#1
i know this is a political issue, but hey what the hell, its not strictly a political issue
don't mean to make any HUGE waves here but:

why is it that nowadays every one seems to think that our government (i guess U.S, but i mean any country in general) needs to have more power and more involvement in our lifes?
i know that at least the U.S. is going through a tough economic time, to which i think means that we should have more involvement, but i'm just talking more of a general spectrum
truly, i wouldn't mind if we had an actual government that cared for its people instead of about themselves
do you really want your retirement handled by the government?
do you want your very own health covered by the government?
i sure as hell wouldn't, because they have soley squandared almost every thing they handled
expamples?

social security-look what happens when the government babies your retirement fund, and the worst part is that many people will not even be able to get half of what they paid into this thing

postal service-i'm sorry, but i personally noticed just in general how much better Fedex/UPS/DHL are than the normal USPS
there's many more obviously but those are just the main ones

now i realize that on the other side their is busines which has been corrupted and has cheated us just as much as our government has in many situations, i'm not fully endorsing business over government
i think its a balance of both, i think that with (what is inevitable now with the way our companies have been exposed over the last couple months) stricter regulation with the sole purpose of keeping the customer safe from being cheated paired with a free market economy would prosper
(a.k.a. later Clinton years)
Overall, give me your take on government involvment
i'd like to know
(also keep this respectful)
Quote by progbass
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#3
Because people are pussies and need the government to do everything for them.
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#4
Quote by Say Ocean
political thread



lmfao.

+1
Free at last! Free at last! God Almighty FREE AT LAST!
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#7
Because people want fancy shmancy things like DRUG LAWS and GUN CONTROL and FOOD STAMPS.

Personally, I blame it on the Jews

Supedit: +4 to the political thread!!
#8
i want my healthcare regulated by the government. hence free health care - of course that isn't the case for you americans.
In order to receive such services, taxes. What about your roads? Potholes? Who will fill them? The government.
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#9
Quote by Say Ocean
political thread


Lollerskates

+5
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Last edited by job153 at Jan 12, 2009,
#10
Quote by exiledsoul
i want my healthcare regulated by the government. hence free health care - of course that isn't the case for you americans.
In order to receive such services, taxes. What about your roads? Potholes? Who will fill them? The government.


1. its not free when you have a 50%+ income tax
2. that stuff is necessary, and i have no problem with that
the problem is when its stuff that normal responsible people should be able to handle
Quote by progbass
right Metallica is a given. Personally I like to pretend the bus exploded and killed them all in '86.

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#11
Quote by acdclandon
1. its not free when you have a 50%+ income tax
2. that stuff is necessary, and i have no problem with that
the problem is when its stuff that normal responsible people should be able to handle



How educated are you? Don't take offense, I'm just asking your level of education, particularly in the area of economics and history.


But srsly, political thread
#12
Quote by acdclandon
1. its not free when you have a 50%+ income tax
2. that stuff is necessary, and i have no problem with that
the problem is when its stuff that normal responsible people should be able to handle


what are you talking about 50% income tax?
how much are you making?!?!?!?
where i come from, and most other places, income tax is based on how much you make. i only end up spending 2000 into RRSP's and i claim my tuition. so basically when i retire i get all that money back and i don't pay any taxes.
as well, i ride fmx, if healthcare was private, id spend way more than just 2000 on medical bills in a year. so basically it ends up being cheaper having lots of government involvement.

which brings up another point.
i spend 4000/semester on tuition alone. a PRIVATE university.
i want more government involvement, there are some places in europe that uni is almost free.
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#13
Quote by Say Ocean
How educated are you? Don't take offense, I'm just asking your level of education, particularly in the area of economics and history.


But srsly, political thread


i'm a freshman in high school
say what you will, i'm just voicing my opinion as an average person, not as an expert


Quote by exiledsoul
what are you talking about 50% income tax?
how much are you making?!?!?!?
where i come from, and most other places, income tax is based on how much you make. i only end up spending 2000 into RRSP's and i claim my tuition. so basically when i retire i get all that money back and i don't pay any taxes.
as well, i ride fmx, if healthcare was private, id spend way more than just 2000 on medical bills in a year. so basically it ends up being cheaper having lots of government involvement.

which brings up another point.
i spend 4000/semester on tuition alone. a PRIVATE university.
i want more government involvement, there are some places in europe that uni is almost free.


in the countries that run these kinds of universal coverage, your taxes go up
to me its common sense there, if they don't then their making huge deficits for themselves, or their just taxing the rich like crazy

but my point is, private universities are most likely better quality
i'm not saying all, but when you have private enterprise, you have competition, which then leads to prices being driven down (in most cases, college is a bad example)
Quote by progbass
right Metallica is a given. Personally I like to pretend the bus exploded and killed them all in '86.

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#15
If us Europeans can handle government-regulated healthcare, then you Americans should be able to do so, too. It's not that hard.
#16
Quote by acdclandon
i'm a freshman in high school
say what you will, i'm just voicing my opinion as an average person, not as an expert


in the countries that run these kinds of universal coverage, your taxes go up
to me its common sense there, if they don't then their making huge deficits for themselves, or their just taxing the rich like crazy

but my point is, private universities are most likely better quality
i'm not saying all, but when you have private enterprise, you have competition, which then leads to prices being driven down (in most cases, college is a bad example)


you really have no clue what you are talking about. a freshman in high school, wait until you hit the real world.
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Quote by gsr2k6
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#17
Quote by exiledsoul
you really have no clue what you are talking about. a freshman in high school, wait until you hit the real world.

He's not entirely off there - the universities here are cheaper because a they are run with tax money for the biggest part. But the 'taxing the hell out of the rich' thing is wrong. They do pay higher income taxes (because they have a higher income.Duh.) but all in all the biggest part of taxes comes from people with a medium high or low income, just because there's so many of them. There's no point raising taxes only for the rich, because the results are minimal.
#18
Quote by acdclandon

i think its a balance of both, i think that with (what is inevitable now with the way our companies have been exposed over the last couple months) stricter regulation with the sole purpose of keeping the customer safe from being cheated paired with a free market economy would prosper
(a.k.a. later Clinton years)

Overall, give me your take on government involvment
i'd like to know
(also keep this respectful)


i agree with the beginning (a balance of both) but not the bolded. a complete free market DOES NOT WORK. look at wallstreet and the housing market. they ****ed us over royally. i support heavy government regulations in business, but get the hell out of our personal lives.

and what do you know about the clinton years? you were what, 5?

everyone praises clinton for the economy, but there is only so much a president can do to effect it. he kinda just got elected at a very prosperous time in the US.


Quote by TheQuailman
If us Europeans can handle government-regulated healthcare, then you Americans should be able to do so, too. It's not that hard.


question about this.

does the government ever tell you that you cant go to the doctors or that you cant get some surgery done? say im a hypochondriac and i like to go to the doctor's once a month because i think im sick all the time, would the government put a stop to that?

i cant really think of the best example atm, but i wouldnt support government health care if they could dictate when i could and couldnt go to the doctors and if they could tell me a surgery or procedure wasnt necessary.
Remember through sounds
Remember through smells
Remember through colors
Remember through towns
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#19
question about this.

does the government ever tell you that you cant go to the doctors or that you cant get some surgery done? say im a hypochondriac and i like to go to the doctor's once a month because i think im sick all the time, would the government put a stop to that?

i cant really think of the best example atm, but i wouldnt support government health care if they could dictate when i could and couldnt go to the doctors and if they could tell me a surgery or procedure wasnt necessary.


nope, i go to the doctor whenever i want.
i feel a little under the weather...i go to the doctor. i have never been turned away.
the government would never tell you that you can't go.

from my understanding there are a few procedures that they won't cover (sex changes/cosmetic surgery ie breast enlargement). on the other hand, if a lady is having back problems due to a huge chest, the government would pay for her to have them reduced.
christ, even my massage therapy is paid for by the government =D
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Last edited by exiledsoul at Jan 12, 2009,
#20
Quote by NoLaurelTree000
question about this.

does the government ever tell you that you cant go to the doctors or that you cant get some surgery done? say im a hypochondriac and i like to go to the doctor's once a month because i think im sick all the time, would the government put a stop to that?

i cant really think of the best example atm, but i wouldnt support government health care if they could dictate when i could and couldnt go to the doctors and if they could tell me a surgery or procedure wasnt necessary.
No.

You'd probably be sent to a psychiatrist to treat you for hypochondria, which is itself a mental condition.

I know some countries place a small charge on GP visits to disuade unnecessary visits (equivalent of £5 or £10).

As for surgery, if you need it you get it, it's up to the surgeons to decide, you might have to wait if it's not urgent, but you'll get it immediately if you need it immediately.
#21
Quote by NoLaurelTree000
question about this.

does the government ever tell you that you cant go to the doctors or that you cant get some surgery done? say im a hypochondriac and i like to go to the doctor's once a month because i think im sick all the time, would the government put a stop to that?

i cant really think of the best example atm, but i wouldnt support government health care if they could dictate when i could and couldnt go to the doctors and if they could tell me a surgery or procedure wasnt necessary.

No. The government only makes the rules, but is not involved in the execution of anything concerning the health care system. Basically, there is only one rule: Everybody has to have an insurance, so money for health care can be collected. There are various insurance companies that collect the money (choose the one you like best) and they pay your medical treatment.
That is, in a nutshell, how it works. Nobody can tell you when to go to a doctor or when not to.
#22
Quote by Say Ocean
political thread




Hey, do you know a guy named tws!

#23
Quote by exiledsoul
nope, i go to the doctor whenever i want.
i feel a little under the weather...i go to the doctor. i have never been turned away.
the government would never tell you that you can't go.

from my understanding there are a few procedures that they won't cover (sex changes/cosmetic surgery ie breast enlargement). on the other hand, if a lady is having back problems due to a huge chest, the government would pay for her to have them reduced.
christ, even my massage therapy is paid for by the government =D


this i agree with

Quote by freedoms_stain

As for surgery, if you need it you get it, it's up to the surgeons to decide, you might have to wait if it's not urgent, but you'll get it immediately if you need it immediately.


but not so much this. i dont want the government telling me i cant get surgery because its not urgent. what if im in pain, its a wrong diagnosis, etc.


this is why im still kinda on the fence about government health care.
Remember through sounds
Remember through smells
Remember through colors
Remember through towns
-Modest Mouse, "Novocaine Stain"
#24
Quote by NoLaurelTree000
this i agree with


but not so much this. i dont want the government telling me i cant get surgery because its not urgent. what if im in pain, its a wrong diagnosis, etc.


this is why im still kinda on the fence about government health care.



basically what freedoms is getting at, is the important surgeries go first.
let's say you need some sort of surgery. you are in pain and you want it done so it doesn't hurt anymore. keep in mind, you won't die if you don't receive the surgery.
now let's say someone got in a horrible accident and needs surgery within the next 2 hours or they will die.
obviously the person in the accident would get put in front of you.

and think on the bright side, you get free massages from a hot messus while you wait =D haha
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