#1
What is the difference between Plain top and Plus top.
Quote by chip46
"I'm discontinuing production on the Timmy now as well. It might come back into production at some point down the road, but probably not because people will just clone it anyway cause they're stupid jerk face doo doo heads. -Paul C."
#2
Just purely looks I believe
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#3
Plain = normal looking maple top
Plus = flamed maple top

Aesthetics.

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#4
I though the plus tops were rounded at the front, like all Les Pauls, and the plain tops were flat. So the Plus tops are faded, and the Plain tops aren't?
Quote by chip46
"I'm discontinuing production on the Timmy now as well. It might come back into production at some point down the road, but probably not because people will just clone it anyway cause they're stupid jerk face doo doo heads. -Paul C."
#6
Here's your plain top;

http://www.sweetwater.com/guitargallery/electric/all/s08101511438/

And here's your plus top;

http://www.sweetwater.com/guitargallery/electric/all/s0806121819/

On a side note, if you end up getting that plus top, I will hate you and demand pics; that is some of the best-looking flamed maple I've ever seen.
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#7
Quote by Lethal Dosage
Just purely looks I believe
Not always true. Flame maple ('plus' tops) is a slightly denser wood; it will weigh slightly more and sound ever so slightly brighter than plain maple.

Generally when it's only being used as a veneer top on lower-end guitars the difference isn't enough to notice, but if the maple is a core part of the construction (like some guitars have all-maple necks) then it makes a difference, and on higher-end guitars where they tend to use better quality examples of each wood and will make the entire cap out of the wood rather than just a veneer, you can definitely tell the difference then too.
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#8
Ok, I understand, Necrosis, it may be one of my choices, as my local Guitar Center has a few. Are all Epiphone pickups muddy? And if so, how much does it cost to have someone solder in a new one?
Quote by chip46
"I'm discontinuing production on the Timmy now as well. It might come back into production at some point down the road, but probably not because people will just clone it anyway cause they're stupid jerk face doo doo heads. -Paul C."
#9
Quote by lespaul#1
Ok, I understand, Necrosis, it may be one of my choices, as my local Guitar Center has a few. Are all Epiphone pickups muddy? And if so, how much does it cost to have someone solder in a new one?


unfortunately every epi i have tried had muddy pups, except for the ones without epiphone pickups obviously.
Soldering a new pickup in isnt that complicated, so you could probably be able to do it yourself and save money, and have fun with modding ur guitar.
of course you'd need to buy a soldering gun if you dont already have one...
and the price i believe matters on whos doin it, some do it for 20 if there friends with you, others might do it for 40, it depends really
#10
I could get my dad to do it, he's much better with tools than me.
Quote by chip46
"I'm discontinuing production on the Timmy now as well. It might come back into production at some point down the road, but probably not because people will just clone it anyway cause they're stupid jerk face doo doo heads. -Paul C."
#11
Quote by necrosis1193
On a side note, if you end up getting that plus top, I will hate you and demand pics; that is some of the best-looking flamed maple I've ever seen.


Really? I've seen way nicer than that, even on Epis.
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#12
Quote by MrFlibble
Not always true. Flame maple ('plus' tops) is a slightly denser wood; it will weigh slightly more and sound ever so slightly brighter than plain maple.

Generally when it's only being used as a veneer top on lower-end guitars the difference isn't enough to notice, but if the maple is a core part of the construction (like some guitars have all-maple necks) then it makes a difference, and on higher-end guitars where they tend to use better quality examples of each wood and will make the entire cap out of the wood rather than just a veneer, you can definitely tell the difference then too.


i thought it was the opposite? that flamed was slightly warmer as it's less hard? that's what warmoth suggests, anyway, on its "woods descriptions" page...

agreed that it's not solely looks, though. it's probably pretty subtle, but if you have ears like a hawk you could probably notice it...
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
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#13
Quote by mmolteratx
Really? I've seen way nicer than that, even on Epis.


Well, what do you consider beautiful in maple tops?

Quote by Dave_Mc
i thought it was the opposite? that flamed was slightly warmer as it's less hard? that's what warmoth suggests, anyway, on its "woods descriptions" page...


Agreed, I was confused with that too...
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#14
Well, what do you consider beautiful in maple tops?QUOTE]

They're all around the same price, the PRS ones cheaper, the Epi more expensive.

This for Quilted.


These for Flamed.



And this one costs double the Epi but it kicks ass.


EDIT: However, you're definition may be different, mine is extremely ostentatious highly figured woods. lol
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Last edited by mmolteratx at Jan 17, 2009,
#15
XD Well, I do agree, though I also like more subtle stuff. Frankly, in all honesty though, I find the Les Paul Ultra ugly personally. Like you said though, different definitions.
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#16
Quote by necrosis1193
XD Well, I do agree, though I also like more subtle stuff. Frankly, in all honesty though, I find the Les Paul Ultra ugly personally. Like you said though, different definitions.


I used to find the quilt tops extremely unattractive but after a while I got used to it and now I want a quilt top guitar really bad, just not the Ultra since I didn't really like it when playing it a few weeks ago. I hate subtle quilts but subtle flame isn't that bad, that's what's on my LP and it looks great.
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#17
Aye, that explains it then. Just different taste I guess, part of why there are different finishes in the first place.
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#18
Quote by Dave_Mc
i thought it was the opposite? that flamed was slightly warmer as it's less hard? that's what warmoth suggests, anyway, on its "woods descriptions" page...

agreed that it's not solely looks, though. it's probably pretty subtle, but if you have ears like a hawk you could probably notice it...
Well, that's what I thought at first too. However when I went shopping for my Gibson and was going through the racks of plain maple topped '58s and flame maple '59s and '60s, every single one of the guitars with a flame maple top had a noticeably brighter tone. The kicker came when I tried one of the 50th Anniversary 1958 LPs, which oddly has a flame maple top, and that again was much brighter than the plain top '58s.

Of course there's always the simple chance that it was pure coincidence that of all the guitars I tried, all the ones with flame maple tops simply happened to have naturally brighter-sounding denser one-piece mahogany bodies and the 58s I tried were worse off, but I tried out so many I struggle to believe it was random luck/a coincidence.

I've also recently been switching a WIP Telecaster from a an all-maple neck and a flame maple neck with a rosewood fretboard, and despite the fact the rosewood should deepened the tone, the flame/rosewood neck sounds brighter.


Again, I didn't think this was the case originally, but in my personal experience this is how it's been, and I prefer to trust what I've actually tested out myself rather than what I've read off a website.


Also something to bear in mind is Warmoth only really uses flame maple as a veneer top. I don't know the really scientific biological aspects of wood densitiy and if there could be some weird reverse effect when using less, or maybe they use some odd species strain or they use a different glue for flame maple that dampens the sound or... well, who knows basically. It would surprise me if Warmoth got something so backwards but my personal experience has shown the opposite, so swings and roundabouts y'know.
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#19
^ yeah, i know what you're saying... i've been trying a few vigiers recently and i felt that the ones with the flame maple necks (and tops) were slightly mellower-sounding (mellower than one with a rosewood board and no maple top! though the pickups were scratchplate mounted in that one, so that could have affected it too). problem being, like you, that the ones i was trying them against had a slightly different spec too so it's hard to say for sure. and as you say, it could just be natural variation in the wood...

could have just been my imagination, too...

regarding those gibsons, the plain tops are a lot cheaper, aren't they? maybe they're using lower quality mahogany on them or something, too...

as usual, too many variables...

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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#20
I wouldn't want to go out on a limb and say they're using cheaper mahogany on the plain tops in case someone quotes me on it later down the line and I look like a complete eejit, but they do certainly cost much less for whatever reason. The 1958 Reissue costs £330 less than a 1959 Reissue, and the only difference spec-wise should be the '59 uses a flame maple top and the '58 uses a plain maple top.

One thing that has just struck me as I type this is that the brighest-sounding of all the '59s, which I eventually bought, appears to be a one-piece body. I know the Custom Shop uses a mix of two-piece and one-piece bodies almost randomly depending on what wood they have within arm's reach. It could perhaps be that the plain tops I've tried had two-piece bodies which will sound darker while the flame tops all happened to have one-pieces that should be brighter. I can't say I even thought of checking that at the time (bad Flibble!).


But yeah, there's so many variations... this is why I always say people need to stop asking questions and just go out and play these guitars for themselves because no matter what you read online, whatever you play in person tends to come out the complete opposite.
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#21
^ yeah, exactly. you can always go deeper- most of the advice we give around here is to newer players, or intermediate players, where, on the law of averages, a mahogany set-neck guitar is going to sound warmer than an alder with bolt-on maple neck... mainly because some rule-of-thumb information is better than none at all- but there are variations between guitars of the same wood etc. etc. too.

i thought there was like a £1000 difference between the plain top and the flamed version? maybe i'm thinking of a different model, though, i'm not too well up on the CS models (though a couple of local shops have recently come in, and i'm thinking of whether i should ask to try them... always the chance they'll tell you to eff off... ).

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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#22
I don't look at Custom Shop prices online or maybe there was more of a price difference before/after I bought mine, but when I was shopping around the price difference between plain top 58s and flame top 59s was exactly £330 for the finish I have, Iced Tea. I think for a Washed Cherry finish the difference was another £10.

Of course maybe you've seen older versions, or there have been a few limited editions like the 50th Anniversary ones that have come out that cost much more.
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Last edited by MrFlibble at Jan 18, 2009,
#23
yeah, that's possible, i haven't been paying too close attention to their prices either...
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?