Page 1 of 2
#1
Guys... How to make Epi LP sound exactly like Gibby LP???
ive seen comparison vids of ppl comparing epiphone and gibson les pauls.....and most of them said the diference is not that noticable, only a couple of things... 1 resale value (obivously) 2 the pickups are not as hot..and 3 built quality 4 gibson brand name

resale, and gibson name i can live without...cuz usualy i keep all guitars i buy, also i couldnt care less about gibson on my headstock..
but about the quality and pickups..... if i can find a well built epi and i swap out the pick ups for some really nice ones....do i pretty much have a guitar just as good sound and quality wise as a Gibson?? honestly i dont wanna spend 2000+ i can afford it ..i just dont want to if i can buy one for 500 bucks + dope pickups 800 bucks

also...another thing i find that Epiphones have smaller necks (as in not as fat) as gibsons which is actually a very good thing cuz my hands are small and used to fender necks
#2
well there ya go! pick up your pick ups, change the tuning knobs and you pretty much have a gibson in sound and look!
get the right pickups and they should be very difficult to tell apart from a gibby
Epiphone SG G-400 faded
Fender Strat
Fender Frontman amp
**Dream Guitar**
Fender telecaster '58 heavy relic in blonde

"its in the key of D minor, i find songs in this key makes people want to weep."
"its called Lick My Love Pump"
#3
I've heard something about a certain capacitor being key in the sound of vintage Gibsons. The "bumblebee" or something. Since they were only used in old ones, i'm guessing they don't exist anymore. But is there anything close?
Alvarez dreadnought
Gibson SG
EC-1000
Homemade Strat (seymour duncan classic stack p/ups)
Vox Tonelab (original desktop model) with full board footswitch
Vox AD50
Avatar V30 4x12 cab
#4
u still wont have a complete sound the wood makes a big difference in sound
Want something that looks like spam but is actually legit?! Well I have the thing for you. Nah dude, I actually get legit MS points from this and do like 2 surveys and you can get about 400.

http://www.points2shop.com/?ref=EmoSlayer
#5
Quote by gwitersnamps
I've heard something about a certain capacitor being key in the sound of vintage Gibsons. The "bumblebee" or something. Since they were only used in old ones, i'm guessing they don't exist anymore. But is there anything close?


Sprague Bumblebee film and oil tone caps along with CTS audio taper pots wired '50s style.

But no, that isn't the key to the sound of vintage Gibsons, I mean, they do sound great and if you want to spend a lot of cash on NOS caps then that's your decision... The key to vintage Gibsons were 1) the pickups 2) they used a higher quality, lightweight and more resonant mahogany. This is super important to some people, to me a good les paul just has this... woody, earthy, airy kind of timbre, and to me, you can hear it most when you hit muted strings for percussive notes, and the way your guitar responds when you change your pick attack and the overtones you hear when you bend certain notes. Idk it's kind of subtle and really the kind of thing you start listening for after playing a les paul for a long while, but whether it's subtle, it's one of those things that makes or breaks a les paul imo.
#6
one thing you didnt count was the wood gibson LPs are made of.

even without the electronics, gibson lps have a natural sustain that you cannot get out of an epiphone primarily from the wood it is made out of. sustain just means, how long a note can last before it dies away.

gibson LPs get a more thicker sound mostly because the guitar wood is alot heavier and is made of denser and expensive woods. because gibson LPs are made out of heavier woods, just the bulk of the guitar itself gives it its natural sustain.

so outside the cosmetics (superior hardware, paint, finishes, pickups, electronics, etc.) that you can easily mod an epiphone with, a gibson LP has an epiphone beat on the wood construction.
#7
Quote by pepsi1187
one thing you didnt count was the wood gibson LPs are made of.

even without the electronics, gibson lps have a natural sustain that you cannot get out of an epiphone primarily from the wood it is made out of. sustain just means, how long a note can last before it dies away.

gibson LPs get a more thicker sound mostly because the guitar wood is alot heavier and is made of denser and expensive woods. because gibson LPs are made out of heavier woods, just the bulk of the guitar itself gives it its natural sustain.

so outside the cosmetics (superior hardware, paint, finishes, pickups, electronics, etc.) that you can easily mod an epiphone with, a gibson LP has an epiphone beat on the wood construction.



Actually it's not. The best les pauls were always made of lightweight mahoganys. A heavy les paul is always going to be an overly dark les paul which is often going to mean a flubby and muddy low end. The weight of the guitar has less to do with it's sustain than you probably think, the les paul's natural sustain comes primarily from high build quality and a good bridge. Now, the wood however does affect the resonance of the guitar which is absolutely very important which is why you should always play the guitar unplugged first.
#8
Well you could start with the biggest thing which would be the pickups. If you want to indulge, i suggest BurstBucker Pros. Otherwise, try GFS pickups. They're great, especially for the price. After that, i would move on to replacing the pots/electronics. Stock electronics aren't usually the best, and new ones can help a bit. After that, i would replace the hardware. New bridge or tuners first, depending on which i needed more. Aside from that, i don't think there's much else you can do.
#9
epiphone les pauls have bodies composed of alder AND mahogany. i don't know the construction details, but there's two kinds of wood in the body.

gibson les pauls are 100% mahogany. that's the real difference.

don't get me wrong though... i have an Epi les paul with Gibson '57 pickups, and it sounds great. just make sure you get a good epi... they have a higher dud rate than the american-made Gibsons.
#10
epps have a basswood body till about 600$ after which the use mahagony body, and thats the same as a gibby, but it really is about build quality too, but a higher end epiphone should work oout ok i would thnk
#11
Quote by southpaw_tdg
epps have a basswood body till about 600$ after which the use mahagony body, and thats the same as a gibby, but it really is about build quality too, but a higher end epiphone should work oout ok i would thnk

if i were to buy an epi LP
it would be the standard which is mahogany body with maple top...which is the same as gibson
#12
Also consider the feeling of playing a Gibson vs Epiphone. Epiphones feel very cheap. I think any experienced guitarist could tell an Epiphone vs a Gibson in a blindfolded test based on feel and sound alone. What this specifically means in terms of sound and quality, I'm not sure, but my point is that you can't take an Epiphone and turn it into a Gibson.

Also, in my experience (working at a Guitar Store), 80% of the broken guitars people bring in are Epiphones. The volume/tone knobs crap out constantly and the headstocks snap off from being laid against a wall sometimes.
E-married to ilikepirates

Quote by bloodtrocuted93

How are you so fucking awesome at music?


>¦<
¦
#13
There's a few things to consider which only the Gibson will have which you might prefer, so they may make it worth buying a Gibson anyway:
  • You said you have smaller hands. If you get a Gibson with a 60's neck profile, that neck is slimmer than the Epiphone neck. Epiphone necks are roughly halfway between the Gibson 50's and Gibson 60's profiles, you may find the Gibson 60's neck is better for you anyway.
  • The Epi is finished in a thick poly-based finish, the Gibson has a thin nitro-based finish. This does effect the natural tone of the instrument (thin nitro has a brighter and more natural tone than thick poly which will muffle some of the natural tonal properties and dynamic reaction of the wood), and also effects the feel. Nitro finishes feel sticky when they're brand new but quickly wear down. Poly finishes take much longer to wear down and though they're never as sticky as a brand new nitro finish, they'll never be as slick and smooth as an older nitro finish. Many people believe a good nitro finish is vital to an instrument's performance. Others say they don't care about the difference, it's personal preference really. You shouldn't say no to one without at least trying both though.
  • Most Gibsons are weight-relieved, whereas most Epiphones are solid bodies. It's total personal preference which you prefer, many people say weight-relieving is awful, many people say it provides lots of benefits with no drawbacks - you need to play both yourself to work out which you'll like more.


Additionally there are some things that only the Gibson will have which are always better, which no Epiphone will get no matter how much you mod it:
  • The basic build quality of a Gibson is of course higher than an Epiphone. This means the guitar will last longer overall, stay in good condition for longer, and etc etc. Additionally this also means things like all the routes being in exactly the right place, nothing being loose, frets installed correctly, etc. Some of these things you could possibly correct on an Epi, but if you were the sort of person that could correct them then you'd also be the sort of person who could just go and build their own guitar, and you wouldn't have made this thread in the first place.
  • In a similar vein, the basic materials the Gibson is made from will contribute to a better overall feel and tone. Whereas an Epiphone can be made from three pieces of cheap mahogany with a basic A (AA if you're lucky) maple cap and a filler block in the neck to tighten up a poorly made neck pocket (which will murder sustain), a Gibson is usually made of 2 pieces of better quality mahogany (some Custom Shop guitars will be made of one piece), have a AAA or AAAA maple cap, and you're guaranteed to have a better fitting neck pocket. The Gibson will also have it's metal components made of better materials, providing longer lasting frets, better installed binding, etc etc. This overall contributes to a nicer tone, a better feel, and the aforementioned longer life and general better quality.



Also, if you were really serious about modding an Epiphone up to Gibson quality, you'd have to buy/do quite a lot of stuff, which could end up making it just as expensive as buying a Gibson off the shelf anyway:
  • Replace all of the electronics. This doesn't just mean pickups; all four volume and tone pots, the capacitors, the selector switch, the input jack, even the wire used to connect it all.
  • Replace all the hardware. Tuners, bridge, pickup mounting rings, pickguard (if needed).
  • Replace the nut.
  • Replace the frets.
  • Possibly replace the fretboard (a near impossible task unless you really knew what you were doing - and if you did, you'd just be building your own guitars anyway).
  • Possibly have the guitar refinished if you wanted the true Gibson sound.



And even after all that, it'd still never play, feel or sound like a Gibson, thanks to the cheaper core build.

Not to mention how hard it is to find one of those 'good Epiphones'. The basic build of the current Chinese ones are mostly awful, and even back when they were made in Korea it was 50/50 whether they'd be any good or not. Really the same goes for all the Chinese and Korean-made LP copies, Epiphone isn't especially bad, but if you're talking about something competing with a decent Gibson, it matters.



tl;dr version: you can certainly make an Epiphone much better than it started off, but it will never be able to compete with a good Gibson. An average Gibson or a bad Gibson, maybe. But unless you're going to have a custom guitar hand-made for you, you can't match the quality of a good Gibson.
Yes, I know everything. No, I can't play worth a damn.
A child is trafficked and sold for sex slavery every 30 seconds. Support Love146.
#15
Epi LP's body may be Mahogany with maple top but they're significantly different from Gibson LPs. I've heard somewhere that Epi LPs are actually not solid body, somekind 3 piece glued body or something I forgot. Which is why Epi LP's are so much lighter than Gibson LPs.

Suppose you do buy an Epi LP like Custom for $800.
Change the pickups, electronics, bridge/tail piece.
They'll add up to like $1300.
I think at that price you'd better look into used Gibson LP Studio or Standard.

Just my 2 cent

Good luck!
#16
Quote by frigginjerk
epiphone les pauls have bodies composed of alder AND mahogany. i don't know the construction details, but there's two kinds of wood in the body.

gibson les pauls are 100% mahogany. that's the real difference.

don't get me wrong though... i have an Epi les paul with Gibson '57 pickups, and it sounds great. just make sure you get a good epi... they have a higher dud rate than the american-made Gibsons.


They quit doing the alder thing back in 2006. Basically what it was was an alder body with an African mahogany veneer, mine was built like that, it's pathetic. Now they use a cheap philippine species of mahogany on lower and mid ranged models. The mahogany aside for a moment, the maple tops aren't nearly as thick as a Gibson either.
#17
Quote by Antimage27
if i were to buy an epi LP
it would be the standard which is mahogany body with maple top...which is the same as gibson


It's not the same as Gibson, in all of Gibsons guitars they use a high quality Honduran mahogany, Epiphones use a different asian wood called nato or "indonesian mahogany," it's not REALLY mahogany but it is similar, and the neck is made of the same material, the back has a mahogany veneer. The maple cap is also a veneer.
#18
Quote by Pac_man0123


EDIT: ^^ Holy crap Fibble!
Heh. Well, I've spent a lot of time and money myself modding and upgrading cheaper guitars. Mostly just for fun really. I'm all too aware of the limits of Epiphones.
Yes, I know everything. No, I can't play worth a damn.
A child is trafficked and sold for sex slavery every 30 seconds. Support Love146.
#19
Quote by MrFlibble
Heh. Well, I've spent a lot of time and money myself modding and upgrading cheaper guitars. Mostly just for fun really. I'm all too aware of the limits of Epiphones.

Aye. Do you think an agile would be a better bet than an epiphone?

Btw, i want your VOS..

<_<
#20
Ha, everyone wants my VOS They ain't getting it though!

As far as Agile goes, I'm normally against buying things online but if it was going to get modded to hell and back anyway, I think Agile might be a better choice simply because some of the better Agiles are still made in Korea so the basic build quality should be a little nicer. Overall though I don't think there's much in it. Most of the Asian LP copies are made in the same couple of factories so a lot of them are identical except for the name on the headstock.
Yes, I know everything. No, I can't play worth a damn.
A child is trafficked and sold for sex slavery every 30 seconds. Support Love146.
#21
Quote by MrFlibble
Ha, everyone wants my VOS They ain't getting it though!

As far as Agile goes, I'm normally against buying things online but if it was going to get modded to hell and back anyway, I think Agile might be a better choice simply because some of the better Agiles are still made in Korea so the basic build quality should be a little nicer. Overall though I don't think there's much in it. Most of the Asian LP copies are made in the same couple of factories so a lot of them are identical except for the name on the headstock.

Good point, there... of course

Hmm... Sounds like you're right. Epiphones/asian copies in general are quite limited as far as making them close to their american brothers...
#22
Don't get me wrong, Epis (and other copies) can be 'good' with a few upgrades. It's just silly though to ever expect a mass-produced guitar made in some factory in the middle of China using lower-grade parts to ever compete with something hand-made by a master craftsman using the best materials money can buy. It's like sticking a turbo in a family car and expecting it to keep up with a precision-tuned racing car.
Yes, I know everything. No, I can't play worth a damn.
A child is trafficked and sold for sex slavery every 30 seconds. Support Love146.
#23
Quote by ovvyiljs
Epi LP's body may be Mahogany with maple top but they're significantly different from Gibson LPs. I've heard somewhere that Epi LPs are actually not solid body, somekind 3 piece glued body or something I forgot. Which is why Epi LP's are so much lighter than Gibson LPs.

Suppose you do buy an Epi LP like Custom for $800.
Change the pickups, electronics, bridge/tail piece.
They'll add up to like $1300.
I think at that price you'd better look into used Gibson LP Studio or Standard.

Just my 2 cent

Good luck!

why would i get a custom...
a epi standard is about 550 canadian at Long and mcquade plus tax and crap 600
plus bridge and pickups all that jazz runs me about under 1k
a studio is about 1400 bucks..and is the last thing ill buy tbh...if im going gibson, im going all out (standard wise lol)
#24
Quote by Antimage27
why would i get a custom...
a epi standard is about 550 canadian at Long and mcquade plus tax and crap 600
plus bridge and pickups all that jazz runs me about under 1k
a studio is about 1400 bucks..and is the last thing ill buy tbh...if im going gibson, im going all out (standard wise lol)

You can get budget but quality parts from www.guitarfetish.com

And off-topic, sorry flibble, all this time i didnt notice the "l" between the "f" and "i" haha.
#25
Quote by Pac_man0123
Good point, there... of course

Hmm... Sounds like you're right. Epiphones/asian copies in general are quite limited as far as making them close to their american brothers...


Well don't count out Japan...

If you're looking for something competitive with a Gibson start looking at MIJ copies, and this includes MIJ Epiphones. Other brands would be Burny, Greco, Edwards, Orville/Orville By Gibson, and Tokai. Prices will ranged from as low as $500 for some of the old basic Burnys to $1500+ for an early 80's Tokai Love Rock. Plenty of great copies around the $700 and $800 range. Completely different level of craftsmanship compared to China or Korea.
#26
Also to add to this....anyone know the Epiphone Elite???
is it better than the Gibson studio ?
#27
Quote by Antimage27
Also to add to this....anyone know the Epiphone Elite???
is it better than the Gibson studio ?

They're discontinued i believe.

They are great guitars. Like usual, it's not as much which is "better" as it is which one do you prefer.

Many people here will insist that the elitist is a better deal. If you can get your hands on one, try it, then compare it to gibson models.
#28
Quote by Antimage27
Also to add to this....anyone know the Epiphone Elite???
is it better than the Gibson studio ?


I'd say it's a better value yes.
#29
Quote by Pac_man0123
They're discontinued i believe.

They are great guitars. Like usual, it's not as much which is "better" as it is which one do you prefer.

Many people here will insist that the elitist is a better deal. If you can get your hands on one, try it, then compare it to gibson models.

do u know if epiphone are making new guitars for like mid level players??
id say around $700-900 range
#30
Get the Elitist. It's the exact same parts and wood that Gibson uses. The reason it's so cheap is that it's not made in America and it's doesn't have the nitro finish. Instead, it's made in Japan, and Japan makes some great instruments. I hear the Elitists also have better QC than lower end Gibsons. So the Elitists are the best value Les Pauls. They were too good that Gibson had to stop producing them. Plus, the money you spend upgrading a regular Epi LP would end up being only a little less expensive than the Elitist and it'll never be as good. It'll be cheaper if you go used. And the resale value is better than a regular Epi. Find one while you can.
Last edited by JELIFISH19 at Jan 7, 2009,
#31
Elitists are damn good. Certainly better than a Gibson Studio on average, possibly as good as/slightly better than a Gibson Standard. I wouldn't even think about upgrading an Elitist in fact.

The problem is of course they stopped making them a while ago and nearly all the existing ones have been sold and nobody wants to sell theirs.

Though if anyone does have one they want to get rid of, I'm sure I could find some space somewhere for one...
Yes, I know everything. No, I can't play worth a damn.
A child is trafficked and sold for sex slavery every 30 seconds. Support Love146.
#32
Yeah. They're as good as a Gibson standard. PPPFFFFTTTT!!!! How about generalizing some.
#33
Quote by Antimage27
Also to add to this....anyone know the Epiphone Elite???
is it better than the Gibson studio ?


I own the Elitist LP. It is personally better imo. The quality in which they are made it is a lot higher than most LP copies, and it sure feels solid in the body, to the point I still have the stock pick ups because they just sound crunchy, full and thick and I don't have a reason to change them yet. I'd personally say it's better than the Studio, and the average Standard but it falls behind those rare Standards that just feel superb when you try them out. It's worth the sale. I last saw them for $1250 but they were discontinued the day Gibson decided take off some of their own models. Try checking samash, musiciansfriend for it if you want it new or try used at craigslist/ebay.

Hope it helps.
Quote by Eddie4President
Either you remind her of a girl, or she's not a lesbian.


Quote by blake1221
Jabba's real name is Katie.
#34
Quote by danohat
Yeah. They're as good as a Gibson standard. PPPFFFFTTTT!!!! How about generalizing some.


He did say possibly, as so did I. Facts are facts and Gibson's quality isn't the same as its prime while the Elitist series was made to be Epiphone's high end of the line product that instead of Korea, it was made under Japan. As we said, a good rare Standard will probably surpass the Elitist but the Elitist itself has a standard set quality on the majority of the models made vs the rare one you need to dig for in the Gibson Standard.
Quote by Eddie4President
Either you remind her of a girl, or she's not a lesbian.


Quote by blake1221
Jabba's real name is Katie.
#35
Quote by danohat
Yeah. They're as good as a Gibson standard. PPPFFFFTTTT!!!! How about generalizing some.
Let's look at this objectively:
A new Gibson LP Standard:
- Made in America.
- Core construction performed on production line using traditional processes; final finishing by hand.
- 2 piece mahogany body, weight-relieved.
- set mahogany neck.
- rosewood fretboard.
- Gibson BurstBucker Pro pickups (made in America, wax potted overwound Alnico V pickups).
- AA/AAA flame maple top.
- Chrome-plated brass hardware.
- Bone nut, hand filed.
- Nitro-based finish.

An Epiphone Elitist LP:
- Made in Japan.
- Core construction performed on production line using modern technology such as laser-cut inlays; final finishing by hand.
- 2 piece mahogany body, solid.
- set mahogany neck.
- rosewood or ebony fretboard depending on finish.
- Chrome-plated or 24k gold-plated brass hardware depending on finish.
- AA/AAA flame maple top or solid maple top on solid finishes.
- Bone nut, laser cut.
- Poly-based finish.
- 50SR/60ST pickups (made in America, wax potted overwound Alnico V pickups).

So pretty much the only differences are things which come down to personal preference like the type of finish used, the stock pickups, and the colour of the finish/hardware combination. Also of course the very important weight-relieved vs solid body. In terms of the overall technical quality, there's no reason for either to be better than the other - simply one is made in a more traditional, time-proven way, another uses the latest technology to ensure a precise build.


There is a reason why those Elitists got the reputation they did and cost the same as a Gibson in most countries.

And before anyone screams Epiphone fanboy, check my sig.



EDIT: and to re-affirm, I'm not saying one is flat-out better than the other. Just that they're very comparable, and it's not impossible for the Elitist to be better than a Gibson Standard. I'm not saying every Gibson Standard is a pile of junk nor am I saying every Elitist is an incredible master-crafted work of art.
Yes, I know everything. No, I can't play worth a damn.
A child is trafficked and sold for sex slavery every 30 seconds. Support Love146.
Last edited by MrFlibble at Jan 7, 2009,
#36
Christie? You named her that or I'm totally lost? Either way, cool name. lol
Quote by Eddie4President
Either you remind her of a girl, or she's not a lesbian.


Quote by blake1221
Jabba's real name is Katie.
#37
or just get an epiphone elitist and change nothing on it...
Quote by RetroGunslinger
this is like comparing a flushing toilet to a hole in the ground
#38
Billy Gibbons has a bunch of gibson guitars same model, look the same, etc and he says none of them sound as good as his first one. So how do you make an epi sound like guitars that dont even sound the same themselves. Wood varies from tree to tree so is honduran mahogany better than mahogany that comes from say panama, probably not. Some of the things people think about epis Im not sure where it comes from. The 500$ standard model is made of mahogany not basswood as was my 250$ LP100, I called to ask. Or their made from glued together scrap wood or have alder centers etc. Or its made in china so its not any good, considering they built the great wall and invented gunpowder that may not be entirely accurate. Yea the internals and pickups on epis leave alot to be desired but easily fixed. Can a epi sound just like a gibson, depends, which gibson a goldtop, a studio, standard model, slash signature? Im perfectly happy with my 2 epis they both sound very different from each other. As Im a lefty doubt I will get to compare em to a try a gibson any time soon, cheapest lefty gibson is 2500$. Or enough to buy 2 epis and mod the crap out of em still have money left over for a nice amp.
#39
Quote by Whole Lotta Led
They quit doing the alder thing back in 2006. Basically what it was was an alder body with an African mahogany veneer, mine was built like that, it's pathetic. Now they use a cheap philippine species of mahogany on lower and mid ranged models. The mahogany aside for a moment, the maple tops aren't nearly as thick as a Gibson either.


yeah, mine's an 04, i think. I must have lucked out with mine, as it's been solid as a rock for the most part. i've upgraded the pickups, and had it set up and intonated last year. i used it for most of the tracks on my band's new EP, and it came off great. you can hear it by clicking the link in my sig.
#40
Quote by Tackleberry
Billy Gibbons has a bunch of gibson guitars same model, look the same, etc and he says none of them sound as good as his first one. So how do you make an epi sound like guitars that dont even sound the same themselves. Wood varies from tree to tree so is honduran mahogany better than mahogany that comes from say panama, probably not. Some of the things people think about epis Im not sure where it comes from. The 500$ standard model is made of mahogany not basswood as was my 250$ LP100, I called to ask. Or their made from glued together scrap wood or have alder centers etc. Or its made in china so its not any good, considering they built the great wall and invented gunpowder that may not be entirely accurate. Yea the internals and pickups on epis leave alot to be desired but easily fixed. Can a epi sound just like a gibson, depends, which gibson a goldtop, a studio, standard model, slash signature? Im perfectly happy with my 2 epis they both sound very different from each other. As Im a lefty doubt I will get to compare em to a try a gibson any time soon, cheapest lefty gibson is 2500$. Or enough to buy 2 epis and mod the crap out of em still have money left over for a nice amp.


Actually, they came across gunpowder by accident because they were trying to become immortal, and the Great Wall was built to protect them against the Mongols - which did last a while but not long enough.

So with Chinese inventions we could say that they're not what the Chinese were after, but, that they are, at least then, the second best thing. Same goes for Chinese-made guitars!
Phrases Label
The Bohemes
---
The White Strat w/Dimebucker
Tokai Explorer Korina
Ibanez RG570 Purple Neon
Gibson Les Paul Deluxe Ebony
Fender Telecaster Apple Red
Dano '59 Burgundy
Ibanez Artcore AM-73
Page 1 of 2