, you might as well have a vox valvtronix) I own a 15w combo amp and I gig with it, I jam with it, I can get over any 100w SS or any drum kit.(the drum kit is as loud as you should be playing anyway) and when you do gig you mic the amp. So, having a smaller amp makes transport easier and one side isn't hit with a wall of deafing sound while the other side cant hear you. Max you should have is 30w. Unless you want to drop $300 on an attenuator(I reccomend the hot plate http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/THD-Hot-Plate-Attenuator?sku=481283 )
This suggestion is for those with 1 or 2 amps or if this is your first tube amp. If you know what you're doing and know what 100w is capable of, then go for it. But make sure, my suggestion, crank the 100w to max, and see if you really need something that loud.

DIGI TECH PEDALS
Except for 3-4, digitech makes aweful pedals. They are known to malfunction and break and don't sound all that great. The only good digitech pedals I've seen is the looper, the whammy(which is only mediocre compared to others), the bad monkey and the harmony man. But there are still better versions of those out there for around the same price

CHEAP METAL PEDALS
Here is a fact, there isn't a single respectable metal band that actually uses those pedals. They use high gain amps, not those cheap pedals. If your amp doesn't have enough distortion though, an acceptable substitute would be the metal muff, Krank Distortus, Duncan SFX-04 Mayhem, Krank Krankshaft, or T rex bloody Mary

OVERDRIVE PEDALS WITH SOLID STATE AMPS
A distortion pedal will distort your sound as is, so it will work on either a SS or a tube amp. An overdrive however is designed to push lots of power all at once though the jack and beef up your amps natural distortion plus add a little flavor of it's own. In other words, if you buy and overdrive with a SS amp, you are gonna get a weak distortion if anything at all.

EMG PICKUPS
People seem to think that they are THE active pickup. Anyone who knows about tone will tell you that they aren't the greatest there is when compared with other active pickups. Most will tell you that they sound very thin and very bland. Duncan makes a very good active pickup called the livewire which you can get for close to the same price but will give you a fuller sound. You also may consider not jumping straight to active since active pickups don't do cleans all that well. Metal bands today use active pickups more because it's a fad than a necessity. You will get close to the same result from a well picked non-active high output pickup. Look at slayer or Pantera/damage plan. To name a few, but there are other examples, they never used active pickups and pleased fans for decades while these guys using EMG's are falling out of style left and right.

LINE 6 SPIDER AMPS
While not the worst amps on the market today, there are better ones, and a lot of people seem to loath them, and people don't spend so much time hating something for no reason. There are also quite a few substituted for the exact same price. For dirt cheap I suggest the roland cube, hands down one of the best all SS amps on the market. I have a micro cube and to this day I use it for practice when doing scale and stuff or when I need to practice. Tone is great. Also for around the price of the medium wattages you can get a peavey vypyr or vox valvtronix. One of the hybrid amps, not true tube, but will sound better than the line 6 and all the other SS amps out there. Or if you want to go this option, you have a selection of 6 different 5w all tube amps for under $200(these will be about as loud as a 30-50w SS) or 14 all tube amps for under $500 anywhere from 15w up to 60w.
this list is a work in progress, if there is something someone would like me to add or strong disagrees with me on, state why and I will put it up/take it down. But please, remain mature, I am simply trying to help people.
Last edited by rawk1277 at Dec 27, 2008,
#2
this is a VERY good idea for a thread, and you've made a good start, but i think you need to be more objective; a lot of the stuff you've listed so far could arguably be seen as relatively good gear; some people love MG's for their light weight and "crushing" overdrive and high wattage tube amps are surely an extremely good thing if you're playing a massive gig?

i could list more, but i just think you should bear in mind that you should balance your arguments a bit.
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Last edited by jeowy at Dec 27, 2008,
#3
I would add line 6 spiders because most hate them and also some people might disagree with me but i would put the marshall Jcm2000's, i have one and i absolutly hate the lead channel, not because its not my style just because its really fizzy and crap.
#4
I agree...generally but these two:
Quote by rawk1277

HYBRID AMPS
These amps have a tube in the preamp section but a SS in the power amp section. Tube tone comes from the power amp section, so really, you just bought a really expensive SS amp. There are tube amps that can be bought cheap, even new ones. Look into those, just because it has tubes doesn't make it true tube.

HI WATTAGE TUBE AMP HEADS
It may sound cool to tell your friends to check out my new 100w tube amp head, but there is something about tube amps that makes more watts=bad. You have to crank tube amps, the higher you crank them the better they sound. (in other words, with the master volume at 1, you might as well have a vox valvtronix) I own a 15w combo amp and I gig with it, I jam with it, I can get over any 100w SS or any drum kit.(the drum kit is as loud as you should be playing anyway) and when you do gig you mic the amp. So, having a smaller amp makes transport easier and one side isn't hit with a wall of deafing sound while the other side cant hear you. Max you should have is 30w. Unless you want to drop $300 on an attenuator(I reccomend the hot plate http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/THD-Hot-Plate-Attenuator?sku=481283


are really...hmm how to word it..
Hybrid amps - Vox Valvetronix & Peavey Vypr - two amps which are excellent value for money and great practice amps.
High wattage valve amps - one word: headroom.
if you need clean headroom (which is what high wattage valve amps are usually bought for) and a valve amp, you NEED high wattage.

And where are the Line 6 Spiders seriously?
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#5
The Digitech Bad Monkey is a great cheap OD.
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#6
i beg to differ abt avoiding the les paul studio. i own a les paul studio that plays and feels brilliant NOT because it has "gibson" slapped on its headstock. the qc of gibson might have gone down over the years but i've noticed that the flaws always happen to be on the standards.

i might have been lucky in finding a good piece. but the thing is i had enough money to purchase a standard, but i chose the studio because to me, it felt good in my hands.

and imo. most gibsons are overpriced. so for 1.2k, the les paul studio to me is a very reasonable price to pay for a les paul.
#8
I think we should add some sort of objectivity to this with users, meaning items should only be on the list if they have a known flaw, like not working or something, instead of people just saying "That amp's crappy!"
breaking hearts
&
breaking guitars
#9
Great idea. Some tips:

- If you say you should avoid something, you should provide a clear and detailed list WHY. For example, you said you should avoid Digitech products, but not why. Make a short list of their product and what's wrong with each of them, if you want to sound convincing!
- Maybe add good alternatives? For example, as an alternative for the MGs or Spiders, I'd suggest a Roland Cube...
- For the love of God, add Line 6 Spiders.

Cheers
#10
Quote by DudeLove
yeah and u should also add line 6 products as one to avoid. especially the spiders

Jump off the bandwagon.
Quote by Pookie6
Yngwi3, You win this whole monstrosity of a thread.

Quote by uk.mace
For the best tingle, use Original Source mint. That shit feels amazing on your balls.


Godfather of The Diezel Mafia
#11
Quote by ZeGuitarist
Great idea. Some tips:

- If you say you should avoid something, you should provide a clear and detailed list WHY. For example, you said you should avoid Digitech products, but not why. Make a short list of their product and what's wrong with each of them, if you want to sound convincing!
- Maybe add good alternatives? For example, as an alternative for the MGs or Spiders, I'd suggest a Roland Cube...
- For the love of God, add Line 6 Spiders.

Cheers


For a beginner a spider isn't that bad of an amp. It has several distortion types, a couple effects, and good cleans. I started out with a spider then of course moved on, but I can't say I put it in the same category as the marshall MG.
#12
Add Behringer to the list!
Gear!:

Epiphone G400
Marshall JCM 800 4211 Combo
Karmer Forum III
Schecter Stiletto Deluxe 5
Holden Graphic something bass amp? (eh it's 300 watts!)
Some sort of 1x15 cab.
#13
Quote by rawk1277
For a beginner a spider isn't that bad of an amp. It has several distortion types, a couple effects, and good cleans. I started out with a spider then of course moved on, but I can't say I put it in the same category as the marshall MG.
It's not, but for the same price (often for less money actually) you can get a superior Roland Cube or Vox Valvetronix..
Quote by Pookie6
Yngwi3, You win this whole monstrosity of a thread.

Quote by uk.mace
For the best tingle, use Original Source mint. That shit feels amazing on your balls.


Godfather of The Diezel Mafia
#14
Quote by Yngwi3
Jump off the bandwagon.



howz about you jump on it? :P

i also agree with the line 6 spider thing. my mate hyped his up so much i was expecting a beast, but it turned out i found it crap. theres just better things you can buy.
My Rig:
American Standard Telecaster
Fender Starcaster
Sp. Edition Jack Daniels Strat (Modded)
Vox AC15CC1


Stuff I've Built:
Telecaster Deluxe
Telecaster Junior
Pedalboard (from a shelf )
the odd pedal
#15
Quote by Kevy Absolution
I think we should add some sort of objectivity to this with users, meaning items should only be on the list if they have a known flaw, like not working or something, instead of people just saying "That amp's crappy!"


The stuff on that list will be agreed upon by a lot of users, anyone who has owned those products will tell you the same thing.
I jumped the gun with the hybrid amps, I was trying to get across that they werent tube and I made them sound like bad amps, I think I rectified that.
This isn't a suggestion thread, it's stuff to avoid.
#17
I agree to most of this. Although, both Digitech pedals and EMG pickups are really good.
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#18
Quote by Iliketrucks
Add Behringer to the list!


I need more info on these, I have never tried one. Other than "they suck balls." Just a quick summary on why they should be avoided.
#19
danelectro metal pedal


sounds like something being killed but not in a good distortion way


also digitech rp200


perfect if you want to make a scifi movie


listentoable music however....
Lady Gaga if you're out there, i don't care if you have a penis or not, i will marry you
#20
Quote by DudeLove
yeah and u should also add line 6 products as one to avoid. especially the spiders


line 6 make some great products.. don't generalize. DL-4, tonport, flextones and PODs are great.


Agree with on the spiders though.
Youtube covers

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#21
Quote by Night_Lights
line 6 make some great products.. don't generalize. DL-4, tonport, flextones and PODs are great.


Agree with on the spiders though.


u're right. my bad. i was only referring to the spider. not the whole of line6.
#22
Quote by Robbo1422
howz about you jump on it? :P...

You said "Line 6 products" and trust me, they have a lot of quality stuff.

Variax
Multieffect processors (pod x3 live, xt, pro, toneport, pocket pod)
Effects (dl4, m13, echo park delay)
Amps (Vetta II, HD)
Originally Posted by evening_crow
Quoting yourself is cool.


WARNING: I kill threads.
Last edited by evening_crow at Dec 27, 2008,
#23
if you're gonna add behringer, the problem is essentially the same as other cheap, low-quality pedals, with the addition of the fact that most of their main line are ****ty copies of boss or digitech pedals, and their product information / marketting tends to be VERY shady; they list their amps based on peak wattage instead of RMS, so you can go out and buy a "300W behringer bass amp" with an RMS of about 50W
Quote by mr.happyman
so she took off my pants and was gonna give me dome (head). fukk yeah, free dome (head) (i'm used to hiring prostitutes).as she inched her head closer to my pen0r, she pulled her hand outta nowhere and sandpapered my mini mr.happyman!
#24
Good idea, but you kind of jumped the bandwagon, alot. EMG's are quite good, i'm a fan so why should they be avoided.
Hybrid amps are fine, nothing wrong with them imo.
High watt tube amps, pff. I wouldn't trade my mesa for the world atm.
Sweet.
#25
Quote by BC_Warlock
Good idea, but you kind of jumped the bandwagon, alot. EMG's are quite good, i'm a fan so why should they be avoided.
Hybrid amps are fine, nothing wrong with them imo.
High watt tube amps, pff. I wouldn't trade my mesa for the world atm.


Same reason users are saying spiders should be avoided, there are better products for the same price. Why spend money on something sub par when you can get something better for the same price?
The section about hybrid amps was to tell them "these don't sound like tube amps, they sound like really good SS amps. That is all they will ever sound like."
#26
can I get a sticky or something? This is actually and will cut down on a lot of questions.
#27
Im not sure if you should ask for a sticky. Let the mods decide.

Yes there are better amps for the price of a spider but they aren't massively terrible amps. They are good practice amps non the less.

But you made some good points in your first post.
Sweet.
#28
this thread is wank, could you be anymore patronizing?

1) everyone knows about marshall MGs ffs

2) behringer make cheap and cheerful pedals and their amps are poor but their microphones and mixers are excellent value

3) i know someone with a "low end" gibson, and it blows any epiphone i've ever played out of the water. there is a difference and anyone who says other wise is in denial. the studio QC is sketchy but at most a pro setup will give you a fine instrument

4) hybrid amps sound notiebly better IMO the vox AD series is awesome for home practise

5) a crapload of brilliant amps are only available in 100w head form. and what if you need perfect cleans but you have to gig a concert hall unmic'd?

6) digitech pedals are all practically indestructable, thats a fact. the sound from most of them is adequate and theyre aimed at beginners mainly anyway.

7) oh look, a metal muff bandwagonner

8) pickups are entirely down to taste. EMG cleans are ok if employed correctly

9) cubes are shite

10) the first thread was fine and the TS didnt get his own opinion confused with fact
Get off this damn forum and play your damn guitar.
#29
There's a misconception with the Digitech section.

Those pedals are built like tanks. Their constuction is crazy strong.

About the sound issues......

The distortion pedals that Digitech makes are prone to not sounding good and breaking. Their overdrives, especially the Hardwire series, are pretty solid. However, once you move out of the overdrives and into the distortion (from the blues to the metal ones), that's where you hit trouble.

Their sound (in other effect types) is purely objective. I happen to love how their flangers and phasers sound. This thread should not be about objective problems, but real problems.

Quote by stevo_epi_SG_wo
this thread is wank, could you be anymore patronizing?

1) everyone knows about marshall MGs ffs

2) behringer make cheap and cheerful pedals and their amps are poor but their microphones and mixers are excellent value

3) i know someone with a "low end" gibson, and it blows any epiphone i've ever played out of the water. there is a difference and anyone who says other wise is in denial. the studio QC is sketchy but at most a pro setup will give you a fine instrument

4) hybrid amps sound notiebly better IMO the vox AD series is awesome for home practise

5) a crapload of brilliant amps are only available in 100w head form. and what if you need perfect cleans but you have to gig a concert hall unmic'd?

6) digitech pedals are all practically indestructable, thats a fact. the sound from most of them is adequate and theyre aimed at beginners mainly anyway.

7) oh look, a metal muff bandwagonner

8) pickups are entirely down to taste. EMG cleans are ok if employed correctly

9) cubes are shite

10) the first thread was fine and the TS didnt get his own opinion confused with fact


DAMNIT! Beat me to it

And +1 to the Beringher thing. My bandmate owns a PA from them, and it's pretty decent, as is the mic
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Last edited by stratman_13 at Dec 27, 2008,
#30
Quote by stevo_epi_SG_wo
this thread is wank, could you be anymore patronizing?

1) everyone knows about marshall MGs ffs

2) behringer make cheap and cheerful pedals and their amps are poor but their microphones and mixers are excellent value

3) i know someone with a "low end" gibson, and it blows any epiphone i've ever played out of the water. there is a difference and anyone who says other wise is in denial. the studio QC is sketchy but at most a pro setup will give you a fine instrument

4) hybrid amps sound notiebly better IMO the vox AD series is awesome for home practise

5) a crapload of brilliant amps are only available in 100w head form. and what if you need perfect cleans but you have to gig a concert hall unmic'd?

6) digitech pedals are all practically indestructable, thats a fact. the sound from most of them is adequate and theyre aimed at beginners mainly anyway.

7) oh look, a metal muff bandwagonner

8) pickups are entirely down to taste. EMG cleans are ok if employed correctly

9) cubes are shite

10) the first thread was fine and the TS didnt get his own opinion confused with fact


1) Count the number of people in GG&A wanting to buy an MG... No.
2) I'm going to say this loads of times: much better options for the same money.
4) He never said hybrids sounded like crap, he said they don't sound notably better than all SS amps. And that's true.
6) Better options for the same money.
9) You are an idiot.
10) Oh, irony
#31
Quote by stevo_epi_SG_wo
this thread is wank, could you be anymore patronizing?

1) everyone knows about marshall MGs ffs

2) behringer make cheap and cheerful pedals and their amps are poor but their microphones and mixers are excellent value

3) i know someone with a "low end" gibson, and it blows any epiphone i've ever played out of the water. there is a difference and anyone who says other wise is in denial. the studio QC is sketchy but at most a pro setup will give you a fine instrument

4) hybrid amps sound notiebly better IMO the vox AD series is awesome for home practise

5) a crapload of brilliant amps are only available in 100w head form. and what if you need perfect cleans but you have to gig a concert hall unmic'd?

6) digitech pedals are all practically indestructable, thats a fact. the sound from most of them is adequate and theyre aimed at beginners mainly anyway.

7) oh look, a metal muff bandwagonner

8) pickups are entirely down to taste. EMG cleans are ok if employed correctly

9) cubes are shite

10) the first thread was fine and the TS didnt get his own opinion confused with
fact



This post clears up alot of what people are thinking. I agree 100% about the behringer thing. Digitech make some great pedals.
But the cubes aren't ****e i must say. Somethings in the post i quoted are false.
Sweet.
#32
Quote by ZeGuitarist
1) Count the number of people in GG&A wanting to buy an MG... No.
2) I'm going to say this loads of times: much better options for the same money.
4) He never said hybrids sounded like crap, he said they don't sound notably better than all SS amps. And that's true.
6) Better options for the same money.
9) You are an idiot.
10) Oh, irony


in britain at least i can think of a single company doing pedals as cheap as behringer, possible exception: danelectro but their range is smaller, build is arguably worse and they dont do PA stuff

i've played a cube 30 with a tokai SG and i was nearly sick at how bad the tone was, both clean and distorted. the vox AD was infinately better IMO!!!!!! tone is completely subjective. you cant simply say "this sounds better than this"

In my experience ANY pedal sub £50 isnt worth having (stock that is) a "better" pedal than a given digitech one is still likely to be crap anyway

youre argument technique amazes me. like i say, the cube made me retch.

finally, the first thread was fine. TS justs wants a share of the "everything i say is bad isnt worth having" glory
Get off this damn forum and play your damn guitar.
#33
If you weren't able to get good tone out of the Cube, you were doing it wrong. I suggest you come over to my house and listen to what I can do with the Cube. Tone is subjective, yes, but there are standards.

Your bad spelling and grammar amazes me, and so does your way of arguing does too. I'm having a hard time finding an actual response in your post.
#34
Quote by ZeGuitarist
If you weren't able to get good tone out of the Cube, you were doing it wrong. I suggest you come over to my house and listen to what I can do with the Cube. Tone is subjective, yes, but there are standards.

Your bad spelling and grammar amazes me, and so does your way of arguing does too. I'm having a hard time finding an actual response in your post.
You're an arrogant cock!



Edit: Nah but seriously, de-plug your face from your arse. It's the internet, who cares about grammar and spelling, it's not at all representative of a person. I completely agree with Cubes sounding completely mediocre. The only tone I liked on the '60 was the R-Fier.
The Laney Thread are big and clever. No exceptions.
#35
About digitechs.

TS said there was a better alternative to the whammy? Can someone name this alternative. As far as I'm aware it appears to be the best expression pitch-shifter/harmoniser on the market. But if there's a cheaper and/or better alternative I'd love to hear about it.
#36
Quote by ZeGuitarist
If you weren't able to get good tone out of the Cube, you were doing it wrong. I suggest you come over to my house and listen to what I can do with the Cube. Tone is subjective, yes, but there are standards.

Your bad spelling and grammar amazes me, and so does your way of arguing does too. I'm having a hard time finding an actual response in your post.


you own a cube?

youre defending cubes?

OPINION VOID

if youre now arguing spelling and grammar on the INTERNET you need your life sorting out but thats for another time

EDIT: ^ i think you can get similar things from a boss super shifter and an expression pedal but thats probably more expensive

the EHX POG and HOG track much better and can harmonize chords as well as single notes but they cost so much its unbelieveable
Get off this damn forum and play your damn guitar.
#37
Quote by stevo_epi_SG_wo

EDIT: ^ i think you can get similar things from a boss super shifter and an expression pedal but thats probably more expensive

the EHX POG and HOG track much better and can harmonize chords as well as single notes but they cost so much its unbelieveable


That's what I mean. I've seen things that can do both jobs better, but for about 4 times the price and over like 3 pedals.

I understand the criticisms aimed at their other pedals, but I'd say the Digitech Whammy is a pretty respectable pedal.
#38
Quote by Heavens_To_Hell
That's what I mean. I've seen things that can do both jobs better, but for about 4 times the price and over like 3 pedals.

I understand the criticisms aimed at their other pedals, but I'd say the Digitech Whammy is a pretty respectable pedal.


yea, pitch shifters can get crazypricey

you get what you pay for
Get off this damn forum and play your damn guitar.
#39
Quote by stevo_epi_SG_wo
you own a cube?

youre defending cubes?

OPINION VOID


Yes, I own a Cube. Because when I was looking for an amp, I tried out 3 amps in my price range: an MG, a Spider, and the Cube. Obviously, I thought the Cube was a whole lot better than the other two. That's the reason I bought it: I own it because I like it, not the other way around.

You need to quit selling YOUR opinion as truth.

Quote by stevo_epi_SG_wo
if youre now arguing spelling and grammar on the INTERNET you need your life sorting out but thats for another time


If you want to have a reasonable argument, the least you could do is mind your spelling. Even on the internet.
#40
Quote by ZeGuitarist
You need to quit selling YOUR opinion as truth.


it IS the truth that i think the cubes are dreadful amps 0_o

also: the hell?

my spelling's fine.

i have a life so i miss out most of the punctuation but its perfectly readable


this thread is great fun
Get off this damn forum and play your damn guitar.
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