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#1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlfhoU66s4Y

I thought you guys should give it a listen.

A song for Gaza by Michael Heart. I have great adulation for this man who is trying to make a difference through this piece of heartfelt music and I hope everyone out their who believes in helping the Palestinians is doing something to help, regardless of how simple it is. I hope Gaza will be liberated as soon as possible and be rid of this tyranny.
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#3
I think that hating Israel is the trendy thing to do, and that he will make more money off of that song then if he had written a protest song on something else.
#4
Quote by imicius
I think that hating Israel is the trendy thing to do, and that he will make more money off of that song then if he had written a protest song on something else.


I get your point, that is always a possible interpretation of the composition of this song, but I would just assume the best and not judge someone I don't know.
TESTAMENT, SCAR SYMMETRY......SELF EXPLANATORY


ALEX SKOLNICK, PER NILSSON........ADULATION MANDATORY


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Member#25 of the IRON MAIDEN ARE GODS CLUB. PM Revelations to Join
#5
i thought it was a tribute to "the Gza", like he died. but yea, this is sad too
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#6
Quote by imicius
I think that hating Israel is the trendy thing to do, and that he will make more money off of that song then if he had written a protest song on something else.


Is it? Look at the American Media and political discourse.
#7
Quote by Joshrocker48
Is it? Look at the American Media and political discourse.

+1

Apparently you're not allowed to speak up against genocide if its being perpetrated by Jews...
kill all humans
#8
I wonder how come no one did a tribute to Israel and all the lives we lost, all the people that were hurt, during the recent bombings and during all the terrorist acts throughout the years.

All I know Spielberg did a movie called "Minchen(SP?)", tell me if something else has happened.

And why do people think Israel just wants to kill the Palestinians?

And how come people only look at numbers, not at the motive each party has to attack the opposite force(Hammas: Wiping out Israelis, Israelis: Protecting it's citizens).

And dont give me that "Hamas" are freedom fighters bull****, Israel was formed fare and square and a country for both Palestinians and Israelies, they are the ones who hated our guts, they attacked us and we won them in the Independence War fare and square, not to mention that most of the Gaza strip residents suffer from them aswell.
Purple string dampener scrunchy.
#10
Quote by Guitar0player
I wonder how come no one did a tribute to Israel and all the lives we lost, all the people that were hurt, during the recent bombings and during all the terrorist acts throughout the years.

All I know Spielberg did a movie called "Minchen(SP?)", tell me if something else has happened.

And why do people think Israel just wants to kill the Palestinians?

And how come people only look at numbers, not at the motive each party has to attack the opposite force(Hammas: Wiping out Israelis, Israelis: Protecting it's citizens).

And dont give me that "Hamas" are freedom fighters bull****, Israel was formed fare and square and a country for both Palestinians and Israelies, they are the ones who hated our guts, they attacked us and we won them in the Independence War fare and square, not to mention that most of the Gaza strip residents suffer from them aswell.


I get what you mean man, I had a good friend who died fighting Hamas in this war, war is bull**** and neither side has the upper moral ground, and I think that Hamas shooting rockets into Israel for years is some justification for the war. It's like being stabbed with a needle for years and years and years, one day you're going to react and beat the person responsible.
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#11
terrible song, honestly.


Anyway,
Israel should not be a state. It was made by the U.S. and it's allies after WW2 to prove some bible bull****.
#12
Quote by Guitar0player
I wonder how come no one did a tribute to Israel and all the lives we lost, all the people that were hurt, during the recent bombings and during all the terrorist acts throughout the years.

All I know Spielberg did a movie called "Minchen(SP?)", tell me if something else has happened.

And why do people think Israel just wants to kill the Palestinians?

And how come people only look at numbers, not at the motive each party has to attack the opposite force(Hammas: Wiping out Israelis, Israelis: Protecting it's citizens).

And dont give me that "Hamas" are freedom fighters bull****, Israel was formed fare and square and a country for both Palestinians and Israelies, they are the ones who hated our guts, they attacked us and we won them in the Independence War fare and square, not to mention that most of the Gaza strip residents suffer from them aswell.



Israel was created fair and square, eh?

Me thinks that after WW2 the U.S. and it's allies created Israel to realize a prophecy in the bible, and to give the jewish population of the world a place to go after having genocide carried out on them.
#13
Quote by say-10
Anyway,
Israel should not be a state. It was made by the U.S. and it's allies after WW2 to prove some bible bull****.

It was to help fulfill Biblical prophecies, actually. In the Bible, when it describes Armageddon and the end of days and all that jazz, Israel is mentioned. Therefore, in order for those prophecies to come true, evangelical Christians in positions of power, primarily in the US, though in other nations as well, decided that Israel needs to exist. So they made it.

Outside of religion, there is absolutely no basis for defending the existence of Israel. And if you do use religion, it's pretty much a "my God is bigger than your God" sort of deal. It's tragic.
kill all humans
#14
Quote by alaskan_ninja
It was to help fulfill Biblical prophecies, actually. In the Bible, when it describes Armageddon and the end of days and all that jazz, Israel is mentioned. Therefore, in order for those prophecies to come true, evangelical Christians in positions of power, primarily in the US, though in other nations as well, decided that Israel needs to exist. So they made it.

Outside of religion, there is absolutely no basis for defending the existence of Israel. And if you do use religion, it's pretty much a "my God is bigger than your God" sort of deal. It's tragic.


That's what I said, just in a shorter way.

There is no legal justification for it at all. Without America, Israel would not be on the map. America swings from the nutsack of Israel because of the bible, and christians in power, but in reality, it should be the opposite. Israel owes us everything. Their military, their sovereignty, their existence.
#15
Israel never should of existed....


And to the guy with the needle point, exactly...Just the other way around...

When the Israeli gov't opresses the Palestinian people into a forced poverty, you should expect them to get pissed off. Gaza is a ****ty place to be. 75% of ppl there are without electricity. The school failure rate is 80%. I don't even want to get into unemployment, because that stuff is sky high. And worst of all, Israel has this whole blockade on it so people can't get help. They opened fire on a Red Cross vehicle coming to give supplies to civillians. This isn't a reaction to some rockets, this is a full out genocide. The Israeli leaders won't be happy until Palestinians are wiped from the planet.

A real good analogy to this is the US and how it took the land from the Native Americans in the aspect of, wouldn't you expect them to be pissed about you taking their land? America killed off Native Americans like crazy to get rid of them and this is the same. The Palestinian ppl fully have a right to be angry.

But the worst things about this is that its all about what Hamas, a select group is doing, that has killed, what, 4 people? So what does Israel do? Attack ALL Palestinians for the actions of a few. Killing Hundred....

Dunno about the kdr, but for awhile it was like, 250 palestinians killed for every israeli.

Lets this be clear, Israel is the opressor and the Palestinians are the opressed. I'm proud to support these people. I do what I can, donate a dollar here and there to help those children over there whow ill never have the opportunity that their israeli neighbors have.

Israel has always been a racist state, I mean it wasn't until the late 80s that they removed special license plates on vehicles of non-jewish people.

Real shame. A people that were so horrendously murdered and persecuted in the 40s go and do the same to another group so soon after. Thats what this all is...Murder...
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#16
Quote by say-10
That's what I said, just in a shorter way.

There is no legal justification for it at all. Without America, Israel would not be on the map. America swings from the nutsack of Israel because of the bible, and christians in power, but in reality, it should be the opposite. Israel owes us everything. Their military, their sovereignty, their existence.

But yet we continue to fund them. And we gave them nukes. Not to mention other weapons. Which they use to kill Arabs. That's why Mr. Osama bin Laden decided to hire a few people to crash a few airplanes into some of our buildings, because he was pissed that we were funding an illegal state that used these funds to attack Muslims.

That's not even the only way our support of Israel is coming back to bite us in the ass. Since we gave Israel nukes, but officially they haven't acknowledged that they have them and they don't allow UN weapons inspectors to look at them, we really don't have any basis to deny Iran the right to enrich uranium. We just look like hypocrites. Even if Iran is only enriching uranium for fuel it still would be best if they allowed inspectors, but understandably they just point to Israel and say "Hey, if they can have nukes without being inspected, why can't we have uranium?"

But the US still presses sanctions against Iran, and more and more Muslims look at it, and understandably they see the US waging a war against Islam, so they join al-Qaeda to get back at us. And then we bomb some random country and piss them off further.

In a way, I actually hope that Barack Obama is secretly a Muslim. If he is, he certainly isn't going to keep pissing them off and endangering American lives in the process.


Wow, that went a little off-topic. Sorry.

Edit:
Quote by TunerAddict
Israel never should of existed....


And to the guy with the needle point, exactly...Just the other way around...

When the Israeli gov't opresses the Palestinian people into a forced poverty, you should expect them to get pissed off. Gaza is a ****ty place to be. 75% of ppl there are without electricity. The school failure rate is 80%. I don't even want to get into unemployment, because that stuff is sky high. And worst of all, Israel has this whole blockade on it so people can't get help. They opened fire on a Red Cross vehicle coming to give supplies to civillians. This isn't a reaction to some rockets, this is a full out genocide. The Israeli leaders won't be happy until Palestinians are wiped from the planet.

A real good analogy to this is the US and how it took the land from the Native Americans in the aspect of, wouldn't you expect them to be pissed about you taking their land? America killed off Native Americans like crazy to get rid of them and this is the same. The Palestinian ppl fully have a right to be angry.

But the worst things about this is that its all about what Hamas, a select group is doing, that has killed, what, 4 people? So what does Israel do? Attack ALL Palestinians for the actions of a few. Killing Hundred....

Dunno about the kdr, but for awhile it was like, 250 palestinians killed for every israeli.

Lets this be clear, Israel is the opressor and the Palestinians are the opressed. I'm proud to support these people. I do what I can, donate a dollar here and there to help those children over there whow ill never have the opportunity that their israeli neighbors have.

Israel has always been a racist state, I mean it wasn't until the late 80s that they removed special license plates on vehicles of non-jewish people.

Real shame. A people that were so horrendously murdered and persecuted in the 40s go and do the same to another group so soon after. Thats what this all is...Murder...

Yes.
kill all humans
Last edited by alaskan_ninja at Jan 13, 2009,
#17
Quote by alaskan_ninja
But yet we continue to fund them. And we gave them nukes. Not to mention other weapons. Which they use to kill Arabs. That's why Mr. Osama bin Laden decided to hire a few people to crash a few airplanes into some of our buildings, because he was pissed that we were funding an illegal state that used these funds to attack Muslims.

That's not even the only way our support of Israel is coming back to bite us in the ass. Since we gave Israel nukes, but officially they haven't acknowledged that they have them and they don't allow UN weapons inspectors to look at them, we really don't have any basis to deny Iran the right to enrich uranium. We just look like hypocrites. Even if Iran is only enriching uranium for fuel it still would be best if they allowed inspectors, but understandably they just point to Israel and say "Hey, if they can have nukes without being inspected, why can't we have uranium?"

But the US still presses sanctions against Iran, and more and more Muslims look at it, and understandably they see the US waging a war against Islam, so they join al-Qaeda to get back at us. And then we bomb some random country and piss them off further.

In a way, I actually hope that Barack Obama is secretly a Muslim. If he is, he certainly isn't going to keep pissing them off and endangering American lives in the process.


Wow, that went a little off-topic. Sorry.

Edit:

Yes.



I've been hoping that too....Sucks he isn't though...
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers

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#18
Israel was actually created by the British not the U.S first of all and second of all it wasn't to fulfill some biblical prophecy like some less intelligent people in this thread are saying it was as a favor to the Jews because Chaim Weizmann helped the British with weapons during WW2 and in return he requested that the British government consider the establishment of a Jewish state in the (already occupied by the way) land that is modern day Israel. Also how can you even call it Genocide it's not like Israel is trying to wipe all the Palestinians off the face of the earth, they are trying to get rid of a racist extremist government you're clearly buying into all this media bull**** about Israel being at wrong here, you can't look at the numbers and say oh Israel has killed more Palestinians therefore they're at wrong, Hamas ****ing establishes its bases in the middle of civilian territory so that Israel kills civilians while attacking them and then Israel gets portrayed as the bad guy by the media and this creates the kind of hate that is clearly present here.
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#20
Quote by alaskan_ninja
^Use coherent sentences, and then maybe someone will take your argument seriously.


Nice, criticize my sentence structure instead of offering some kind of counter-argument.
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#21
Quote by lemon
Israel was actually created by the British not the U.S first of all and second of all it wasn't to fulfill some biblical prophecy like some less intelligent people in this thread are saying it was as a favor to the Jews because Chaim Weizmann helped the British with weapons during WW2 and in return he requested that the British government consider the establishment of a Jewish state in the (already occupied by the way) land that is modern day Israel. Also how can you even call it Genocide it's not like Israel is trying to wipe all the Palestinians off the face of the earth, they are trying to get rid of a racist extremist government you're clearly buying into all this media bull**** about Israel being at wrong here, you can't look at the numbers and say oh Israel has killed more Palestinians therefore they're at wrong, Hamas ****ing establishes its bases in the middle of civilian territory so that Israel kills civilians while attacking them and then Israel gets portrayed as the bad guy by the media and this creates the kind of hate that is clearly present here.



Lulz...


Actually Israel was created by a UN mandate...So...kinda fail on your part...

There is social, economic, and physical oppression from the Israeli gov't on the Palestinians.

And the media is all anti palestine, so I don't know what you're watching...

Hamas is the elected officials, so one would expect an elected branch of the gov't to be in the ****ing public areas. Durp.


Edit: I'm going to bed. Will continue this tomorrow. Of course this is extremely pointless as none of us will change our minds because we are set in out beliefs.
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers

If women can be annoyed there arent any women incongress I should be allowed to be pissed off there are no members of pink floyd or the beatles in congress.
Last edited by TunerAddict at Jan 13, 2009,
#22
Quote by lemon
Israel was actually created by the British not the U.S first of all and second of all it wasn't to fulfill some biblical prophecy like some less intelligent people in this thread are saying it was as a favor to the Jews because Chaim Weizmann helped the British with weapons during WW2 and in return he requested that the British government consider the establishment of a Jewish state in the (already occupied by the way) land that is modern day Israel. Also how can you even call it Genocide it's not like Israel is trying to wipe all the Palestinians off the face of the earth, they are trying to get rid of a racist extremist government you're clearly buying into all this media bull**** about Israel being at wrong here, you can't look at the numbers and say oh Israel has killed more Palestinians therefore they're at wrong, Hamas ****ing establishes its bases in the middle of civilian territory so that Israel kills civilians while attacking them and then Israel gets portrayed as the bad guy by the media and this creates the kind of hate that is clearly present here.


First of all, the U.S. was a HUGE factor in establishing the Israeli state. The British did occupy Israel after WW2, but the U.S. runs the U.N., and the U.N. is who said "Hey Britain, let's give the Jews a state all their own, pull out!" You don't create a state as repayment to one man. It sure as hell was occupied, by Arabs, just as it has been for a long time, until the illegal creation of Israel. Look at the immigration numbers of Jews coming into "Israel" after the war in 1948... just go look.

That's right, it's huge, because before then Arabs lived there, not Jews.

Now, I DO agree with you about Hamas and the casualties. All is fair in war. If they are attacking you, you do not slap them on the wrist, you utterly destroy them.

BUT, and this is a big "but", Israel needs to recognize that Hamas was voted into power by a majority. Israel needs to recognize that and work with them as a national government. That will go a long way in securing peace.
Last edited by say-10 at Jan 13, 2009,
#23
Both sides are to blame in this war, and considering how it's been going for thousands of years I doubt it will ever stop.
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#24
Quote by lemon
Hamas are not the elected officials actually they are a militant group, Fatah is the elected party and i'm done with this argument there's no point in trying to change any of your opinion.



No, you're wrong bro.

Hamas is elected. Fatah lost the election to Hamas, which pissed Israel and the US off. That is why Israel started the most recent blockade of the Gaza strip because they won't accept Hamas as a legitimate leading party.
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers

If women can be annoyed there arent any women incongress I should be allowed to be pissed off there are no members of pink floyd or the beatles in congress.
#25
I do believe that this is a pointless war and that both sides are in the wrong here but lets face it Hamas clearly doesn't want peace, they want to obliterate Israel, if they honestly want peace they would make the effort to achieve it and I don't see any indication that they are going to in the future. Also just as a reference note Hamas is classified as a terrorist organization and while they are the elected party in power I really don't think that they were legitimately voted in and I invite anyone to prove me otherwise.

edit: ^Yeah I know i'm wrong sorry it's late but the point is I don't see why Israel should respect Hamas as a legitimate party while they still refuse to acknowledge Israel's right to exist and while yes Israel was brought into existence by somewhat questionable methods the fact of the matter is that it is now a legitimate state and that's not changing anytime soon so Hamas is going to have to realize that if they want this fighting to end.
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Last edited by lemon at Jan 13, 2009,
#26
Quote by TunerAddict
No, you're wrong bro.

Hamas is elected. Fatah lost the election to Hamas, which pissed Israel and the US off. That is why Israel started the most recent blockade of the Gaza strip because they won't accept Hamas as a legitimate leading party.

This. Finally, someone who actually knows what is going on.


Calling Hamas a terrorist organization is like saying that the American Democratic Party is one. They won the elections, fair and square.

Edit:
Quote by lemon
I do believe that this is a pointless war and that both sides are in the wrong here but lets face it Hamas clearly doesn't want peace, they want to obliterate Israel, if they honestly want peace they would make the effort to achieve it and I don't see any indication that they are going to in the future. Also just as a reference note Hamas is classified as a terrorist organization and while they are the elected party in power I really don't think that they were legitimately voted in and I invite anyone to prove me otherwise.

edit: ^Yeah I know i'm wrong sorry it's late but the point is I don't see why Israel should respect Hamas as a legitimate party while they still refuse to acknowledge Israel's right to exist and while yes Israel was brought into existence by somewhat questionable methods the fact of the matter is that it is now a legitimate state and that's not changing anytime soon so Hamas is going to have to realize that if they want this fighting to end.

So by your argument, it's ok to subvert democracy if the party that wins doesn't support your agenda? Hamas won the elections, face it. They most accurately reflect the views of the Palestinian people.
kill all humans
Last edited by alaskan_ninja at Jan 13, 2009,
#27
Quote by lemon
I do believe that this is a pointless war and that both sides are in the wrong here but lets face it Hamas clearly doesn't want peace, they want to obliterate Israel, if they honestly want peace they would make the effort to achieve it and I don't see any indication that they are going to in the future. Also just as a reference note Hamas is classified as a terrorist organization and while they are the elected party in power I really don't think that they were legitimately voted in and I invite anyone to prove me otherwise.

edit: ^Yeah I know i'm wrong sorry it's late but the point is I don't see why Israel should respect Hamas as a legitimate party while they still refuse to acknowledge Israel's right to exist and while yes Israel was brought into existence by somewhat questionable methods the fact of the matter is that it is now a legitimate state and that's not changing anytime soon so Hamas is going to have to realize that if they want this fighting to end.



Yea, I see what you're saying. Hamas in general are over zealous and their refusal to move on their "ideals" only hurts the Palestinians. Sucks. I don't blame the people, it isn't their fault. Its the gov't of both of these groups that are ****ing it all up. Hamas deff ****s **** up the worst though in their inability to lay down their weapons and do whats best for the Palestinian people, they are too happy to be martyrs...

However, they were really legitimately elected. Really easy to see why. They are basically the only people that really give a **** about the Palestinians, and in return, they love them. I mean, Gaza is a **** hole. It sucks. And for noone to really give a **** besides Hamas, they are definitely gonna have some major pull with the people.
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers

If women can be annoyed there arent any women incongress I should be allowed to be pissed off there are no members of pink floyd or the beatles in congress.
#28
What are you lot on? Hamas have asked for talks and a cease fire. It's Israel that's doing the destruction, blockades and genocide.
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#29
Quote by Cal UK
What are you lot on? Hamas have asked for talks and a cease fire. It's Israel that's doing the destruction, blockades and genocide.


I think Lemon lives in Israel, so he doesn't really understand that because Palestine and Hamas is only talked about negatively there.
#30
Hamas definitely isn't the ideal party, but they are portrayed as much worse than they truly are. The disgustingly anti-Palestinian bias in the media portrays every rocket attack as a terrible act of terrorism even though most land harmlessly in uninhabited areas, while they say that somehow Israel's massacre of Gazan civilians is justified. It's messed up.
kill all humans
#31
Quote by say-10
I think Lemon lives in Israel, so he doesn't really understand that because Palestine and Hamas is only talked about negatively there.


Yep of course I live in Israel I just put my location as Quebec to throw off the less savvy people on this forum, clearly you are not one of them.
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#32
Quote by lemon
Yep of course I live in Israel I just put my location as Quebec to throw off the less savvy people on this forum, clearly you are not one of them.

I could have swore you said you lived in Israel earlier in the thread.

My bad.
#33
Quote by alaskan_ninja
Hamas definitely isn't the ideal party, but they are portrayed as much worse than they truly are. The disgustingly anti-Palestinian bias in the media portrays every rocket attack as a terrible act of terrorism even though most land harmlessly in uninhabited areas, while they say that somehow Israel's massacre of Gazan civilians is justified. It's messed up.


Say that when a rocket falls on your house/school full of kids/street full of people ETC.

Seriously, Israeli citizens worth less than Palestinians? What we are not people?

With all due respect I love in Israel, I live within the bombing range, I know what is going on, hell I hear rockets falling every ****ing week.
Purple string dampener scrunchy.
Last edited by Guitar0player at Jan 13, 2009,
#34
Quote by Guitar0player
Say that when a rocket falls on your house/school full of kids/street full of people ETC.

When has that ever happened?

Israel, on the other hand, dropped a bomb on a school. Filled with children. Run by the UN. WTF is up with that?
kill all humans
#35
Quote by alaskan_ninja
When has that ever happened?

Israel, on the other hand, dropped a bomb on a school. Filled with children. Run by the UN. WTF is up with that?


Whilst the Hamas sent a rocket to Ashdod, killed a woman, sent multiple rockets to Sderot, wounded multiple people and killed multiple people.

You talk as though we are not human.

A rocket, fell less than two miles away from MY ****ING HOUSE, INSIDE A HOUSE, NEARLY KILLED A ****ING FAMILY.
Purple string dampener scrunchy.
#36
OH NOES, THEY KILLED A WIMMINZ!!!

Because that's so terrible, but to kill more than 900 in a few weeks is ok?
kill all humans
#37
Damn both of these religious controlled states. Let them squabble over pointless ****, no matter what anyone does they'll never come to peace because of religious differences.
#38
Quote by alaskan_ninja
OH NOES, THEY KILLED A WIMMINZ!!!

Because that's so terrible, but to kill more than 900 in a few weeks is ok?


Yes but Israeli army doesnt kill innocent people on purpose, the Hamas does.

So what you're saying it's not important that Israeli women, children and people are killed?

You racist pig.

Quote by Scout1011
Damn both of these religious controlled states. Let them squabble over pointless ****, no matter what anyone does they'll never come to peace because of religious differences.


The fight is about territory, not religion.
Purple string dampener scrunchy.
#39
Quote by Guitar0player
Yes but Israeli army doesnt kill innocent people on purpose, the Hamas does.

So what you're saying it's not important that Israeli women, children and people are killed?

You racist pig.


The fight is about territory, not religion.

Rights to this territory based on different religious ideas

e:/ therefore meaning no logic will ever prevail in relations between the two states
Last edited by Scout1011 at Jan 13, 2009,
#40
It's like the Rhineland all over again! OH NOES!

And you can partially blame the UK of the 1920s for this after forbidding Jews to live in Gaza.
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