#1
I made a lesson a while back and it seemed pretty good to me, but it has been waiting for about half a month now, i was wondering if there was a reason. I don't know if i can post it here but this is what it is.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pattern of Modes
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(Most of this info is pulled from the Modes Dictionary)

Here is a lesson on the patterns of modes. I noticed alot of people were confused
on how modes connect to each other. I analyze the totality of the modes patterns.
I came up with this guidelines to help anyone to learn these easier.

First, to quote another person that worked on the mode dictionary, know that modes
are alterations to the major scale.

Also all scales can be set tweleve frets ahead to there equal noting.
No matter where you put the pattern you make the corrisponding Noted Scale

Example: start the Ionian pattern on the first fret of the Low E or thickest string
You have an F Ionian


Ionian
A A#/Bb B C C#/Db D D#/Eb
e|-5-----l-6------l-7------l-8-------l-9--------l-10-------l-11-------l
B|---7-9-l---8-10-l---9-11-l---10-12-l----11-13-l----12-14-l----13-15-l
G|-6-7-9-l-7-8-10-l-8-9-11-l-9-10-12-l-10-11-13-l-11-12-14-l-12-13-15-l
D|-6-7-9-l-7-8-10-l-8-9-11-l-9-10-12-l-10-11-13-l-11-12-14-l-12-13-15-l
A|-5-7-9-l-6-8-10-l-7-9-11-l-8-10-12-l-9--11-13-l-10-12-14-l-11-13-15-l
E|-5-7-9-l-6-8-10-l-7-9-11-l-8-10-12-l-9--11-13-l-10-12-14-l-11-13-15-l

E F F#/Gb G G#
e|-0-----l-1-----l-2-----l-3-----l-4-----l |x|-|-|-|-|
B|---2-4-l---3-5-l---4-6-l---5-7-l---6-8-l |-|-|x|-|x|
G|-1-2-4-l-2-3-5-l-3-4-6-l-4-5-7-l-5-6-8-l Ionian pattern = |-|x|x|-|x|
D|-1-2-4-l-2-3-5-l-3-4-6-l-4-5-7-l-5-6-8-l |-|x|x|-|x|
A|-0-2-4-l-1-3-5-l-2-4-6-l-3-5-7-l-4-6-8-l |x|-|x|-|x|
E|-0-2-4-l-1-3-5-l-2-4-6-l-3-5-7-l-4-6-8-l |x|-|x|-|x|

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dorian
A A#/Bb B C C#/Db D D#/Eb
e|-5-----l-6------l-7------l-8-------l-9-------l-10-------l-11-------l
B|---7-8-l---8-9--l---9-10-l---10-11-l---11-12-l----12-13-l----13-14-l
G|-5-7-9-l-6-8-10-l-7-9-11-l-8-10-12-l-9-11-13-l-10-12-14-l-11-13-15-l
D|-5-7-9-l-6-8-10-l-7-9-11-l-8-10-12-l-9-11-13-l-10-12-14-l-11-13-15-l
A|-5-7-9-l-6-8-10-l-7-9-11-l-8-10-12-l-9-11-13-l-10-12-14-l-11-13-15-l
E|-5-7-8-l-6-8-9--l-7-9-10-l-8-10-11-l-9-11-12-l-10-12-13-l-11-13-14-l

E F F#/Gb G G#
e|-0-----l-1-----l-2-----l-3-----l-4-----l |x|-|-|-|-|
B|---2-3-l---3-4-l---4-5-l---5-6-l---6-7-l |-|-|x|x|-|
G|-0-2-4-l-1-3-5-l-2-4-6-l-3-5-7-l-4-6-8-l Dorian pattern = |x|-|x|-|x|
D|-0-2-4-l-1-3-5-l-2-4-6-l-3-5-7-l-4-6-8-l |x|-|x|-|x|
A|-0-2-4-l-1-3-5-l-2-4-6-l-3-5-7-l-4-6-8-l |x|-|x|-|x|
E|-0-2-3-l-1-3-4-l-2-4-5-l-3-5-6-l-4-6-7-l |x|-|x|x|-|

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Phrygian
A A#/Bb B C C#/Db D D#/Eb
e|-5-----l-6------l-7------l-8-------l-9-------l-10-------l-11-------l
B|---6-8-l---7-9--l---8-10-l---9--11-l---10-12-l----11-13-l----12-14-l
G|-5-7-9-l-6-8-10-l-7-9-11-l-8-10-12-l-9-11-13-l-10-12-14-l-11-13-15-l
D|-5-7-8-l-6-8-9--l-7-9-10-l-8-10-11-l-9-11-12-l-10-12-13-l-11-13-14-l
A|-5-7-8-l-6-8-9--l-7-9-10-l-8-10-11-l-9-11-12-l-10-12-13-l-11-13-14-l
E|-5-6-8-l-6-7-9--l-7-8-10-l-8-9--11-l-9-10-12-l-10-11-13-l-11-12-14-l

E F F#/Gb G G#
e|-0-----l-1-----l-2-----l-3-----l-4-----l |x|-|-|-|-|
B|---1-3-l---2-4-l---3-5-l---4-6-l---5-7-l |-|x|-|x|-|
G|-0-2-4-l-1-3-5-l-2-4-6-l-3-5-7-l-4-6-8-l Phrygian pattern = |x|-|x|-|x|
D|-0-2-3-l-1-3-4-l-2-4-5-l-3-5-6-l-4-6-7-l |x|-|x|x|-|
A|-0-2-3-l-1-3-4-l-2-4-5-l-3-5-6-l-4-6-7-l |x|-|x|x|-|
E|-0-1-3-l-1-2-4-l-2-3-5-l-3-4-6-l-4-5-7-l |x|x|-|x|-|

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lydian
A A#/Bb B C C#/Db D D#/Eb
e|-5-----l-6------l-7-------l-8-------l-9--------l-10-------l-11-------l
B|---7-9-l---8-10-l---9--11-l---10-12-l----11-13-l----12-14-l----13-15-l
G|-6-8-9-l-7-9-10-l-8-10-11-l-9-11-12-l-10-12-13-l-11-13-14-l-12-14-15-l
D|-6-7-9-l-7-8-10-l-8-9--11-l-9-10-12-l-10-11-13-l-11-12-14-l-12-13-15-l
A|-6-7-9-l-7-8-10-l-8-9--11-l-9-10-12-l-10-11-13-l-11-12-14-l-12-13-15-l
E|-5-7-9-l-6-8-10-l-7-9--11-l-8-10-12-l-9--11-13-l-10-12-14-l-11-13-15-l

E F F#/Gb G G#
e|-0-----l-1-----l-2-----l-3-----l-4-----l |x|-|-|-|-|
B|---2-4-l---3-5-l---4-6-l---5-7-l---6-8-l |-|-|x|-|x|
G|-1-3-4-l-2-4-5-l-3-5-6-l-4-6-7-l-5-7-8-l Lydian pattern = |-|x|-|x|x|
D|-1-2-4-l-2-3-5-l-3-4-6-l-4-5-7-l-5-6-8-l |-|x|x|-|x|
A|-1-2-4-l-2-3-5-l-3-4-6-l-4-5-7-l-5-6-8-l |-|x|x|-|x|
E|-0-2-4-l-1-3-5-l-2-4-6-l-3-5-7-l-4-6-8-l |x|-|x|-|x|

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mixolydian
A A#/Bb B C C#/Db D D#/Eb
e|-5-----l-6------l-7------l-8-------l-9--------l-10-------l-11-------l
B|---7-8-l---8-9--l---9-10-l---10-11-l----11-12-l----12-13-l----13-14-l
G|-6-7-9-l-7-8-10-l-8-9-11-l-9-10-12-l-10-11-13-l-11-12-14-l-12-13-15-l
D|-5-7-9-l-6-8-10-l-7-9-11-l-8-10-12-l-9--11-13-l-10-12-14-l-11-13-15-l
A|-5-7-9-l-6-8-10-l-7-9-11-l-8-10-12-l-9--11-13-l-10-12-14-l-11-13-15-l
E|-5-7-9-l-6-8-10-l-7-9-11-l-8-10-12-l-9--11-13-l-10-12-14-l-11-13-15-l

E F F#/Gb G G#
e|-0-----l-1-----l-2-----l-3-----l-4-----l |x|-|-|-|-|
B|---2-3-l---3-4-l---4-5-l---5-6-l---6-7-l |-|-|x|x|-|
G|-1-2-4-l-2-3-5-l-3-4-6-l-4-5-7-l-5-6-8-l Dorian pattern = |-|x|x|-|x|
D|-0-2-4-l-1-3-5-l-2-4-6-l-3-5-7-l-4-6-8-l |x|-|x|-|x|
A|-0-2-4-l-1-3-5-l-2-4-6-l-3-5-7-l-4-6-8-l |x|-|x|-|x|
E|-0-2-4-l-1-3-5-l-2-4-6-l-3-5-7-l-4-6-8-l |x|-|x|-|x|

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aeolian
A A#/Bb B C C#/Db D D#/Eb
e|-5-----l-6------l-7------l-8-------l-9-------l-10-------l-11-------l
B|---6-8-l---7-10-l---8-11-l---9--12-l---10-13-l----11-14-l----12-15-l
G|-5-7-9-l-6-8-11-l-7-9-12-l-8-10-13-l-9-11-14-l-10-12-15-l-11-13-16-l
D|-5-7-9-l-6-8-11-l-7-9-12-l-8-10-13-l-9-11-14-l-10-12-15-l-11-13-16-l
A|-5-7-8-l-6-8-10-l-7-9-11-l-8-10-12-l-9-11-13-l-10-12-14-l-11-13-15-l
E|-5-7-8-l-6-8-10-l-7-9-11-l-8-10-12-l-9-11-13-l-10-12-14-l-11-13-15-l

E F F#/Gb G G#
e|-0-----l-1-----l-2-----l-3-----l-4-----l |x|-|-|-|-|
B|---1-4-l---2-5-l---3-6-l---4-7-l---5-8-l |-|x|-|x|-|
G|-0-2-5-l-1-3-6-l-2-4-7-l-3-5-8-l-4-6-9-l Aeolian pattern= |x|-|x|-|x|
D|-0-2-5-l-1-3-6-l-2-4-7-l-3-5-8-l-4-6-9-l |x|-|x|-|x|
A|-0-2-4-l-1-3-5-l-2-4-6-l-3-5-7-l-4-6-8-l |x|-|x|x|-|
E|-0-2-4-l-1-3-5-l-2-4-6-l-3-5-7-l-4-6-8-l |x|-|x|x|-|

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Locrian
A A#/Bb B C C#/Db D D#/Eb
e|-5-----l-6-----l-7------l-8-------l-9-------l-10-------l-11-------l
B|---6-8-l---7-9-l---8-10-l---9--11-l---10-12-l----11-13-l----12-14-l
G|-5-7-8-l-6-8-9-l-7-9-10-l-8-10-11-l-9-11-12-l-10-12-13-l-11-13-14-l
D|-5-7-8-l-6-8-9-l-7-9-10-l-8-10-11-l-9-11-12-l-10-12-13-l-11-13-14-l
A|-5-6-8-l-6-7-9-l-7-8-10-l-8-9--11-l-9-10-12-l-10-11-13-l-11-12-14-l
E|-5-6-8-l-6-7-9-l-7-8-10-l-8-9--11-l-9-10-12-l-10-11-13-l-11-12-14-l

E F F#/Gb G G#
e|-0-----l-1-----l-2-----l-3-----l-4-----l |x|-|-|-|-|
B|---1-3-l---2-4-l---3-5-l---4-6-l---5-7-l |-|x|-|x|-|
G|-0-2-3-l-1-3-4-l-2-4-5-l-3-5-6-l-4-6-7-l Locrian pattern= |x|-|x|x|-|
D|-0-2-3-l-1-3-4-l-2-4-5-l-3-5-6-l-4-6-7-l |x|-|x|x|-|
A|-0-1-3-l-1-2-4-l-2-3-5-l-3-4-6-l-4-5-7-l |x|x|-|x|-|
E|-0-1-3-l-1-2-4-l-2-3-5-l-3-4-6-l-4-5-7-l |x|x|-|x|-|

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

The Next lesson will be in how the patterns fit on the fretboard and on where they
fit together.

Any comments or questions, please send to Xaxu on www.Ultimate-Guitar.com


Sorry for how it looks it was better on a text document.

The submit bar won't let it show up right.
#2
Not to bash you or anything, but that lesson doesn't show anything about modes.

IT only tells you the names of the modes. It doesn't tell what makes a mode a mode, or how to use them in musical examples or anything.

It's more a Lookup sheet then a lesson.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Jan 7, 2009,
#3
Quote by xxdarrenxx
Not to bash you or anything, but that lesson doesn't show anything about modes.

IT only tells you the names of the modes. It doesn't tell what makes a mode a mode, or how to use them in musical examples or anything.

It's more a Lookup sheet then a lesson.


I was trying to show the pattern of modes that are on the fretboard, not how they work, someone already made one of those.
#4
Quote by Xaxu
I was trying to show the pattern of modes that are on the fretboard, not how they work, someone already made one of those.


But those patterns are irrelevant as a lesson.

What does this learn me? I can play shapes, but that's it. Shapes = not music.

A lesson, or musical lesson in this case is to learn someone to use something (in music in this case). This doesn't learn you anything musical, it learns you just patterns.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Jan 7, 2009,
#5
To be honest, if anyone who wanted to know about modes looked at that, I'd imagine it would just make them all the more confused.

PS. Use code tags.
#6
Quote by xxdarrenxx
But those patterns are irrelevant as a lesson.

What does this learn me? I can play shapes, but that's it. Shapes = not music.

A lesson, or musical lesson in this case is to learn someone to use something (in music in this case). This doesn't learn you anything musical, it learns you just patterns.


I do agree with you but if you learn both the pattern and what they do then all you have to do is play the pattern on the fretboard instead of trying to memorize:
7modes
12types of each mode
and any number of modulations.

I was just wanting to point out that all the modes fit together into each other. If you want to get technical what i was saying is that if you had just the one pattern that they all make up and put it anywhere you have the mode of where it is. Learn one pattern and you learn all modes except for modulations of that scale.

Im not disagreeing with what your saying about just learning patterns isn't going to help you. On the contrary if you don't put any feeling it just seems humdrum.

My lesson is just like music theory you don't ABSOLUTELY have to know it to play great music i was just putting it out there for those that wanted to know
#7
I couldn't understand that to be honest . Can you have a look at these links, I think they will do a better job.

1) http://www.godrex.com/majormodes.htm

AND

2) http://www.guitarlessonworld.com/lessons/lesson14.htm

I hope these will help .
The cliched "rig" Signature:

ESP LTD EC-1000VBL (EMG-ed)
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Roland Micro-Cube
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Levy's straps
#8
Quote by Xaxu
I do agree with you but if you learn both the pattern and what they do then all you have to do is play the pattern on the fretboard instead of trying to memorize:
7modes
12types of each mode
and any number of modulations.

I was just wanting to point out that all the modes fit together into each other. If you want to get technical what i was saying is that if you had just the one pattern that they all make up and put it anywhere you have the mode of where it is. Learn one pattern and you learn all modes except for modulations of that scale.

Im not disagreeing with what your saying about just learning patterns isn't going to help you. On the contrary if you don't put any feeling it just seems humdrum.

My lesson is just like music theory you don't ABSOLUTELY have to know it to play great music i was just putting it out there for those that wanted to know


You seem to miss the point.


I will make a childish example to explain;

I'm some guy who plays guitar and plays minor pentatonic scales. I'm bored with playing pentatonic wank, so a friend recommends me to check out modes.

I look around and find shapes of modes on the guitar. I check your "lesson" and I learn the patterns. Now I know the patterns, I can play modes woohoo!!

Wrong, you just play C major scale in all it's positions and you are fooled.

It's incomplete as a lesson, and will only mislead people as a lesson. A lesson is something that learns you something. This doesn;t learn you anything, it just SHOWS you something, which is totally irrelevant without context.

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
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The "Good Samaritan" Award 2009 (most helpful)

[font="Palatino Linotype
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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Jan 7, 2009,
#9
Quote by xxdarrenxx
You seem to miss the point.


I will make a childish example to explain;

I'm some guy who plays guitar and plays minor pentatonic scales. I'm bored with playing pentatonic wank, so a friend recommends me to check out modes.

I look around and find shapes of modes on the guitar. I check your "lesson" and I learn the patterns. Now I know the patterns, I can play modes woohoo!!

Wrong, you just play C major scale in all it's positions and you are fooled.

It's incomplete as a lesson, and will only mislead people as a lesson.


Hold up now im confused, am i wrong in assuming that Ionian isn't the Major Scale?

And if it is then Dorian is the Major Scale too?

and Phrygian too?
#10
Quote by Xaxu
Hold up now im confused, am i wrong in assuming that Ionian isn't the Major Scale?

And if it is then Dorian is the Major Scale too?

and Phrygian too?



If you play all those shapes over a C Chord they are all just C Major.

Those shapes only work over special chord progression or harmonic context, and if you have a modal progression then every shape is still 1 mode.

If I play those shapes over a Dm(7) chord, then ALL thoses shapes are still D dorian.

If I play all those shapes over an Em chord then all those shapes are E Phrygian.

And Ionian and Major are not always the same. Major (or minor) suggests the key, while the term Ionian is used when played over a CM7 chord (or modal vamp)

Minor and Aeolian is not always the same either. Minor suggests the key, but it not always Aeolian. Minor can also means progressions built on The Harmonic minor scale or Melodic minor scale, as those are both recognised as "official" minor keys in western and classical music.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Jan 7, 2009,
#11
Quote by xxdarrenxx
If you play all those shapes over a C Chord they are all just C Major.

Those shapes only work over special chord progression or harmonic context, and if you have a modal progression then every shape is still 1 mode.

If I play those shapes over a Dm(7) chord, then ALL thoses shapes are still D dorian.

If I play all those shapes over an Em chord then all those shapes are E Phrygian.


Are we talking about how it goes like

C Dm Em F G Am B

If that was true it would be like this right?
Ionian = C
Dorian = Dm
Phrygian = Em
Lydian = F
Mixolydian = G
Aeolian = Am
Locrian = B

I will also add if your playing this and start at C Ionian the whole scale that you play down is Ionian after that?

what if you start at C Dorian?
Last edited by Xaxu at Jan 7, 2009,
#12
Quote by Xaxu
Are we talking about how it goes like

C Dm Em F G Am B

If that was true it would be like this right?
Ionian = C
Dorian = Dm
Phrygian = Em
Lydian = F
Mixolydian = G
Aeolian = Am
Locrian = B



(I added some stuff to my previous post)

It doesn't tell you how to use them at all.

In a Dm - G - C using those shapes ur still playing in C Major, because the resolvance is to the C chord.

But this is going "off point" again.

The original question was Why isn't it recognized as lesson. Because it's incomplete on the mode subject. Those patterns are merely finger exercises on it's own or the Major scale played in the different positions.

If you play those shapes on their own, then yes they are technically the modes. However they will only be modes if you play those patterns, and who wants to hear you play those patterns all day saying you know the modes?

Must be a pretty tone deaf person or someone with an utterly (Debateable) bad taste in music or someone who wants to sound smart with his "mode knowledge" without the actual understanding of their musical usage and benefits.

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Jan 7, 2009,
#13
Quote by xxdarrenxx
I added some stuff to my previous post;

But it doesn't tell you how to use them at all.

In a Dm - G - C using those shapes ur still playing in C Major, because the resolvance is to the C chord.

But this is going "off point" again.

The original question was Why isn't it recognized as lesson. Because it's incomplete on the mode subject. Those patterns are merely finger exercises on it's own or the Major scale played in the different positions.

If you play those shapes on their own, then yes they are technically the modes. However they will only be modes if you play those patterns, and who wants to hear you play those patterns all day saying you know the modes?

Must be a pretty tone deaf person or someone with an utterly (Debateable) bad taste in music or someone who wants to sound smart with his "mode knowledge" without the actual understanding of their musical usage and benefits.



Ok ok i'll redo the lesson and establish what they are how they work, and how they are made up but just help me along here.

If i start playing from Dorian the whole scale i play from that is Dorian right? same for the others.

What im trying to get at is that Dorian isn't the major scale right? It's an alteration to it a mode in itself. So if im playing in Dorian im no longer in the major scale right?
#14
Quote by Xaxu
Ok ok i'll redo the lesson and establish what they are how they work, and how they are made up but just help me along here.

If i start playing from Dorian the whole scale i play from that is Dorian right? same for the others.

What im trying to get at is that Dorian isn't the major scale right? It's an alteration to it a mode in itself. So if im playing in Dorian im no longer in the major scale right?


Wrong.

If you play the "D dorian Shape" over a C chord your playing in a C major context. Modes work based on the harmonic "counterpoint".

Not to promote, but check out my lessons (in signature) how modes work, what they are, and their usage in vamps.

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Jan 7, 2009,
#15
ok here you posted this part right?

**Dorian** (R, 2, b3, 4, 5, 6, b7)

If in dorian your saying that C would be

C D D# F G A A# C

Right?
#16
Quote by Xaxu
ok here you posted this part right?

**Dorian** (R, 2, b3, 4, 5, 6, b7)

If in dorian your saying that C would be

C D D# F G A A# C

Right?


Technically speaking yes, but you wrote it theoretically wrong.

In Diatonic scale formula's you can't use 2 or more of the same note.

You used D and A twice in writing;
C D D# F G A A# C

It should be: C, D, Eb, F, G, A, Bb.


I don't wanna sound harsh, but I don't wanna explain everything because we have sticky's and lessons for that. You shouldn't contribute lessons to UG yet, because you have some "holes" in ur basic foundation of music theory.

Once again not to bash, but you know; wrong = wrong and right = right.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Jan 7, 2009,
#17
Quote by xxdarrenxx
Technically speaking yes, but you wrote it theoretically wrong.

In Diatonic scale formula's you can't use 2 or more of the same note.

You used D and A twice in writing;
C D D# F G A A# C

It should be: C, D, Eb, F, G, A, Bb.


I don't wanna sound harsh, but I don't wanna explain everything because we have sticky's and lessons for that. You shouldn't contribute lessons to UG yet, because you have some "holes" in ur basic foundation of music theory.

Once again not to bash, but you know; wrong = wrong and right = right.


Im going to go do some more reading and see about this but im pretty sure that's right. And i did know about the double thing i just wasn't thinking about it when i wrote that.

The reason why i asked you if that was right about dorian then if i changed that to a D

D E F G A B C

It would be the same shape just in a different place?


that shape being in dorian
l-10---------|
l-----12-13-l
l-10-12-14-|
l-10-12-14-|
l-10-12-14-|
l-10-12-13-|

which equals

|x|-|-|-|-|
|-|-|x|x|-|
|x|-|x|-|x|
|x|-|x|-|x|
|x|-|x|-|x|
|x|-|x|x|-|

turning that into an E next would be

E F# G A B C# D

Would become

e|-0-----l
B|---2-3-|
G|-0-2-4-l
D|-0-2-4-l
A|-0-2-4-l
E|-0-2-3-|

If that is true were getting somewhere but if it ain't i guess im going to need to dwell further into this

(no offense dude but you seem to be getting a little peeved. Im not arguing with you im trying to figure this out)
#18
^^ offcourse i'm getting a little peeved. You ask stuff that can all be read if you just read the stickied post in this forum.

Just a little though


But please, what has this to do with the original post. Why contribute a lesson if you A; either don't know it well enough, or B; there is already lessons about it.

Now if you think my lesson or other lessons on the subject are not good enough, then write something or suggest something to what you think is unclear.

Right now I think your "lesson" on modes is confusing and misleading.

Writing a lesson about modes and only write down patterns with names will almost 100% imply that people think they know modes after those patterns. Especially with 90% or so of the people thinking in scales.

It's misleading, and helpfull to those who understand modes and are for example pianists who want to play them on guitar or something like that, but this site is for guitarplayers.

I will do a reverse psychology;

What do you think people will learn from ur lesson?
Patterns i'd say, but what do these respresent? THeir use?

Why do you want to teach/learn mode patterns without knowing modes?

Understand what I'm saying? It's incomplete lesson and misleading for those who don't understand the use of modes.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Jan 7, 2009,
#19
Quote by xxdarrenxx
^^ offcourse i'm getting a little peeved. You ask stuff that can all be read if you just read the stickied post in this forum.

Just a little though


But please, what has this to do with the original post. Why contribute a lesson if you A; either don't know it well enough, or B; there is already lessons about it.

Now if you think my lesson or other lessons on the subject are not good enough, then write something or suggest something to what you think is unclear.

Right now I think your "lesson" on modes is confusing and misleading.

Writing a lesson about modes and only write down patterns with names will almost 100% imply that people think they know modes after those patterns. Especially with 90% or so of the people thinking in scales, it's misleading.



I THOUGHT i did know it and i didn't see anything that pertained to it exactly. The thing is im confused on what you have said so far.

In what i wrote in the lesson it goes over what a Mode has in it.(Number wise)

I thought that if you placed the dorian Shape in any place the root note of that place becomes the modes name

I.E. putting it on the third fret of the bottom string would make the shape a G Dorian

that being said the next logical pattern in line would be
Ab Phrygian right?

If that would follow like that. Then the pattern would be a sound idea, if it isn't true than i have no other alternative

What the totallity of the pattern was to show that all the modes lead into the next and that they are connected. Are they not?

(also you never did answer the question on the previous post)


Edit: So your saying what i put down was true it just wasn't explained out and show how it works?
Last edited by Xaxu at Jan 7, 2009,
#20
Technically speaking it's true, but it's incomplete.

Is getting ur lesson on UG more important then the potential misleading of it's use

Why do you think people should know those patterns?

What do I get out of my guitarplaying/songwriting if I learn ur "lesson"/Patterns?

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Jan 7, 2009,
#21
Quote by xxdarrenxx
Technically speaking it's true, but it's incomplete.

Is getting ur lesson on UG more important then the potential misleading of it's use

Why do you think people should know those patterns?

What do I get out of my guitarplaying/songwriting if I learn ur "lesson"?

If you can't answer this then lesson is useless.



Now where getting somewhere, I understand now i need to break down what im saying and explain it more clearly. And i'll post it again to see if it's any better.

I just was hoping that i was right, that the totality pattern was true, in that i wouldn't have to learn all the modes as opposed to learning one big pattern albeit in parts.

I think im about up to it, i just need to know one last thing before i go writing again.

If the pattern is true and i were to place

D Dorian
D E F G A B C

and then right after that the next one

E Phrygian
E F G A B C D

and then after that

F Lydian
F G A B C D E

If that is right and these follow after each other D Then E Then F then if i replaced them with something else the pattern would remain the same but they would be in differnt places on the fretboard

Lastly if all of the above is true then that would cover not only the major scale but all the other modes in one single pattern. one pattern made up of all the modes that is.
#22
Yes, but why do you wanna learn those patterns?

If you play those patterns over a Cmajor chord ur always playing Cmajor or Ionian. Even if you use "mode shapes"

*sigh*
you totally miss the point of modes.

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
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#23
Excuse me, TS, but you shouldn't be writing lessons on modes if you need that much help with the most basic related concepts.

No offense. I don't write lessons on big game hunting.
#24
Quote by xxdarrenxx
Yes, but why do you wanna learn those patterns?

If you play those patterns over a Cmajor chord ur always playing Cmajor or Ionian. Even if you use "mode shapes"

*sigh*
you totally miss the point of modes.



So how do you play Dorian without going into a shape or major scale?

and i never do get what all of you mean when you say "play over Xchord"

And who is TS?
#25
Quote by Xaxu
So how do you play Dorian without going into a shape or major scale?

and i never do get what all of you mean when you say "play over Xchord"

And who is TS?



TS = Threadstarter aka You

Listen to what FREEPOWER said.

You're entire view on modes is wrong.

You describe modes in a way as I would be describing a Car as just metal and paint.

It's so basic ur lesson it lacks any potential use in music or application. People won't get anything out of ur patterns except mediocre finger exercises.

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
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#26
It's a matter of where the tonal center is, which is defined by harmony and melody - neither of which are shapes, but rather ways of combining notes and rhythms. In short, to use D Dorian, you must have a tonal center of D, regardless of shape used.

I suggest you take a few months and just get used to normal major/minor harmony properly before even touching this modal nonsense.
#27
Quote by Freepower
It's a matter of where the tonal center is, which is defined by harmony and melody - neither of which are shapes, but rather ways of combining notes and rhythms. In short, to use D Dorian, you must have a tonal center of D, regardless of shape used.

I suggest you take a few months and just get used to normal major/minor harmony properly before even touching this modal nonsense.


Whoa, whoa, whoa, there is something wrong here, Am i correct in saying that the Modes Dictionary is absolutely true?

Am i wrong to understand that modes are used to shape music differently, Using a pattern of notes to make a certain sound?

Modes are used just what there called for right? Changing "Modes"

Modes are how music sounds inside of it right?
#28
Am i correct in saying that the Modes Dictionary is absolutely true?


No idea, link?

Am i wrong to understand that modes are used to shape music differently, Using a pattern of notes to make a certain sound?


That's an incredibly vague definition. That same definition could apply to "melody" or "sequence" or even "music". You aren't exactly wrong, but you aren't saying anything.

Modes are used just what there called for right? Changing "Modes"


No. They're scales derived by changing the root note of a scale.

Modes are how music sounds inside of it right?


This actually hurts my head. How music sounds "inside of it"? No.
#29
Xaxu, i think you are (still) in no position of writing lessons. If you want write lessons about modes, you should know modes, and how to interpret them very well.

I would recommend you going back to READING lessons...
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