#1
EDIT: REMIX - Taking most of the advice here, we remixed the vocals completely with compression, different EQ, and got rid of the chorus all together. Check it out now.

ORIGINAL POST: Taking a bit of advice from other threads I've had, our newest recording has tried to address a few things, mainly the drum tone and effects. Let's hear it!

http://www.myspace.com/dissensionma

C4C, obviously

EDIT: I've gotten some good feedback on the guitar tone, so I figured I'd list the equipment and recording methods for anyone who is interested!

Amp - Rivera M80 60 watt Head
Cab - Randall Warhead 4x10
Guitar - Schecter Hellraiser C1
Mic - Senheiser Evolution e906
Interface - PreSonus USB External Drive
Software - Cubase LE 4 (came with the sound driver)

I only used one mic for this tone, but I layered the guitar with two recordings. I have one guitar panned 100% to the right speakers, this is the "root guitar" which is playing the main riffs. I then have a second guitar panned all the way to the left, this is the harmony guitar, but both are going the entire song. I recorded the harmony guitar with the neck pickup and the root guitar with the bridge (Schecter Hellraiser with EMGs). I took a page out of James Hetfield's book and added a "thickener" for specific chords that I wanted to stand out. Right before every chorus for instance, I have the thickener come in just for the eight hits of the F major chord so there are three guitars pounding it for that measure. I also used the thickener to throw some 16th triplet sweeps into the last chorus, sadly we mixed them a little too quiet, but they are like a gift to anyone who really focuses.

I used A LOT of mids on my amp, which is very important for a clear tone. (Treble - 9 Mids - 7 Bass - 9 Presence - 4 Reverb - 3) Since I'm using my amps distortion, I just used the pre and post volumes for it... (Pre - 6 Post - 4) as you can see I didn't use that much distortion, hence, clear notes.

I placed the mic about 4 - 6 inches from the speaker aimed SLIGHTLY off the center of the cone. Instead of pointing it directly at the center, I aimed it at the brim just under the center. I placed my cab in a tiny closet that was about 3 feet wide and 3 feet deep. I figured this would be like a little sound-proof room and it would get a great sound. It did. I suggest you guys try shoving your cab in a tiny area and micing it, it works great.

Other than this, I used no effects at all. We added a tiny bit of EQ post-record, but what you hear on guitar is pretty much my amp with a mic in front of it. For the solo I turned the mids down a tad and put on some more reverb, but that's pretty much it.

Hope this might be helpful to some!
Last edited by Gordita Supreme at Jan 5, 2009,
#2
Very good riffs. Drums need to be much LOUDER. And where is the bass???? The screams are horrible. Hate it so much, sorry. Just my opinion. Why have such great melodic guitar riffs are ruin with Jurasic Park soundtrack??? Cor dear...lol Can't even work out what you're saying either.

Guitar...almost faultless, beautifal tone. What do you use to record guitar?

C4C? https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1033671
Orophin
#3
Quote by Orophin
Very good riffs. Drums need to be much LOUDER. And where is the bass???? The screams are horrible. Hate it so much, sorry. Just my opinion. Why have such great melodic guitar riffs are ruin with Jurasic Park soundtrack??? Cor dear...lol Can't even work out what you're saying either.

Guitar...almost faultless, beautifal tone. What do you use to record guitar?

C4C? https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1033671


Do you just dislike screaming in general or what? I mean, Jurrasic Park is awesome.

I recorded the guitars like so...

Rivera Head (forgot the type) Randall Cab 4 x 10
Schecter Hellraiser C1
Sennheiser Evolution 609 mic (amazing)
Cubase LE 4 through an external Audiobox

No effects, just my guitar and amp.
#4
the vocals just need to be compressed thats it. i didnt really like the first riff. pretty generic and metalcoreish. i liked the following riffs though. i personally wasn't a fan of the guitar tone but it may just be my preference. you guys are tight though. sounds well put together.

c4c?
Quote by shakin'cakes
First of all, I enjoy deathcore for it's complexity and it's the only genre heavy enough for me



Quote by Highway60Bob
I want an amp good for playing hippie tunes. I want it to be an actual amp, not a tube amp.
#5
I agree with most of the above, very tight, very good guitars, vocals were eh, could use some work, compress them maybe put a little bit of gain on them

I like the riffs a ton though they're very heavy and your tone was well put for metal,
#6
Quote by pmeg568c
the vocals just need to be compressed thats it. i didnt really like the first riff. pretty generic and metalcoreish. i liked the following riffs though. i personally wasn't a fan of the guitar tone but it may just be my preference. you guys are tight though. sounds well put together.

c4c?


You mean to just compress the volume on them?
#7
pretty good guys. vocals arent too bad, the guitar is sick as hell. the second riff sounded like the breakdown in One by Metallica. sick keep it up
#8
Quote by GuitarShredder+
pretty good guys. vocals arent too bad, the guitar is sick as hell. the second riff sounded like the breakdown in One by Metallica. sick keep it up


Thanks dude.

It's not usual for people to criticize the vocals in our music much, but if I'm understanding this right the main issue is the way it's recorded? I've seen a few comments that they need some compression.. but in what way? What would you all suggest? I feel there is a bit too much chorus on them and it makes them sound slightly tinny and mechanical, but what would I do about compression? Should I record them quieter and then adjust volume? Or should I add some kind of compression post-recording?
#9
you should add compression post recording, and probably not use chorus. any band with a screaming vocalist compresses the vocals, its just something that is understood to have to be done.
Quote by shakin'cakes
First of all, I enjoy deathcore for it's complexity and it's the only genre heavy enough for me



Quote by Highway60Bob
I want an amp good for playing hippie tunes. I want it to be an actual amp, not a tube amp.
#10
Quote by pmeg568c
you should add compression post recording, and probably not use chorus. any band with a screaming vocalist compresses the vocals, its just something that is understood to have to be done.


Alright, and what good does compressing do? I'm assuming it evens out some of the bursts of volume / higher pitches and such so it is smoother and blends better?
#11
Quote by Gordita Supreme
Alright, and what good does compressing do? I'm assuming it evens out some of the bursts of volume / higher pitches and such so it is smoother and blends better?



Pretty much, yes.

You can still go back and edit if your using a mixing software.


But yes, always compress your vocals.
#12
Quote by Drodo141
Pretty much, yes.

You can still go back and edit if your using a mixing software.


But yes, always compress your vocals.


Alright, maybe I'll remix the vocals without the unnatural sounding chorus and compress them and see how that sounds. Thanks for the advice.
#14
Quote by exylum
face ****ed with a gatling gun is the best song name ever


Haha, that was a tone test. The lyrics are even better!

Do you see the loads those guys blow?
THOSE GUYS BLOW
SUCK MAH DICK
What the **** haxxxxx

Yah, pretty serious song. I like my growls way more on that. I had to record the vocals on Narkissos with an SM57 instead of our usual compressor mic, which might be why they don't sound as good as they should. I depise the SM57.
#17
Quote by Clownmite
It sounds pretty good. The vocals are nice and the whole band sounds pretty tight. As a previous poster said, it does sound fairly metalcore-ish but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It reminded me a bit of The Black Dahlia Murder. Other than that, I don't have much more to say.

Crit mine? https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?p=18007969#post18007969


Yah, there is some metalcore influence, minus the boyish singing and such) on this song as Trivium happens to be one of our favorite bands (I know, so not tr00). Our other stuff leans more towards death metal, though.
#18
Sounded pretty good, liked the vocals, music was great but i thought the guitar tone was too crunchy, low gain.
Drums could be a tad louder as the guitars and vocals pretty much take up the whole mix.
#19
Quote by x Misanthropy x
Sounded pretty good, liked the vocals, music was great but i thought the guitar tone was too crunchy, low gain.
Drums could be a tad louder as the guitars and vocals pretty much take up the whole mix.


Thanks dude, I usually record with very low gain in order to improve the clarity, but I agree that I could've added a tad more.

Drums have been the largest issue since we are mixing them pre-software (we have an external mixer converting to stereo out into an audiobox) so after we record, we can't adjust the volumes of the individual drum mics. Because of this, when one mic is too quiet, we can't really do anything about it. Next song we do, we will be much more anal with the drum mix and probably make them louder, too.
#20
Thanks for the crit, helps a lot.

Anyways...

Very cool intro, like a lot of people said; your tone is amazing. Drums defiantly need to be louder in the mix. The guitar riffs are cool, although some don't seem as "Death-like" as they could be. I like the vocals, but needs a little more growling. I heard some in the beginning but not much after.

I liked the chorus, cool riff and vocals fit well to.

I thought the breakdown was a little dramatic. I think there needs to be a transition riff of some sort.

The solo sounded good guitarwise, but I think there could of been backing drums to most of the end part.

Overall, it was mixed well and sounds great. Defiantly would buy an album from you.

I live in Massachusetts as well.
Last edited by Ze_Metal at Jan 7, 2009,
#21
Quote by Ze_Metal
Thanks for the crit, helps a lot.

Anyways...

Very cool intro, like a lot of people said; your tone is amazing. Drums defiantly need to be louder in the mix. The guitar riffs are cool, although some don't seem as "Death-like" as they could be. I like the vocals, but needs a little more growling. I heard some in the beginning but not much after.

I liked the chorus, cool riff and vocals fit well to.

I thought the breakdown was a little dramatic. I think there needs to be a transition riff of some sort.

The solo sounded good guitarwise, but I think there could of been backing drums to most of the end part.

Overall, it was mixed well and sounds great. Defiantly would buy an album from you.

I live in Massachusetts as well.


Sick dude, what part of MA you from? You should come out to a show sometime.

As for more death-ish, yah. This is a slightly metal-core leaning song for us, not that we think that's a bad thing, most of our other stuff is closer to death or thrash or melodic death (mostly). Hopefully once we're done recording the other six or so songs we can get you a CD!
#22
i like it alot. on parts of the vocals it sounded like the singer from The Absence. which is a good thing. I'd get your CD, then put the windows down and blast it full volume. Little more distortion on the guitars would probably be a good thing though
"My jedi powers are far more superior than yours"
#23
Just got finished listening to The Fall of Narkissos. Wow. At first I was bit skeptical because the guitar tone was "different." I didn't like it very much but I must admit, it grew on me. I do not like your vocal styling, but for some reason it didn't bother me that much and I was able to focus more on the music. I love your guys' attitude about music. You have some awesome riffs, and as I said previously, I actually didn't really mind the singing; I think it *fit* very well. I was definitely headbanging the whole time. I loved the tempo changing, it was a bit unexpected, but when you know it's coming, I dunno, it's just awesome. Very cool band, I don't even have anything negative to say. If you guys had a tour going on that came near Florida I would definitely come to see you guys. Awesome stuff, keep rockin! \m/
#25
Quote by RabbidWolf
i like it alot. on parts of the vocals it sounded like the singer from The Absence. which is a good thing. I'd get your CD, then put the windows down and blast it full volume. Little more distortion on the guitars would probably be a good thing though


I've never heard The Absence, but I'll take your word that it's a good thing! Thanks a lot for the compliments, if and when we actually put this music on disc we'd be happy to send you a copy. Feel free to add us on myspace and we can keep you updated as we add more new songs.

Quote by MaskedMurader23
Just got finished listening to The Fall of Narkissos. Wow. At first I was bit skeptical because the guitar tone was "different." I didn't like it very much but I must admit, it grew on me. I do not like your vocal styling, but for some reason it didn't bother me that much and I was able to focus more on the music. I love your guys' attitude about music. You have some awesome riffs, and as I said previously, I actually didn't really mind the singing; I think it *fit* very well. I was definitely headbanging the whole time. I loved the tempo changing, it was a bit unexpected, but when you know it's coming, I dunno, it's just awesome. Very cool band, I don't even have anything negative to say. If you guys had a tour going on that came near Florida I would definitely come to see you guys. Awesome stuff, keep rockin! \m/


Thanks a lot dude. The guitar tone I choose is a little different than a lot of metal, as I put a lot of mids in it. I find that this allows the other instruments to have more "space" and it clears the whole mix up a ton, but I'm glad it grew on you. The vocal style isn't for everyone, as growling just isn't, but I appreciate that you can see it fits. Florida is a long way from here but if we ever toured, we'd be there. Thanks a ton, add us on myspace if you want to stay updated with us.

Quote by wasp825
WHOAH I like heavy but that is way too heavy


Hahah, I'll take that as a compliment. Thanks anyway dude.
#26
Quote by Gordita Supreme
Sick dude, what part of MA you from? You should come out to a show sometime.

As for more death-ish, yah. This is a slightly metal-core leaning song for us, not that we think that's a bad thing, most of our other stuff is closer to death or thrash or melodic death (mostly). Hopefully once we're done recording the other six or so songs we can get you a CD!



From Worcester. Yeah defiantly see if I can get out there some day.

I was thinking more along the lines of modern thrash/death metal. In which a lot of riffs are "metalcore-ish" but...awesome..er? Haha.

Yeah, a CD would be awesome.
#27
Quote by Ze_Metal
From Worcester. Yeah defiantly see if I can get out there some day.

I was thinking more along the lines of modern thrash/death metal. In which a lot of riffs are "metalcore-ish" but...awesome..er? Haha.

Yeah, a CD would be awesome.


Yah, we joke sometimes that it'd be hysterical if we became recognized as a metalcore band because of some of our riffs. We all just feel that metalcore (we don't like any metalcore bands with the exception of Trivium's first two CD's) has some neat ideas, just that they're done wrong hahah. A lot of the scalar riffs with chugging thrown in in metalcore gets used to the point of where its abused so it gets tiring, but using that style of riffs once in a while works quite well.

We have actually gigged in Worcester a LOT. We played the Palladium last year under a different line up and band name, but we get out to Worcester quite often, so add us online or I will send you a message on UG next time we get a show there. Bring all of your friends to kick some ass.
#28
Quote by Gordita Supreme
Yah, we joke sometimes that it'd be hysterical if we became recognized as a metalcore band because of some of our riffs. We all just feel that metalcore (we don't like any metalcore bands with the exception of Trivium's first two CD's) has some neat ideas, just that they're done wrong hahah. A lot of the scalar riffs with chugging thrown in in metalcore gets used to the point of where its abused so it gets tiring, but using that style of riffs once in a while works quite well.

We have actually gigged in Worcester a LOT. We played the Palladium last year under a different line up and band name, but we get out to Worcester quite often, so add us online or I will send you a message on UG next time we get a show there. Bring all of your friends to kick some ass.


Yeah, I think so to. Well...some metalcore has good idea at least. If you listen to Kreator, you'd be surprised how many "metalcore" riffs they have in their songs. But, executed better.

Sounds awesome, I'll need to catch one of your shows.
#29
Hey, thanks for the crit man!

I like the tone you're using on the rhythm guitars. For being downtuned they sound pretty good and it's easy to make out whats going on at all times. I really like the riffs used, especially the machine-gunning ones with fast picking. It reminded me a lot of Annihilator. The first solo was good, but I thought it could have been mixed a little higher, like the lead part at the end. As far as the vocals go, I think they sound fine really. What I mean by that is I've heard albums in this style where the vocals sound about the same. That said, I couldn't make out a single word. The aggression is there though and that's what makes it imo.

Overall good job on this one, you guys play well together.
#30
Wow, this is pretty awesome, the drums are a bit quiet though.
The vocals sound amazing, but a little thin.

Not sure what else to say, it sounds pretty pro
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#31
Quote by supralightning
Hey, thanks for the crit man!

I like the tone you're using on the rhythm guitars. For being downtuned they sound pretty good and it's easy to make out whats going on at all times. I really like the riffs used, especially the machine-gunning ones with fast picking. It reminded me a lot of Annihilator. The first solo was good, but I thought it could have been mixed a little higher, like the lead part at the end. As far as the vocals go, I think they sound fine really. What I mean by that is I've heard albums in this style where the vocals sound about the same. That said, I couldn't make out a single word. The aggression is there though and that's what makes it imo.

Overall good job on this one, you guys play well together.


The guitars are only tuned to drop D, so they aren't downtuned too much, but thanks. I know it's tough to understand the vocals sometimes, haha, but thanks anyway.

Quote by FNAFJ
Wow, this is pretty awesome, the drums are a bit quiet though.
The vocals sound amazing, but a little thin.

Not sure what else to say, it sounds pretty pro


We might do another mix with the drums slightly louder, as this is still a common complaint. Thanks for the compliment on the vocals.
#32
i like the guitar tone alot. drums sound good. i think the bass could be more prominant. i'm not really a fan of growly vocals, so i can't really say anything positive about that them other that that they sound...metally. i thought the writing in this song was really impressive. you have alot of different riffs, show in lot of different techniques. that said, i think you might cut down on tremolo picking...it gets a bit tiring. sounds good. i love "chorus"
thanks for the crit.
Too cool for a signature.