#1
I'm posting this in the Musican Talk forum because it has to do potentially with endorsements, making musical statements by your choice of gear, etc. Please advise if this should be in a different forum.

I just happened to be looking up a couple of different bands for a couple of different purposes, and noticed a couple of things that struck me as odd...

Cancer Bats - (a band that is really starting to break big in the Toronto area with lots of radio and print media support) gear list says they play First Act guitars... you know... that brand they sell at Wal-Mart or Zeller's or whatever.

Kittie - (a female-fronted nu-metal band supported by a major label) found a picture of one of them playing a Daisy Rock guitar. Mind you, I've never played one, but they seem to be marketed at young girls as entry-level guitars that are actually playable. (in other words, a step up from First Act)

Cancer Bats are endorsed by First Act. I couldn't find Kittie on the Daisy Rock site.

Granted, Cancer Bats probably had customized FA instruments, but really.... if they're FA, how good can even a customized one be?

That left me pondering a few possibilities:

Are Cancer Bats corporate sell-outs by selling their souls to a big-box store brand of guitars? I thought they were indie-rock heroes who managed to become successful. Or are they the next Nickelback who USED to be indie rock heroes but have since accumulated massive amounts of disdain for their corporate-whoring ways?

Or are they making a statement against big name brands by using these 'instruments' - available to even the most humble of instrument purchasers?

Or are they making a point that if you process or distort your sound enough, that it doesn't really matter all *that* much, what brand of guitar you play? (case in point, I ran an acoustic guitar with a pickup through a digitech processor with big balls of distortion, and you never would have believed it was an acoustic guitar.... haha)

With Kittie... they have major label support and have had some chart success. If they're NOT endorsed by Daisy Rock, and you would expect that in their position, that they would be able to buy themselves, or have someone buy for them, a brand of guitar more in line with their position in the industry, then what would make them play those?

Are those guitars really that good?

Are they making a statement?

I mean, sure, you can find examples all over the place of people playing things other than Strats, Teles, or Gibsons, but they were of models that typically offer pro level guitars:

ex. Cobain played a Fender Mustang. Steve Vai and Rik Emmet both genuinely played as well as endorsed Ibanez. Lots of metalheads play and endorse ESP.

But First Act and Daisy Rock? I just found this weird.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#3
I think you're putting too much thought into this dude, lol. And it probably should be in the electric guitar forum.

Willy Nelson has had the same guitar for ever.. said he bought it for like 30$ at one point in time and he still plays it
#5
Quote by axemanchris
I'm posting this in the Musican Talk forum because it has to do potentially with endorsements, making musical statements by your choice of gear, etc. Please advise if this should be in a different forum.

I just happened to be looking up a couple of different bands for a couple of different purposes, and noticed a couple of things that struck me as odd...

Cancer Bats - (a band that is really starting to break big in the Toronto area with lots of radio and print media support) gear list says they play First Act guitars... you know... that brand they sell at Wal-Mart or Zeller's or whatever.

Kittie - (a female-fronted nu-metal band supported by a major label) found a picture of one of them playing a Daisy Rock guitar. Mind you, I've never played one, but they seem to be marketed at young girls as entry-level guitars that are actually playable. (in other words, a step up from First Act)

Cancer Bats are endorsed by First Act. I couldn't find Kittie on the Daisy Rock site.

Granted, Cancer Bats probably had customized FA instruments, but really.... if they're FA, how good can even a customized one be?

That left me pondering a few possibilities:

Are Cancer Bats corporate sell-outs by selling their souls to a big-box store brand of guitars? I thought they were indie-rock heroes who managed to become successful. Or are they the next Nickelback who USED to be indie rock heroes but have since accumulated massive amounts of disdain for their corporate-whoring ways?

Or are they making a statement against big name brands by using these 'instruments' - available to even the most humble of instrument purchasers?

Or are they making a point that if you process or distort your sound enough, that it doesn't really matter all *that* much, what brand of guitar you play? (case in point, I ran an acoustic guitar with a pickup through a digitech processor with big balls of distortion, and you never would have believed it was an acoustic guitar.... haha)

With Kittie... they have major label support and have had some chart success. If they're NOT endorsed by Daisy Rock, and you would expect that in their position, that they would be able to buy themselves, or have someone buy for them, a brand of guitar more in line with their position in the industry, then what would make them play those?

Are those guitars really that good?

Are they making a statement?

I mean, sure, you can find examples all over the place of people playing things other than Strats, Teles, or Gibsons, but they were of models that typically offer pro level guitars:

ex. Cobain played a Fender Mustang. Steve Vai and Rik Emmet both genuinely played as well as endorsed Ibanez. Lots of metalheads play and endorse ESP.

But First Act and Daisy Rock? I just found this weird. CT


I've always thought of Nickelback as corporate *****s .....right from the start. They kind of epitomize it IMO.

Anyway it's the music business. People are in it to make money. Good for them if they succeed.
shred is gaudy music
#6
First Act isn't just cheap 100$ guitars. They have some real nice high-end stuff. Take a look at their website.
Duke Ellington - If it sounds good, it is good.
#7
Do you think They use those in the studio?

Most music is recorded on gibsons or strat, unless ur guitar plays a "lead" role, then it's signature sound, but those 2 sounds are the most "overall" best sounding. Aka it will appeal to most people, cause it's classic sound.

But even people Like Vai and Satch use different amps and guitars on occasion in the studio thent hey do live. Endorsement has almost always nothing to do with someone's music. It's just advertisements and part of the business part of music.

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
(most intelligent)
The "Good Samaritan" Award 2009 (most helpful)

[font="Palatino Linotype
Who's Andy Timmons??
#8
Why would an indie band put so much thought into the quality of their instruments anyway?
Practice. Play. Sleep. Repeat.

Quote by pearlJam_31490
i take it next your going to tell me that Cb is a note too!
#9
Quote by xxdarrenxx
Do you think They use those in the studio?

Most music is recorded on gibsons or strat, unless ur guitar plays a "lead" role, then it's signature sound, but those 2 sounds are the most "overall" best sounding. Aka it will appeal to most people, cause it's classic sound.

But even people Like Vai and Satch use different amps and guitars on occasion in the studio thent hey do live. Endorsement has almost always nothing to do with someone's music. It's just advertisements and part of the business part of music.



answered.
#10
Quote by Peaceful Rocker

Willy Nelson has had the same guitar for ever.. said he bought it for like 30$ at one point in time and he still plays it


But if he bought this guitar in the 1950's, then it could well be a Martin or a Gibson at that price.

@americanruse - It doesn't matter, really. I just thought it was weird and was looking for what other people made of it.

@guitarmunky - Silver Side Up was their first major label album that went huge, and for a lot of people, it represents their first album. They had 4 releases prior to Silver Side Up, two of which were independent.

@anything goes - Okay. Now, THAT, I had no idea. So much for my assumptions and preconceptions.

@darren - Yes, I considered the fact that what they say they use and what they actually use can be two entirely different things. However, Cancer Bats don't list any other guitars except the First Act ones, and the photo I saw of Kittie playing Daisy Rock guitars was at a gig. So, maybe not in the studio, but they are using them live.

CT


CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#11
Quote by MeltedMetal
Why would an indie band put so much thought into the quality of their instruments anyway?


I bet if I put up a poll in the electric guitar forum about what brand of guitars people are using, even the teenagers here would scoff at those of us who use First Act or Daisy Rock guitars.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#12
Quote by axemanchris
I bet if I put up a poll in the electric guitar forum about what brand of guitars people are using, even the teenagers here would scoff at those of us who use First Act or Daisy Rock guitars.

CT



of-course..... those guitars are garbage. It's a business move in a business world. Who cares. I'm not going to buy one, and it doesnt take anything away from those that do have enough integrity to not be involved with that kind of thing. There has always been, and will always be sellouts. The best thing you can do if it really bothers you is to not "sellout" yourself.
regarding nickelback.... I don't care what else they've done. What they're doing now tells me everything I need to know. Shallow, cheap & redundant IMO.....however I respect the fact that some people like that kind of thing, and it's not too much of a hassle for me to turn the station whenever they're on.

There are alot of things in the music business that bother me.... I just try to focus on other things and enjoy making music. You can't change them, or the system, but you do control your own actions and contributions.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Dec 27, 2008,
#13
Go back far enough and you'll run across The Shadows playing Burns guitars on their TV appearances. Yet they recorded and played live with Fenders. No talk of sponsorships then but what else could it have been?
I dunno about just Fenders and Gibsons for recording? Mate of mine had a studio in Birmingham and most of the guitar work by the hundred or so bands that used it was done on his Yamaha as it recorded better.
#14
i think way back when kittie were endorsing fernandes. i have an old guitar world with them in it somewhere i might try to find it later. it's probably one of those things where they'll take whoever will endorse them and in the end if you run enough gain and the right eq through it you won't be able to tell much of a difference as long as you're not trying to duplicate the tone and sound of an expensive custom guitar.
#15
Quote by axemanchris


@darren - Yes, I considered the fact that what they say they use and what they actually use can be two entirely different things. However, Cancer Bats don't list any other guitars except the First Act ones, and the photo I saw of Kittie playing Daisy Rock guitars was at a gig. So, maybe not in the studio, but they are using them live.



A doh?

I lolled a bit. You sign a contract that you don't advertise for rivalling companies. DO you think they will keep endorsing you if you list equipment of other brands?

And Kittie lol. Those are "rockchicks", do you think live drunken people come for the music of such a band? And if they play em live I can bet that they are custom made or modded.

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
(most intelligent)
The "Good Samaritan" Award 2009 (most helpful)

[font="Palatino Linotype
Who's Andy Timmons??
#16
Quote by xxdarrenxx

And Kittie lol. Those are "rockchicks", do you think live drunken people come for the music of such a band? And if they play em live I can bet that they are custom made or modded.

i would go see kittie if they came here. i dig alot of their stuff.
#17
Quote by xxdarrenxx


Most music is recorded on gibsons or strat, unless ur guitar plays a "lead" role, then it's signature sound, but those 2 sounds are the most "overall" best sounding. Aka it will appeal to most people, cause it's classic sound.



i dont know how you can say this at all
Quote by ILuvPillows?
Masturbate it off.
#19
Kelly Clarkson's guitarist uses a first act. I saw him in a magazine add. Turns out they have a custom shop.
#20
I don't get the problem some people have with artists signing endorsement deals...obviously they need to make a living, and I can't see why it isn't a good thing that there are ways like endorsement deals for people doing what we love to make money in addition to shows, cd sales, and t-shirts and what not.

No one calls a big name basketball star a sellout because he has an endorsement deal with Nike, or Adidas or something. It seems to be unique to musicians (or maybe artists in general) that you're not "for real" unless you are living on your friends couch and eating Ramen Noodles.
#21
Quote by se012101
I don't get the problem some people have with artists signing endorsement deals...obviously they need to make a living, and I can't see why it isn't a good thing that there are ways like endorsement deals for people doing what we love to make money in addition to shows, cd sales, and t-shirts and what not.

No one calls a big name basketball star a sellout because he has an endorsement deal with Nike, or Adidas or something. It seems to be unique to musicians (or maybe artists in general) that you're not "for real" unless you are living on your friends couch and eating Ramen Noodles.


Even though, to the best of my knowledge at least, endorsement deals between a musician and an instrument manufacturer are a far cry different than a basketball player with a nike endorsement. Musicians usually appear in ads for those companies in exchange for free or discounted gear. I'm not too sure whether they collect any kind of payment other than that for it (though I'm sure it's different if the company they endorse sells a signature product with their name on it), where as athletes appear in ads in exchange for ridiculously large sums of money.