#1
Ok, so I was away from my music class for one day and I missed this, I completely forget how to do them.. I've done them before, but a long time has passed, and I can't remember how, now I have to do 4 Plagal and 4 Perfect cadences. I'm not asking for the answers, I want to know how to actually do it. So could someone explain how, please? It really would help me alot.

For the record, I wasn't there because of the flu.

I have to mark the roman numerals, and I have 2 staves, I have to put one note on the bottom and a triad on the top, that's all I remember.

Seriously, anyone who helps me - I love you.

Just explain how for me how to do Plagal and how to do Perfect. I also recall plagal being I and IV, and Perfect being I and V.
Last edited by Dog-- at Jan 10, 2009,
#2
A plagal cadence goes IV - I, so if we were in the key of C the root note would go F - C
A perfect cadence goes V - I, so if in the key of C, the root would go G - C
#3
How do I figure out the two triads that go on top?

Also - Are your root notes on those two messed around? F - C is 5, and G - C is 4, so wouldn't G - C be Plagal and vise versa?

Just so I'm clear on the root notes, in B+ for example, root notes would be B - E# in Plagal, and B - Fx in Perfect? (or would that last one be B - G?)
#4
^ No he got them correct. Remember your cadence is a resolve and in the case of the plagal and perfect cadences you are returning to the tonic.

If C is the tonic then you are playing in the key of C.
A Plagal cadence would be F to C. This is IV - I because F is the fourth degree in key of C.

A Perfect cadence would be G to C. This is V-I because G is fifth degree in key of C.

You are correct in saying F to C is movement up a fifth but it is also a movement down a fourth.

B to E# (B to F) is a tritone. Bb to F is a plagal movement. In this case F would be the key so you would be moving from Bb to F a movement down of a perfect fourth.

B to E is a perfect cadence. In this case you would be in the key of E and B is the fifth degree of E so you are moving from the V to the I.

Measure it as a return to the tonic.
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at Jan 10, 2009,
#5
So to find the cadences write out your major scale

in C = C D E F G A B C

Plagal is a root movement from the fourth to the tonic. Fourth = F tonic = C. Plagal movement is F to C.

Perfect Cadence is a root movement from the fifth to the tonic. Fifth = G Tonic = C. Perfect movement is G to C.

As to find out what triads you put on top you need to know how to harmonize the major scale. If you harmonize the major scale you get F major triad to C major triad for a Plagal Cadence.
Si
#6
Ok, so know knowing all this, I've got my first question here:

C-

So I've got F# and C# on the bottom staff, then I've got a triad on the top staff with F# A and C# above the F#, and C# E and G# above the C#.

If that's correct, I know the perfect triad is different somehow - how?


I really understand the notes, but still not the triads.

Thanks for all your help by the way.
#7
soooo....

plagal is VI - I

perfect is V - I

what are the others?

and arent there some candences that are supposed to end on V?
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#8
^ Anything to V is an imperfect cadence.
V - vi is an interrupted cadence.

And V - IV should never be done, as it is considered a weak progression.
#9
Quote by musicTHEORYnerd
soooo....

plagal is VI - I

perfect is V - I

what are the others?

and arent there some candences that are supposed to end on V?


There are "Deceptive" cadences.

like IV - V - *

You'd expect the tonic, but you end on another chord.

It's characterised by resolving from a V to a chord other then the I.

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#10
thanks alot to the 2 guys above me =]
i wrote it down in my notebook so i can make some cool progressions.

thanks =]
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#11
Quote by Dog--
Ok, so know knowing all this, I've got my first question here:

C-

So I've got F# and C# on the bottom staff, then I've got a triad on the top staff with F# A and C# above the F#, and C# E and G# above the C#.

If that's correct, I know the perfect triad is different somehow - how?


I really understand the notes, but still not the triads.

Thanks for all your help by the way.

The perfect cadence would be from your V chord to your I chord. Using your example of an F# to C# plagal, you'd be in the key of C#. That means your bass notes would be G# to C# and the top would be G# B# D# to C# E# G#

Is that what you're asking?
#12
Well first, I'd like to know if I'm correct.

Secondly, the perfect cadences don't progress from the plagal, they are their own thing, have to write 4 perfect and 4 plagal, all separately, C- F+ G- and D+ as plagals and A- Bb+ C- and F#- as perfects.

So If I'm right on those plagals I just wrote (I hope I am, because if I am I finally get it), I'll try an example for perfect, tell me if I'm correct, please.

A- (Perfect)

So the two bottom notes are D# and A, and the triads.. I know they are not written the same way as the plagal triads I just did, they are different somehow, that's what I was asking.

Again, thanks all for helping me.. I still have tomorrow to finish the booklet thing, and once I get these perfects (and assuming I'm right on those plagals), I'll be done in no time.
Last edited by Dog-- at Jan 10, 2009,
#13
Quote by musicTHEORYnerd
soooo....

plagal is IV - I

perfect is V - I

what are the others?

and arent there some candences that are supposed to end on V?
fixed^

Okay Dog--

Plagal cadence is a root movement of IV - I. The triads are built on the root by harmonizing the major scale. The IV in the major scale is a major triad and the I is a major triad.

So in the key of C it would be some voicing of the notes F A C (which is an F major triad) moving to some voicing of C E G (which is a C major chord). Usually the bass would drop from F to C and each of the upper triad notes would move as little as possible to become one of the notes of hte C chord (i.e. the A would move down a step to the G the F would move down a half step to the E and the C would remain as is to become the new root.

If you want to hear an example of a plagal cadence search You Tube for I'm So Tired - The Beatles and the part where he says "I'll give you everything I've got for a little piece of mind!" is an excellent example of a plagal cadence in use.

For the Perfect Cadence do the same thing the bass note follows the root movement and the rest of the notes move in as little amount as possible to become notes of the new triad.

Hope this helps. Good Luck.
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at Jan 11, 2009,
#14
C-

So I've got F# and C# on the bottom staff, then I've got a triad on the top staff with F# A and C# above the F#, and C# E and G# above the C#.


First off, is that correct?

Second - sorry again, but I really don't understand what you mean about the perfect triads..
#15
Quote by Dog--
C-??

So I've got F# and C# on the bottom staff, then I've got a triad on the top staff with F# A and C# above the F#, and C# E and G# above the C#.
Well almost. Both those triads are minor.
This looks correct if you're going for a plagal cadence in C#minor. (you wrote C- and I don't understand that). I imagine you could use F# major to C# minor but it's not essential F# minor to C# minor is typical I believe.

If you are going for a plagal cadence in C# major then it would be F# major (F# A# C#) to C# major (C# E# G#)

Quote by Dog--

If that's correct, I know the perfect triad is different somehow - how?

The perfect cadence has three rules It is V-I. Both are in root position. The melody ends on the tonic. If one of these is wrong then it is "imperfect".

In a minor key however the naturally occuring dominant is minor in quality (minor). In order to achieve the same sense of finality found in the major key the naturally occuring minor dominant chord is replaced by a Major dominant chord (resulting in the harmonic minor scale).

So in Cm it would be G major to Cm. The melody would also resolve to C and both chords would be in root position. This would give a perfect cadence in Cm.

So in C major Plagal = F# - C#; Perfect = G# - C#
and in C minor Plagal = F#m - C#m; Perfect = G# - C#m

Remember in the perfect cadence the melody (top voice) ends on C.
Si
#16
Quote by 20Tigers

The perfect cadence has three rules It is V-I. Both are in root position. The melody ends on the tonic. If one of these is wrong then it is "imperfect".


You forgot that the last chord has to be in a strong beat.
Also when the melody is on top it means it's in "8ve position"...


Cadences have a lot of ways to classify them.
You can classify them by the harmonic functions that act in them.
You can classify them if there is a function substitution and where, etc...

When a simple cadence ends on the tonic, you can have a dominant cadence or a plagal cadence.
If then last chord is the tonic (I) it is Authentic.
If the last chord is a function of the tonic (III-VI) it is broken or deceptive
If one of the other harmonic functions has a substitution you say there is one, like "Plagal cadence with substitution" or something like that..


Perfect and imperfect are other classifications and depend on the context of the cadence, and the characteristics are the ones 20Tigers said.
But for other types of cadences (artificial, phrigian, 2nd or 1st species, etc) there are other characteristics for it to be considered perfect...


Oh, I forgot, if the cadence ends in a harmonic function (or substitution of a function) other than the tonic it is considered a "semicadence", and all the "broken" "authentic" "perfect" etc rules apply to them too..
Last edited by gonzaw at Jan 11, 2009,
#17
Quote by gonzaw
...
If then last chord is the tonic (I) it is Authentic.
If the last chord is a function of the tonic (III or VI) it is broken or deceptive...

^fixed - it is also sometimes called an interrupted cadence
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at Jan 11, 2009,
#18
Okay Dog--

Plagal cadence is a root movement of IV - I. The triads are built on the root by harmonizing the major scale. The IV in the major scale is a major triad and the I is a major triad.

So in the key of C it would be some voicing of the notes F A C (which is an F major triad) moving to some voicing of C E G (which is a C major chord). Usually the bass would drop from F to C and each of the upper triad notes would move as little as possible to become one of the notes of hte C chord (i.e. the A would move down a step to the G the F would move down a half step to the E and the C would remain as is to become the new root.

If you want to hear an example of a plagal cadence search You Tube for I'm So Tired - The Beatles and the part where he says "I'll give you everything I've got for a little piece of mind!" is an excellent example of a plagal cadence in use.

For the Perfect Cadence do the same thing the bass note follows the root movement and the rest of the notes move in as little amount as possible to become notes of the new triad.

Hope this helps. Good Luck.



e|------------------------------------
b|-----------------------------------
g|---2---0---------------------------
d|---3---2-----------------------------
a|---3---3-----------------------------
E|-------------------------------------

would this be correct or more like a inversion....
would it have to be in the order you posted

(FAC) (CEG)?

or does it matter?
#19
ok, so for c minor.. key signature 4 sharps, f, c, g, and d.

Root notes are f# and c#

Triads above are f a c and c e g - this correct?

I'd really like some easier to understand explanations here, guys. Honestly, I don't need to know about imperfects and all that yet, you're all just confusing me further.
Last edited by Dog-- at Jan 12, 2009,
#20
Did you read post #15? I thought it was pretty straight forward as far as explanations go. I really thought I'd understood where you were at when I posted that one.

A perfect cadence is a term often used to describe a "Perfect Authentic Cadence." It describes a dominant triad (that is a triad built off the 5th degree of the scale) resolving to the tonic as a final resolution to end a phrase or section of music.

The dominant triad is major and can often be a seventh chord. In a minor key the tonic is a minor chord. In a major key the tonic is a major chord.

For the V-I cadence to be considered a "Perfect" cadence the chords must both be in root position - this means the bass note is the root note. For the cadence to be perfect the melody (highest voice) must end on the tonic note.

So from highest to lowest you might use this as an example of a perfect cadence in C major: (C major - no sharps or flats in key signature)
(G7) - (C)
  F  -  C
  D  -  E
  B  -  G
  G  -  C

So we are using triads from the key of C major. The cadence sees us move from V7 (G7) to I (C).
We also have the melody ending on C.
Both triads are in root position (i.e. the bass note is G to C)

In the key of C minor the harmonized triad on the fifth degree is Gm. However we use G major moving to C minor this time.


Plagal Cadence is IV to I. The extra rules that apply to the perfect cadence do not apply to the Plagal Cadence. The plagal cadence is just a IV triad to I triad.

In the key of C major it would be F major to C major. In the key of C minor it would be F minor to C minor.
Si
#21
Ok, I think I got the plagal (again tell me if I'm right).

C minor (4 sharps, F C G and D)

So after I write the key signature of those 4 sharps, I would put F on the bottom staff, and I would put C on the bottom staff.

Above those two bass notes: For F I would put F Ab C (minor is 1 b3 5, yes?), and for C, I would put C Eb G.

And say if I did a perfect cadence of the same key, I would put G and C on the bottom staff, and the triad above G would be G Bb C, and for C it would be C Eb F?
#22
Quote by Dog--
Ok, I think I got the plagal (again tell me if I'm right).

C minor (4 sharps, F C G and D)

So after I write the key signature of those 4 sharps, I would put F on the bottom staff, and I would put C on the bottom staff.

Above those two bass notes: For F I would put F Ab C (minor is 1 b3 5, yes?), and for C, I would put C Eb G.
you wouldn't need to notate the A as a flat since the key signature will automatically make the F and C both sharps and F# A C# = F#m.

Same with the C#m chord (the tonic)- there would be no tags necessary just notes on the C E and G lines since C and G will be read as sharp because of the key signature and the E natural is a minor third above C#.


Quote by Dog--
And say if I did a perfect cadence of the same key, I would put G and C on the bottom staff, and the triad above G would be G Bb C, and for C it would be C Eb F?
A Perfect Cadence in the same key would see you put notes on lines G B and C with a sharp next to the B. The G and C will already be sharp because of the key signature. Because in a perfect cadence in a minor key we want the V chord to be major. A major third above G# = B#. In the key signature of Cm the B is naturally natural so a # on that B is necessary.

Above the C bass you would have notes on the C E F lines (no need for any tags since the key signature takes care of the sharps here also.)
You should also include a C on the highest line.

The melody line in a Perfect Cadence always ends on the tonic (C in the case of Cm). So there should be a C at the top of the pile to make it perfect.
Si
Last edited by 20Tigers at Jan 13, 2009,