#1
So for a standard I V IV progression, I've been practicing with mixing the minor blues scale and the major blues scale, arpeggios, and some additional notes that I threw in by ear (which I'm sure can be explained by some more advanced theory that I don't know). So what other sorts of things can you do?
#2
Take your minor and major blues scales and play them in a diffrent modes, you will get a VERY sounds out of them by using the same notes and intervals, but simply starting in a different position.

Check out Zeguitarist lessons if that theory went over your head, its got some good techniques.
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#3
Quote by gizmodious
Take your minor and major blues scales and play them in a diffrent modes, you will get a VERY [different?] sounds out of them by using the same notes and intervals, but simply starting in a different position.

Check out Zeguitarist lessons if that theory went over your head, its got some good techniques.
If you think playing the same notes over the same progression will give you a different sound just because you're changing positions on the fretboard, than you are VERY misinformed.

Check out Zeguitarist lessons if that theory went over your head
Hmmm
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#4
You can extend the pentatonics into the modes depending on the tonalities on the I, IV and V chords. For instance if I and V are minor but IV is major (for instance Buddy Guy's "What Kind Of Woman Is This?") you get a slightly Dorian vibe, and hence Dorian licks can work. Still, many famous guitarists have got by playing nothing but pentatonics; those same five notes have enough to keep the audience interested if you know how to use them.
#6
Quote by demonofthenight
If you think playing the same notes over the same progression will give you a different sound just because you're changing positions on the fretboard, than you are VERY misinformed.



Maybe. Or maybe playing those notes in a different position will inspire him to write a new lick he would have otherwise never thought of. Experimentation can work.
#7
Quote by MjolnirMan
thanks for all the replies
I'll definately try to dabble in modes a bit



Beyond what you mentioned, mixolydian modes of the I, IV and V work over each
chord.

You have to be careful with modes and blues. You can't really say "dorian" and
expect it to mean the entire progression. It's almost 3 key changes. If you use
the I dorian (which is probably the only place you'd want to, and even then it's not
entirely functioning like a usual dorian), over the IV chord that becomes IV mixolydian.
Very decidedly, you woudn't be really using it the same way as over the I chord.
#8
Quote by demonofthenight
If you think playing the same notes over the same progression will give you a different sound just because you're changing positions on the fretboard, than you are VERY misinformed.


Don't know how your guitar is set up, but it does definitely change the sound of my guitar if I play the same notes in different positions.
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#9
Quote by mr_magic
Don't know how your guitar is set up, but it does definitely change the sound of my guitar if I play the same notes in different positions.


it just raises the pitch of the note, an E on a open string is still an E on the 24th fret, no matter how much more higher pitched the note is.
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along with fire escape routes...

#11
Quote by Don Rickles
Maybe. Or maybe playing those notes in a different position will inspire him to write a new lick he would have otherwise never thought of. Experimentation can work.
Possibly, but it's not modal (as the guy I was responding to implied).

Even still, it wouldn't be very noticable. You'd be able to find new licks and all, but they'll still sound like something you personally wrote.
Quote by mr_magic

Don't know how your guitar is set up, but it does definitely change the sound of my guitar if I play the same notes in different positions.
Don't know how your intonation is set up, but the same note sounds pretty similar all the way up and down my fretboard.
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Last edited by demonofthenight at Jan 17, 2009,
#12
Quote by demonofthenight
Possibly, but it's not modal (as the guy I was responding to implied).

Even still, it wouldn't be very noticable. You'd be able to find new licks and all, but they'll still sound like something you personally wrote.
Don't know how your intonation is set up, but the same note sounds pretty similar all the way up and down my fretboard.


That's not true;

there's still a different timbre.

http://www.box.net/shared/4f1zu4sde6

I played both the same notes (same lick) only on 2 different strings, both with the bridge pickup and same settings etc.

first lick sounds rounder, but can you hear how the 2nd time the last note "Sings" more? (you must be able to hear how this goes into harmonics and has a more vocal quality to it)

EDIT: You may like the first 1 better in sound, but I can tell from experience, that when you have a band playing behind you, the first 1 will fade away in the band, and the 2nd lick will really stand out (given the overal sound mix is "normal".)

they both totally differ in sonic quality, and this is fact.

Here Petrucci making the same kind of difference as what I did.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t25AOSxZZkI Check his melody playing here. Notice how he plays those long stretched melody lines on the B and G string, depending on the vocal quality he wants to get.

Hear at 1:16 the note that slightly goes into feedback. That same note will have a totally different sonic quality if played in a different position.

So ye it does matters a lot. You can ignore it, but it's an essential part what makes that line just a little bit more different and "sing" more.

Not bashing or anything, just giving a little advice bro.

I love the guitar exactly because of this kind of stuff, the instrument is so "lively" if played and/or understand well.

Apologies, but I'm very strict in this kind of stuff

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Jan 17, 2009,
#14
Quote by xxdarrenxx
That's not true;

there's still a different timbre.

http://www.box.net/shared/4f1zu4sde6

I played both the same notes (same lick) only on 2 different strings, both with the bridge pickup and same settings etc.

first lick sounds rounder, but can you hear how the 2nd time the last note "Sings" more? (you must be able to hear how this goes into harmonics and has a more vocal quality to it)

EDIT: You may like the first 1 better in sound, but I can tell from experience, that when you have a band playing behind you, the first 1 will fade away in the band, and the 2nd lick will really stand out (given the overal sound mix is "normal".)

they both totally differ in sonic quality, and this is fact.

Here Petrucci making the same kind of difference as what I did.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t25AOSxZZkI Check his melody playing here. Notice how he plays those long stretched melody lines on the B and G string, depending on the vocal quality he wants to get.

Hear at 1:16 the note that slightly goes into feedback. That same note will have a totally different sonic quality if played in a different position.

So ye it does matters a lot. You can ignore it, but it's an essential part what makes that line just a little bit more different and "sing" more.

Not bashing or anything, just giving a little advice bro.

I love the guitar exactly because of this kind of stuff, the instrument is so "lively" if played and/or understand well.

Apologies, but I'm very strict in this kind of stuff
Sort of agree...

But that still has nothing to do with modes as gizmodious said!

From my interpretation of what gizmodious, he's been misinformed into thinking that playing a relative mode of a scale over a progression will sound different to another relative mode over that same progression. Which just isn't true.
Personally, I blame the idiots thinking they can teach what they don't know themselves.
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#15
Quote by demonofthenight
Sort of agree...

But that still has nothing to do with modes as gizmodious said!

From my interpretation of what gizmodious, he's been misinformed into thinking that playing a relative mode of a scale over a progression will sound different to another relative mode over that same progression. Which just isn't true.
Personally, I blame the idiots thinking they can teach what they don't know themselves.



Oh yes, I missed the context

In harmonic thinking you're absolutely right.

My apologies.

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
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Who's Andy Timmons??
#16
wow, thanks for all the input. sorry i havn't really said anything for a while, cause i've been pretty busy. is there some guide that describes which mode i can play over which chord?, and just to clarify, the "key" of the mode is the note it starts on, right? ie does "D dorian" refer to a scale that starts on D or a dorian scale that has notes from the D major key?
#17
Quote by MjolnirMan
wow, thanks for all the input. sorry i havn't really said anything for a while, cause i've been pretty busy. is there some guide that describes which mode i can play over which chord?, and just to clarify, the "key" of the mode is the note it starts on, right? ie does "D dorian" refer to a scale that starts on D or a dorian scale that has notes from the D major key?


If you are playing D Dorian scale, then you are in C Major or A Minor key, because keys are only major or minor and modes refer to scale degrees of those keys. But it doesn't mean that you can't play modes from different keys. You can play modes on each chord, that has notes from some mode. For example, in a standard progression I-vi-ii-V (f.e. C, Am, Dm, G), you could play D Dorian over Dm chord and A Dorian over Am, and it would sound smooth, but with different color than it would if you would play A Aeolian over Am.
#18
Quote by MjolnirMan
wow, thanks for all the input. sorry i havn't really said anything for a while, cause i've been pretty busy. is there some guide that describes which mode i can play over which chord?, and just to clarify, the "key" of the mode is the note it starts on, right? ie does "D dorian" refer to a scale that starts on D or a dorian scale that has notes from the D major key?
D dorian is an archaic scale using the same notes as C major, but resolving on D (not starting or finishing, RESOLVING). It has a completely different formula and completely different intervals. If you are writing truly modally in D dorian, your whole movement is going to be in D dorian (unless you're modulating), not just over one or two chords.
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#19
Quote by MjolnirMan
wow, thanks for all the input. sorry i havn't really said anything for a while, cause i've been pretty busy. is there some guide that describes which mode i can play over which chord?, and just to clarify, the "key" of the mode is the note it starts on, right? ie does "D dorian" refer to a scale that starts on D or a dorian scale that has notes from the D major key?


What you'd say is the D Dorian is a mode of C Major.

However, if a musical piece were truly written for D Dorian, you'd most likely see the
key signature of D Minor, not C Major. Why? Because the music resolves to D and
it's minor (Dorian is a minor mode). You'd have to infer Dorian by the notes used
and #/b/ or natural indications in the music.

Back to your original blues question... Blues is a bit odd theory-wise. A major blues
I-IV-V progression you (can)pretty much treat as 3 key changes. As I said before,
if you were playing the I Dorian, and continued playing it over the IV, you're not
really playing Dorian anymore but IV Mixolydian. It's somewhat questionable you're
even playing a true I Dorian over the I chord. It's a major chord. While the root
functions the same, the normal functioning of the b3 Dorian is completely changed.
It works because that's the blues and the b3 is a "blue note".
#20
Quote by mr_magic
Don't know how your guitar is set up, but it does definitely change the sound of my guitar if I play the same notes in different positions.


Still wouldn't have a modal result, just a really awkward pattern of notes. That is what Demon was saying, of course it's going to sound different, just not different in the way that he was implying.
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