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#1
I love playing this instrument, and my whole life pretty much revolves around music in one way or another.

But, when did it become acceptible that people without an ounce of musicality are seen as good guitarists?

I'm talking specifically about 'shred' guitar, and everyone's obsession with how fast people can play. I see a lot of posts on here about how to play faster. Do people only care about speed so they can look good and fool people who don't really know about music? There are people on youtube who play beautiful solos, and get 3/5, and yet some guy who runs arpeggios and scales at 200 bpm get 5/5, even though it sounds like **** and would sound even worse with the distortion turned off.

I'm considering burying myself in my room and never reading another thing anyone has to say about guitar .
#2
First off, most of the people showing off on YouTube are young, and playing fast is fun, give them a break.

Second, most shredders have far more understanding of music then most guys who play mid-tempo boring powerchord rock.

Last, if they make you feel bad about guitar, you'd hate my playing. If other people's playing makes you want to give up, do it and find a new hobby. I'd suggest chess.
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#3
Quote by Ikonoklast
I love playing this instrument, and my whole life pretty much revolves around music in one way or another.

But, when did it become acceptible that people without an ounce of musicality are seen as good guitarists?

I'm talking specifically about 'shred' guitar, and everyone's obsession with how fast people can play. I see a lot of posts on here about how to play faster. Do people only care about speed so they can look good and fool people who don't really know about music? There are people on youtube who play beautiful solos, and get 3/5, and yet some guy who runs arpeggios and scales at 200 bpm get 5/5, even though it sounds like **** and would sound even worse with the distortion turned off.

I'm considering burying myself in my room and never reading another thing anyone has to say about guitar .



You nailed it when you said you care about music. Let the others congratulate themselves for being indifferent to music, if that's what it takes for them to think they are accomplishing something. But I can't think of a single "shredder" who I would like to emulate. I think playing actual music is more satisfying.

#4
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#5
It all depends on what your tastes are. Of course, guitarists who write great solos and licks deserve respect. But to say shredding is not actual music is unfair. It takes alot of effort and practice just to even do that.

take Zakk Wylde for instance. That man can shred and also write some beautiful riffs that blow my mind. He's got the best of both worlds. I think its about pushing it to the limits. You like to shred, go shred. You like to play slower tempo riffs with some complicated stuff, then do so.

I play mostly punk rock so I don't really care about all the fancy stuff. But its what I like so I stick with it.
#6
First off, most of the people showing off on YouTube are young, and playing fast is fun, give them a break.


I don't care how young they are. It's not music. Guitar is a MUSICAL instrument.

Second, most shredders have far more understanding of music then most guys who play mid-tempo boring powerchord rock.


I'm not talking about generic power-chord rock. Paul Gilbert is my favourite guitarist, and he can shred, but he also understands what making music is about.

Last, if they make you feel bad about guitar, you'd hate my playing. If other people's playing makes you want to give up, do it and find a new hobby. I'd suggest chess.


They don't make me feel bad. I'm becoming disillusioned that the thing i love most is being infiltrated by little fanboys who know nothing about music, and the guitar hero culture that makes people think playing fast = playing good. It doesn't.

Second: It's not a hobby thankyou very much. And chess is fun. It requires brains.
#8
Quote by MommasHooligan
It all depends on what your tastes are. Of course, guitarists who write great solos and licks deserve respect. But to say shredding is not actual music is unfair. It takes alot of effort and practice just to even do that.

take Zakk Wylde for instance. That man can shred and also write some beautiful riffs that blow my mind. He's got the best of both worlds. I think its about pushing it to the limits. You like to shred, go shred. You like to play slower tempo riffs with some complicated stuff, then do so.

I play mostly punk rock so I don't really care about all the fancy stuff. But its what I like so I stick with it.


You misunderstand me.

When does something become music and not just noise?

Music is usually categorised by phrasing, melody, rhythmic values, dynamics etc.

'Shred' guitar has none of these. It's all pick as fast as you can.
Most of them on youtube sound like they're doing guitar exercises. Exercises isn't music.
#9
I'm not feeling too great right now...

...I wrote two new songs, and can't think of my next...

...I'd just say, don't let the lil' things get to you!
#10
Just be glad they're playing guitar and not starting some hip hop/rap crap. At least they're out there doing something for rock and keeping it alive.

And Ikonoklast, you listen to Deicide! Thats basically what you're complaining about. Death metal is nothing riffs played as fast as possible. So where is the problem? Really!
#11
I tend to think the youtube shredders suck. Because they do. I like Vai and Gilbert more than, say, Yngwie, because they know how to write music that sounds GOOD. Yngwie is just stuck-in-the-'80s mindless neoclassical harmonic minor wanking that frankly sucks.
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#12
You see, everyone has his or her own opinions; simply because you don't think it smells like crap, doesn't mean that it isn't a big pile to someone else. If you don't like the music, don't listen and if you don't like other person's views on music, you could mind your own business. There's no reason to dis something on the basis that you don't like it.
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#13
Melody>Speed IMO. Many people prefer speed, but I'd much rather hear a pretty, slow solo than a fast, crappy one. When I solo, I try to make it sound good. If speed makes it sound better, I play fast. Speed is good in some cases, but only some. It's all about how it sounds.

For a comparison, I'd rather hang out with a cool idiot than a boring, conservative genius. Sure the genius is much smarter("faster/advanced"), but who cares when he's no fun to be around? The idiot has an actual personality. I hope somebody understands what I mean...

(And I know not all idiots are cool, and not all geniuses are conservative and boring, but I'm sure you know at least one person who can fit into each category I'm talking about. It was just a half-assed analogy.)
Last edited by Zecromancer at Jan 13, 2009,
#14
Quote by Josh Shiells
I'm not feeling too great right now...

...I wrote two new songs, and can't think of my next...

...I'd just say, don't let the lil' things get to you!


Hmm yeah i just like credit where it's due. There are a lot of really good guitarists (btw, i do NOT think i'm one of them) who get jack **** because they can't play uber-fast, but i'd take that slow Gilmour-style lick over Herman Li style wankery anyday of the week.

I think anyone can metronome scales and arpeggios, but it takes true talent to bend a string with feeling, create a melody or even write a catchy tune. Shredding at 16nps for 3 mins straight is neither of these things.
#15
Quote by Ikonoklast
You misunderstand me.

When does something become music and not just noise?

Music is usually categorised by phrasing, melody, rhythmic values, dynamics etc.

'Shred' guitar has none of these. It's all pick as fast as you can.
Most of them on youtube sound like they're doing guitar exercises. Exercises isn't music.



I see your point. But thats not what its really about for some people. Take the Ramones for instance. 3 or 4 power chord songs on almost everything they put out, yet they are still influential in music. It was about the attitude. The idea is that if it sounds good to the person shredding or w/e, then its going to appeal to some listeners who enjoy it.
#16
you know, music is entirely subjective. what is good music to you is not good music to someone else. If someone likes to listen to mindless arpeggios, let them, I can't stand people who get all elitist thinking one type of music is inferior to the other because there isn't as much "soul" or "emotion" in their playing.

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#17
Quote by Ikonoklast
You misunderstand me.

When does something become music and not just noise?

Music is usually categorised by phrasing, melody, rhythmic values, dynamics etc.

'Shred' guitar has none of these. It's all pick as fast as you can.
Most of them on youtube sound like they're doing guitar exercises. Exercises isn't music.


Have u ever heard of Chopin's Etudes?

Good shredding incorporate all of those things
#18
Quote by MommasHooligan
Just be glad they're playing guitar and not starting some hip hop/rap crap. At least they're out there doing something for rock and keeping it alive.

And Ikonoklast, you listen to Deicide! Thats basically what you're complaining about. Death metal is nothing riffs played as fast as possible. So where is the problem? Really!


You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

Personally, i like Death Metal because of the Rhythm section. The riffing, changes in pace. Listen to Decapitated - Spheres of Madness. If you think it's the same as shred you should probably leave music forever.

Secondly, What do you mean by:

At least they're out there doing something for rock and keeping it alive.

They're polluting the water, is what they're doing.
#19
Quote by oneblackened
I tend to think the youtube shredders suck. Because they do. I like Vai and Gilbert more than, say, Yngwie, because they know how to write music that sounds GOOD. Yngwie is just stuck-in-the-'80s mindless neoclassical harmonic minor wanking that frankly sucks.


Yngwie is past his prime I think. You're right about him being stuck in the 80's. And he's extremely critical of other guitarists from some interviews I've read in Guitar World.
#20
Quote by an epic mistake
you know, music is entirely subjective. what is good music to you is not good music to someone else. If someone likes to listen to mindless arpeggios, let them, I can't stand people who get all elitist thinking one type of music is inferior to the other because there isn't as much "soul" or "emotion" in their playing.


I said i hate the way people think speed makes you a good guitarist.

Me thinking it's shít is my own opinion.
#21
Quote by Ikonoklast
You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

Personally, i like Death Metal because of the Rhythm section. The riffing, changes in pace. Listen to Decapitated - Spheres of Madness. If you think it's the same as shred you should probably leave music forever.

Secondly, What do you mean by:

At least they're out there doing something for rock and keeping it alive.

They're polluting the water, is what they're doing.


All I'm saying is that music changes direction every few years. And right now the hardcore/shred scene is huge. I have a huge appreciation for really good guitarists. take Al Di Meola for instance. He's insane. But to say that shredding is not any good is wrong, because thats what death metal is based on. Just some do it with some melody, but overall its the same. Just like any genre of music.

Give me some examples of some bands that you're referring to that you're griping about!
#22
Quote by Ikonoklast
I love playing this instrument, and my whole life pretty much revolves around music in one way or another.

But, when did it become acceptible that people without an ounce of musicality are seen as good guitarists?

I'm talking specifically about 'shred' guitar, and everyone's obsession with how fast people can play. I see a lot of posts on here about how to play faster. Do people only care about speed so they can look good and fool people who don't really know about music? There are people on youtube who play beautiful solos, and get 3/5, and yet some guy who runs arpeggios and scales at 200 bpm get 5/5, even though it sounds like **** and would sound even worse with the distortion turned off.

I'm considering burying myself in my room and never reading another thing anyone has to say about guitar .


The last sentence was a bit harsh, but I do have to agree, people have forgotten the beauty of a sustained note. Shred really gets old after a while, here's hoping John Mayer can do some sort of SRV-style blues-revival. It was about the same in the 80's; he was pretty much the only young guy playing blues and stuff, and everyone else was shredding away. So I'd say the odds are with Mr. Mayer.
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#23
Quote by MommasHooligan
All I'm saying is that music changes direction every few years. And right now the hardcore/shred scene is huge. I have a huge appreciation for really good guitarists. take Al Di Meola for instance. He's insane. But to say that shredding is not any good is wrong, because thats what death metal is based on. Just some do it with some melody, but overall its the same. Just like any genre of music.

Give me some examples of some bands that you're referring to that you're griping about!


I'm not griping about bands per se, i'm griping about people who post on youtube, and everyone's general fascination with it.

Death metal is not based on shredding. It's based on complex rhythms. Listen to Death and Possessed, two bands widely considered to be the start of the genre, and tell me where you hear shred. Granted, it's gotten faster over the years, but it's still got a distinct rhythm, and Death Metal guitarists rarely shred as a be all and end all to a song.
#24
Quote by Ikonoklast
I said i hate the way people think speed makes you a good guitarist.

Me thinking it's shít is my own opinion.

well then my previous post is kind of irrelevant. but anyway, speed is not THE defining factor of skill, but it definitely helps.

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#25
Quote by Ikonoklast
I'm not griping about bands per se, i'm griping about people who post on youtube, and everyone's general fascination with it.

Death metal is not based on shredding. It's based on complex rhythms. Listen to Death and Possessed, two bands widely considered to be the start of the genre, and tell me where you hear shred. Granted, it's gotten faster over the years, but it's still got a distinct rhythm, and Death Metal guitarists rarely shred as a be all and end all to a song.



Oh, are you refering to the youtube bedroom rockers? Who cares about them? With death metal did orignate from thrash, which is basically shredding. But again, different strokes for different folks
#26
Quote by MommasHooligan
Oh, are you refering to the youtube bedroom rockers? Who cares about them? With death metal did orignate from thrash, which is basically shredding. But again, different strokes for different folks


Well if that's the stance you wanna take everything is two sticks hitting a rock on the floor of the cave then.

And thrash isn't shredding you have it all wrong.
#27
Quote by Ikonoklast
Well if that's the stance you wanna take everything is two sticks hitting a rock on the floor of the cave then.

And thrash isn't shredding you have it all wrong.


Really? You mean to tell me that old Metallica, Anthrax, Kreator, Slayer (all thrash) is not shredding? Wow.
#28
Quote by MommasHooligan
Really? You mean to tell me that old Metallica, Anthrax, Kreator, Slayer (all thrash) is not shredding? Wow.


Hahaha, Metallica is the thrash band you could LEAST put in the shredding category. I think you need to distinguish between genres my friend. Shred is called Shred and Thrash is called Thrash. If Thrash was Shred there wouldn't be two separate genres.....
#29
Quote by Ikonoklast
Hahaha, Metallica is the thrash band you could LEAST put in the shredding category. I think you need to distinguish between genres my friend. Shred is called Shred and Thrash is called Thrash. If Thrash was Shred there wouldn't be two separate genres.....

What about Pantera?
They've been called shred and thrash.
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#30
Shredding is fine in moderation. When it becomes all out wanking on the guitar it just makes you look stupid.
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#31
I don't count shredding as a genre really. Its more or less a technique/approach to the guitar. Especially DragonForce. They are all about shredding. Guitar World November 2008 breaks it all down.
#32
Quote by Justice4AllOne
What about Pantera?
They've been called shred and thrash.


By people who don't know. If you've got ears you can tell they're neither.
#33
Pantera? Hell almost every track off of Great Southern Trendkill was thrash/shred. I think you might be having a different definition of the term "shred" lol
#34
Quote by MommasHooligan
I don't count shredding as a genre really. Its more or less a technique/approach to the guitar. Especially DragonForce. They are all about shredding. Guitar World November 2008 breaks it all down.


You've changed your tune...And Dragonforce are one of the worst bands going. But i don't want this to turn into a DF thread, there's enough of them.

Steve Vai, Satch, Gilbert.....They can Shred if needs be, but are musical with it.

Even Malmsteen to a point can be listenable, it's not purely shred with no feeling at all. But i'm talking about people like this guy getting props for this:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GcuS8Id3eP8&feature=channel

If i wanted to listen to that i could turn on a pneumatic drill and put my head next to it.

EDIT: You cannot group that ^ with Death metal, Pantera, Thrash, Vai, Malmsteen, Satch, Gilbert, Cooley, Lane or anyone that makes music. If you think any of the above are the same as this they are not.
Last edited by Ikonoklast at Jan 13, 2009,
#35
Oh man. That guy blows dogs for quarters. And those comments are from retards who don't understand anything. Probably a bunch of emo kids thinking thats cool.

And maybe I worded it wrong, but I haven't changed my tune. But thrash is shredding for the most part, hands down. Thats what makes it so appealing.
#36
i think both the speed and emotional qualities are equally hard. both are great characteristics and require great talent. i wish i could successfully do both at the same time.
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#37
Quote by Ikonoklast
I love playing this instrument, and my whole life pretty much revolves around music in one way or another.

Sounds like you need to diversify.
Quote by Ikonoklast
I said i hate the way people think speed makes you a good guitarist.

Me thinking it's shít is my own opinion

And being a good guitar player isn't a matter of opinion? What, are you complaining that they have opinions?
Quote by Ikonoklast
Hahaha, Metallica is the thrash band you could LEAST put in the shredding category. I think you need to distinguish between genres my friend. Shred is called Shred and Thrash is called Thrash. If Thrash was Shred there wouldn't be two separate genres.....

A fairly small and negligible, if existant, genre distinction.
#38
And maybe I worded it wrong, but I haven't changed my tune. But thrash is shredding for the most part, hands down. Thats what makes it so appealing.


Did you not watch that video i posted? I demand you immediately link me to a 'thrash' song that sound like that. If not please stop having a misinformed opinion.

i think both the speed and emotional qualities are equally hard. both are great characteristics and require great talent. i wish i could successfully do both at the same time.


Drilling exercises with a metronome requires nothing but muscle memory, this is not hard.
#39
Quote by Ikonoklast
I don't care how young they are. It's not music. Guitar is a MUSICAL instrument.

I'm not talking about generic power-chord rock. Paul Gilbert is my favourite guitarist, and he can shred, but he also understands what making music is about.

They don't make me feel bad. I'm becoming disillusioned that the thing i love most is being infiltrated by little fanboys who know nothing about music, and the guitar hero culture that makes people think playing fast = playing good. It doesn't.

Second: It's not a hobby thankyou very much. And chess is fun. It requires brains.


It is music, maybe boring to you (and me too, I never thought I defend random widdlies...) but it is music, just boring music. Some day they'll get over it and move on to better things, for now let the kids have their fun.

I wasn't saying you were talking about boring powerchord rock, I'm saying at least they're doing something more then boring powerchord rock. Personally, I'd rather them play powerchords as fast as they shred, but to each his/her own.

Sorry, some guitar players are going to start out sucking. Some won't get past that. If they still enjoy playing guitar, don't be an elitist twat to them or you'll ruin it for them and yourself. Just keep playing how you like and they'll to the same. Or, use that rage to fuel your creativity.
No gods, no countries, no masters.
More guitar, less Ultimate-Guitar.
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#40
The video looked like like the dude picked up a guitar and started to play as fast as he can. Why thats getting to you, I have no idea. He's obviously not influencing anybody (that has a brain).
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