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#1
Hello wonderful pit-dwellers.

My dad and I were discussing whether or not torture should be used by the police or governments to gain information from someone. He said yes in all situations (mainly because he had had a few drinks) but I wasn't sure. I think it's justified in some situations for example, if a detainee is proven to have terrorist connections, or if they are caught in the act...but reasonable evidence is needed imo because people have the right to a fair trial.

So what does the pit think? can torture of suspects be justified?
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#5
Uh.. no. It's called human rights.
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#7
yes. it most certainly can be justified. seriously, would you steal or murder if you knew that you could be tortured for your crimes / for information about the crimes you committed. i for one believe in torture for all felonies. as long as torture is not used for misdemeanors then i'm happy.
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#9
Whether if it's morally wrong is subjective as morals are subjective too.

I think it's never acceptable, though.
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#10
Only to rapists.

For information,no. I'd lie my ass off if i was being tortured
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#11
Watch "Taxi to the Dark Side".

^And to the guy who wants torture for all felonies, go **** yourself if you honestly believe the justice system is so perfect that we can justify torturing people.
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Last edited by CHIEF-CHEESE at Jan 4, 2009,
#12
Quote by vmanoman
yes. it most certainly can be justified. seriously, would you steal or murder if you knew that you could be tortured for your crimes / for information about the crimes you committed. i for one believe in torture for all felonies. as long as torture is not used for misdemeanors then i'm happy.


they tried that approach for several hundred years through the medieval and middle ages, it didn't work.

Quote by happytimeharry
The only thing you're going to get from torturing someone is false information.


This too.
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#13
Generally speaking, absolutely not.

However, though I can't find the quote at the mo, a US judge has said that it would be lawful to use torture to find the whereabouts of a nuclear bomb about to go off on Time Square; or at least more lawful than allowing it to go off.

That's food for thought at least. Utilitarian and quite nasty but worth thinking about.

Quote by vmanoman
yes. it most certainly can be justified. seriously, would you steal or murder if you knew that you could be tortured for your crimes / for information about the crimes you committed. i for one believe in torture for all felonies. as long as torture is not used for misdemeanors then i'm happy.


You ever heard of the Spanish Inquisition? And no, for once I'm not making a Monty Python joke.

Here's a hint: doesn't work because all you get is a load of false confessions. You end up in more of a mess than before.
Last edited by webbtje at Jan 4, 2009,
#15
Quote by vmanoman
yes. it most certainly can be justified. seriously, would you steal or murder if you knew that you could be tortured for your crimes / for information about the crimes you committed. i for one believe in torture for all felonies. as long as torture is not used for misdemeanors then i'm happy.

You're right. Actually, we should also include torture for increasing our knowledge on the way genetics works.
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#16
drunk people don't lie, Your father is right.
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#17
It's not even a question of morality. If you tortured someone enough they will tell you exactly what you want to hear, whether its factual or not.

Torture produces incredibly unreliable evidence.
#18
never
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#19
Nah man, if i was being tortured for information i'd make **** up for them to stop torturing me.

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#20
Quote by vmanoman
yes. it most certainly can be justified. seriously, would you steal or murder if you knew that you could be tortured for your crimes / for information about the crimes you committed. i for one believe in torture for all felonies. as long as torture is not used for misdemeanors then i'm happy.


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#21
Quote by webbtje
Generally speaking, absolutely not.

However, though I can't find the quote at the mo, a US judge has said that it would be lawful to use torture to find the whereabouts of a nuclear bomb about to go off on Time Square; or at least more lawful than allowing it to go off.

That's food for thought at least. Utilitarian and quite nasty but worth thinking about.



This is exactly what i was thinking. Surely it's better to torture the information out of someone, than let a bomb go off which will kill thousands. I guess you just have to be damn sure the suspect know something useful..
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^ you are wise


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There's been sooo many threads done on this; I don't even wanna hear that you used the searchbar. Staring at it and giggling does not count.
The worlds fu cked up and we lit the fuse, its all used up what you gonna do?
#22
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All is lost, the republicans have figured out how to use computers, run for the hills!!!!

+1
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Woman tone, eh?

Set treble to PUT THE TOILET SEAT DOWN WHEN YOU'RE DONE
Mids to YOU'RE DRIVING TOO FAST
Bass to WHAT DO YOU MEAN, "MAKE ME A SANDWICH"?
Gain to NOT TONIGHT, I HAVE A HEADACHE.

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#23
Some people like to be tortured....
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#24
Quote by DaveyAreAwesome
Torture is notorious for its ability to extract false information.

so, ironically, is not torturing
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#25
Quote by happytimeharry
The only thing you're going to get from torturing someone is false information.

this. and post traumatic stress/ other mental disorders for everyone in the room.
also
theres only a few people in the world who could possibly deserve torture e.g. bob rock for atrocious production. aimirite?
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#26
even if they have proven links to terrorists doesn't mean they know the information you want.

torture = nono.

I can't think of any scenario where it would be a viable option. The only thing I can see is when a person is known to be involved in a plot and has the information you need i.e. a phone call between 2 parties is listened to where the convo goes

'did you place the thing?'

'you mean the bomb? yeah I did it this morning'

'...dumbass'

and the police find that person. Even then it's not guaranteed that you'll get the info. Usually people who are willing to take lives have no fear of death.
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#27
Ahem, if you refer to the fellow who said the statement about getting false information...Who says the terrorist will give you the right information? They're opposed to your country, you think they want you to disarm that bomb?

No. They want you to die, and they will die for their cause. The only way we can really get the right infomation, is to tap into their brain, kind of difficult if you ask me.
#28
Quote by munkymanmatt
this. and post traumatic stress/ other mental disorders for everyone in the room.
also
theres only a few people in the world who could possibly deserve torture e.g. bob rock for atrocious production. aimirite?

I think it is acceptable only to prevent Fred Durst from reforming Limp Bizkit on the grounds that he's not really human anyway.
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I love you =] I can't say I was very fond of you when we first started talking because you trolled the hell out of my threads, but after talking to you here I've grown very attached to you.

Yeah, write to my fanclub about it, honey.
#29
no.. because people can go to jail for it.
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#30
All I know is that if I was getting tortured, Id probably say anything (and make up anything) to get the guy to stop
#31
i find someone scratching polystyrene (dont know what americans call it), i would rather stick pins in my eyes that hear that.
#32
Torture is never acceptable.

And evidence obtained through torture should never be admissible.

But the real point is, if your country tortures people, then it can expect it's citizens/soldiers to be tortured in the same manner.
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#34
No one expects the Spanish inquisition!

But really torture for information is wrong, not just because I wouldn't want it done to me but also because you don't know if the information they are giving you is the truth. I'd tell people I don't think OJ did it if they stabbed me enough times
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#35
Not just some random person / petty criminal. But if during war there was a captured leader who had some really important info that could save a lot of lives but he refuses to tell, then sure torture away till he tells. I dont meen regular soldiers though, because that would get you useless info and torture isn't exactly something you should do on a whim.
#36
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I think it is acceptable only to prevent Fred Durst from reforming Limp Bizkit on the grounds that he's not really human anyway.

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also the dude who mentioned polystyrene, i think americans call it....polystyrene
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#37
Quote by woMANintheBOX19
Some people like to be tortured....


Masochists might well be the ultimate terrorists.
#38
It's been a legitimate procedure in warfare for thousands of years. Why we started to puss out on it now is beyond me.
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#39
Yes, if you can justify it.

If the torturee (is that a word?) is a terrorist, and kills people, or something like that, sure as hell you should torture his ass for information.

Just my opinion
#40
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also the dude who mentioned polystyrene, i think americans call it....polystyrene



irish intelligence such an oxymoron


i found its called styrofoam