#1
am i right in saying that "i could have lied" by the chili peppers is in g major, considering all the chords except the Em fit in the scale, and johns solo is based on the Em pentatonic which is the relative minor of g major ?
GEAR

customised westfield strat soon to be HH
MIJ 68'reissue strat from 1996

bunch of boss pedals
#3
E minor IS in the key of G major.

If he solos in E minor pentatonic, it's in the key of E minor.


I'd go out on a limb to say the whole song is in E minor


I doubt it was in G major and modulated to E minor just for the solo. You said there are E minor chords in the song so I bet it's all E minor.
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”


-Max Planck

☮∞☯♥
#4
two problems:

Em does fit into the key of G

Minor keys do not have a relative minor, so the term isn't accurate there. One can solo in Em over a G progression if one knows what one is doing, though.
#5
ahh sorry i see where i went wrong there, thanks anyway
GEAR

customised westfield strat soon to be HH
MIJ 68'reissue strat from 1996

bunch of boss pedals
#6
Quote by frigginjerk
two problems:

Em does fit into the key of G

Minor keys do not have a relative minor, so the term isn't accurate there. One can solo in Em over a G progression if one knows what one is doing, though.
Shut the hell up with your holier than thou attitude. You're wrong anyways.


for the bold part: He said E minor was the relative minor of G major. He's right.

underlined part: No you can't. If it's in E minor, it's in E minor / if it's in G major, it's in G major.


They have the same notes but they resolve to different places (that's why root notes exist!). They have different intervals too.


Quote by higgy30
ahh sorry i see where i went wrong there, thanks anyway
I hope this is in response to my post.

If you're just learning how to find keys and/or are still new to it, you're doing good then. It's a simple mistake.

Edit: Don't forget: Always figure out where it resolves after assigning it to a major scale.
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”


-Max Planck

☮∞☯♥
Last edited by metal4all at Jan 1, 2009,
#8
Quote by Declan87
Its in B Minor though isnt it? The verses and the first solo are anyway
Is it?

I was taking TS's word. I didn't look at the song.


*searches*
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”


-Max Planck

☮∞☯♥
#9
Quote by Declan87
Its in B Minor though isnt it? The verses and the first solo are anyway
Sorry for double post but I needed to to show a new, important post.

Hell nah, it's definitely E minor from looking at it. Just F# in there and the solo just screams E minor pentatonic. Classic chili solo. It even ends on E minor (see where I was talking about resolution?). The last chord of the song doesn't always mean the key though.

It stresses the B note a lot so I can (very loosely) sorta get where you got B minor from. B minor would mean Db and I only saw 1 which was a hammer on to D natural.


Edit: There are also C chords for rhythm.
Edit2: below, no problem
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”


-Max Planck

☮∞☯♥
Last edited by metal4all at Jan 1, 2009,
#10
thanks for the help dude, im starting to get to grips with this stuff now
GEAR

customised westfield strat soon to be HH
MIJ 68'reissue strat from 1996

bunch of boss pedals
#11
Quote by metal4all
Sorry for double post but I needed to to show a new, important post.

Hell nah, it's definitely E minor from looking at it. Just F# in there and the solo just screams E minor pentatonic. Classic chili solo. It even ends on E minor (see where I was talking about resolution?). The last chord of the song doesn't always mean the key though.

It stresses the B note a lot so I can (very loosely) sorta get where you got B minor from. B minor would mean Db and I only saw 1 which was a hammer on to D natural.


Edit: There are also C chords for rhythm.
Edit2: below, no problem

Bm doesn't mean Db

And well, whenever I play along to it I hear Bm. I'm sorta confused now:P
#12
Quote by Declan87
Bm doesn't mean Db

And well, whenever I play along to it I hear Bm. I'm sorta confused now:P
I meant C#, sorry. You probably hear Bm because it's the only thing in B closest to E minor (number of sharps, wise) and the song has that B power chord arpeggio type-a dealie in there a lot.

But yeah, my point still stands. The song has a bunch of C major chords when the key of B minor would suggest C#dim.
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”


-Max Planck

☮∞☯♥
#13
Quote by metal4all
Shut the hell up with your holier than thou attitude. You're wrong anyways.


for the bold part: He said E minor was the relative minor of G major. He's right.

underlined part: No you can't. If it's in E minor, it's in E minor / if it's in G major, it's in G major.


i admit i got it backwards. i was thinking of going from Emaj to Gmin, not the other way around. it was new years last night, and i got in at about 7:30 in the morning.

but an E minor scale and a G major scale contain all the same notes. you most certainly could play it over a G progression and it would sound fine. that's what a relative minor is for, numbnuts, and that's why it works in that chili peppers song. if the notes are the same, all he has to do is play the minor scale pattern and it'll sound bit different than if he was starting each solo phrase on the G rather than on or in direct relation to the E. it's just nomenclature, but some players would find it helpful to think of it as playing a minor scale over the major progression, rather than thinking of playing a G major scale starting on the E.

also, **** you for your snippy little comment about me thinking i'm so great... all i did was make an innocent typo and still tried to help the kid. go ahead and get the last word on this, i dont' really care. But i don't think my humble little post was "holier than thou," and you should go suck a railroad spike for flaming people needlessly.
Last edited by frigginjerk at Jan 1, 2009,
#14
Quote by frigginjerk
i admit i got it backwards. i was thinking of going from Emaj to Gmin, not the other way around. it was new years last night, and i got in at about 7:30 in the morning.

but an E minor scale and a G major scale contain all the same notes. you most certainly could play it over a G progression and it would sound fine. that's what a relative minor is for, numbnuts, and that's why it works in that chili peppers song. if the notes are the same, all he has to do is play the minor scale pattern and it'll sound bit different than if he was starting each solo phrase on the G rather than on or in direct relation to the E. it's just nomenclature, but some players would find it helpful to think of it as playing a minor scale over the major progression, rather than thinking of playing a G major scale starting on the E.

also, **** you for your snippy little comment about me thinking i'm so great... all i did was make an innocent typo and still tried to help the kid. go ahead and get the last word on this, i dont' really care. But i don't think my humble little post was "holier than thou," and you should go suck a railroad spike for flaming people needlessly.
You said you could solo in G major with the E minor scale "if one knows what he's doing". If that's not an arrogant attitude, I don't know what is. I only gave you shit because I don't like it when people patronize others that are learning (especially when they speak out of their ass).

Also, ask any MTer that knows their shit and they'll back up my statements from earlier. Get over it. I'm right.

For future reference, GTFO of my forum if you're going to be a dick when you're wrong. You could atleast admit it (then I'd forgive you).
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”


-Max Planck

☮∞☯♥
#15
Quote by metal4all
You said you could solo in G major with the E minor scale "if one knows what he's doing". If that's not an arrogant attitude, I don't know what is. I only gave you shit because I don't like it when people patronize others that are learning (especially when they speak out of their ass).

Also, ask any MTer that knows their shit and they'll back up my statements from earlier. Get over it. I'm right.

For future reference, GTFO of my forum if you're going to be a dick when you're wrong. You could atleast admit it (then I'd forgive you).


lol... i was already over it... like i said, i know i was wrong... i was drunk... anyways, this is so not YOUR forum, young'un. I've been on this forum longer than you, and been playing guitar longer than you... and who's being holier than who now... "gtfo of MY forum..." gimme a ****in break. seeya around, dude.
#16
Quote by frigginjerk
lol... i was already over it... like i said, i know i was wrong... i was drunk... anyways, this is so not YOUR forum, young'un. I've been on this forum longer than you, and been playing guitar longer than you... and who's being holier than who now... "gtfo of MY forum..." gimme a ****in break. seeya around, dude.
You admitted to being wrong about the first part, not the second. You still haven't admitted that you can't solo with E min if the song's in G major.

I don't give a crap how long you've been on the forum or how long you've been playing guitar. If you're going to get drunk, go on here, spread misinformation, and give shit to someone that's correcting you and not admit fault, then you're not closer to MT than I am. I like this forum because most of the people like you stay out.

I'm 6 years younger than you yet I know when to stop making an ass out of myself.
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”


-Max Planck

☮∞☯♥
#17
Quote by metal4all
You admitted to being wrong about the first part, not the second. You still haven't admitted that you can't solo with E min if the song's in G major.

I don't give a crap how long you've been on the forum or how long you've been playing guitar. If you're going to get drunk, go on here, spread misinformation, and give shit to someone that's correcting you and not admit fault, then you're not closer to MT than I am. I like this forum because most of the people like you stay out.

I'm 6 years younger than you yet I know when to stop making an ass out of myself.


- the notes are the same... it would work. not over every chord, not in every song, but over some chords, and in some songs. that's why one must know what one is doing if you're going to be playing minor patterns over a relative key... you can argue that one till you're blue in the face, but you won't be right OR wrong. the point of music theory is that it helps you know how to break or bend the "rules." It's probable that you could just call it a G major solo over a G major progression, but if some of the licks are best thought of as minor (for memorization purposes, or even just because of the leading note), then you can call it E minor - CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT.

let's just leave it alone, huh? the thread is dead, it's down to just us being dicks to each other.

and on top of that. we've not really helped the TS... why?

i just looked at the official score of the song he asked about, and it's in freaking Bm, with a chorus in E min, and a solo in Bm... according to the sheet music, anyways. so we aren't even really discussing relative minors, OR soloing with a minor key over a major progression.

so, let's just play nice huh? i know i already said i'd give you the last word, but now i'm really gonna do it. say your peace, and stay out of my way. have a good life.
Last edited by frigginjerk at Jan 2, 2009,
#18
Quote by frigginjerk
- the notes are the same... it would work. not over every chord, not in every song, but over some chords, and in some songs. that's why one must know what one is doing if you're going to be playing minor patterns over a relative key... you can argue that one till you're blue in the face, but you won't be right OR wrong. i'm really gonna do it. say your peace, and stay out of my way. have a good life.


You can't play Em over a G major progression, I don't care how close it is to its relative major, thats not how it works. Playing an E minor pattern over G major doesn't make it E minor either, it makes you without knowledge of the fretboard.
#19
Quote by higgy30
am i right in saying that "i could have lied" by the chili peppers is in g major, considering all the chords except the Em fit in the scale, and johns solo is based on the Em pentatonic which is the relative minor of g major ?


well, TS, after all that arguing, here's what i can tell you:

that song is in B minor, which contains a G major chord. When it switches to the chorus, the key becomes E minor, another key with a G major chord. The solo is in B minor, played over the B minor progression.

the chorus is a little ambigious in terms of key... it's got G, C and D major, but it begins on an E minor, suggesting that the key should be read and understood as E minor. There is no soloing over the chorus, so it's kind of a moot point anyways.

the solo has no weird key-mixing business at all... just Bm licks over the Bm progression.

hope that helps.
#20
Quote by blueriver
You can't play Em over a G major progression, I don't care how close it is to its relative major, thats not how it works. Playing an E minor pattern over G major doesn't make it E minor either, it makes you without knowledge of the fretboard.


sigh... i'm not going over this too many more times...

certain tiny little individual strings of notes might be best memorized in the context of a minor scale. in some cases, you can use a lick that you know as minor and apply it, in a major fashion, to a major progression. You probably wouldn't call it a minor scale in the big picture, but for the lick itself, the player might say "hey, i know this lick that i like to play in E minor, let's see if those notes work specifically in this one situation." because the notes are the same, it can work once in a while. i'm talking purely about memorized finger patterns here, not leading tones, not the overall scale.

as i say, it's context and how the player thinks. i would never recommend that someone just plays a totally different key over a progression. i just mean that you can't look at an 2 groups of the same notes in a different order and draw lines in the sand as to how you can choose them.

so, once again: i'm talking about the nitty-gritty, one-bar-at-a-time breakdown of licks where a few notes might be something that "looks" minor, and the player might associate that with a minor key if that's how he remembers finger patterns. AT NO POINT AM I ADVOCATING THE USE OF PURE E MINOR LICKS PLAYED CONTINUOUSLY OVER A G CHORD.

this whole crap got blown out of proportion, probably because someone read my username and assumed i'm here to fight. for the love of god, let's just let it be, folks.

here's what i'm trying to say:

E minor and G major both contain the same notes: E F# G A B C D.

if you arrange those notes in an E minor scale pattern, reading lowest note to highest, left to right, you get:



e|-----------------------------------
b|-----------------------------------
g|---------------7-9-11--------------
d|--------7-9-10---------------------
a|-7-9-10----------------------------
E|-----------------------------------



and so on. IF YOU KNOW WHERE THE G NOTE IS, you can use that note as your root, or at least as somewhat of an anchor, and make licks using this minor scale fingering pattern, but you'd still be playing in G major, as long as your root note is G.

so i could play:



e|-----------------------------------
b|-----------------------------------
g|-----------------------------
d|-----9-10----9-7-9------------------
a|--10------10-------10---------------
E|-----------------------------------



or whatever. i made that up using the patterns i know from E minor, but being fully aware that my riff starts and ends on G. in the big picture, you'd call it a G major lick, but the pattern i had in mind was of a minor scale.

now everyone shut up, lol.

and one more time, for the TS's benefit: I Could Have Lied is in Bm for the verse and solo. The chorus starts on Em, but contains the G C and D chords that are also an option in G major. Since the part begins on Em, i am tempted to call it Em, not G.
Last edited by frigginjerk at Jan 2, 2009,