#1
c4c.


Cops shot an innocent today.
He was drunk and laying on the ground.
They thought he was doing so quite menacingly.

If I was a socialist fuck up,
I'd grab a pitchfork,
a torch and,
fourteen of my closest friends.
I'd stand in the street and
scream and
yell and
cry for the homeless bastard.
I'd throw the pitch forks at passing authority figures and
set couches on fire to protest the death of a man
who never owned a couch.

But I'm not.
So I'll just save a penny on each paycheck;
since the government has one less freeloader
sleeping in its living room.
#3
Back, sorry, did that first half at school, and then had to go for a blood test. I also apologize for doing it quote-bold style.


Cops shot an innocent today.
He was drunk and laying on the ground. (Just "drunk, laying on the ground" maybe?)
They thought he was doing so quite menacingly.
I don't like the flow here, the lengthy sentences each taking a line. The last especially stuck out like a sore thumb, "quite menacingly" being the culprit. I think I would like this more with some pretty boring line breaks, and a rearrangement of the last line.

If I was a socialist fuck up,
I'd grab a pitchfork,
fourteen of my closest friends,
I fail to see the significance of "fourteen" here.
and a torch.
Try to make this clearer that it is (I presume) one of those fire things, not a battery powered light bulb. I also think that "torch" would work better when placed closer to "pitchfork", for the -or- assonance.
I'd stand in the street and
scream and
yell and
cry for the homeless bastard's family
(which hasn't come forward yet).
I dislike these two lines, the parenthesized part more so. The first line really tried to explain the homeless guy, but way too late and in far too little detail. This line, halfway through, a whole political section after his first brief mention, brings unneeded questions to the reader, the most obvious being "if he has a family, then how come he's homeless?". The second line is then necessary filler, as if attempting to explain the first one. I'd drop 'em both, or just the second and re-word the first so it no longer mentions family. Maybe talk about all the other million homeless people, or other innocent victims?
I'd throw the pitch forks at passing authority figures and
"passing authority figures" Felt far too long, the polysyllabic words really dragging out the line, in complete mad contrast to the whole "anger, pitchforks, fire, rebellion" ideas.
set couches on fire to protest the death of a man
who never owned a couch.

But I'm not.
So I'll just save a penny on each paycheck;
since the government has one less freeloader
sleeping on its couch.
As mentioned in a post below, the third repetition of "couch" is nasty to see. The first two were good, backing up a point and the word did indeed warrant repetition. But here It;s just felt like you were "beating a dead horse". Indeed, you should still keep it furniture related, maybe the word itself (furniture), but couch isn't great to see again.

N.B. British here, so just be glad I tolerated this whole "couch" thing.



The parts I didn't comment on, I liked. I loved your whole idea here, how you kept it focused.
Last edited by ginjaninja at Jan 7, 2009,
#4
Quote by ZanasCross
c4c.


Cops shot an innocent today.
He was drunk and laying on the ground.
They thought he was doing so quite menacingly.

If I was a socialist fuck up,
I'd grab a pitchfork,
fourteen of my closest friends,
and a torch.
I'd stand in the street and
scream and
yell and
cry for the homeless bastard's family
(which hasn't come forward yet).
I'd throw the pitch forks at passing authority figures and
set couches on fire to protest the death of a man
who never owned a couch.


But I'm not.
So I'll just save a penny on each paycheck;
since the government has one less freeloader
sleeping on its couch.[/FONT]

Too much mentioning of a couch imo. Its not really central to the flow of the song.
#6
Nothing at the moment.

Look at rain if you want, but no need to comment, I think it died past the first page long ago. When you read, you'll see why. (Actually, in the [old] comm thread, you said you just read over most of the freepost thread, so maybe you saw it in there?)


Whatever, just remember you owe me
#7
Cops shot an innocent today.
i'm not fond of using innocent as a noun that way.
and an innocent is stumbly when spoken
but it might be the most direct way to get there.

He was drunk and laying on the ground.
i think the pause caused by a comma replacing and could be a good thing.
do you?

They thought he was doing so quite menacingly.

If I was a socialist fuck up,
You declare your bias, quite strongly.
Are you sure you wanna go that hard, Zach?

I'd grab a pitchfork,
a torch and,
fourteen of my closest friends.
I'd stand in the street and
scream and
yell and
having and at the end of the lines rather than at the beginning of the next, is brilliant.
it fucks up the natural rhythm and makes feel like an inhale-gasp.
the kind one might have when emotionally distraught.

cry for the homeless bastard.
I'd throw the pitch forks at passing authority figures and
set couches on fire to protest the death of a man
who never owned a couch.

But I'm not.
So I'll just save a penny on each paycheck;
since the government has one less freeloader
sleeping in its living room.



this doesn't flow all that well in S1, but it gets better as the piece goes on.
more importantly, i enjoyed the contrasting points of view.
the stereotypical bleeding-heart who is out to save the world
and the callous, selfish, cold-heart who comforts himself with the realization of a small benefit in the tragedy. we all have a little of both of them within us. and it makes me contemplate the balance between humanity and economy.
Meadows
Quote by Jackal58
I release my inner liberal every morning when I take a shit.
Quote by SK8RDUDE411
I wont be like those jerks who dedicate their beliefs to logic and reaosn.
#8
Everyone has done as much nitpicking as necessary. I just wanted to say that i really enjoyed this, definitely better than your last stuff. This had th right mix of witticism and real-life grit to sink my teeth into.
#9
Bad political and social commentary, the absolute worst kind.


What are you saying here? Cops are bad, but you won't do anything because you're lazy and apathetic? Socialism and altruism take advantage of the homeless plight for their own agenda? Capitalism and individualism are sole concerns of the individual, and the plight of others do not effect their own?

No, you didn't say anything of that, because replacing the entire crux or forced meaning of the piece is on the phrase "socialist fuck up" meaning you could remove that phrase and have no meaning at all. And since this is the only line that really alludes to any real meaning in this piece it leads me to believe it was an after thought.

This was a pointless piece on an Ayn Rand level ignorance.

Anyway, sorry, but this piece was flawed to a degree that makes unmolded clay look like porcelain.

Here's mine if you're interested:
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1040596
www.facebook.com/longlostcomic
#11
I enjoyed everything about this poem except the third line. Maybe a comma after so before Quite? Something about it stopped me dead as if I skipped an important word somewhere. But thats my only problem I see here. Great work.
#12
I enjoyed the first verse, particularly the third line. But the middle section was just rubbish. And then the ending was nothing more than the excact thing that I thought you were going to say.
This is the Zach that so many people like but I hate: I don't care to here about your views on socialism or political incorrectness - especially when your comparing it to household furniture - it's just too preachy and too clever. The personality is overtly strong and makes for really difficult and uncomfortable reading. There is no sense of humanity and emotion, it is you slapping the reader with what you feel and anyone who gets in your way is going down. It kind of contradicts what you were actually saying. Maybe you wanted that? Maybe you were secretly comparing yourself to the issues you were berating?
#13
If someone agrees with what your saying it's not going to change anything and if they don't they're going to stop reading because you're being so pushy about it.
There's only one thing we can do to thwart the plot of these albino shape-shifting lizard BITCHES!
#14
I've never been a fan of blatantly political pieces so this one just doesn't quite do it for me. But it is one of the better ones i've seen done here. I just think if you could bury the politics under the surface a little more than this could be beautiful.
#15
Hmm controversial and political, its quite clear you are at least a little right winged so your view is very understandable and to have some idea of the poets personality makes this poem that one bit better than your average poem.

Nicely done.

RFAP
#17
Wait...because he's conservative and a 'poet' that makes this poem better than any other average poem?

WRONG

poetry should be (as should everything) be graded equally on the content of the pieces. This is ignorant, psuedo-intellectual political speak.

I can be controversial too, it's not hard;

Babies are ugly.
Little girls have nazi vaginas.
Republicans barbeque puppies after taking their money and investing it in the asian food market.

It's not hard to generalize and stereotype, SOCIALIST ARE A BUNCH OF PROTESTING, RIOT CAUSING HIPPIES. It's just ignorant. I'm not a socialist, I don't consider myself affiliated with any political background because they're all blatantly flawed in a way, and others I just disagree with completely.

THINK before you speak or write. I'd say with this, and that one piece you did about aids/homosexuals you're slowly becoming my most disliked writer on this board.
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#18
Quote by ZanasCross
c4c.


Cops shot an innocent today.
He was drunk and laying on the ground.
They thought he was doing so quite menacingly.

i don't know why, but that stanza annoyed me... it didn't seem like it flowed the right way and it confused me as such. the idea was fine but the actual message wasn't carried across as smoothly as it could have been. i realize i'm being useless by not offering any solutions, but that's my 2 cents.

If I was a socialist fuck up,
I'd grab a pitchfork,
a torch and, perhaps delete the comma here and above as well, didn't seem to work.
fourteen of my closest friends.
I'd stand in the street and
scream and
yell and
cry for the homeless bastard.
I'd throw the pitch forks at passing authority figures and
set couches on fire to protest the death of a man
who never owned a couch change to "who never owned one", no more repetition.

stanza wasn't great, it made me hope that the next one was outstanding enough to save it.

But I'm not.
So I'll just save a penny on each paycheck;
since the government has one less freeloader
sleeping in its living room.well, you nearly redeemed the whole piece with that. the last stanza was pretty close to perfect. alliteration of penny/paycheck was great.


overall, this was pretty good, but i had huge problems with the way it flowed; it felt like your actual thoughts, not what you FELT about the situation. when you're writing about something that you obviously feel strongly about, it should be a lot more lucid and should mean something - not just your cataloguing of what people should do or whatever.

sorry for downputting, but you could easily fix this; i've seen what you can really write when you mean it.

if you'd like to return crits, https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1041737 would do it nicely =)
⚑⚑⚑⚑⚑
#19
Cops shot an innocent today.
He was drunk and laying on the ground.
They thought he was doing so quite menacingly.
drop the he was in the second line or reword the third to not to use the pronoun
If I was a socialist **** up,
I'd grab a pitchfork,
a torch and,
fourteen of my closest friends.you could reword line 2-4 , it seem kinda blain , i know you can work up something better
I'd stand in the street and
scream and
yell and
cry for the homeless bastard.
I'd throw the pitch forks at passing authority figures and
set couches on fire to protest the death of a man
who never owned a couch.
i like the last 2 lines here, maybe instead of using couch again maybe something like "who lived life without a cushion" something to maybe play off the fact that is life was so raw and hard....like not having a soft barrier between your ass and the hard surface that is life
But I'm not.
So I'll just save a penny on each paycheck;
since the government has one less freeloader
sleeping in its living room.
this last stanza made my day..nothing bad to say


c4c my ass i crit'ed your last work
and i have yet to see your sorry excuse of a return crit

so you need to crit both of my pieces now
to catch up
Reaching for the sun
one may forget
the feet which
ground him
#20
Quote by Something_Vague

THINK before you speak or write. I'd say with this, and that one piece you did about aids/homosexuals you're slowly becoming my most disliked writer on this board.


Good. It's quite mutual I assure you. Thanks everyone else. I really will get back to you soon.
#21
P.S.

and its bull**** you get like 15 crits on a bad day
when ill be lucky if i get one

i just thought i tell you how i felt
Reaching for the sun
one may forget
the feet which
ground him
#22
Quote by ZanasCross
Good. It's quite mutual I assure you. Thanks everyone else. I really will get back to you soon.


Ohhh, listen Kid, this isn't about personally disagreeing with your points, it's about you thinking you have points, when in reality there aren't any.

Don't fool yourself, this isn't smart. This isn't witty or anything, and it's very poorly written in terms of poetry and political/social commentary. That's what pissed me off so much about your Aids/Homosexual piece, is that you thought there was some hilariously witty, central theme, or some great point you were making, but in reality you just wrote ignorant hate speech with no basis for thinking these things, or why.

You're the Eli Roth of amateur poetry on a guitar forum. Like seriously, you can make the most offensive thing, or stupidly, ignorant junk and just so accidently you place your movie in a foreign country, that doesn't make it smart commentary. It just means you entire idea was based on the stereotypes that you're trying to bring to the forefront. You're encouraging ignorance.

I can sum up your piece as: Cops shoots man, "socialists" riot, you do nothing, (You simply claim to NOT be a socialist, which is fairly vague, I mean you could be a nazi, that's not at all socialism.) It's mind boggling, honestly the last thought you wrote down.

Freeloaders? We're all freeloaders, none of us contribute a substantial amount back to our government, we all pay (pretty much) equal taxes on various things (except income.) So this idea, that because someone's ideology of socialism makes them more of a freeloader than you, when in reality you're 'pinching pennies' each paycheck. Like what I just wrote doesn't make sense in my brain, and that's the only way to interpret this mess of social commentary.

Are you being ironic? Hypocritical?

"Those freeloading bastards! (Lazily sleeps on couch and complains about taxing.)"

I don't know, there's no evidence to show you're supporting capitalism. There's no evidence to show anything besides you think poorly of socialist rioters (which is a very rare thing, being that's never happened in the history of the United States.)

The only large scale riot from injustice, was of course Rodney King, who was neither homeless or poor. Just drunk, and the majority of people rioting were not socialist, they were impoverished black men and women who felt (and rightly so) they'd been dealt a giant punch in the gut, and felt the need to let their government show how poorly they handled the situation.

You seem to be at the same time against and for the plight of the homeless man, but at the end you pretty much call everyone and the homeless man freeloaders. This is jumbled, poorly thought out, tripe.

Seriously, stop acting all high and mighty, come off your mod horse (one you shouldn't have based on the Homosexual piece you wrote) and realize you wrote something awfully embarrassing (again) and should either be completely re-written to incorporate intelligence, or just deleted.
www.facebook.com/longlostcomic
#23
The point of writing this wasn't to say one thing or another... it was simply to observe something I thought was dumb and point out both sides of it. I'm not writing to take a side in this; I'm writing to point out both sides are equally flawed and pointless. Saying that capitalism/conservatism is heartless and liberalism "bleeding heart" stuff adds nothing to society. Same as the Aids peace, it was simply pointing out that the stereotypes are pointless and stupid, that Christianity really has nothing against gays from my point of view, and that a lacking sense of humor in the religious community is the problem. That was the whole reason behind that one... I have absolutely nothing against gays (i'd point out that I regularly hang out with quite a few people who have chosen that sexual orientation etc... but you'd just bash that). If you don't like the writing fair enough; but at least have the common decency to say something that points out why instead of just attacking the whole premise and telling me how horrible of a person I am and that I make baby Jesus cry at night. I don't personally give half of a **** what you think of me; you're a random asshole who's ego is so big its swallowing itself.

And what the hell does being a mod have to do with my writing?
#24
Then there was something in your phrasing that made it feel like it was saying something that it wasn't, and that is what is wrong with the writing. When you say 'socialist ****up' it sounds like you're being very angry, and surprisingly, this tone is added to when you mention pitchforks and fire. Then when you call the homeless guy a bastard, this adds even more.

Then your last stanza was written unclearly because it obviously led to many people thinking it was saying something that wasn't intended.

That's all. If it's a misunderstanding, admit it, because it's something.
There's only one thing we can do to thwart the plot of these albino shape-shifting lizard BITCHES!
#25
Quote by DigUpHerBones
Then there was something in your phrasing that made it feel like it was saying something that it wasn't, and that is what is wrong with the writing. When you say 'socialist ****up' it sounds like you're being very angry, and surprisingly, this tone is added to when you mention pitchforks and fire. Then when you call the homeless guy a bastard, this adds even more.

Then your last stanza was written unclearly because it obviously led to many people thinking it was saying something that wasn't intended.

That's all. If it's a misunderstanding, admit it, because it's something.


Katie, that's the beauty of a piece like this. It misdirects and allows the people who don't spend the time to read it to go off on what they THINK they're seeing.

I enjoyed watching the knee-jerk reactions even after I gave a fairly accurate assessment of the message at the end of my crit.


The Conservative extreme was skewered just as badly, if not worse than the Liberal. Look what he takes comfort in: A few pennies saved by no longer having this guy on the dole. And not at what was lost. A life. A human fucking life. How can anyone read that and think that's a good thing.


Extremists on both sides are horribly flawed.


It breaks my heart to think that few here can read a piece like this and get to a very simple message.


It wasn't flawless, but it was brilliant. As was the title.
Meadows
Quote by Jackal58
I release my inner liberal every morning when I take a shit.
Quote by SK8RDUDE411
I wont be like those jerks who dedicate their beliefs to logic and reaosn.
#26
No, you're just blatantly wrong. There's nothing beautiful about this piece, it doesn't make sense.

Ask anyone intelligent, ask Evan (Truly Ninja) probably the most well read person on this entire forum;

after I showed him the piece this is what he said:

ummyeahdude (10:59:59 PM): i dont even understand it

Writing like this shouldn't be praised, it should be scolded for being so lax on making any sort of point. There's no point being made, yet at the same you're "trying" to make a point. It's awful.

There isn't a single success, and I don't understand why people, WELL RESPECTED PEOPLE on this board are touting this is a success. It's not, it's simply not. This isn't opinion this is based on a fact that:

if you set out to make a point, and you fail to do so, you've failed.
this is a failure.

Portraying extremes, and saying nothing about them isn't make a point. STATING extremes isn't saying anything.

I know people like this exist, who the hell doesn't

This poem is the equivilent of writing an observation about a boy and a girl, except no point as to why these observations were made.

You clearly show a bias against socialists, bad cops, the homeless and penny pinching (?) and yet there isn't a fucking point (besides making an "observation" but I suppose if one watches enough cable news an observation "could" include inserting your own opinion). I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here, seriously.

This is the Bill O'Reilly of poetry here. It thinks it is fair and balanced and unbias and is making a deliberate point, but in actuality it is just a big blubbering nonsensical mess of uninformed "opinions" that the writer seems to think is an observational fact.

I lose respect, for whoever finds this to be intelligent, well thought out, or in any way shape or form decent. I don't care, opinions are opinions I know, but jesus christ.
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Last edited by Something_Vague at Jan 12, 2009,
#27
Quote by Something_Vague
No, you're just blatantly wrong. There's nothing beautiful about this piece, it doesn't make sense.

Ask anyone intelligent, ask Evan (Truly Ninja) probably the most well read person on this entire forum;

after I showed him the piece this is what he said:

ummyeahdude (10:59:59 PM): i dont even understand it


Yes, Matt. I stand corrected. How could this be beautiful.
How could I possibly understand this when the most well read person on this entire forum does not.

I am sorry I overstepped my bounds and humbly ask your forgiveness.


Quote by Something_Vague
Portraying extremes, and saying nothing about them isn't make a point. STATING extremes isn't saying anything.


Right again, Matt.

To show the contrast between these extremes and only allow the reader the freedom to come to the conclusion based on irony by reading it was WRONG.

If you want to make a statement you must always TELL the reader what to think. You should never allow them to find the message themself.

Shame on Zach for not telling me what to think. Shame on me and anyone else who got the message and looked into their soul to see how they might be guilty of being so entrenched in political dogma that they forgot to find balance.


If I may be excused, I will go away to cower in shame.
You have shown me the error of my ways and I must repent.
Meadows
Quote by Jackal58
I release my inner liberal every morning when I take a shit.
Quote by SK8RDUDE411
I wont be like those jerks who dedicate their beliefs to logic and reaosn.
#29
Oh Matt, now you've dragged me into this. I haven't read any of your pieces since the AIDS one because it (and your explanation of it) really touched a raw nerve with me. This one wasn't really offensive I don't think, and I'm not sure why Matt's jaws have locked so hard on it but knowing that your opinion in the last election was a profound cynicism leaning rightward I read this (the second time through, when I figured out what it all meant) as far more dismissive toward the "radical socialists" than the smug narrator. If that's an unfair reading of it I'm sorry?
#30
Quote by *Truly Ninja*
Oh Matt, now you've dragged me into this. I haven't read any of your pieces since the AIDS one because it (and your explanation of it) really touched a raw nerve with me. This one wasn't really offensive I don't think, and I'm not sure why Matt's jaws have locked so hard on it but knowing that your opinion in the last election was a profound cynicism leaning rightward I read this (the second time through, when I figured out what it all meant) as far more dismissive toward the "radical socialists" than the smug narrator. If that's an unfair reading of it I'm sorry?


I fully agree.

The jabs at the left are right out in the open.
The ending is suBtle.

You almost have to be a Conservative and associate with the narrator to feel the shame at the end and get the full impact.
Meadows
Quote by Jackal58
I release my inner liberal every morning when I take a shit.
Quote by SK8RDUDE411
I wont be like those jerks who dedicate their beliefs to logic and reaosn.
Last edited by SomeoneYouKnew at Jan 12, 2009,
#31
I think I blew this way out of proportion in terms of verbally assaulting people, I tend to do that, but in if you intend on keeping this (god forbid) re-write the middle paragraph to take away some of the blatant bias. I mean if your intension was to remain subjective, you really screwed the pooch.

It's a very one-sided piece, one that leans far too one side, yet you seem to think (along with SYK) that it stays in the middle, or right of center. It's just, again your being unable to write subjectively.

The proof is in the pudding, most everyone thought this was a conservative piece, but in the end

Quote by ZanaCross
The point of writing this wasn't to say one thing or another... it was simply to observe something I thought was dumb and point out both sides of it. I'm not writing to take a side in this; I'm writing to point out both sides are equally flawed and pointless. Saying that capitalism/conservatism is heartless and liberalism "bleeding heart" stuff adds nothing to society.


He doesn't understand that his opinion doesn't matter, the readers have stated it leans to the right, intended or not, you have to acknowledge that it is and does, and if you're okay with that, explain it as such, but don't deny what it is. I don't why you wrote it, or your mindset when writing it, this is the piece and that is what I got from it.

The much debated issue of whether a writer's meaning means anything when a reader reads it. In my opinion it doesn't.
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