#1
So i'm looking to buy a new half stack.

I wanna spend $800 or less.

I know some people are going to complain, "well, a combo could be so much better for that price", so if the combos really that good then sure, post it.

If you find a separate head and cabinet, then thats fine

Also the type of artists that im looking to sound like are avenged sevenfold, three days grace, and coheed & cambria. So in other words, good distortion and gain with the ability for it to pump out solos and things like that.

Also if possible, i'd love it to be tube, but no complaints if you find a good solid state amp.
#2
Check out some bugera amps, buy one that you can play and if applicable, buy an extended warrenty, just to be safe otherwise they're better than VK's imo.

Used 5150 will be suggested, try it out before you buy
#3
i always recommended a b-52 at100

really versatile amp
Call me Justyn

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#5
Do you really need a halfstack? There are no decent halfstacks for $800 and a combo can be just as good or better.
I leik music
#6
Yeah, not much going on in the halfstack department for that.

Not unless you want to spend most of that on the head, and save more for a good 2x12" cab.
I'd say a Peavey JSX head could be had for about 600-700 bucks. Save up some more cash for an Avatar 2x12".

Otherwise....
At the lower end of your budget, you have the:
Randall RG50TC - 600-ish now?
Line 6 Flextone III - 500 or something brand new. can find them for around 300 used.
B-52 AT112 - around 400.

Above that, there's...
a used Mesa F-30
a used Mesa F-50
a used Mesa DC-5
a used Peavey XXX
a used Peavey JSX combo (800-900, I think?)

off the top of my head.

Never tried Bugeras, but they're in your price range.
#8
The only reason that i wanted a halfstack was in order to compete with another guitarist in my band.

I know though that combos can get just as loud, so whats the best combo amp that sounds good and can compete with the halfstack? (Its a Marshall MG100 Head and MG412A Cabinet)
John Frusciante
Slash
Jeff Beck
Matt Bellamy
Jack White

HT-5 Owners Thread

Owner of an 1/4 watt custom combo.

Quote by Garou1911
^This man speaks the language of win.


Donate to my cause
#9
Almost any tube combo could compete with the marshal mg halfstack. Try a Traynor YCV40 or YCV50BLUE
I leik music
Last edited by col50 at Jan 4, 2009,
#10
Quote by k7apex
The only reason that i wanted a halfstack was in order to compete with another guitarist in my band.

I know though that combos can get just as loud, so whats the best combo amp that sounds good and can compete with the halfstack? (Its a Marshall MG100 Head and MG412A Cabinet)


the b-52 at212 will own that mg in every aspect

he has a GARBAGE amp

anything tube will blow him out the water

and if you want you can always get a 2x12 later on
Call me Justyn

╠═══════╬═══════╣
τλε τρπ βπστλεπλσσδ
╠═══════╬═══════╣
#11
Quote by k7apex
The only reason that i wanted a halfstack was in order to compete with another guitarist in my band.

I know though that combos can get just as loud, so whats the best combo amp that sounds good and can compete with the halfstack? (Its a Marshall MG100 Head and MG412A Cabinet)

My 40 watt tube combo competes with my guitarist's 100W tube halfstack just fine.
It's not like 100W is twice as loud as 40W....
#12
Quote by col50
Almost any tube combo could compete with the marshal mg halfstack. Try a Traynor YCV40 or YCV50BLUE

He plays metal. Those arent really metal voiced, if I remember correctly.
#13
Quote by col50
Do you really need a halfstack? There are no decent halfstacks for $800 and a combo can be just as good or better.


i mean my cab cost 800 lol

get a combo

07 Fender American Deluxe Strat
07 Fender Custom Telecaster
09 Seymour Duncan Pickup Booster
09 Fulltone OCD V.4
10 Ibanez WH-10 V.2
09 Splawn SuperStock
10 Jet City JCA-20
97 Fender Hot Rod Deluxe

Yeh the SICK! bit sounds a bit stupid.

#14
Also just wondering, is it ever possible to in the future add a cabinet to a combo in order to make it louder, if ever needed.
John Frusciante
Slash
Jeff Beck
Matt Bellamy
Jack White

HT-5 Owners Thread

Owner of an 1/4 watt custom combo.

Quote by Garou1911
^This man speaks the language of win.


Donate to my cause
#15
^adding speakers doesn't increase the volume that much. It just increases the amount of air being pushed, or helps add some more fullness, or helps direct it more. Doubling the amount of speakers will only increase the perceived volume by 3dB.

Honestly, not a big deal, once you start gigging. 90% of places you play at WILL have their own PA.

But yes, many combos, though not all, will have a cab extension jack.
Last edited by forsaknazrael at Jan 4, 2009,
#16
Quote by jarudy
He plays metal. Those arent really metal voiced, if I remember correctly.

The YCV50 can get great sounding gain. And he doesn't play metal, he plays avenged sevenfold, three days grace, and coheed & cambria
I leik music
#17
Quote by k7apex
So i'm looking to buy a new half stack.

I wanna spend $800 or less.

I know some people are going to complain, "well, a combo could be so much better for that price", so if the combos really that good then sure, post it.

If you find a separate head and cabinet, then thats fine

Also the type of artists that im looking to sound like are avenged sevenfold, three days grace, and coheed & cambria. So in other words, good distortion and gain with the ability for it to pump out solos and things like that.

Also if possible, i'd love it to be tube, but no complaints if you find a good solid state amp.


I just recently picked up a Marshall JCM2000 Half stack for $300. There are deals to be found.
#18
Quote by forsaknazrael
^adding speakers doesn't increase the volume that much. It just increases the amount of air being pushed, or helps add some more fullness, or helps direct it more. Doubling the amount of speakers will only increase the perceived volume by 3dB.

Honestly, not a big deal, once you start gigging. 90% of places you play at WILL have their own PA.

But yes, many combos, though not all, will have a cab extension jack.


Actually, the real issue is sound pressure level (SPL) that increases perceived volume using mulitple amps (which is really just multiple speakers). 4 amps driving 4 speakers will be a bit more efficient than 1 amp driving 4 speakers, but the much bigger effect is the 4 speakers, not the amps. Assuming a 100 dB 1w/1m speaker, a 15w amp and a listening position 10' in front of the amp, here's your SPL comparisons;

1 speaker SPL of 102.1 dB
2 speakers SPL of 105.1 dB
3 speakers SPL of 106.8 dB
4 speakers SPL of 108.1 dB

given that 3 dB is the lowest increase the human ear can detect, going from 1 speaker to 2 (of same size and efficiencey) gives you the "magic" 3dB increase. A 3rd speaker doesn't do that much, but the 4th gives you the nex "magic" 3dB increase (105 to 108)

Here's an good summary of the effect of increased speaker surface area. Again, with multiple amps of the same size with same speaker etc., all you are essentially doing is running a multiple speaker cabinet (i.e., you'd get just about all the same volume effect by running one amp into a 2x12 or 4x12 cabinet).

Summary (from http://www.musiccenters.com/vol.html):
Speaker surface area is one factor that effects volume. This concept is not
as simple as it first appears. If we double the surface area we will increase the SPL by 3dB. Here is an example. If you have a 50 watt amp with one 12" speaker and you add another 12" speaker you will get the magic 3dB increase. You would have the same SPL as a 100 watt amp with one Wave Forms12" speaker. To get the next 3dB increase we need to double the surface area again so we would need four 12" speakers. Having 4 speakers will give us a 6dB increase in SPL compared to 1 speaker. Sounds like the same system as the power ratio above doesn't it. Here is were the complex part comes in. If we double the 4 speakers to 8 speakers you would think that there would be a 9dB increase in SPL compared to one speaker, right? Nope. What we get is only a 6dB increase compared to one speaker. Huh? We have now introduced a new factor to this equation...Phase Cancellation. (fig C) In short the distance between the speakers causes the sound to reach your ears, from some of the speakers, at a different time . This has the effect of canceling some of the sound. So...More speakers are better up to a point.

Hope that helps clear it up a bit for you.
#19
You don't need the stack - 40 watts of tube power will be just as loud (if not louder), and anything you buy will destroy the MG tonally.

I'd suggest the Bugera 333 or 333Xl. Maybe you could find a used Peavey JSX if you save a bit more.
~3.6 billion years of evolutionary progress have led to this post~
#20
Quote by forsaknazrael
^adding speakers doesn't increase the volume that much. It just increases the amount of air being pushed, or helps add some more fullness, or helps direct it more. Doubling the amount of speakers will only increase the perceived volume by 3dB.

Honestly, not a big deal, once you start gigging. 90% of places you play at WILL have their own PA.

But yes, many combos, though not all, will have a cab extension jack.

K, thanx for the advice.

I think i found a good deal for a b-52 halfstack used for $500. It may be overkill, but from what i've heard, its the best deal that i can find and use to its full extent
John Frusciante
Slash
Jeff Beck
Matt Bellamy
Jack White

HT-5 Owners Thread

Owner of an 1/4 watt custom combo.

Quote by Garou1911
^This man speaks the language of win.


Donate to my cause
#21
Quote by k7apex
K, thanx for the advice.

I think i found a good deal for a b-52 halfstack used for $500. It may be overkill, but from what i've heard, its the best deal that i can find and use to its full extent


It's better to have more and NOT need it-- than it is to NEED more and NOT have it.
#22
Quote by zachman5150
Actually, the real issue is sound pressure level (SPL) that increases perceived volume using mulitple amps (which is really just multiple speakers). 4 amps driving 4 speakers will be a bit more efficient than 1 amp driving 4 speakers, but the much bigger effect is the 4 speakers, not the amps. Assuming a 100 dB 1w/1m speaker, a 15w amp and a listening position 10' in front of the amp, here's your SPL comparisons;

1 speaker SPL of 102.1 dB
2 speakers SPL of 105.1 dB
3 speakers SPL of 106.8 dB
4 speakers SPL of 108.1 dB

given that 3 dB is the lowest increase the human ear can detect, going from 1 speaker to 2 (of same size and efficiencey) gives you the "magic" 3dB increase. A 3rd speaker doesn't do that much, but the 4th gives you the nex "magic" 3dB increase (105 to 108)

Here's an good summary of the effect of increased speaker surface area. Again, with multiple amps of the same size with same speaker etc., all you are essentially doing is running a multiple speaker cabinet (i.e., you'd get just about all the same volume effect by running one amp into a 2x12 or 4x12 cabinet).

Summary (from http://www.musiccenters.com/vol.html):
Speaker surface area is one factor that effects volume. This concept is not
as simple as it first appears. If we double the surface area we will increase the SPL by 3dB. Here is an example. If you have a 50 watt amp with one 12" speaker and you add another 12" speaker you will get the magic 3dB increase. You would have the same SPL as a 100 watt amp with one Wave Forms12" speaker. To get the next 3dB increase we need to double the surface area again so we would need four 12" speakers. Having 4 speakers will give us a 6dB increase in SPL compared to 1 speaker. Sounds like the same system as the power ratio above doesn't it. Here is were the complex part comes in. If we double the 4 speakers to 8 speakers you would think that there would be a 9dB increase in SPL compared to one speaker, right? Nope. What we get is only a 6dB increase compared to one speaker. Huh? We have now introduced a new factor to this equation...Phase Cancellation. (fig C) In short the distance between the speakers causes the sound to reach your ears, from some of the speakers, at a different time . This has the effect of canceling some of the sound. So...More speakers are better up to a point.

Hope that helps clear it up a bit for you.

Didn't need a rundown with a lot of jargon. I know how it works. All the jargon you typed? Basically equates into what I typed. And that 3dB increase isn't really all that significant, not when you play really loud. That's what I was implying.

You're also forgetting another factor in the percieved volume level, anyway: where their mids knob is. Scoop the mids, and suddenly one of them doesn't pop through the mix as much.
#23
Quote by forsaknazrael
Didn't need a rundown with a lot of jargon. I know how it works. All the jargon you typed? Basically equates into what I typed. And that 3dB increase isn't really all that significant, not when you play really loud. That's what I was implying.

You're also forgetting another factor in the percieved volume level, anyway: where their mids knob is. Scoop the mids, and suddenly one of them doesn't pop through the mix as much.


I didn't type that stuff for you... hehehehe No... I typed it, so that people that were interested in the truth, would have it.

and... +3dB addition is with only 1 speaker added. Using a 4x12 compared to a 1x12 is a +6dB increase, which is significant in BOTH perceived volume and ACTUAL verifiable increases in SPL/volume.

I know how it works too-- It seems better than you.

The analogy of not popping through the mix, doesn't negate anything that I wrote at all, and using that scooped mids analogy of yours-- with the SAME settings dialed in on the amp, a 4x12 run by that amp will have a +6dB increase over a 1x12. STILL louder You see..... I didn't forget ANYTHING...
Last edited by zachman5150 at Jan 4, 2009,
#24
Quote by zachman5150
and... +3dB addition is with only 1 speaker added.

Right, the number of speakers is doubled...
Quote by zachman5150
Using a 4x12 compared to a 1x12 is a +6dB increase, which is significant in BOTH perceived volume and ACTUAL verifiable increases in SPL/volume.

Right, the number of speakers is again doubled....

Don't see your point. I did say this, you know.

Quote by zachman5150
which is significant in BOTH perceived volume and ACTUAL verifiable increases in SPL/volume.

Not really, when you consider that people already run guitars really loud. This is why me 2x10" tube combo amp will keep up with my co-guitarist's 100W tube halfstack.

Quote by zachman5150
The analogy of not popping through the mix, doesn't negate anything that I wrote at all, and using that scooped mids analogy of yours-- with the SAME settings dialed in on the amp, a 4x12 run by that amp will have a +6dB increase over a 1x12. STILL louder You see..... I didn't forget ANYTHING...
Never said it negated it. Please read.
Last edited by forsaknazrael at Jan 4, 2009,
#25
Quote by forsaknazrael
Right, the number of speakers is doubled...

Right, the number of speakers is again doubled....

Don't see your point.



Actually it's not about the number of speakers being doubled, though I am aware of your saying it-- It's about the amount of speaker surface area being increased, I was just correcting you, and being specific. (Perhaps now you see the point?)


Quote by forsaknazrael
I did say this, you know.


Actually, no you didn't. You stopped at 3db for one additional speaker, and said that wasn't significant. You also left out that a +6dB increase is significant.


Quote by forsaknazrael
Not really, when you consider that people already run guitars really loud. This is why me 2x10" tube combo amp will keep up with my co-guitarist's 100W tube halfstack.


Ummm okay... your point?

Quote by forsaknazrael
Never said it negated it. Please read.


It appears that you are trying school me. No need, I assure you I'm not some 10-20 y.o. noob, I have a Bachelors degree in Electronic Engineering, and have been playing, designing and building guitar rigs, and running sound for a long time. I was just trying to rectify some incomplete info on the subject.
Last edited by zachman5150 at Jan 4, 2009,
#26
Well of course surface area is being doubled. I would think that's implied when you double the amount of speakers....

And I'm not trying to school you. On the internet, no one ever wins.

I never said any of your information was incorrect - Again, read. But my point being that all that jargon - meaningless to the average guitarist.

The bottom line:
Adding an extension cab won't increase your volume by a significant amount. Your other guitarist drowning you out can be caused by reasons other than the power of your amplifier, or the number of speakers.

That's what people want to hear. I didn't hear anyone asking, "Why is that? Can someone give me all the technical details?"

EDIT:
Quote by zachman5150
Actually, no you didn't. You stopped at 3db for one additional speaker, and said that wasn't significant. You also left out that a +6dB increase is significant.

No, I didn't.
My EXACT words were "Doubling the amount of speakers will only increase the perceived volume by 3dB."
Meaning, when you take that second number, and double it again, it will be a 6dB increase.
Again, please read.
Last edited by forsaknazrael at Jan 4, 2009,
#27
Okay guys, enough of the arguing in some guys thread. You can prove your immense knowledge in another thread.
#28
Quote by zachman5150
It's better to have more and NOT need it-- than it is to NEED more and NOT have it.


Yah, try saying that when you've got to load/unload the bloody thing from a van twenty times a week...


So far, I reckon forsaknazrael's the only one with any decent suggestions:

a used Mesa F-30
a used Mesa F-50
a used Mesa DC-5
a used Peavey XXX
a used Peavey JSX combo (800-900, I think?)
You might also find a Mesa MKIII in your range, with a bit of hunting.


To be honest though, you could probably challenge your mate's Marshall halfstack with one of these:

#29
Quote by kyle62
Yah, try saying that when you've got to load/unload the bloody thing from a van twenty times a week...


So far, I reckon forsaknazrael's the only one with any decent suggestions:

You might also find a Mesa MKIII in your range, with a bit of hunting.


To be honest though, you could probably challenge your mate's Marshall halfstack with one of these:




I spoke up, because I know what the view- from the top of Tone mountain, is:

My rig:












There's more... but I never did find it to be insane, to get in/out of the transport vehicle, everything has casters... and NO, I won't do stairs with it.
#32
Quote by zachman5150
I spoke up, because I know what the view- from the top of Tone mountain, is:

My rig:

[acres of uneccessary but cool gear]

There's more... but I never did find it to be insane, to get in/out of the transport vehicle, everything has casters... and NO, I won't do stairs with it.


Nice rig, you tour much? I've got such bad neck problems I probably couldn't even lift that MIDI controller, but that's what friends and roadies are for I suppose.
As it is I'm quite happy having scaled back to a little 1x12, but I wouldn't mind a Bonamassa-esque quad-amp setup if it was called for... maybe one day.

How the hell did you manage to get a JCM2000 for $300, dare I ask? Mob connections?
#33
Mad rig. Loving that Mojave.

Do you post on Musicians Friend? I've seen that rig somewhere else before.
#34
Quote by kyle62
Nice rig, you tour much? I've got such bad neck problems I probably couldn't even lift that MIDI controller, but that's what friends and roadies are for I suppose.
As it is I'm quite happy having scaled back to a little 1x12, but I wouldn't mind a Bonamassa-esque quad-amp setup if it was called for... maybe one day.

How the hell did you manage to get a JCM2000 for $300, dare I ask? Mob connections?


Thanks... I used to tour, but mostly use the big rig for studio session work, nowadays.

I mostly use a smaller setup for small to medium sized gigs. Usually a Mesa/Boogie MKIII Simul-Class 1x12 combo, or a 1x12 cab or 2 and a Boogie MKIII Coliseum head (Both heavy unfortunately), but they do sound great.

The Marshall deal was almost as good a deal as the '65 Fender Super Reverb I got for FREE... I LOVE those kind of deals...
#35
Quote by BGSM
Mad rig. Loving that Mojave.

Do you post on Musicians Friend? I've seen that rig somewhere else before.


Thanks... I LOVE the Mojave too. GREAT amps.

No, I don't post on musicians friend... But I have posted on other forums.