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#1
Whats up everyone,

So my band, One Fall Away, was playing last night. I play with Peavy valveking 112, but I noticed the other band had stacks. We were good but, I felt ike we were overpowered. I was wondering, do I need a bigger amp or am I ok with my Peavy>

If so, what suggestions should I start looking at..

here is my band's myspace www.myspace.com/ofafl

Mike
#2
I'm sure you will be fine with your Valveking but it's really up to you. Do you get over your drummer well? It could be that they're just loud and trying to compensate for their playing with volume.
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#3
having a stack doesnt necessarily mean anything. how big of gigs are you playing? cause a 50w amp should be just fine for small to medium sized gigs, unless youre looking for more headroom

EDIT: ^also true
Last edited by Ekim423 at Jan 15, 2009,
#4
Its called Mic'ing your amplifier. You DO NOT need a bigger amplifier, anyone who uses a massive stack is just trying to look cool. In this day and age we dont need massive walls of amplifiers to have ppl in the back row hear us.

So pretty much stacks are a tone choice (stacks DO have a different tone than a combo of the same build).

You dont need one, just mic your amp... or if you want just get a speaker cabinet and connect it to your combo.
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#6
^Ekim423, use the edit button.

What he said is true though, having a stack doesn't necessarily mean anything.
Quote by Vincent Vega
Haikus are awesome
but sometimes they don't make sense
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Quote by KissingShadows
People always tell me I solo like Zakk Wylde. Thats how I know that I suck.
#7
Quote by thsrayas
^Ekim423, use the edit button.

What he said is true though, having a stack doesn't necessarily mean anything.


ahh whoops thought i did.
#8
Quote by Ekim423
ahh whoops thought i did.


No problem, I just let people know since it seems like a lot of people don't even know it exists.
Quote by Vincent Vega
Haikus are awesome
but sometimes they don't make sense
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Quote by KissingShadows
People always tell me I solo like Zakk Wylde. Thats how I know that I suck.
#9
Quote by thsrayas
No problem, I just let people know since it seems like a lot of people don't even know it exists.


haha indeed this is very true
#11
Quote by guitar-godfrey
you guys are alright! also you wont need a stack, my friend has a 100W valve amp that beats my friends 250W stack! having a stack proves nothing



Not true. When I got my stack my penis grew 3 inches. Plus it's a Two Rock so I got an extra inch from that.
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You should probably mug John Frusciante or Ritchie Blackmore. They're small guys, we could take 'em.

Just look out for that other guy in the Red Hot Chili Peppers, Will Farrel. He's a tall mofo, got a long reach.



Quote by Invader Jim
I give up.

#12
Quote by VoodooCow229
Not true. When I got my stack my penis grew 3 inches. Plus it's a Two Rock so I got an extra inch from that.


lol
Seems that I've met a lot of people who actually think this around where I live. I told them I was getting a stack with a 2X12 cab and they told me that wasn't big enough. Congrats on the Two Rock though, those kick ass.
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#14
Thanks for all the response.. We are usually play the bar scene. We were asked to play the promoter's birthday bash and it was a bigger venue. For instance, it had a drum riser, a bigger stage, and a better sound system.. I know th myspace says we have been a band since June, In actualality, we have been playing for like 3 months. So I guess stacks just a fashion statement Hm? I guess I just want to be prepared, I'm sure we will be playing bigger venues as time goes by? Thanks for the compliments also. add us, we would like more friends.. What are your ideas on that..
#15
Stack = Amplifier in a box, and the speakers in a different box
Combo = Stack in one box.


You should be fine.
#16
Well even if you play bigger venues they will mic your amp. You dont need a stack.
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#17
Quote by Ranger01
Well even if you play bigger venues they will mic your amp. You dont need a stack.


True, BUT... They sound better and look cooler too.

Last edited by zachman5150 at Jan 16, 2009,
#18
Well sounding BETTER is a personal choice, as is portability and how much you and your buddies like standing upright for the rest of their lives.

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#19
Quote by Ranger01
Well sounding BETTER is a personal choice, as is portability and how much you and your buddies like standing upright for the rest of their lives.



Ya, I never understood guys whose personal choice wasn't to sound better, but I suppose you're right, they're out there.

I'm 42, and can lift a 4x12 by myself, no problem-- and have for the last 20+ years, besides... the only lifting is into and out of the transport vehicle. They have casters, and double as dollys, to move other stuff.

#20
Yea, well atleast here in MN most of the clubs require going up or down flights of stairs. Also most ppl dont know how to properly lift a cab, and get hurt.

And as for sounding "better" well, idk how an amp with 4 speakers can sound better than the same amp with two speakers at moderate volumes (high volumes I can understand due to speaker breakup).
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#21
Quote by Ranger01
Yea, well atleast here in MN most of the clubs require going up or down flights of stairs. Also most ppl dont know how to properly lift a cab, and get hurt.


I have several rigs-- and when I do gigs that have stairs, I take smaller gear, but am under no illusion that it sounds as good, not meaning that the smaller gear sounds bad-though.

Quote by Ranger01
And as for sounding "better" well, idk how an amp with 4 speakers can sound better than the same amp with two speakers at moderate volumes (high volumes I can understand due to speaker breakup).


Ya, there are lots of guys like you who don't understand... It is rather common. You're not alone. BUT, it doesn't change anything... Heck there are guys with good gear and crap tone, because they don't know how to operate their gear, VERY common, as well-- though a different topic.

They do, sound better.

I just proved this today as a matter of fact, with a friend while showing him the difference with a Marshall JVM combo, then plugged it into a 70's Marshall 4x12. HUGE difference at the same volume.
Last edited by zachman5150 at Jan 16, 2009,
#22
well as for that you gotta think of what type of speakers are in the respective units, older speakers (even if the same type as new ones) will sound different (better?).

Discussions of this type are fun.
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#23
I prefer to have at LEAST 2 speakers when playing with a drummer. 4 is fun, not as necessary as 2 (IMO).

That's just me
Then there's this band called Slice The Cake...

Bunch of faggots putting random riffs together and calling it "progressive" deathcore.
Stupid name.
Probably picked "for teh lulz"

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#24
Quote by Ranger01
well as for that you gotta think of what type of speakers are in the respective units, older speakers (even if the same type as new ones) will sound different (better?).

Discussions of this type are fun.


I agree, these types of discussions are fun. The difference with me is-- it isn't theory based. My conclusions are based on practical reality and experience. BIG difference to mere speculation and supposition.

It would be like someone from the past arguing about the world being flat. They can be sincere in their belief, and yet they would still be sincerely wrong wouldn't they? (Rhetorical)

Quote by Shinozoku
I prefer to have at LEAST 2 speakers when playing with a drummer. 4 is fun, not as necessary as 2 (IMO).

That's just me


Agree... NEED, is not the reason, it's preference. I prefer to sound better, if the gig pays enough to merit the gear and the logistics allow it, I'll take a bigger rig, if not I will use a smaller rig.



IF A big show merits it, a BIG rig is also a possibility

Last edited by zachman5150 at Jan 16, 2009,
#25
Quote by Ranger01
Yea, well atleast here in MN most of the clubs require going up or down flights of stairs. Also most ppl dont know how to properly lift a cab, and get hurt.

And as for sounding "better" well, idk how an amp with 4 speakers can sound better than the same amp with two speakers at moderate volumes (high volumes I can understand due to speaker breakup).


instead of just saying that they're better and I've known it like this guy over here, I'll tell you why stacks typically sound better.

The bigger the enclsoing holding the speaker, the better the bass response.

This is hwy you see those 8x10 or 8x12 cabinets for bass.

Modern Metal is very very bassy, so the stack does in fact make it sound better IF THAT IS THE TONE YOU ARE GOING FOR.

It is all personal preference, but stacks are not just for the e-peen.

Not to mention, if I ran 4 completely different types of speakers to get my tone, it would not be attainable with a 112 combo amp. Even just two types of speakers requires at least a aquarter stack.

Cheers,
Mike
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#26
Quote by CrushedCan
instead of just saying that they're better and I've known it like this guy over here, I'll tell you why stacks typically sound better.

The bigger the enclsoing holding the speaker, the better the bass response.

This is hwy you see those 8x10 or 8x12 cabinets for bass.

Modern Metal is very very bassy, so the stack does in fact make it sound better IF THAT IS THE TONE YOU ARE GOING FOR.

It is all personal preference, but stacks are not just for the e-peen.

Not to mention, if I ran 4 completely different types of speakers to get my tone, it would not be attainable with a 112 combo amp. Even just two types of speakers requires at least a aquarter stack.

Cheers,
Mike


GREAT Point!!!

Not just the bass response but also the fact that you can hear yourself on the stage BETTER, since you're physically pushing more air.
Last edited by zachman5150 at Jan 16, 2009,
#27
yea, Ive had plenty of experience with different myself. Unless your playing at the max volume of an amplifier having those extra speakers wont make a difference. The big variable that throws a monkey wrench into that is the type of speakers used, and the airflow of the cabinet...

Some people like the tight sound of a combo amp with closed back, some like the looser sound of an open back. Some people like the sound of a separate closed back cabinet over the former 2 options, and yet still some ppl like the sound of an open back cabinet... Its all in the ear of the listener.

Altho I will point out that I said if the OP wants it, he can get a separate cab.

As for rig size, I will point out David Gilmour (my tonal reference point)
When he plays an arena he has 4 amps and 8 4 x 12 cabs (not to mention the leslies/ doppolas/ etc), but when he plays a smaller gig (Royal Albert Hall) he effectivly uses 1 amp and 2 4x12 cabs (he does technically use 2 amps but one is for a completely separate system), and he Mic's the cabs. Once you enter the relm of multiple cabs you also enter the relm of wether to mic what you have to be louder or wether to get more cabs and maby another amp or 2.
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Last edited by Ranger01 at Jan 16, 2009,
#28
Omfg.

All depends on speaker efficiency. More highly efficient speakers MIGHT make it louder...

Unless you are running in stereo with two amps, there really is no reason to have more than one cab.

Higher gain things can use less speakers and still sound pretty close to the same.

Who said a combo can't have more than one speaker?

Stacks with multiple cabs generally have the same dB as it would with just one cab. More speakers means louder volumes without speaker breakup or coil stress.


A Peavey 112 should be MORE than enough. I can gig with a 3 Watt Blackheart Little Giant, you can gig with that.
Last edited by AcousticLesPaul at Jan 16, 2009,
#29
Quote by Ranger01
yea, Ive had plenty of experience with different myself. Unless your playing at the max volume of an amplifier having those extra speakers wont make a difference.


BS

Here is a clip of my 180 Watt Mesa/Boogie MKIII Coliseum at tv volumes, and yes I've played the same amp with the EXACT same speaker in a small 1x12 cab, and it doesn't sound as good, or as big even though it's soft, as it does through my w/d/w rig w/ 3 Marshall 4x12 cabs.

Clip

Quote by AcousticLesPaul
Omfg.


Stacks with multiple cabs generally have the same dB as it would with just one cab. More speakers means louder volumes without speaker breakup or coil stress.


WRONG
Last edited by zachman5150 at Jan 16, 2009,
#30
Quote by zachman5150
BS

Here is a clip of my 180 Watt Mesa/Boogie MKIII Coliseum at tv volumes, and yes I've played the same amp with the EXACT same speaker in a small 1x12 cab, and it doesn't sound as good, or as big even though it's soft, as it does through my w/d/w rig w/ 3 Marshall 4x12 cabs.

Clip


Lmao.

Rawk star!

You are playing one through a open back and one in closed, eh? Makes a big difference.

A stack is THE SAME EXACT DAMN THING AS A COMBO!

A COMBO HAS THE HEAD OF THE AMP AND THE CAB BUILT INTO ONE.

PEOPLE BUY STACKS SO THEY CAN SWITCH OUT THE CABS WITH OTHER HEADS THEY OWN.

THEY ALSO BUY STACKS BECAUSE THEY CAN CHANGE THE SPEAKERS/ADD EASIER

PEOPLE BUY AMPS BECAUSE THEY LIKE ONES THAT SOUND GOOD. STACKS MAKE LITTLE TO NO DIFFERENCE! /rant


Omfg.

Ever heard of the impendence of a cabinet? Running it through parallel means that the sound dB ISNT INCREASED.
Last edited by AcousticLesPaul at Jan 16, 2009,
#31
Quote by zachman5150
BS

Here is a clip of my 180 Watt Mesa/Boogie MKIII Coliseum at tv volumes, and yes I've played the same amp with the EXACT same speaker in a small 1x12 cab, and it doesn't sound as good, or as big even though it's soft, as it does through my w/d/w rig w/ 3 Marshall 4x12 cabs.

Clip

No duh! your running a 180 Watt amp!
That by its self requires 4 speakers to handle that wattage (Or 2 90 Watt Speakers or 3 60 Watt Speakers)

when your talking about the speakers being able to handle the wattage it goes like this:
180 watts + 4x45 watt speakers = +/- 50 watts + 1x 50 watt speaker (no Im not talking about loudness or output here)

You cant expect to send 180 watts of power through a speaker that can only handle 50 watts and expect it to sound good.
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Last edited by Ranger01 at Jan 16, 2009,
#32
Quote by AcousticLesPaul


You are playing one through a open back and one in closed, eh?


I was??? Tell me more about what I did. I can't wait... This will be hilarious. Hint you're already wrong

Quote by AcousticLesPaul
A stack is THE SAME EXACT DAMN THING AS A COMBO!

A COMBO HAS THE HEAD OF THE AMP AND THE CAB BUILT INTO ONE.


Really??? Tell me more about the 8x12 combos you're using for guitar. Stack = head + 2 4x12 cabs

Quote by AcousticLesPaul
PEOPLE BUY STACKS SO THEY CAN SWITCH OUT THE CABS WITH OTHER HEADS THEY OWN, OR BECAUSE THEY LIKE THE IMPOSING LOOK.


That's not why I do

Quote by AcousticLesPaul
STACKS MAKE LITTLE TO NO DIFFERENCE! /rant

Omfg.


MORON

Quote by AcousticLesPaul
Ever heard of the impendence of a cabinet? Running it through parallel means that the sound dB ISNT INCREASED.


Yes, I have a degree in Electronic Engineering, and have likely built more rigs than you've ever seen.
#33
No arguing with you I guess. You're set in stone. Not changing.


Please explain why more than 80% of musicians just use miked versions of their favorite amp? Kthx
#34
Quote by Ranger01
No duh! your running a 180 Watt amp!
That by its self requires 4 speakers to handle that wattage (Or 2 90 Watt Speakers or 3 60 Watt Speakers)


NOT when you are running it a whisper volumes.

Quote by Ranger01
when your talking about the speakers being able to handle the wattage it goes like this:
180 watts + 4x45 watt speakers = +/- 50 watts + 1x 50 watt speaker (no Im not talking about loudness or output here)

You cant expect to send 180 watts of power through a speaker that can only handle 50 watts and expect it to sound good.


I wasn't playing on 10.

Think about it, you may have a 180 Watt output capacity but if you are pushing max power, and are only running about 2 watts, because your master volume is less than 1.
#35
Quote by zachman5150
NOT when you are running it a whisper volumes.


I wasn't playing on 10.

Think about it, you may have a 180 Watt output capacity but if you are pushing max power, and are only running about 2 watts, because your master volume is less than 1.

Were you running it at whisper volumes out of the big cab? Amps sound different when at their lowest when compaired to their normal/ upper range.


Also you have to factor in what the cab is made of, the speaker set up, etc etc. You also enter the realm of sound dynamics, acoustic properties of the cab, etc.


As the saying goes "TONE IS SUBJECTIVE"! You like one sound, I like another, SRV liked another, Gilmour likes another, Brian Setzer likes another, Kirk Hammett likes another, Steve Vai likes another, etc etc etc etc etc
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Last edited by Ranger01 at Jan 16, 2009,
#36
Quote by AcousticLesPaul
No arguing with you I guess. You're set in stone. Not changing.


Please explain why more than 80% of musicians just use miked versions of their favorite amp? Kthx


I mic my stuff too. It's so the audience can hear what is going on, without having to crank the stage volume to ridiculous levels, or to record the performance or BOTH.

Quote by Ranger01
As the saying goes "TONE IS SUBJECTIVE"! You like one sound, I like another, SRV liked another, Gilmour likes another, Brian Setzer likes another, Kirk Hammett likes another, Steve Vai likes another, etc etc etc etc etc



Ya, that's why I built the rig I did: A multi-amp switching W/D/W rig... So I can get whatever tones I want, or need with the ability to control it all in real time, when doing session work, or live.

Sometimes when doing session work, or sideman work you have to dial in a tone that the artist, engineer or producer wants-- rather than the one you may prefer. Options... That's why I have all the tools required to dial in whatever I want.







Reality NOT theory
Last edited by zachman5150 at Jan 16, 2009,
#37
Quote by zachman5150
I mic my stuff too. It's so the audience can hear what is going on, without having to crank the stage volume to ridiculous levels, or to record the performance or BOTH.


If your using a mike, then why do you need 2 4x12 cabs? Let your sound guy do the work... Me? I love my Blackheart Little Giant Head paired with a Avatar Red Fang Cab. I also really like my Twin Reverb combo. Two completely different amps. Both sound incredible.
Last edited by AcousticLesPaul at Jan 16, 2009,
#38
Man, that rig is IMPRESSIVE I must admit, but if somone wanted the tone from a small 5w Class A combo, you wouldnt be able to replicate the sound of it (even if you had a 5w Class A head). The cab (even on a combo) makes the sound what it is.
'11 Gibson LP Jr.
'07 Gretsch 5120
'69 Tele
'10 Godin 5th Ave. Kingpin
'03 Blueridge Dreadnought
'02 Custom Martin D-28
Premier Twin-8
Fender Hot Rod Dlx
Boss SD-1
#39
Quote by Ranger01
Were you running it at whisper volumes out of the big cab? Amps sound different when at their lowest when compaired to their normal/ upper range.


Yes, I was runing 3 Marshall 4x12 cabs w/ Celestion G12H30 speakers at very very low volume... and I am aware of what my amps sound like loud and soft and how they react with the rest of my system. I've had that particular amp since 1986 when I had it Custom made by Boogie (#13 of approximately 200).


Quote by Ranger01
Also you have to factor in what the cab is made of, the speaker set up, etc etc. You also enter the realm of sound dynamics, acoustic properties of the cab, etc.


I am aware of these phenomenon/issues/considerations, and how and why they occur, and how to maximize the result I am going for. The cabinets are made of Baltic Birch.

Quote by Ranger01
As the saying goes "TONE IS SUBJECTIVE"! You like one sound, I like another, SRV liked another, Gilmour likes another, Brian Setzer likes another, Kirk Hammett likes another, Steve Vai likes another, etc etc etc etc etc


I like lots of different tones, hence my rigs and the versatility they provide.
#40
Quote by Ranger01
Man, that rig is IMPRESSIVE I must admit, but if somone wanted the tone from a small 5w Class A combo, you wouldnt be able to replicate the sound of it (even if you had a 5w Class A head). The cab (even on a combo) makes the sound what it is.


I like combos too. AND I use them when it is the sound I am going for:

Twins, Bandmasters, Super Reverbs, Princetons, Champs etc... Vox AC30's, Mesa/Boogie MKIII's, MKIV's, there's more but I don't feel like typing all night

Last edited by zachman5150 at Jan 16, 2009,
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