#1
Hey guys, I have a Schecter C-1 Classic with Bareknuckle Ceramic Painkiller pick-ups in it.
I hate them haha.
Nah but I've decided I'm 100% gonna change 'em, I HATE their bass responce, and really dislike just about everything else about them.

The only thing I can say about them is the sound quality is amazing. I have 2 other guitars, one fitted with SD Jb/59 and one fitted with Dimarzio evos. They sound like toys in comparison.

This guitar is used to play metal, I don't really need the versaility. The ability to produce a half decent clean tone would be pretty neat, but the main priority is to get an agressive tone.

I'm using a Bugera 333xl, for what it matters.

Any suggestions guys?
#2
Seymour Duncan Dimebuckers
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#3
or maybe invader SH-8


Sorry abou the double post
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#5
I was thinking about the EMG's actually maybe with an 18v mod. I sometimes doubt the quality of their tone though, to me they always have a somewhere digital tone to them.

Well, when I say digital I mean not natural.
#6
Quote by sdmf.1919
I was thinking about the EMG's actually maybe with an 18v mod. I sometimes doubt the quality of their tone though, to me they always have a somewhere digital tone to them.

Well, when I say digital I mean not natural.


this. 81/85 is prolly your best bet for aggressive stuff, but if not them definately go with some EMG's.
#8
How about Rockmonkey? Cord can custom wind the pickups to get as close as possible to the sound you want, and you get a 10% discount.
#9
Gnomieowns, 81/85 is Emg lol.

Dudey5691, if I had to aim for the tone of a well known guitarist, which I don't really like doing, it'd probably be something like Lamb of God's tone. I like to keep some mid in my tone, and not too over the top with gain.
#10
what do you not like about the painkillers? you say you don't like them, but that the sound quality is amazing- do you mean that they're nice pickups, just not suited to the stuff you play?
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#11
Quote by sdmf.1919

Dudey5691, if I had to aim for the tone of a well known guitarist, which I don't really like doing, it'd probably be something like Lamb of God's tone. I like to keep some mid in my tone, and not too over the top with gain.


I understand what you mean... I just need to know what level of warmth, gain, EQ shape, gritiness, cleanup, etc. you want out of your pickups.

For example, the Dimarzio Evolution and X2N similar output, but are completely different pickups tonally (Evo is warm, but punchy; X2N is aggressive and gainy).

I'd suggest the D Sonic, Tone Zone, or Breed... they've all got plenty of mids, warmth, and are good enough for metal (I believe the Tone Zone is more of a neck pickup, though).

Somebody else will probably be able to help more.
#12
Well, I feel that the Painkiller has too much mid, the bass responce is too overpowering and I dunno what it is about the treble aspect of them, theyre really kinda.. Twangy sounding. Not enough attack to them. The neck just sounds fairly bland in general.
Id like a pickup with slightly less mid, which still be quite alot:p and with more aggressive treble, and better balanced bass.
In a neck pick up, I always like the sound of the neck on a decent les paul. I only use the neck for cleans and some leads. But I like a nice creamy sounding pickup.
For the bridge an agressive tone is essential
#13
What I meant by sound quality, the Bkp has alot more clarity than other pickups I've tried. Theyre alot more responsive to your playing. Theyre also alot louder than my other guitars, but alot less compressed sounding, more open and natural tone.
They just generally blow the jb/evos away. Just isnt quite what I want tone wise.
#14
You probably just want a lower output pickup, some sort of PAF style of pickup. They often tend to have more clarity and more natural high end response. They don't hit the front end of your amp as hard but if you're already using a high gain amp, then that really matters very little. If you can afford bareknuckles, I take it you could probably afford WCRs as well (if you're in the USA) look at the Crossroads, Darkbursts, Godwoods and Fillmores. CR is your general run of the mill PAF style, Darkburst is a hot wound PAF, and Fillmore is something completely different, still a vintage style pickup but with a creamier tone and really warm mids, possibly too much mids for your tastes.

Fillmores
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=349730&content=songinfo&songID=6572910
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=349730&content=songinfo&songID=6572913

Crossroads
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=349730&content=songinfo&songID=6477007

Or these if you find the lows on the Crossoads too loose, they have a more scooped kind of voicing to my ears, and the highs are a little more grinding. They're called the Godwoods, but are a bit more expensive than the previous two. I think $315 a pair.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=349730&content=songinfo&songID=6477019


Though neither really shows off the pickups at high gain settings but are good representations of how the pickups are voiced.
Last edited by al112987 at Jan 19, 2009,
#15
Quote by dudey5691
I understand what you mean... I just need to know what level of warmth, gain, EQ shape, gritiness, cleanup, etc. you want out of your pickups.

For example, the Dimarzio Evolution and X2N similar output, but are completely different pickups tonally (Evo is warm, but punchy; X2N is aggressive and gainy).

I'd suggest the D Sonic, Tone Zone, or Breed... they've all got plenty of mids, warmth, and are good enough for metal (I believe the Tone Zone is more of a neck pickup, though).

Somebody else will probably be able to help more.

The Tone Zone is almost always used as a bridge pickup, thats what it was made for. Although it does sound good in the neck.
#16
Nah I dont need lower output, if anything more would be closer to the solution.
My mate has active duncans in a strat, theyre higher output than my Bkp, theyre slightly closer to the sound Im after
#17
That's different, they're active pickups and the active preamp alters the tone, if you're talking about passive pickups, you want lower output for more clarity and high end. They're more open sounding and have a much wider frequency response.

The guitarist from Lamb of God uses Seymour Duncan '59s in both neck and bridge of his guitars.

The only benefit I can really see to higher output pickups based on what you've said is more gain, but I could not honestly see gain being a problem given the amp that you're using.
#18
Quote by sdmf.1919
Well, I feel that the Painkiller has too much mid, the bass responce is too overpowering and I dunno what it is about the treble aspect of them, theyre really kinda.. Twangy sounding. Not enough attack to them. The neck just sounds fairly bland in general.
Id like a pickup with slightly less mid, which still be quite alot:p and with more aggressive treble, and better balanced bass.
In a neck pick up, I always like the sound of the neck on a decent les paul. I only use the neck for cleans and some leads. But I like a nice creamy sounding pickup.
For the bridge an agressive tone is essential



Sounds like my dirty twangbanger would be about right for you. It's a solid high end, tight bass, and a graveling midrange that is slightly scooped due to the neodymium magnets. It doesn't really clean up but it sounds good through a clean amp and can handle anything from classic rock to metal.
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#19
No thats true. But would it not make sense to be looking at pickups aimed at the high gain audience as you would assume they would have desirable attributes for the tone I want?
Similarly, pickups aimed at a lower gain market should be designed to sound best at lower gain?
#20
As much as I hate emg's now it might be your thing. Passives give you a better warmth and low end but if that's not your thing you might like emg's but they sound much more sterile.

The pickups in your guitar are better than you probably realize and you probably want to try out a guitar with emg's before you do this. Because you might end up not liking it like you thought.

If I was you I'd keep those pickups and change the settings on your amp. So many people get an amp and set it the same way they've been setting their amps for years. I guarantee I could get that guitar sounding right through that amp.

Run a boost in front of your 333xl and cut out some low end if you get to much. Knock down your presence if you have it to high. Don't use a **** load of gain but just enough.
#21
I would highly recommend the nailbomb in the bridge position for a aggression serouisly great for metal
#22
Quote by sdmf.1919
No thats true. But would it not make sense to be looking at pickups aimed at the high gain audience as you would assume they would have desirable attributes for the tone I want?
Similarly, pickups aimed at a lower gain market should be designed to sound best at lower gain?


Not really.

If you want EMGs, then that is fine, but you can't compare them to the same standard that you would for a passive pickup. For your conventional passive pickup, if you take one design, the more you overwind it, the higher the output, the higher the DC resistance, and you get more low end emphasis and more subdued highsInstead of thinking about who is buying what pickup, think about how pickups work, and how you want them to shape your sound.

It's not as if lower gain pickups are designed to sound best at lower gain, it's just that blues and classic rock enthusiasts like lower output pickups for their wide frequency response and their open, airy tone that you don't generally get out of high output pickups. Plus, there is already a precedent tone set by famous PAF users that every blues and classic rock player is chasing that no high output pickup will give you. It doesn't mean that low output pickups can't be used for high gain styles, nor does it mean that they can't handle high gain. High output pickups had their place in the 80s when people were still using single channel amps and wanted something to really push the front end of their amps, but with modern high gain amps, they're not really that necessary to get a lot of gain. Again, guy from Lamb of God uses two Seymour Duncan '59s. Enough said. Based on what you're asking for in terms of voicing, a lower output pickup may just be what you need.

CourduroyEW made a good suggestion about neodymium magnets, but I've never heard a set of neodymium based pickups in my life so I honestly haven't the slightest clue what they sound like.
#23
The EMG Zakk Wylde signature set produces amazing cleans but it has all the dirty metal sounds that you would expect from EMG active pickups.

http://www.emginc.com/displayproducts.asp?section=Guitar&categoryid=6&catalogid=3

Check there for a clean/dirty sound demo.
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Last edited by random_B-RAD at Jan 19, 2009,
#24
Quote by random_B-RAD
The EMG Zakk Wylde signature set produces amazing cleans but it has all the dirty metal sounds that you would expect from EMG active pickups.


What in the world constitutes as "amazing cleans" in your opinion?
#25
Quote by sdmf.1919
No thats true. But would it not make sense to be looking at pickups aimed at the high gain audience as you would assume they would have desirable attributes for the tone I want?
Similarly, pickups aimed at a lower gain market should be designed to sound best at lower gain?


You would like to think so wouldn't you... But no.

More windings on a pickup give you mushy bass and filter off your treble. That is just they way things work. By using stronger magnets you can tighten back up the bass and regain some treble but then you run into another problem. Alnico magnets are stronger than ceramic magnets but alnico is conductive and creates eddy currents which lower output and filter off treble. So then you are back to ceramic again which are not as strong but are also not conductive so you get more output from them and a more aggressive tone. So then you start making your ceramic magnet bigger in effort to get that high end back. They'll give you more output and high end but what if it's not enough. Active??? Neodymium perhaps?

That is what is going through the mind of a pickup designer when we make high output pickups. To get the output it compresses the tone, gives you more midrange, floppy bass, and less high end. We can play with other factors but they can only do so much and ultimately the high output pickups compromise tone in order to be high output. The only reason high output pickups are thought to be better for heavy music is because they are more capable of over driving the amp. Again, it has nothing to do with there tone.

Low output pickups are much more balanced which means that with a simple EQ pedal and a compressor can get great highs, tight lows, and scooped mids, or you can get a huge midrange hump. Whatever you want. With high output pickups, once the high end is compressed out of the signal then it's gone. An amp amplify a signal that isn't there.
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Last edited by CorduroyEW at Jan 19, 2009,
#26
Quote by sdmf.1919
What I meant by sound quality, the Bkp has alot more clarity than other pickups I've tried. Theyre alot more responsive to your playing. Theyre also alot louder than my other guitars, but alot less compressed sounding, more open and natural tone.
They just generally blow the jb/evos away. Just isnt quite what I want tone wise.


yeah. it just sounds to me like you bought the wrong BKPs for the tones you want. did you get advice from BKP and/or the forum before you bought them? to me (and i should add that i don't know too much about BKPs, having only tried a couple), what you've described sounds like a miracle man in the bridge combined with something like a mule in the neck, but obviously you'd be well advised to contact BKP for some better advice than that.

other companies would be worth a look too- bulldog, wcr which andrew mentioned, cordy's rockmonkey pickups etc. etc. it might just be that BKP are the only boutique-quality pickup which you've tried (i'm in the same boat).

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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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