#1
Note: This thread is to discuss current events in Gaza, not to debate the politics of that region, the politics thread is for that.


Israeli residents of communities close to Gaza have faced a wave of rocket fire from Palestinian militants in response to Israel's air strikes in the Strip.

Some 150 rockets and mortars have been fired, most of them on Saturday, since Israel launched its assault, killing one person and injuring about 12.

On Sunday residents of the southern town of Netivot buried Beber Vaknin, 58.

The metal worker was standing at the entrance of his apartment on Saturday when a rocket struck the third floor of the building across the street. Shrapnel pierced his heart.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7802276.stm


Israel has bombed supply tunnels in the southern Gaza Strip in a second day of intense air raids aimed at forcing Hamas militants to halt rocket fire.

Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni says the operation has been a success so far and the aim is to "change realities on the ground" in Gaza.

Israel has threatened to launch a ground assault and is now calling up 6,500 army reservists.

Palestinians say at least 280 people have died in the air raids.

A major tunnel bringing fuel into Gaza from Egypt was among three destroyed, Palestinians say. But Israel says its jets bombed more than 40 tunnels.

Israel accuses Palestinian militants of using the tunnels to smuggle weapons into Gaza.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7801662.stm


To be honest I think that this is a heinous over-reaction by Israel, one dead Israeli does not merit over 280 dead Palestinians.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#2
I like santa clause.
"Bullshit is the glue that binds this nation together."
-George Carlin



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#4
Israel should not even exist. Sick ****ers, honestly I want everyone to just step back and let them kill each other, I'll be rooting for Pakistan.
Quote by FrenchyFungus
I am not a woman as I currently claim


Quote by Rabid
I am actually a woman, unlike Frenchy
#5
Quote by SoulTrip
Hamas is a terrorist organization. Israel has every right to snuff them out.

My entire nation was founded by "terrorists".
We called them freedom fighters.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#6
Quote by SoulTrip
Hamas is a terrorist organization. Israel has every right to snuff them out.
Oh of course.

Fuck any innocent Palestinians who happen to be standing outside their place of residence one day
#9
Quote by Ur all $h1t
To be honest I think that this is a heinous over-reaction by Israel, one dead Israeli does not merit over 280 dead Palestinians."

Most of these 280 deads were militants. Not civilians. In fact, this time even Egypt sided with Israel.
This isn't because of one dead Israeli. It's because of years of missiles falling everyday over Israel.

Quote by Ur all $h1t
My entire nation was founded by "terrorists".
We called them freedom fighters.

The old days IRA didn't behave like Hamas.
Would you call this "Freedom Fighters"?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7801881.stm
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Last edited by urik at Dec 28, 2008,
#10
Quote by bob farrell
Israel should not even exist. Sick ****ers, honestly I want everyone to just step back and let them kill each other, I'll be rooting for Pakistan.

Hoy, none of that now. I don't want Carmel closing this because people start badmouthing her country or because this turns into a political discussion. Lets keep it to current events ya?
Quote by SoulTrip
Whatever. Grow up, learn the HISTORY and the real-time politics, and get back to me.

I know both mate.

Quote by urik
Most of these 280 deads were militants.

You've had time to asses that already when the official death tolls aren't even in?

Not civilians. In fact, this time even Egypt sided with Israel.

Odd. considering even Irish politicians have been condemning you guys all day.

This isn't because of one dead Israeli. It's because of years of missiles falling everyday over Israel.

I'm sure glad the Brits never took your attitude with us when we were blowing up their shopping centres or I might be dead.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
Last edited by Ur all $h1t at Dec 28, 2008,
#11
Quote by SoulTrip
Hamas is a terrorist organization. Israel has every right to snuff them out.

No, they don't.
Quote by bob farrell
Israel should not even exist. Sick ****ers, honestly I want everyone to just step back and let them kill each other, I'll be rooting for Pakistan.

#12
Quote by urik


The old days IRA didn't behave like Hamas.
Would you call this "Freedom Fighters"?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7801881.stm

I'm not a Hamas supporter, I see both sides as wrong here.

Oh, and the old IRA weren't angels. They once dragged an elderly accountant from a train and shot him dead.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#13
Quote by Ur all $h1t

You've had time to asses that already when the official death tolls aren't even in?

Most of the bombed places were Hamas training areas and strategic places.
I've read that most of them were militants. Let me find the article.
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#14
Quote by Ur all $h1t
Hoy, none of that now. I don't want Carmel closing this because people start badmouthing her country or because this turns into a political discussion. Lets keep it to current events ya?

I know both mate.


You've had time to asses that already when the official death tolls aren't even in?

Odd. considering even Irish politicians have been condemning you guys all day.


I'm sure glad the Brits never took your attitude with us when we were blowing up their shopping centres or I might be dead.

Sorry.

Edit: At Blynd Sniper, I'm not going to reply to that in the interests of Carmel not coming to close this thread down because it is stepping away from current events.

Double Edit: Oh I see now I said Pakistan not Palestine!! Sorry
Quote by FrenchyFungus
I am not a woman as I currently claim


Quote by Rabid
I am actually a woman, unlike Frenchy
Last edited by bob farrell at Dec 28, 2008,
#15
Quote by bob farrell
Israel should not even exist. Sick ****ers, honestly I want everyone to just step back and let them kill each other, I'll be rooting for Pakistan.


This thread is about Israel and Palestine, not India and Pakistan.

edit: ahh, I see this confusion has already been resolved.
#16
Quote by bob farrell
Edit: At Blynd Sniper, I'm not going to reply to that in the interests of Carmel not coming to close this thread down because it is stepping away from current events.

Double Edit: Oh I see now I said Pakistan not Palestine!! Sorry

Haha, sorry about that, I probably should have explained my point a little better. By the way I'd like to congratulate you on being the 1 millionth person, who, when copying my name managed to use a y in 'blynd' but not in 'snyper'. I hope one day to document this strange phenomenon.
#17
Here I found it:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/29/world/middleeast/29mideast.html?_r=1

Palestinian officials said that most of those killed in the Israeli assault on Gaza were security officers for Hamas, and that at least 600 people had been wounded in the attacks.


Anyway, why is it wrong for Israel to defend itself? Around 200 rockets fell on Israel since the truce ended. We wanted to extend the truce. Not speaking about the thousands of rockets that the Palestinians launched into Israel during the last years.
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Last edited by urik at Dec 28, 2008,
#18
Quote by blynd_snyper
Haha, sorry about that, I probably should have explained my point a little better. By the way I'd like to congratulate you on being the 1 millionth person, who, when copying my name managed to use a y in 'blynd' but not in 'snyper'. I hope one day to document this strange phenomenon.

Yeah I noticed that too, well in my post, I don't know what is up with that as a phenomenon, you should do some experiments with mad coloured chemicals and a maniacal laugh. Oh and test tubes of course.
Quote by FrenchyFungus
I am not a woman as I currently claim


Quote by Rabid
I am actually a woman, unlike Frenchy
#19
Quote by urik

I'd lime a clearer definition of "most" and "security officials"
Particularly considering a mosque, a prison and a television station were among those hit. I understand there there were probably Hamas terrorists there but there were almost certainly civilians too.

Anyway, why is it wrong for Israel to defend itself? Around 200 rockets fell on Israel since the truce ended. We wanted to extend the truce. Not speaking about the thousands of rockets that the Palestinians launched into Israel during the last years.

If you wanted to extend the truce then why are you continuing the economic blockade?
I'm genuinely just confused by this.

I don't think it's wrong to defend yourselves, but I'm just looking at it from my point of view, which is that I live in a country which up to 10 years ago, and beyond, was launching constant attacks on Britain (if we'd had rockets you can be damn sure they'd have been used).
If Britain had responded like Israel I might be dead. There's defending yourself and then there's embarking upon attacks that will cause certain collateral damage and quite probably serve to strengthen the group you seek to destroy.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#20
Quote by Ur all $h1t

Odd. considering even Irish politicians have been condemning you guys all day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XEXsbTLfXE

Quote by Ur all $h1t

I'm sure glad the Brits never took your attitude with us when we were blowing up their shopping centres or I might be dead.

Are the ones bombing their shopping centers the political party representing you? Moreover, did they do it 6 thousands times during the last 8 years? And do they hide in your house?

Quote by Ur all $h1t
I'd lime a clearer definition of "most" and "security officials"

Those "security officials" are the ones shooting rockets into Israel.
Particularly considering a mosque, a prison and a television station were among those hit.

The mosque was used as a military base for Hamas.
The TV station was used for indoctrination of the children. Remember that nice pink bunny teaching children that exploding themselves is the best thing they could do? Those are the guys behind it.
I don't have info about what happened with the prison.
I understand there there were probably Hamas terrorists there but there were almost certainly civilians too.

Ok. Should we keep letting them continue with it just because they have civilians there?

If you wanted to extend the truce then why are you continuing the economic blockade?
I'm genuinely just confused by this.

Because they still kept firing during the truce? They actually broke the truce?

I don't think it's wrong to defend yourselves, but I'm just looking at it from my point of view, which is that I live in a country which up to 10 years ago, and beyond, was launching constant attacks on Britain (if we'd had rockets you can be damn sure they'd have been used).
If Britain had responded like Israel I might be dead. There's defending yourself and then there's embarking upon attacks that will cause certain collateral damage and quite probably serve to strengthen the group you seek to destroy.

I ask again. Did Ireland throw more than 6 thousand attacks on Britain (even more, on the britain's civilian population) in the time lapse of 8 years? Was the hate as big as over here?
And you're talking like if Israel attacked the civilian population, while again, Israel attacked military and strategic positions of Hamas. So answering your question, if Britain responded like us, you probably would be alive as long as you didn't take part in the IRA's actions, and the IRA didn't use your home as a shelter.
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Last edited by urik at Dec 28, 2008,
#21
Quote by urik

I wasn't doubting the truthfulness of your claim, I was just saying that it was odd.

Are the ones bombing their shopping centers the political party representing you? Moreover, did they do it 6 thousands times during the last 8 years? And do they hide in your house?

I don't see how them being the party that represented me would make a difference to be honest.
One of them would have been hiding in my grandfather's house.

I have no idea how many attacks there were. There is also the fact that the British were quite good at stopping the vast majority of them before they got started.


As I've said, I'm not taking a side here, I'm just genuinely questioning what's been going on


Quote by urik


Those "security officials" are the ones shooting rockets into Israel.

What an odd name for a soldier

The mosque was used as a military base for Hamas.
Allegedly
The TV station was used for indoctrination of the children. Remember that nice pink bunny teaching children that exploding themselves is the best thing they could do? Those are the guys behind it.
That doesn;t merit killing everyone inside it in fairness.


Ok. Should we keep letting them continue with it just because they have civilians there?
I'd be inclined to say yes under the assumption that I might be one of the civilians.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
Last edited by Ur all $h1t at Dec 28, 2008,
#22
Quote by urik

I ask again. Did Ireland throw more than 6 thousand attacks on Britain (even more, on the britain's civilian population) in the time lapse of 8 years? Was the hate as big as over here?
And you're talking like if Israel attacked the civilian population, while again, Israel attacked military and strategic positions of Hamas. So answering your question, if Britain responded like us, you probably would be alive as long as you didn't take part in the IRA's actions, and the IRA didn't use your home as a shelter.

Mate my grand dad didn;t take part in the attacks but people living in his ouse did.
He didn;t even agree with it.

I don;t think that you're attacking civilians, but they are dying. Looking at the news just there now you guys hit a hospital.

At the height of the troubles there was probably about an attack a day. It's impossible to say for certain.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#23
The fun thing i've noticed on the news is that everything bad that happens to Israel happens, everything bad that happens to Palestine is alleged. No matter how true it is :/
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#25
Quote by rizo299
An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

>280 eyes for an eye

...
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#26
Quote by Ur all $h1t
>280 eyes for an eye

...

">280 eyes for an eye leaves the whole world blind a whole lot faster" doesn't have quite the same ring to it
Last edited by rizo299 at Dec 28, 2008,
#27
Quote by Ur all $h1t

I don't see how them being the party that represented me would make a difference to be honest.

Well you see, when you choose them to represent you, you are supporting their actions, making you indirectly responsible for the actions that such government makes. Though it doesn't say that you should kill the ones who elected them.

Quote by Ur all $h1t
One of them would have been hiding in my grandfather's house.

Then your grandfather would know the dangers, and agree to pay the consequences if they catch him. Now if we could take the terrorist to jail without harming the grandpa, we'd do it. However, we're out of Gaza and bringing in troops is very dangerous, so we will bomb his house.

Quote by Ur all $h1t
I have no idea how many attacks there were. There is also the fact that the British were quite good at stopping the vast majority of them before they got started.

Still, I think that we can agree on the fact that they probably were way less than 6 thousand attacks and weren't as fierce as what goes over here.
Kudos to the British police. Sadly, again we're out of Gaza, and those rockets can be shot from any house. We're having a hard time stopping them.

Quote by Ur all $h1t
As I've said, I'm not taking a side here, I'm just genuinely questioning what's been going on

That's odd considering that you once used "Zionist" as a curse for Hells Bells or Bassistgal.
EDIT: I think now that it actually was Meths. Sorry if it wasn't you.
Quote by Ur all $h1t
What an odd name for a soldier

Indeed. Sometimes they're also called "insurgents", "activists"... They have many names. It doesn't change a thing.

Quote by Ur all $h1t
Allegedly

Why allegedly? You're a smart person. Not the typical "ISRAEL ARE NAZIS DETH TO TEH JOOS" kind of person so I think that you know that we don't enjoy killing Palestinians. So why would we bomb a mosque for the fun of it, wasting a damn fine bomb with it?

Quote by Ur all $h1t
That doesn't merit killing everyone inside it in fairness.

Ok. Should we politely ask the Palestinians to close it?

Quote by Ur all $h1t
I'd be inclined to say yes under the assumption that I might be one of the civilians.

I'd be inclined to say no under the assumption that I'm the one they teach the kids to kill.

Quote by Ur all $h1t
Mate my grand dad didn;t take part in the attacks but people living in his ouse did.
He didn;t even agree with it.

Then why did he let them use it? Did they put a gun in his head and told him to let them use it?
And again, the British police had the possibility of going to his home and taking the terrorist. We don't.

Quote by Ur all $h1t
I don;t think that you're attacking civilians, but they are dying. Looking at the news just there now you guys hit a hospital.

It's war. People die in wars. Show me a war without civilian casualties.

Quote by Ur all $h1t
At the height of the troubles there was probably about an attack a day. It's impossible to say for certain.

Actually, since 2000 to April 2008 there were about 6500 Qassams and mortars fired into Israel. Since that day, approximately 2900 days have passed. That would be 2 missiles a day. However' there was a calm time span. Last year, in average 4 rockets were shot into Israel. This year, from january to april, barely 120 days, around 1679 rockets were shot into Israel. That's 13 rockets per day.
Barely a rocket per day. Right?

Quote by Ur all $h1t
>280 eyes for an eye

...

That would mean shooting directly at the civilian population with the intention of killing it . Sadly, that would mean leveling Gaza since we're better than them at it.
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Last edited by urik at Dec 28, 2008,
#29
Quote by SoulTrip
Hamas is a terrorist organization. Israel has every right to snuff them out.

What's the quote... "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter."

It's all perspective. If these people were only about a reign of terror, they wouldn't have enough support or members to get into a mess this big. They must have some form of grass-roots appeal to say that they're a powerful militant organisation.

The governments of terrorism-afflicted areas are to blame for the rise of terrorism, simply because at one point they made conditions so bad for a group of people at the bottom of either the social or financial ladder that they felt motivated to start these terrible movements.

And finally, IMO the fact that one Israelite has been reported dead as opposed to 280 Palestinians, makes this a hugely unjust conflict. One Israelite doesn't equate to 280 Palestinians. Israel were just looking for an excuse to go to war, they have been for years.
Ego inflating praise here:
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That is SOOOOOOOOOOO sig worthy! Pure awesomeness to you, sir.

C wut I did thar Fishy?

's UG
#30
Quote by urik
Well you see, when you choose them to represent you, you are supporting their actions, making you indirectly responsible for the actions that such government makes. Though it doesn't say that you should kill the ones who elected them.

I've never had a government I supported run my country, an I likely never will. I'd rather not die because they got into office.


Then your grandfather would know the dangers, and agree to pay the consequences if they catch him. Now if we could take the terrorist to jail without harming the grandpa, we'd do it. However, we're out of Gaza and bringing in troops is very dangerous, so we will bomb his house.

Awesome. By doing that you would more than likely turn my entire family into a group of raving lunatic terrorists who live solely to destroy every last one of you.


Still, I think that we can agree on the fact that they probably were way less than 6 thousand attacks and weren't as fierce as what goes over here.
Kudos to the British police. Sadly, again we're out of Gaza, and those rockets can be shot from any house. We're having a hard time stopping them.

The Brits were out of Ireland. Admittedly we didn't have rockets.
If there were only 500 attacks I take it you'd be ok with it then
That's odd considering that you once used "Zionist" as a curse for Hells Bells or Bassistgal.
EDIT: I think now that it actually was Meths. Sorry if it wasn't you.

T'was Meths. I don't claim to know enough about this issue to be insulting about it.
Indeed. Sometimes they're also called "insurgents", "activists"... They have many names. It doesn't change a thing.

It kind of does. An IRA activist would be much different to an IRA soldier.

Why allegedly? You're a smart person. Not the typical "ISRAEL ARE NAZIS DETH TO TEH JOOS" kind of person so I think that you know that we don't enjoy killing Palestinians. So why would we bomb a mosque for the fun of it, wasting a damn fine bomb with it?

I'm just goading you, hence the

Ok. Should we politely ask the Palestinians to close it?


I'd be inclined to say no under the assumption that I'm the one they teach the kids to kill.

If I had the solution I'd be over there running your government. I know what you shouldn't do though: Kill everyone inside it.


Then why did he let them use it? Did they put a gun in his head and told him to let them use it?
And again, the British police had the possibility of going to his home and taking the terrorist. We don't.

The British police had no jurisdiction in Cavan
He didn't let them use it. He and his brother co-owned the farm. Would you sell out your brother? Hell, how would you even go about it?
It's war. People die in wars. Show me a war without civilian casualties.

Perhaps it shouldn't BE a war. That'd be what I'm getting at.

Actually, since 2000 to April 2008 there were about 6500 Qassams and mortars fired into Israel. Since that day, approximately 2900 days have passed. That would be 2 missiles a day. However' there was a calm time span. Last year, in average 4 rockets were shot into Israel. This year, from january to april, barely 120 days, around 1679 rockets were shot into Israel. That's 13 rockets per day.
Barely a rocket per day. Right?

If there was only a missile every two days would you feel differently?

That would mean shooting directly at the civilian population with the intention of killing it . Sadly, that would mean leveling Gaza since we're better than them at it.

"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#31
Quote by Ur all $h1t
I've never had a government I supported run my country, an I likely never will. I'd rather not die because they got into office.

Well, that's why we insist in shooting military targets.

Quote by Ur all $h1t
Awesome. By doing that you would more than likely turn my entire family into a group of raving lunatic terrorists who live solely to destroy every last one of you.

Or they'd say "Foolish grandpa. Why did he help the terrorists?". That also is another scenario. Back then England really did occupy Ireland, and all what Ireland wanted was independence. However, Israel doesn't occupy Gaza since the 2005, and we offered them the whole Gaza strip and 94% of the west bank back in the 2000, and they declined. Please check the Hamas charter.
Here:
This Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS), clarifies its picture, reveals its identity, outlines its stand, explains its aims, speaks about its hopes, and calls for its support, adoption and joining its ranks. Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts. It is a step that inevitably should be followed by other steps. The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the enemy is vanquished and Allah's victory is realised.
.

Hamas finds itself at a period of time when Islam has waned away from the reality of life. For this reason, the checks and balances have been upset, concepts have become confused, and values have been transformed; evil has prevailed, oppression and obscurity have reigned; cowards have turned tigers, homelands have been usurped, people have been uprooted and are wandering all over the globe. The state of truth has disappeared and was replaced by the state of evil. Nothing has remained in its right place, for when Islam is removed from the scene, everything changes. These are the motives. As to the objectives: discarding the evil, crushing it and defeating it, so that truth may prevail, homelands revert [to their owners], calls for prayer be heard from their mosques, announcing the reinstitution of the Muslim state. Thus, people and things will revert to their true place.

This part, appears before the independence part. Basically, their goal isn't independence. Their goal is the annihilation of all Jews, and setting up an Islamic theocrazy in the whole area of Israel. They won't accept coexistence, they won't accept peace, they won't accept a two states solution.
Although Fatah didn't express that objective as clearly as Hamas does, basing myself on the actions of Arafat, they chased the same goals.

So basically, the IRA were defenders, while Hamas are attackers, making the grandpa not the poor guy dying for his country, but the one trying to kill the others.

Quote by Ur all $h1t
The Brits were out of Ireland. Admittedly we didn't have rockets.
If there were only 500 attacks I take it you'd be ok with it then

I wouldn't be ok with it. However, I wouldn't support the current Israeli operative and politics.
May I know how did the British police take care of the terrorists back then?

Quote by Ur all $h1t
It kind of does. An IRA activist would be much different to an IRA soldier.

Not if he holds a gun and uses it against the enemy.

Quote by Ur all $h1t
I'm just goading you, hence the



Quote by Ur all $h1t
If I had the solution I'd be over there running your government. I know what you shouldn't do though: Kill everyone inside it.

So it'd be better to simply keep letting them do it? That's very easy to say considering the fact that you're not the one in Israel.

Quote by Ur all $h1t
The British police had no jurisdiction in Cavan
He didn't let them use it. He and his brother co-owned the farm. Would you sell out your brother? Hell, how would you even go about it?

No, but I wouldn't let him use my house if I knew that it would endanger the rest of my family.

Quote by Ur all $h1t
Perhaps it shouldn't BE a war. That'd be what I'm getting at.

I agree. However, the Palestinians keep attacking us.

Quote by Ur all $h1t
If there was only a missile every two days would you feel differently?

Yes. I'd seek peaceful solutions to the problem, and wouldn't support such a bloody operative.


Now I'm going to watch some episodes of "24" with my family so I will respond later.
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Last edited by urik at Dec 28, 2008,
#32
ITT: People have no idea what they're talking about.
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when i grow up i wanna have blackandsilver's babies!

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..
HOLY HELL.

nice discovery, sir.


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